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#46
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"Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."
On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 00:15:23 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Stan Brown writes: [] Now, if there were just some way to tell Thunderbird that I want to leave all my online mail on line, and NOT have it copied to my PC. You'd think that would be simple, but if there's any way at all I've failed to discover it. Isn't that what IMAP is supposed to be about (or, at a stretch, POP with it set to - depending on how the client puts it - to "leave email on server" or "not delete mail from server)? Obviously, to actually look at your emails, the client has to download them; whether it then immediately discards them, is just a matter of semantics. Yes, it is. That's why I find it so frustrating that Thunderbird doesn't work that way. Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean: your reference to "my online mail" makes me think that is probably the case, as I can't think what other sort of mail there might be. By "my online mail" I meant email that I don't deliberately download from mail servers. Thunderbird downloads it anyway, judging from the "Downloading" messages in the status line and from the relentless growth of my profile. Every setting I could find is set for it not to do that, but it happens anyway. Thunderbird lets me drag email between local folders, between remote folders, or between a local and a remote folder. I think that's exactly what IMAP is for. But even when I don't drag anything to local folders, and have deleted the emails in the local "Sent" folder, and have compacted folders -=- STILL my profile grow and grows. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://BrownMath.com/ http://OakRoadSystems.com/ Shikata ga nai... |
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#47
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"Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."
On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 00:10:44 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Mayayana writes: [quoted text muted] | and encryption - varying.) I have TBird and OE. Both store in a "flat file" with minimal structure and no encryption. It's still a single file though. Not in Thunderbird. Every week I seem to have hundreds of new files, despite not dragging any emails fromthe server folders to local folders on my own computer. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://BrownMath.com/ http://OakRoadSystems.com/ Shikata ga nai... |
#48
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"Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."
"Stan Brown" wrote
| It's still a single file though. | | | Not in Thunderbird. Every week I seem to have hundreds of new files, | despite not dragging any emails fromthe server folders to local | folders on my own computer. | With IMAP? I've never used IMAP, but anyone using POP email in OE or TBird has single email files. My understanding with IMAP was that it worked the same but left email on the server. So maybe it's single files on the POP/IMAP server, but most people are not accessing their email that way. And if that's the only place you want your email then backup is a moot point. |
#49
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"Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to somethingafter all."
On 9/13/2018 6:46 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
Fun article from How-to Geek today, about Microsoft's latest Windows 10 updates, that now tell you Chrome and Frirefox are unsafe when you try to download them. https://www.howtogeek.com/365983/win...-push-firefox- and-chrome-over-the-edge/ And maybe because nothing better has been demonstrated- We had win 8, which we changed with "Start 8" so it was like 7. Then 8.1 (= 9) which was changed so it was like 7. Now 10, which we change with Start 10 so it's like 7. What is needed that 7 doesn't have? |
#50
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"Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to somethingafter all."
On 16/09/2018 14:18, Mayayana wrote:
Out of curiosity I tried the Export function in OE and it told me that it would only export to Outlook or MS Exchange. Parochial monopoly strikes again. Exactly the sort of reason why I no longer keep important data such as emails in Microshaft software formats. |
#51
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"Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."
"Mathedman" wrote
| What is needed that 7 doesn't have? Are you kidding?! Try getting a Metro app on Win7 to turn your computer into a flashlight. No can do. |
#52
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"Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to somethingafter all."
On 09/15/2018 02:07 PM, Ant wrote:
notX wrote: ... I once saw a documentary that said that corporations are essentially psychopaths (not caring about anything but profit). Makes sense. Which documentary was that? I'd like to see it. "The Corporation", which I found on the internet. It appears to be this: https://www.amazon.com/Corporation-M...he+corporation |
#53
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"Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."
In message , Mayayana
writes: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote | (Unfortunately, TP stores it with strong encryption, that can't be | turned off.) According to this... https://www.mailxaminer.com/blog/inv...client-emails/ ...it uses Berkeley Mailbox format, or at least can export in that format as a .mbox file. That's also Ay, that's the rub: it can export to it, but not then use what it has exported (without importing it). I don't know what it uses in RAM (quite likely Berkeley format - TP was standards-compliant to a fault), but its working files have strong encryption before they're sent to disc. I was really just bemoaning that, AFAIK and limiting to Windows, _no_ client _uses_ a discrete file for each email, although mot of them _look_ as if they are (the UI emulating Windows Explorer, to varying extents). IE - at least early versions, I don't know about modern ones - uses a separate file for each "favorite"; I couldn't believe _that_ the first time I discovered it, since Netscape used a single HTML file for _all_ its bookmarks. (Bookmarks - certainly then and sometimes even now - were only tens of bytes, a lot less than the cluster size a file takes.) I think early Firefoxes used similar; later used something different, but it's still AFAIK one file, and can import from the old ones. [] All of that's to say that you should be able to get your email out without much trouble, but I'm not aware of any program that will just export single messages. I can drag them out onto the desktop one at a time, as can also be done with TBird. But TP can export one or many messages (into one .txt file; I don't think it can export many messages into many files in one go). But it can't be configured to do so and _work_ with those files. I can't save all of them. Out of curiosity I tried the Export function in OE and it told me that it would only export to Outlook or MS Exchange. Parochial monopoly strikes again. )-: I think Outlook is similar. One way - either import or export, I forget which, maybe both - it will indeed only do so to/from a short list of clients. [] | Do you use OE as your main email client, then? You betcha. I've used OE6 for many years. I'm ambivalent these days because its encryption methods are no longer usable. It can't handle above TLS 1.0, if I remember correctly. And that's been hacked. While it's still probably very useful, many companies won't support it. I'd have to move to TBird to get encryption. I always thought OE - at least, with OE-quotefix - was much maligned; it works pretty well. But the value of encryption is debatable. I don't plan bank heists via email. And I'm already hesitant [Where do you plan them (-:?] [] OE also has limited security because of its age. But that doesn't really apply to me. I don't enable script or HTML email. And with anything TP can display HTML - and when I say display, I mean exactly that: not run scripts. (It also shows a couple of buttons if an email has a plain text and an HTML version, and I usually select the former, though these days the text version is often just boilerplate text saying your client is duff or similar.) that looks fishy I look at the source code first. Security is for people who open spam as HTML and can't be bothered checking URLs before clicking them. In all other things I find OE very well designed and fully functional. This topic was discussed recently. There are a number of aspects of TBird that I find sloppy or poorly designed. Starting with the idiotic way it imports OE email to a second-class sub-tree. TBird is my first choice if I ever have to switch over but so far I don't need to. I think the same applies here (from TP), and it's what I set up anyone I'm setting up email for with; I accept it may not be the best (though haven't tried any of the ones claimed to be better), but I think of it as the best compromise between working _reasonably_ well, not being _too_ iniquitous, and there being a fairly good chance of (my victims) being able to find someone to ask about any problems with it. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf in the kingdom of the bland, the one idea is king. - Rory Bremner (on politics), RT 2015/1/31-2/6 |
#54
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"Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."
On 15/09/2018 22:06:24, Java Jive wrote:
On 15/09/2018 20:44, mick wrote: To see all your archive pst files and be able to access the info in them all you do is add those files under the data files tab in account settings.* They then show up in the Outlook folder hierarchy where they can be searched normally providing that you have set to 'search all items' in preferences. I think I can remember why I never did this. Every time Outlook, at least 2000 and I think 2010's the same, opens a *.pst file, it changes the date on it, even if the contents of the file do not change. Excel 2000 does this as well. This means that you only have to open a file to examine its contents, change nothing, but that file will now have a new timestamp, and when you run your incremental back up software, the otherwise-unchanged file will get backed up, and it doesn't matter then whether your 17 years' worth of Outlook data are in one monolithic file or spread over 17 files, the amount of data to be backed up last thing before you retire to bed is roughly the same, and relatively large. I don't think I knew that you could add archive files to be included in searches though, probably because I delete off the PC and leave them only on the server, so that might prove useful knowleadge, if not to me, then to others, for which thanks. But for myself, I'm trying to make myself independent of MS-based systems, so I'm unlikely ever to go back to using Outlook for email. The one thing I still have to open it for is that I made a lot of notes, and although I've managed to export them into SQL format, I've not found anything which lets me browse them in a tree-like structure the way Outlook does. Yes, your are correct about the time stamp, but I just mark those files to be excluded from future back ups. That is easy enough to do along with other files and folders such as photos, videos and books that will never want to be repeatedly backed up. -- mick |
#55
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"Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."
In message , mick
writes: [] Yes, your are correct about the time stamp, but I just mark those files to be excluded from future back ups. That is easy enough to do along with other files and folders such as photos, videos and books that will never want to be repeatedly backed up. Sounds like you might benefit from some syncing application for your backups, if you have lots of files you don't want to back up repeatedly (because they haven't changed). I use synctoy to "back up" my D: partition (cycling round two or three backups, though that's not relevant to this discussion); other sync utilities are available. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf "Dook, that was great but I think the line needs awe. Can you do it again, giving it just a little awe?" "Sure, George," said Wayne and looking up at the cross said: "Aw, truly this man is the son of God." (recounted in Radio Times, 30 March-5 April 2013.) |
#56
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"Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to somethingafter all."
On 9/16/2018 9:09 AM, Mayayana wrote:
"Mathedman" wrote | What is needed that 7 doesn't have? Are you kidding?! Try getting a Metro app on Win7 to turn your computer into a flashlight. No can do. Win 7 also isn't as good at resetting my misguided preferences. |
#57
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"Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."
jetjock wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 15:49:48 -0400, Stan Brown wrote: On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 08:52:56 -0400, Wolf K wrote: Er, all email clients save account details, etc. They just do it differently. In Tbird, it's all stored in a folder labeled "Profiles". Which can store two or more different profiles, each with its own accounts, etc. Profiles can be reused not only in different instances of TB, and on different PCs, they can be reused on TB running on different operating systems. I can confirm that, if you consider Win 7 and Win 8 as different operating systems. I regularly copy my profile from my big laptop to my small one, and everything works the same on both. Now, if there were just some way to tell Thunderbird that I want to leave all my online mail on line, and NOT have it copied to my PC. You'd think that would be simple, but if there's any way at all I've failed to discover it. Sounds to me like something IMAP does. Does Thunderbird not have IMAP capability? It does have IMAP. -- Quote of the Week: "Still we live meanly, like ants;... like pygmies we fight with cranes;... Our life is frittered away by detail. Simplify... simplify..." --Henry Thoreau Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / http://antfarm.ma.cx / /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit- | |o o| | ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and URL/link. \ _ / ( ) |
#58
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"Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to somethingafter all."
On 14/09/2018 00:46, Stan Brown wrote:
Fun article You are the same Stupid Stan Brown so whatever crap you post here is not going to make anybody take it seriously. Windows 10 is here and intelligent people, especially young people, should start using it unless they want to remain idiot like you. -- With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. |
#59
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"Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."
notX wrote:
On 09/15/2018 02:07 PM, Ant wrote: notX wrote: ... I once saw a documentary that said that corporations are essentially psychopaths (not caring about anything but profit). Makes sense. Which documentary was that? I'd like to see it. "The Corporation", which I found on the internet. It appears to be this: https://www.amazon.com/Corporation-M...he+corporation Ah, nice scores in http://flickmetrix.com/?id=379225. So up to 2003? Darn, there should be a sequel to 2018! -- Quote of the Week: "Still we live meanly, like ants;... like pygmies we fight with cranes;... Our life is frittered away by detail. Simplify... simplify..." --Henry Thoreau Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / http://antfarm.ma.cx / /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit- | |o o| | ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and URL/link. \ _ / ( ) |
#60
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"Maybe all those people clinging to Windows 7 are on to something after all."
notX wrote:
On 09/15/2018 02:07 PM, Ant wrote: notX wrote: ... I once saw a documentary that said that corporations are essentially psychopaths (not caring about anything but profit). Makes sense. Which documentary was that? I'd like to see it. "The Corporation", which I found on the internet. It appears to be this: https://www.amazon.com/Corporation-M...he+corporation Is this it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMNZXV7jOG0 -- Quote of the Week: "Still we live meanly, like ants;... like pygmies we fight with cranes;... Our life is frittered away by detail. Simplify... simplify..." --Henry Thoreau Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / http://antfarm.ma.cx / /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit- | |o o| | ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and URL/link. \ _ / ( ) |
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