A Windows XP help forum. PCbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PCbanter forum » Microsoft Windows XP » Windows XP Help and Support
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old September 13th 07, 11:03 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Unknown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,007
Default Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent

This is getting to be as bad as all those worried about all the electrons
being wasted by double posting.
"Curt Christianson" wrote in message
...
The sky is falling!!

--

Curt

Windows Support Center
www.aumha.org
Practically Nerded,...
http://dundats.mvps.org/Index.htm

"Kevin Brunt (Fat Baztard)" wrote in message
...
|
| This is just the pratice run. Next time MS will also try disabling any
| systems it thinks is using pirated software!! Watch the space!!!




Ads
  #17  
Old September 13th 07, 11:45 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Noozer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 288
Default Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent

"Kevin Brunt (Fat Baztard)" wrote in message
...
|
| This is just the pratice run. Next time MS will also try disabling any
| systems it thinks is using pirated software!! Watch the space!!!


Actually, they already can.

One of the big "improvements" with Vista is that it gives Microsoft the
ability to disable hardware drivers and whole systems that it feels is not
appropriate for use.

In other words, they could detect that you have Alcohol 120% on your system
and shut you down.


  #18  
Old September 14th 07, 12:05 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Frank
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent

Adam Albright wrote:



Me anti Microsoft?


Totally!

Hardly as I've said many times I wouldn't be a
stockholder in a company I don't like.


Don't make me laugh!

I simply wish they would clean
up their act.


Start with yourself!

What I find fascinating is how fanboys automatically
stick their heads in the sand and just ignore all the failings in
Vista and the anti-customer stance Microsoft has had since say one.


Still can't get that one little in place (bad move!) upgrade install of
Vista business to run correctly, huh?
So blame MS for your stupidity and incompetence right?


As far as any EULA, they are like the fine print on insurance polices.
NOBODY reads them or for that matter could understand half the double
talk contained there in.

Especially a village idiot like you!
Frank
  #19  
Old September 14th 07, 12:06 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Adam Albright
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 237
Default Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:46:09 -0600, Bruce Chambers
wrote:

Adam Albright wrote:


As far as any EULA, they are like the fine print on insurance polices.
NOBODY reads them or for that matter could understand half the double
talk contained there in.



"Nobody?" What planet do you live on? I read every contract I'm asked
to sign. I seek legal advice for any portions I don't understand.


Sure right, next thing you'll try to tell us is you count the paper
clips in each box to make sure there's a 100 and of course your count
the issues on each roll of toilet paper to be sure there are a 1,000.

Don't you? Are you saying that the *everyone* is too stupid or too lazy to
look out for their own interests? And I though I had a dim view of the
general public.


I have a dim view of FANBODYS because they proved themselves to be
total idiots judging the crap they post to this goofy newsgroup. You
obviously are no exception to that rule.

Regardless, the signer's not having bothered to read a contract doesn't
make that contract any less binding.


Hey bub, trying to play attorney now? A EULA technically isn't a
contract and it's legal weight has yet to be tested in the courts.
Again you being just a moronic fanboy immediately accept whatever crap
Microsoft shovels your way as gospel.

Oh, and the Windows EULA is written at what I'd consider an 8th grade
(A 1960's era American public school 8th grade, that is; probably closer
to today's high school level, now. Nevertheless the average McDonalds
burger-flipper should have no trouble with it.) reading level. It's not
at all confusing to the functionally literate.


Oh please... a document can be written at a fourth grade level and
still be deliberately misleading, vague and contradictory.

  #20  
Old September 14th 07, 01:11 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent

Relax, It's Only An Updated Version Of Windows Update, All Other Files Were
Left Unchanged, Just FYI.

"Silicon neuron" wrote in message
...
http://windowssecrets.com/comp/070913/#story1

By Scott Dunn

Microsoft has begun patching files on Windows XP and Vista without users'
knowledge, even when the users have turned off auto-updates.

Many companies require testing of patches before they are widely
installed, and businesses in this situation are objecting to the stealth
patching.


Files changed with no notice to users

In recent days, Windows Update (WU) started altering files on users'
systems without displaying any dialog box to request permission. The only
files that have been reportedly altered to date are nine small executables
on XP and nine on Vista that are used by WU itself. Microsoft is patching
these files silently, even if auto-updates have been disabled on a
particular PC.

It's surprising that these files can be changed without the user's
knowledge. The Automatic Updates dialog box in the Control Panel can be
set to prevent updates from being installed automatically. However, with
Microsoft's latest stealth move, updates to the WU executables seem to be
installed regardless of the settings - without notifying users.

When users launch Windows Update, Microsoft's online service can check the
version of its executables on the PC and update them if necessary. What's
unusual is that people are reporting changes in these files although WU
wasn't authorized to install anything.

This isn't the first time Microsoft has pushed updates out to users who
prefer to test and install their updates manually. Not long ago, another
Windows component, svchost.exe, was causing problems with Windows Update,
as last reported on June 21 in the Windows Secrets Newsletter. In that
case, however, the Windows Update site notified users that updated
software had to be installed before the patching process could proceed.
This time, such a notice never appears.

For users who elect not to have updates installed automatically, the issue
of consent is crucial. Microsoft has apparently decided, however, that it
doesn't need permission to patch Windows Updates files, even if you've set
your preferences to require it.

Microsoft provides no tech information - yet

To make matters even stranger, a search on Microsoft's Web site reveals no
information at all on the stealth updates. Let's say you wished to
voluntarily download and install the new WU executable files when you
were, for example, reinstalling a system. You'd be hard-pressed to find
the updated files in order to download them. At this writing, you either
get a stealth install or nothing.

A few Web forums have already started to discuss the updated files, which
bear the version number 7.0.6000.381. The only explanation found at
Microsoft's site comes from a user identified as Dean-Dean on a Microsoft
Communities forum. In reply to a question, he states:

"Windows Update Software 7.0.6000.381 is an update to Windows Update
itself. It is an update for both Windows XP and Windows Vista. Unless the
update is installed, Windows Update won't work, at least in terms of
searching for further updates. Normal use of Windows Update, in other
words, is blocked until this update is installed."

Windows Secrets contributing editor Susan Bradley contacted Microsoft
Partner Support about the update and received this short reply:


"7.0.6000.381 is a consumer only release that addresses some specific
issues found after .374 was released. It will not be available via WSUS
[Windows Server Update Services]. A standalone installer and the redist
will be available soon, I will keep an eye on it and notify you when it is
available."

Unfortunately, this reply does not explain why the stealth patching began
with so little information provided to customers. Nor does it provide any
details on the "specific issues" that the update supposedly addresses.

System logs confirm stealth installs

In his forum post, Dean-Dean names several files that are changed on XP
and Vista. The patching process updates several Windows\System32
executables (with the extensions .exe, .dll, and .cpl) to version
7.0.6000.381, according to the post.

In Vista, the following files are updated:

1. wuapi.dll
2. wuapp.exe
3. wuauclt.exe
4. wuaueng.dll
5. wucltux.dll
6. wudriver.dll
7. wups.dll
8. wups2.dll
9. wuwebv.dll

In XP, the following files are updated:

1. cdm.dll
2. wuapi.dll
3. wuauclt.exe
4. wuaucpl.cpl
5. wuaueng.dll
6. wucltui.dll
7. wups.dll
8. wups2.dll
9. wuweb.dll

These files are by no means viruses, and Microsoft appears to have no
malicious intent in patching them. However, writing files to a user's PC
without notice (when auto-updating has been turned off) is behavior that's
usually associated with hacker Web sites. The question being raised in
discussion forums is, "Why is Microsoft operating in this way?"

How to check which version your PC has

If a system has been patched in the past few months, the nine executables
in Windows\System32 will either show an earlier version number,
7.0.6000.374, or the stealth patch: 7.0.6000.381. (The version numbers can
be seen by right-clicking a file and choosing Properties. In XP, click the
Version tab and then select File Version. In Vista, click the Details
tab.)

In addition, PCs that received the update will have new executables in
subfolders named 7.0.6000.381 under the following folders:

c:\Windows\System32\SoftwareDistribution\Setup\Ser viceStartup\wups.dll
c:\Windows\System32\SoftwareDistribution\Setup\Ser viceStartup\wups2.dll

Users can also verify whether patching occurred by checking Windows' Event
Log:

Step 1. In XP, click Start, Run.

Step 2. Type eventvwr.msc and press Enter.

Step 3. In the tree pane on the left, select System.

Step 4. The right pane displays events and several details about them.
Event types such as "Installation" are labeled in the Category column.
"Windows Update Agent" is the event typically listed in the Source column
for system patches.

On systems that were checked recently by Windows Secrets readers, the
Event Log shows two installation events on Aug. 24. The files were
stealth-updated in the early morning hours. (The time stamp will vary, of
course, on machines that received the patch on other dates.)

To investigate further, you can open the Event Log's properties for each
event. Normally, when a Windows update event occurs, the properties dialog
box shows an associated KB number, enabling you to find more information
at Microsoft's Web site. Mysteriously, no KB number is given for the WU
updates that began in August. The description merely reads, "Installation
Successful: Windows successfully installed the following update: Automatic
Updates."

No need to roll back the updated files

Again, it's important to note that there's nothing harmful about the
updated files themselves. There are no reports of software conflicts and
no reason to remove the files (which WU apparently needs in order to
access the latest patches). The only concern is the mechanism Microsoft is
using to perform its patching, and how this mechanism might be used by the
software giant in the future.

I'd like to thank reader Angus Scott-Fleming for his help in researching
this topic. He recommends that advanced Windows users monitor changes to
their systems' Registry settings via a free program by Olivier Lombart
called Tiny Watcher. Scott-Fleming will receive a gift certificate for a
book, CD, or DVD of his choice for sending in a comment we printed.

I'll report further on this story when I'm able to find more information
on the policies and techniques behind Windows Update's silent patches.
Send me your tips on this subject via the Windows Secrets contact page.

Scott Dunn is associate editor of the Windows Secrets Newsletter. He is
also a contributing editor of PC World Magazine, where he has written a
monthly column since 1992, and co-author of 101 Windows Tips & Tricks
(Peachpit) with Jesse Berst and Charles Bermant.

  #21  
Old September 14th 07, 01:46 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Frank
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent

Adam Albright wrote:



Hey bub, trying to play attorney now? A EULA technically isn't a
contract


You're the idiot! The EULA is an agreement...an agreement is a legally
binding contract.
How fukkin dumb are you mr genius?
Frank
  #22  
Old September 14th 07, 01:47 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Frank
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent

Noozer wrote:

In other words, they could detect that you have Alcohol 120% on your system
and shut you down.


Would that be like drunk driving! :-)
Frank
  #23  
Old September 14th 07, 02:00 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
HeyBub
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,258
Default Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent

Adam Albright wrote:

Sure right, next thing you'll try to tell us is you count the paper
clips in each box to make sure there's a 100 and of course your count
the issues on each roll of toilet paper to be sure there are a 1,000.


I used to do that. I bought a gross of condoms once, but there were only 143
in the box. When I complained to the pharmacist the next day, he gave me a
free one along with the apology: "I'm sorry we spoiled your evening."


  #24  
Old September 14th 07, 02:29 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Val
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 273
Default Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent

I don't read anything in the EULA portions quoted below that indicates MS
has any right to install updates when one has explicitly opted out of them.
Continuing on in section 7 the Vista EULA,

.. Windows Update Feature. You may connect new hardware to your device.
Your device may not have the drivers needed to communicate with that
hardware. If so, the update feature of the software can obtain the correct
driver from Microsoft and install it on your device. You can switch off
this update feature.

As a consumer, I would expect that if I do "...switch off this update
feature", I expect it to stay switched off. Period. No quibbling.

It's my computer.

Val


"Bruce Chambers" wrote in message
...
Silicon neuron wrote:


Microsoft has begun patching files on Windows XP and Vista without users'
knowledge, even when the users have turned off auto-updates.




Actually, this is *not* being done _without_ user consent. Just the
opposite. Every user of each operating systems has been given advance
notice that such things could happen, and has consented to it.

Read the Vista EULA. Section 7 makes it clear that this could happen:

================================================== ======================

7. INTERNET-BASED SERVICES. Microsoft provides Internet-based services
with the software. It may *change* or cancel them at any time.
a. Consent for Internet-Based Services. The software features
described below and in the Windows Vista Privacy Statement connect to
Microsoft or service provider computer systems over the Internet. *In
some cases, you will not receive a separate notice when they connect.*
You may switch off these features or not use them. For more information
about these features, see the Windows Vista Privacy Statement at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=20615. By using these features,
you consent to the transmission of this information. Microsoft does not
use the information to identify or contact you.

================================================== ======================
(Emphasis mine)

The WinXP EULA also made this clear:

================================================== ======================

Internet-Based Services Components. The SOFTWARE contains
components that enable and facilitate the use of certain
Internet-based services. You acknowledge and agree that
MS, Microsoft Corporation or their subsidiaries may
automatically check the version of the SOFTWARE and/or
its components that you are utilizing and may provide
upgrades or supplements to the SOFTWARE that may be
*automatically* downloaded to your COMPUTER.

================================================== ======================
(Again, emphasis mine)


Do I approve of this practice? Not really. I'd prefer to know about
each and every change as it happens, just on the off chance that, if a
problem occurs, I've better information on which to base my
troubleshooting. But I'm an exception; most people simply don't want to
know about technical details of how the OS is working.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell


  #25  
Old September 14th 07, 02:51 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 55
Default Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent

Val;
This is referring to the part that updates drivers and does not apply to
other updates.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
Windows Server System - Microsoft Update Services
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar


"Val" wrote in message
...
I don't read anything in the EULA portions quoted below that indicates MS
has any right to install updates when one has explicitly opted out of
them.
Continuing on in section 7 the Vista EULA,

. Windows Update Feature. You may connect new hardware to your device.
Your device may not have the drivers needed to communicate with that
hardware. If so, the update feature of the software can obtain the
correct
driver from Microsoft and install it on your device. You can switch off
this update feature.

As a consumer, I would expect that if I do "...switch off this update
feature", I expect it to stay switched off. Period. No quibbling.

It's my computer.

Val


  #26  
Old September 14th 07, 03:02 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Val
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 273
Default Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent

JJ,

It's the closest I see to anything refering to updates of the system files -
the other parts of Section 7 (sounds like a mysterious quasi-governmental
agency??) refer to various specific internet enabled features. My point is
that nothing I can find in the EULA (I just read the whole darn thing) seems
to state MS reserves the right to arbitrarily modify an end user's system.

Would you want Ford to just walk into your garage and start tinkering with
your car?

Val


"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message
...
Val;
This is referring to the part that updates drivers and does not apply to
other updates.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
Windows Server System - Microsoft Update Services
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar


"Val" wrote in message
...
I don't read anything in the EULA portions quoted below that indicates MS
has any right to install updates when one has explicitly opted out of
them.
Continuing on in section 7 the Vista EULA,

. Windows Update Feature. You may connect new hardware to your device.
Your device may not have the drivers needed to communicate with that
hardware. If so, the update feature of the software can obtain the
correct
driver from Microsoft and install it on your device. You can switch off
this update feature.

As a consumer, I would expect that if I do "...switch off this update
feature", I expect it to stay switched off. Period. No quibbling.

It's my computer.

Val



  #27  
Old September 14th 07, 03:32 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Adam Albright
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 237
Default Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:46:39 -0700, Frank wrote:

Adam Albright wrote:



Hey bub, trying to play attorney now? A EULA technically isn't a
contract


You're the idiot! The EULA is an agreement...an agreement is a legally
binding contract.


Explain to us how Microsoft KNOWS who clicked their mouse agreeing to
the EULA which is the ONLY so-called "proof" anyone agreed to the
terms of the license. Damn, Frank I know you're a real dim bulb, but
even you should see the fatal flaw in such half-ass reasoning and to
try to claim it becomes legally binding is laughable.

Worse, Microsoft doesn't provide any written version of the EULA in
the packaging Vista comes in and the only way you get to see it is if
you begin the install process THEN nobody that sold Vista to you will
take it back claiming it is "opened" software. Sounds like a catch 22
to me.

Of course you being nothing but a moronic fanboy you probably wait on
your porch every evening hoping you see a pig fly past. Lots of luck
with that.

  #28  
Old September 14th 07, 03:33 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Adam Albright
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 237
Default Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:47:25 -0700, Frank wrote:

Noozer wrote:

In other words, they could detect that you have Alcohol 120% on your system
and shut you down.


Would that be like drunk driving! :-)
Frank



You being a drunk would know.

  #29  
Old September 14th 07, 03:53 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 55
Default Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent

Paragraph 7 covers it.
As for "quasi-governmental agency", I don't see that at all.
Consult an attorney specializing in software licensing if a definitive
answer is needed.
It is highly anyone responding here qualifies.

"Would you want Ford to just walk into your garage..."
Not relevant since there is no agreement that permits Ford to do that in my
garage.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
Windows Server System - Microsoft Update Services
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar


"Val" wrote in message
...
JJ,

It's the closest I see to anything refering to updates of the system
files -
the other parts of Section 7 (sounds like a mysterious quasi-governmental
agency??) refer to various specific internet enabled features. My point
is
that nothing I can find in the EULA (I just read the whole darn thing)
seems
to state MS reserves the right to arbitrarily modify an end user's system.

Would you want Ford to just walk into your garage and start tinkering with
your car?

Val


  #30  
Old September 14th 07, 04:53 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Steve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent

Tim Slattery wrote:
Bruce Chambers wrote:
"Nobody?" What planet do you live on? I read every contract I'm asked
to sign. I seek legal advice for any portions I don't understand. Don't
you? Are you saying that the *everyone* is too stupid or too lazy to
look out for their own interests? And I though I had a dim view of the
general public.


Do you read every single EULA you run into? Do you have time to do
anything else?


And I guess he's recommending that anyone who doesn't understand each
and every word of the EULA should seek legal advice before purchasing
the software. Yeah, that'd work.


--

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

....Philip K. Dick
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off






All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PCbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.