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#16
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Error: Stray start tag script.
In message Mayayana wrote:
"Joy Beeson" wrote | On the other hand, why do you care about W3C? | | Because getting rid of errors that don't matter makes it much easier | to find errors that do matter. | That doesn't make sense. If they don't matter then they don't affect anything. It makes perfect sense. You are obviously not a coder. W3C takes a letter-of-the-law approach. The main point is whether your pages display properly in different browsers. For instance, not declaring DOCTYPE is considered an error. But that's used to indicate quirks mode for IE. I don't want my pages parsed as HTML5. It's too brittle. You can say I'm wrong, but my pages display right. You are scared of HTML5 and are writing for IE. In 2019. Wow. Have fun living in your quirks bubble of shame. (rest of nonsense deleted) -- The point about being killed by magic was that it was much more inventive than, say, steel; there were all sorts of interesting new ways to die, and he couldn't put out of his mind the shapes he'd seen, just for an instant, before the wash of octarine fire had mercifully engulfed them. --Sourcery |
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#17
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Error: Stray start tag script.
Tim Streater wrote: What you *do* need to now is that all these obsolete/deprecated elements will continue to be implemented in browsers for ever. blinkoh yeah?/blink |
#18
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Error: Stray start tag script.
People, the same stuff is being posted in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html and alt.html. If it really makes sense to post in both groups, please learn how to cross-post, i.e. post to both groups at the same time. People with a sensible newsreader will then see the posts only once; if they are marked as read in one group, then they will be marked as read in another. If you don't know what a sensible newsreader is, what crossposting is, what "marked as read" means, then consider how much time you are wasting. |
#19
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Error: Stray start tag script.
"Lewis" wrote
| You are scared of HTML5 and are writing for IE. In 2019. Wow. | | Have fun living in your quirks bubble of shame. | That's quite a moralistic indictment. I wasn't aware that HTML5 was a moral issue. I guess that highlights a fundamental shift in web design over the years. It used to be that rule #1 was that a page should work in all browsers and degrade gracefully. That meant that if you wanted to use javascript for jazzy effects it shouldn't break your page. Nothing should be Flash-dependent. An IMG or A tag, especially, shouldn't break without script, since that's entirely unnecessary. If you want to use the latest HTML or CSS those things, also, shouldn't break the page. The basic idea was simply that webpages should work. I go by that rule because I want to make attractive pages that are functional. I don't regard visitors with older browsers as "shameful". I don't throw rotten fruit at people who disable script. I try to code without needing script. I don't believe people using IE8 should be tarred and feathered. They bought their computer and they use it. If they want to access my pages then I hope they can. And I hope they can find something useful. On the other hand, I also don't cater to people on phones. They're not paying attention. If they actually want something on my site then they'll be back via computer screen. That means I have no need to "lazy-load" different sized images and break the page by doing it. The newer approach is entirely different. The Web is being redefined as an ad-supported services technology. Phones are big. apps are big. Spying and ads are big. Increasingly, web pages are not HTML at all but rather software programs written in javascript and designed to run in a browser. If people can't load the page, screw 'em. They probably weren't going to spend any money, anyway. And Google's ad server won't pay you if you can't track your visitors and force a popup on them. Big companies and small are increasingly insisting on a new browser with script enabled. And many deliberately sabotage their pages to break without script. Do you think those people are coders? Most are just pasting in the latest gimmicks written into "libraries" like jquery, in their WYSIWYG webpage editor and actually have no idea how brittle and their pages are. They have simple priorites: Create content that allows for showing as many ads as possible to as many people as possible. Collect as much data as possible. Sell it. Rinse and repeat. That reminds me of a realtor who had a webpage made entirely with Flash. I pointed out that some people wouldn't be able to see his pages. But he wanted "max pizzazz". He sniffed that the people he was interested in seeing his site would surely have "this Flash or whatever it is". So allow me to also wish you well as a cutting edge 2019-er: I hope you also have fun with your HTML5- conforming frozen-yogurt-and-bubble-tea-shop-finder phone app. Might I suggest a good name for your auspicious launch into enterprise riches? Slurp n' Burp might be good. Tapioca Orgasm? Or maybe jump on the bactria fad bandwagon: Frozen Biome or Acidophi-Fun. (You can have those names for free. Just don't expect that y ou'll be able to show me an ad because I won't have your app.) |
#20
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Error: Stray start tag script.
"Tim Streater" wrote
| That's the exception that proves the rule. Now try to come up with | another 10 elements no longer implemented in browsers. | I was recently looking at a friend's site. Made in Front Page with FONT tags. It's not pretty, but it works. Which is more than I can say for Wix sites and a lot of current news sites that either have DIVs piled on top of each other or have text so big (optimized for phones) that I can't read it. |
#21
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Error: Stray start tag script.
In article , Mayayana
wrote: I go by that rule because I want to make attractive pages that are functional. I don't regard visitors with older browsers as "shameful". I don't throw rotten fruit at people who disable script. I try to code without needing script. I don't believe people using IE8 should be tarred and feathered. just the ones who use edge, then? They bought their computer and they use it. If they want to access my pages then I hope they can. And I hope they can find something useful. On the other hand, I also don't cater to people on phones. They're not paying attention. If they actually want something on my site then they'll be back via computer screen. there's a lot more people using phones and tablets to browse, and if your site looks like ****, they likely won't be back. also google will rank you lower if there's no mobile-friendly version, so that affects non-mobile users. That means I have no need to "lazy-load" different sized images and break the page by doing it. it means you don't understand much about web design. |
#22
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Error: Stray start tag script.
On 1/6/2019 7:45 AM, Mayayana wrote:
I was recently looking at a friend's site. Made in Front Page God help him if he ever needs to modify that site. |
#23
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Error: Stray start tag script.
In message Mayayana wrote:
"Lewis" wrote | You are scared of HTML5 and are writing for IE. In 2019. Wow. | | Have fun living in your quirks bubble of shame. | That's quite a moralistic indictment. I wasn't aware that HTML5 was a moral issue. I think you are confused about the meaning of morals. I go by that rule because I want to make attractive pages that are functional. And are too lazy to learn how to do it properly. On the other hand, I also don't cater to people on phones. They're not paying attention. If they actually want something on my site then they'll be back via computer screen. That means I have no need to "lazy-load" different sized images and break the page by doing it. GET OFF MY LAWN YOU DAMN KIDS! Writing a responsive page that looks good on anyone's device does not require breaking anything at all. It also doesn't require the "oooo scary!" JavaScript. You simply don't want to take the time to learn how to do things correctly. Which is fine. But to pretend your laziness is some stand against evil is absurd, bordering on delusional. If you are writing against IE8 (less than 1 in a thousand web users) while ignoring Safari, Chrome, and Firefox current versions (98% of webusers) then you are foolish. But by all means, be foolish. Just don't tell other people to emulate you. -- "If this is the best God can do, I'm not impressed." |
#24
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Error: Stray start tag script.
"Lewis" wrote
| If you are writing against IE8 (less than 1 in a thousand web users) | while ignoring Safari, Chrome, and Firefox current versions (98% of | webusers) then you are foolish. Where did you get that? I never said any such thing. Perhaps you could relax your trigger finger a bit and read what I'm writing. I said I try to support all browsers as much as possible. And I said I consider that more important than strict adherence to the latest standards. I actually maintain 2 sets of pages -- one for IE and one for all other browsers. I support IE6+ along with all standards browsers -- Chromish and Mozilliate, let's say. Though I don't currently support Edge. It's broken as a version of IE, doesn't seem to be the same as other browsers, and is basically a boutique browser that can only run on Win10. It also has a very small user base. 2-4% last I saw. But if Microsoft converts it to a Chrome clone, as expected, then I should be able to support it. |
#25
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Error: Stray start tag script.
"Scott Bryce" wrote
| I was recently looking at a friend's site. Made in Front Page | | God help him if he ever needs to modify that site. | I was hoping to do God's job for Him. This is an old friend and his business has been a big help to me over the years. But you're right, of course. He's been editing in a WYSIWYG GUI for 20 years. The FTP functionality is hidden from him. And I just can't get him to make the leap to learning some code. He needs to not only update his site but to also be able to do edits occasionally. So his choices are really to accept my help and learn some coding, or hire a web designer who will probably charge him a monthly fee, holding his site hostage and serving as a bottleneck that page edits must go through. There are millions of small businesses in that bind. |
#26
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Error: Stray start tag script.
In article , Mayayana
wrote: | If you are writing against IE8 (less than 1 in a thousand web users) | while ignoring Safari, Chrome, and Firefox current versions (98% of | webusers) then you are foolish. Where did you get that? I never said any such thing. Perhaps you could relax your trigger finger a bit and read what I'm writing. I said I try to support all browsers as much as possible. but you don't. And I said I consider that more important than strict adherence to the latest standards. that's what the standards are for. I actually maintain 2 sets of pages -- one for IE and one for all other browsers. I support IE6+ along with all standards browsers -- Chromish and Mozilliate, let's say. then you're doing it wrong. |
#27
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Error: Stray start tag script.
On 1/6/2019 1:10 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Scott Bryce" wrote I was recently looking at a friend's site. Made in Front Page God help him if he ever needs to modify that site. | I was hoping to do God's job for Him. Back in the day, when I was sometimes called upon to help fix other people's sites, I had a standing policy that I would not work on any site that had been created with FrontPage. The code is just too messy. Almost any edit would break the entire page. It was easier to just rebuild the whole thing from scratch. But that is also a good reason to validate your HTML. Valid HTML is easier to edit, and more likely to work across browsers, including browsers you don't have the luxury of testing in. So his choices are really to accept my help and learn some coding Do him a favor, and teach him to do it right by writing code that validates. |
#28
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Error: Stray start tag script.
On 06/01/2019 20:26, Scott Bryce wrote:
On 1/6/2019 1:10 PM, Mayayana wrote: "Scott Bryce" wrote I was recently looking at a friend's site. Made in Front Page God help him if he ever needs to modify that site. | Â* I was hoping to do God's job for Him. Back in the day, when I was sometimes called upon to help fix other people's sites, I had a standing policy that I would not work on any site that had been created with FrontPage. The code is just too messy. Almost any edit would break the entire page. It was easier to just rebuild the whole thing from scratch. But that is also a good reason to validate your HTML. Valid HTML is easier to edit, and more likely to work across browsers, including browsers you don't have the luxury of testing in. It would be helpful if Mayayana were to post a link to the URL of his friend's website - simply so that others could actually SEE the mess which is his coding! So his choices are really to accept my help and learn some coding Do him a favor, and teach him to do it right by writing code that validates. I've learned much by studying the coding instructions posted he- www.tekrider.net The site owner has also stressed the need to validate one's code. -- David B. |
#29
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Error: Stray start tag script.
On 06/01/2019 20:42, David B. wrote:
[....] I've learned much by studying the coding instructions posted he- www.tekrider.net The site owner has also stressed the need to validate one's code. All looks good! :-) https://validator.w3.org/check?uri=h...%2F index.php -- David B. |
#30
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Error: Stray start tag script.
"David B." "David wrote
| It would be helpful if Mayayana were to post a link to the URL of his | friend's website - simply so that others could actually SEE the mess | which is his coding! | Would you understand it? Front Page was an early WYSIWYG editor. So it did a lot of clunky things, like using a table just to put some space around a line of text. And using FONT tags. And using lots and lots of There was no CSS then. But the point was that it still works fine today, even though FONT was deprecated ages ago and a lot of hotshot web designers would laugh you out of the room for using TABLE. The other problem with Front Page was that it made everything easy by hiding the code and FTP. Like Wix or Wordpress today, you could set up a website with drag-drop but then you have no idea how to manage it without those tools. |
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