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#46
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Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
On 2013-12-05, Juan Wei wrote:
Jim has written on 12/4/2013 11:40 PM: On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 19:22:32 -0700, Ken Springer wrote: Winston and xfile, This link was posted in a Mozilla newsgroup: http://www.theage.com.au/digital-lif...203-2yo3r.html I have no idea if the site is reliable, but the date for the page is 12/3/13. I for one have no trouble at all with Windows 8.1. The way I have it set up it isn't much different than Windows 7. I don't use the Metro stuff so I uninstalled all the apps, also I have Start8 and boot directly to the desktop. I could probably get by without Start8 and still do fine with Windows 8.1. I am amused when I see the posts from people who are downgrading to Windows. A few tweaks makes Win 8.1 the same as Win 7 so why downgrade? I really don't understand why this OS is disliked by so many people. IMHO, Windows 8.1 is equal or better than Windows 7. Amen. The msft drivers for usb3 are scr$ed up. msft coopted having msft usb3 drivers as part of the win8.x so that mfg are not providing any usb3 drivers for their hardware. E.g. the 1st time I had win8 on the desktop, win8 kept interfering with mass copying using either robocopy or richcopy; the files were audio files & the copying wasn't successful as autoplay stopped all processing even when autoplay was set to be disabled for ALL drives. Then win8 started to claim that the usb3 hdd had to be "initialized" before it can be used even tho about 700+ gb were on the drive. After reverting to win7, I did more backups from my nas to the usb3 hdd. However, when 8.1 became available, I stupidly thought m$ fixed the usb3 problems that have been reported. A ms person just claimed that the drivers are "perfect", it is just the hardware mfg doing an incorrect implementation (sounds like jobs & apple). When I needed to do some more backups, win8.1 wanted to "initialize" the usb3 hdd even tho it had been reformatted by win7 since it was claimed by some that the ntfs had been changed some. Anyway, back to win7 which does work unlike win8.x; don't even think I will try win8.2 if it appears in 2014. I have no intention of buying another usb3 hdd just for win8.x. |
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#47
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Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
generic name wrote:
On 2013-12-05, Juan Wei wrote: Jim has written on 12/4/2013 11:40 PM: On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 19:22:32 -0700, Ken Springer wrote: Winston and xfile, This link was posted in a Mozilla newsgroup: http://www.theage.com.au/digital-lif...203-2yo3r.html I have no idea if the site is reliable, but the date for the page is 12/3/13. I for one have no trouble at all with Windows 8.1. The way I have it set up it isn't much different than Windows 7. I don't use the Metro stuff so I uninstalled all the apps, also I have Start8 and boot directly to the desktop. I could probably get by without Start8 and still do fine with Windows 8.1. I am amused when I see the posts from people who are downgrading to Windows. A few tweaks makes Win 8.1 the same as Win 7 so why downgrade? I really don't understand why this OS is disliked by so many people. IMHO, Windows 8.1 is equal or better than Windows 7. Amen. The msft drivers for usb3 are scr$ed up. msft coopted having msft usb3 drivers as part of the win8.x so that mfg are not providing any usb3 drivers for their hardware. E.g. the 1st time I had win8 on the desktop, win8 kept interfering with mass copying using either robocopy or richcopy; the files were audio files & the copying wasn't successful as autoplay stopped all processing even when autoplay was set to be disabled for ALL drives. Then win8 started to claim that the usb3 hdd had to be "initialized" before it can be used even tho about 700+ gb were on the drive. After reverting to win7, I did more backups from my nas to the usb3 hdd. However, when 8.1 became available, I stupidly thought m$ fixed the usb3 problems that have been reported. A ms person just claimed that the drivers are "perfect", it is just the hardware mfg doing an incorrect implementation (sounds like jobs & apple). When I needed to do some more backups, win8.1 wanted to "initialize" the usb3 hdd even tho it had been reformatted by win7 since it was claimed by some that the ntfs had been changed some. Anyway, back to win7 which does work unlike win8.x; don't even think I will try win8.2 if it appears in 2014. I have no intention of buying another usb3 hdd just for win8.x. I think there are a few test cases you could run, for your own peace of mind. What bothers me a tiny bit about your symptoms, is the "desire to initialize". It means the disk is being detected each time, implying communications is not completely broken. Maybe the "initialize" is the procedure Disk Management does when a blank drive is seen ? Like, the MBR is all zeros, and the OS wants to put a serial number on the drive. That suggests it attempted to read the disk, and somehow got back a sector of zeros. Or it got a sector, where the 0xAA55 at the end was missing (for Sector 0 MBR). The Robocopy mis-behaving, that could be packet errors on the USB3 cable. Maybe that would be enough to cause a transfer to fail. Usually, Robocopy users set the retry counter on the command line, so Robocopy is running in a kind of "robust" mode where if the hardware is occasionally flaky, it'll retry. And that would mean the communications is quite flaky, as multiple errors are happening in a row. Since you have 700GB on the drive, I would be concerned about losing that. If that is your only copy. I'd transfer that off to another drive, then use the drive itself for testing. I'd try a FAT32 partition, as the OS is less likely to go "version crazy" about FAT32. Another test case, would be to pull the drive from the USB3 enclosure, and cable it up inside the computer. Then try some of the test cases again. If the drive tries to "initialize" again, that means it's less likely to be a USB3 problem, and it's something else. I would not be surprised if the Microsoft USB3 driver was less than perfect. While it's fun to pretend all USB3 hosts are "register perfect", when Microsoft gathers up all the drivers from Etron, Asmedia, NEC and so on, Microsoft would have to include all "quirks" incorporated in the other drivers. If Etron knew that some register needed 20uS to "settle", their code would need to be commented, and then Microsoft would add a "quirk" to their code, to add some settling time if an Etron chip is the target. It wouldn't serve any purpose, to just write a generic driver against an "ideal" register set, and break all the less-than-perfect host controllers out there. Paul |
#48
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Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
xfile has written on 12/5/2013 9:27 PM:
How about 5 minutes and ZERO dollars? OK, add in the time to down load and install Chrome, Irfanview and VLC. And -- although I don't a list at my fingertips -- there are aspects of 8 that are improvements over 7. Hi Juan Wei, I am not exactly a frequent visitor to this newsgroup, but your name isn't a new one to me. You pretty much excluded all the time you spent on this newsgroup (and perhaps other places), and of course, over years. You misinterpret what I said. To clarify, a person who wants to make 8 look like 7 can implement the changes in 5-10 minutes. |
#49
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Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
You misinterpret what I said. To clarify, a person who wants to make 8
look like 7 can implement the changes in 5-10 minutes. I didn't. That knowledge, just like any other knowledge, is not born with and require time and efforts to know. We just conveniently forget the learning process part. |
#50
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Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
On 12/6/2013 9:35 AM, Juan Wei wrote:
xfile has written on 12/5/2013 9:27 PM: How about 5 minutes and ZERO dollars? OK, add in the time to down load and install Chrome, Irfanview and VLC. And -- although I don't a list at my fingertips -- there are aspects of 8 that are improvements over 7. Hi Juan Wei, I am not exactly a frequent visitor to this newsgroup, but your name isn't a new one to me. You pretty much excluded all the time you spent on this newsgroup (and perhaps other places), and of course, over years. You misinterpret what I said. To clarify, a person who wants to make 8 look like 7 can implement the changes in 5-10 minutes. And boot to the desktop? If you want Windows 7, why buy Window 8? -- Alias |
#51
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Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
Per Jim:
I really don't understand why this OS is disliked by so many people. IMHO, Windows 8.1 is equal or better than Windows 7. For me, it's Microsoft's moving the furniture around - again... for no apparent functional reason. For the corporations I used to serve, I'd imagine it's the cost and lost time involved teaching 10,000 - 20,000 employees the new furniture locations. -- Pete Cresswell |
#52
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Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
On 2013-12-06, Paul wrote:
generic name wrote: On 2013-12-05, Juan Wei wrote: Jim has written on 12/4/2013 11:40 PM: On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 19:22:32 -0700, Ken Springer wrote: Winston and xfile, This link was posted in a Mozilla newsgroup: http://www.theage.com.au/digital-lif...203-2yo3r.html I have no idea if the site is reliable, but the date for the page is 12/3/13. I for one have no trouble at all with Windows 8.1. The way I have it set up it isn't much different than Windows 7. I don't use the Metro stuff so I uninstalled all the apps, also I have Start8 and boot directly to the desktop. I could probably get by without Start8 and still do fine with Windows 8.1. I am amused when I see the posts from people who are downgrading to Windows. A few tweaks makes Win 8.1 the same as Win 7 so why downgrade? I really don't understand why this OS is disliked by so many people. IMHO, Windows 8.1 is equal or better than Windows 7. Amen. The msft drivers for usb3 are scr$ed up. msft coopted having msft usb3 drivers as part of the win8.x so that mfg are not providing any usb3 drivers for their hardware. E.g. the 1st time I had win8 on the desktop, win8 kept interfering with mass copying using either robocopy or richcopy; the files were audio files & the copying wasn't successful as autoplay stopped all processing even when autoplay was set to be disabled for ALL drives. Then win8 started to claim that the usb3 hdd had to be "initialized" before it can be used even tho about 700+ gb were on the drive. After reverting to win7, I did more backups from my nas to the usb3 hdd. However, when 8.1 became available, I stupidly thought m$ fixed the usb3 problems that have been reported. A ms person just claimed that the drivers are "perfect", it is just the hardware mfg doing an incorrect implementation (sounds like jobs & apple). When I needed to do some more backups, win8.1 wanted to "initialize" the usb3 hdd even tho it had been reformatted by win7 since it was claimed by some that the ntfs had been changed some. Anyway, back to win7 which does work unlike win8.x; don't even think I will try win8.2 if it appears in 2014. I have no intention of buying another usb3 hdd just for win8.x. I think there are a few test cases you could run, for your own peace of mind. What bothers me a tiny bit about your symptoms, is the "desire to initialize". It means the disk is being detected each time, implying communications is not completely broken. Maybe the "initialize" is the procedure Disk Management does when a blank drive is seen ? Like, the MBR is all zeros, and the OS wants to put a serial number on the drive. That suggests it attempted to read the disk, and somehow got back a sector of zeros. Or it got a sector, where the 0xAA55 at the end was missing (for Sector 0 MBR). The Robocopy mis-behaving, that could be packet errors on the USB3 cable. Maybe that would be enough to cause a transfer to fail. Usually, Robocopy users set the retry counter on the command line, so Robocopy is running in a kind of "robust" mode where if the hardware is occasionally flaky, it'll retry. And that would mean the communications is quite flaky, as multiple errors are happening in a row. Since you have 700GB on the drive, I would be concerned about losing that. If that is your only copy. I'd transfer that off to another drive, then use the drive itself for testing. I'd try a FAT32 partition, as the OS is less likely to go "version crazy" about FAT32. Another test case, would be to pull the drive from the USB3 enclosure, and cable it up inside the computer. Then try some of the test cases again. If the drive tries to "initialize" again, that means it's less likely to be a USB3 problem, and it's something else. I would not be surprised if the Microsoft USB3 driver was less than perfect. While it's fun to pretend all USB3 hosts are "register perfect", when Microsoft gathers up all the drivers from Etron, Asmedia, NEC and so on, Microsoft would have to include all "quirks" incorporated in the other drivers. If Etron knew that some register needed 20uS to "settle", their code would need to be commented, and then Microsoft would add a "quirk" to their code, to add some settling time if an Etron chip is the target. It wouldn't serve any purpose, to just write a generic driver against an "ideal" register set, and break all the less-than-perfect host controllers out there. Paul There is slightly over 1 TB on the drive now; done under win7. The "error" msgs were that robocopy/richcopy/xcopy "could not find the path for ......." in the report log; sometimes the msgs occurred because autoplay popped up & stops the copying & accounts for error msgs claiming that the "drive is not ready" or accessible. The main thing is why would win7 with the mfg's usb3 driver work without any problems & win8.x has all kinds of problems? The usb3 hdd IS MY BACKUP of the nas drive even if it didn't start that way before I bought the WD's MyBookLive nas. Thinking win8.x may be correct & that the claims I had a bad hdd & cable, I reformatted the drive after I went back to win7 the 1st time then copied the files from the nas to the usb3 hdd without any problems. At this point I copied nearly 900 gb successfully under win7. When I installed win8 again then updated to win8.1 the attempt to copy merely 4 CD albums onto the usb3 hdd, the errors returned! So bit the bullet again & returned to win7 & all is well. |
#53
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Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
xfile has written on 12/6/2013 4:11 AM:
You misinterpret what I said. To clarify, a person who wants to make 8 look like 7 can implement the changes in 5-10 minutes. I didn't. That knowledge, just like any other knowledge, is not born with and require time and efforts to know. We just conveniently forget the learning process part. Well, these days, a person can just google "banish metro" and get instant knowledge. :-) |
#54
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Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
On 12/6/13 12:50 PM, Juan Wei wrote:
xfile has written on 12/6/2013 4:11 AM: You misinterpret what I said. To clarify, a person who wants to make 8 look like 7 can implement the changes in 5-10 minutes. I didn't. That knowledge, just like any other knowledge, is not born with and require time and efforts to know. We just conveniently forget the learning process part. Well, these days, a person can just google "banish metro" and get instant knowledge. :-) I think you missed xfile's point. Most people aren't even going to have a clue you can do something like that, so they aren't going to look for an option. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 24.0 Thunderbird 17.0.8 |
#55
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Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
On 12/7/2013 05:54, Ken Springer wrote:
On 12/6/13 12:50 PM, Juan Wei wrote: xfile has written on 12/6/2013 4:11 AM: You misinterpret what I said. To clarify, a person who wants to make 8 look like 7 can implement the changes in 5-10 minutes. I didn't. That knowledge, just like any other knowledge, is not born with and require time and efforts to know. We just conveniently forget the learning process part. Well, these days, a person can just google "banish metro" and get instant knowledge. :-) I think you missed xfile's point. Most people aren't even going to have a clue you can do something like that, so they aren't going to look for an option. Thank you! |
#56
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Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
On 12/7/2013 06:46, Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:
On 2013-12-06 4:54 PM, Ken Springer wrote: On 12/6/13 12:50 PM, Juan Wei wrote: xfile has written on 12/6/2013 4:11 AM: You misinterpret what I said. To clarify, a person who wants to make 8 look like 7 can implement the changes in 5-10 minutes. I didn't. That knowledge, just like any other knowledge, is not born with and require time and efforts to know. We just conveniently forget the learning process part. Well, these days, a person can just google "banish metro" and get instant knowledge. :-) I think you missed xfile's point. Most people aren't even going to have a clue you can do something like that, so they aren't going to look for an option. Exactly so. Most people expect a computer to work like a car: just start it up, and away you go. They expect every computer to work pretty well the same way just as they expect every car to work pretty well the same way. Imagine that GM decided to put the accelerator on the steering wheel, but left the accelerator pedal in place. But you can't use the pedal unless you figure out that you have to turn the ignition switch towards you instead of away from you, and then press the Resume button on the cruise control. Then you have to start the car by turning the ignition switch in the standard direction. If you want to use the pedal every time you drive the car, yuou have to go to a mechanic who will rearrange some of the wiring.... Have a good day, Exactly! But Microsofties would think that it's an old thinking mentality , and more importantly, why is that it's Apple and/or Google gets to redefine the trend and not the giant? What Microsofties don't realize is that both (and other) companies are smart enough for not competing against the giant head-to-head (i.e. both don't directly touch enterprises and business, in general), so they can utilize their strengths without exposing weaknesses. Using devices as an example, they are developed and designed *primarily* for personal use and not with a grand goal to replace work machines. Nevertheless, the boundary between personal and work is getting blurred nowadays. Do I use a company notebook exclusively for work-related emails and have my tablet or phone only for personal emails, so I carry both wherever I go? Obviously, it doesn't work that way. So people will choose to carry one, and most of time, the lightest and most convenient for both purposes – and that is a device. But at least at this point, devices for work purposes and as everyone already knows are mostly for convenience (so you don't have to run back to your workstations) and are not suitable for long work hours (at least, not without an attached *keyboard* and/or an external monitor) needless to say for heavy-duty works, such as lengthy documents, complex image editing, and so on. But we have this giant who, again, wants it all and wants to be the leader in all areas, despite the lack of talents and experience on the final finished products (console is a small niche and accessories are not) and final end users and who has always been an OEM company and now wants to change everything including those shouldn't. "One Microsoft" or Two or Three won't change anything unless they figure out whether they should remain to be an OEM company or a finished product company or a service company, or all. They should have made that decision years ago but they didn't which is why Steve Ballmer has to go. Currently, they want it all, but compared with their main competitors, they know nothing about the rest two and they are also competing directly against their old allies (e.g. Dell, HP, Acer, Asus, etc.). What a great strategy! |
#57
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Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
On 12/6/13 6:41 PM, xfile wrote:
On 12/7/2013 05:54, Ken Springer wrote: On 12/6/13 12:50 PM, Juan Wei wrote: xfile has written on 12/6/2013 4:11 AM: You misinterpret what I said. To clarify, a person who wants to make 8 look like 7 can implement the changes in 5-10 minutes. I didn't. That knowledge, just like any other knowledge, is not born with and require time and efforts to know. We just conveniently forget the learning process part. Well, these days, a person can just google "banish metro" and get instant knowledge. :-) I think you missed xfile's point. Most people aren't even going to have a clue you can do something like that, so they aren't going to look for an option. Thank you! You're welcome. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 24.0 Thunderbird 17.0.8 |
#58
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Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 15:39:00 -0500, Keith Nuttle
wrote: I will never place data in the "Cloud". It is my data to do with as I wish, not what some computer company wants to do to make more money. I have a perfect security system on my computer. I turn it off when I am not using it. You do mean "turn it off", as in "pull all the batteries, including the MB ones", right ? http://software.intel.com/sites/defa...whitepaper.pdf (that's from NSA-Intel, not a hoax) []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
#59
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Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
Shadow has written on 12/7/2013 12:46 PM:
On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 15:39:00 -0500, Keith Nuttle wrote: I will never place data in the "Cloud". It is my data to do with as I wish, not what some computer company wants to do to make more money. I have a perfect security system on my computer. I turn it off when I am not using it. You do mean "turn it off", as in "pull all the batteries, including the MB ones", right ? I think a true power-off would suffice. |
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Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2
"Johnny" wrote in message ... I have moved on to Linux Mint 16, and won't be using Windows again. It does everything I need it to do, and it's fun to use. My family is moving on to MACS. We're among the last ones hanging on to Windows. After all these recent problems with Vista and W7, we may join them when these computers w/Windows crash and burn for the last time. I played with a friend's W8 for awhile and wasn't impressed. |
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