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Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 24th 20, 01:23 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 306
Default Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?

1. I was getting BSODs even as the HP self diagnostics were coming clean.
(I tried all the repair options for days, but nothing worked.)
2. So I formatted the HDD & installed Windows 10 Pro perfectly clean.
Everything works fine for about an hour or so... and then BSOD!
3. They're not even the same BSOD, so I "think" it's the PC hardware.
But what?
4. Which hardware could it be (the HP diagnostics all report clean).
CPU, memory, motherboard ... HP diagnostics report all are clean.

Windows runs for an hour or so and then turns blue with a variety of BSODs,
where this is just the _latest_ sequence of BSODs after about an hour.
a. Memory management
b. System service exception
c. Kernel security check failure
d. Unexpected kernel mode trap

Here's a sequence, in order, of BSODs and reboots from today to help out:
https://i.postimg.cc/9Q4m7tfM/bsod01.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/DyNFnJcK/bsod02.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/zGRNBzdH/bsod03.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/9McHJGcy/bsod04.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/qq5fJSyG/bsod05.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/JnFKGLYt/bsod06.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/gk3FFSr3/bsod07.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Pq30z0Fn/bsod08.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/JnSgSZLT/bsod09.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/XYnhMnR0/bsod10.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/zGpQ89NH/bsod11.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/1XxCvSG2/bsod12.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/T2mHpyG6/bsod13.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/g2cMSNhz/bsod14.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/5t6s1ypD/bsod15.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/T1X0r9GX/bsod16.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/2yFwTZ8L/bsod17.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/8khtTqBk/bsod18.jpg
--
Usenet is so much more valuable, and pleasant, when people share solutions.










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  #2  
Old March 24th 20, 02:12 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?

Arlen Holder wrote:
1. I was getting BSODs even as the HP self diagnostics were coming clean.
(I tried all the repair options for days, but nothing worked.)
2. So I formatted the HDD & installed Windows 10 Pro perfectly clean.
Everything works fine for about an hour or so... and then BSOD!
3. They're not even the same BSOD, so I "think" it's the PC hardware.
But what?
4. Which hardware could it be (the HP diagnostics all report clean).
CPU, memory, motherboard ... HP diagnostics report all are clean.

Windows runs for an hour or so and then turns blue with a variety of BSODs,
where this is just the _latest_ sequence of BSODs after about an hour.
a. Memory management
b. System service exception
c. Kernel security check failure
d. Unexpected kernel mode trap

Here's a sequence, in order, of BSODs and reboots from today to help out:
https://i.postimg.cc/9Q4m7tfM/bsod01.jpg


Run the Windows memory test.

When BSOD error numbers are all over the place, you check memory.

When BSOD error numbers are "consistent from run to run",
then look for a root cause elsewhere.

https://www.howtogeek.com/260813/how...-for-problems/

Paul
  #3  
Old March 24th 20, 02:24 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sea
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Posts: 21
Default Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardwareis the problem?

On 03/23/2020 05:23 PM, Orlon wrote:

1. I was getting BSODs even as the HP self diagnostics were coming
clean.

...

Windows runs for an hour or so and then turns blue with a variety of
BSODs,

...

Here's a sequence, in order, of BSODs and reboots from today to help
out:


...

https://i.postimg.cc/zGpQ89NH/bsod11.jpg




It looks like bsod11 has been redacted, so we cannot help you.
  #4  
Old March 24th 20, 03:49 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardwareis the problem?

Sea wrote:
On 03/23/2020 05:23 PM, Orlon wrote:

1. I was getting BSODs even as the HP self diagnostics were coming
clean.

...

Windows runs for an hour or so and then turns blue with a variety of
BSODs,

...

Here's a sequence, in order, of BSODs and reboots from today to help
out:


...

https://i.postimg.cc/zGpQ89NH/bsod11.jpg




It looks like bsod11 has been redacted, so we cannot help you.


That's not going to make any difference.

Based on that page, I'd pull two sticks of
RAM out of there, and operate in dual channel mode
with one stick of RAM on each channel. I would place
the DIMM on the channel, in the "end slot".

Physically, that would look like this.

CPU ----X----4GB Channel0

----X----4GB Channel1

The motherboard manual doesn't always
label these well.

That's just to see if a stable config can be
quickly reached. That doesn't offer any guarantees.
It's for if you're not a methodical tester.

Always remove all AC power and wait 60 seconds,
before adding or removing DIMMs from a PC. This
gives time for the standby voltage to drain.

To give an example, my PC used to have half the slots
filled with DDR3-2400 RAM. It was perfectly perfectly
stable that way.

Then, I bought extra RAM and filled all slots. I had to
drop the clock down to DDR3-1866 before it stopped
throwing errors.

And there's nothing wrong with my RAM. It's just
a bus speed versus loading issue. That RAM is like
gold - it has an amazingly low error rate. But
my setup is speed sensitive, when the channels are full
(two per channel).

Paul
  #5  
Old March 24th 20, 10:13 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sea
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardwareis the problem?

On 03/23/2020 07:49 PM, Paul wrote:
Sea wrote:
On 03/23/2020 05:23 PM, Orlon wrote:

Here's a sequence, in order, of BSODs and reboots from today to help
out:

...
https://i.postimg.cc/zGpQ89NH/bsod11.jpg




It looks like bsod11 has been redacted, so we cannot help you.


That's not going to make any difference.


I wonder why he needed to hide something. What could it be...

  #6  
Old March 25th 20, 02:05 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardwareis the problem?

Sea wrote:
On 03/23/2020 07:49 PM, Paul wrote:
Sea wrote:
On 03/23/2020 05:23 PM, Orlon wrote:

Here's a sequence, in order, of BSODs and reboots from today to help
out:
...
https://i.postimg.cc/zGpQ89NH/bsod11.jpg



It looks like bsod11 has been redacted, so we cannot help you.


That's not going to make any difference.


I wonder why he needed to hide something. What could it be...


There might be a firmware version string there.
I don't think that's the drive serial number.

Paul
  #7  
Old March 25th 20, 04:35 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
n/a
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?

"Arlen Holder" wrote in message ...

1. I was getting BSODs even as the HP self diagnostics were coming clean.
(I tried all the repair options for days, but nothing worked.)
2. So I formatted the HDD & installed Windows 10 Pro perfectly clean.
Everything works fine for about an hour or so... and then BSOD!
3. They're not even the same BSOD, so I "think" it's the PC hardware.
But what?
4. Which hardware could it be (the HP diagnostics all report clean).
CPU, memory, motherboard ... HP diagnostics report all are clean.

Windows runs for an hour or so and then turns blue with a variety of BSODs,
where this is just the _latest_ sequence of BSODs after about an hour.
a. Memory management
b. System service exception
c. Kernel security check failure
d. Unexpected kernel mode trap

Here's a sequence, in order, of BSODs and reboots from today to help out:
https://i.postimg.cc/9Q4m7tfM/bsod01.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/DyNFnJcK/bsod02.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/zGRNBzdH/bsod03.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/9McHJGcy/bsod04.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/qq5fJSyG/bsod05.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/JnFKGLYt/bsod06.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/gk3FFSr3/bsod07.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Pq30z0Fn/bsod08.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/JnSgSZLT/bsod09.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/XYnhMnR0/bsod10.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/zGpQ89NH/bsod11.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/1XxCvSG2/bsod12.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/T2mHpyG6/bsod13.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/g2cMSNhz/bsod14.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/5t6s1ypD/bsod15.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/T1X0r9GX/bsod16.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/2yFwTZ8L/bsod17.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/8khtTqBk/bsod18.jpg


Arlen,

It does look like a memory problem - but it could be several other things
also:

1. Test memory. Removing two sticks and or swapping them is a good first
step. Should always start by removing and reinserting the memory sticks to
insure nothing is loose and/or that there is any corrosion on the contacts.
Running Windows memory test - well if it's a solid failure, it may find it.
You really need to run MemTest86 https://www.memtest86.com/ and run *all*
the tests. All memory manufacturers will tell you to run that if they don't
have their own diagnostic. Also, most memory have lifetime warranties.

I recently replaced 4 sticks (matched pairs) of Crucial memory on one of my
test systems which MemTest found were picking bits on two sticks - one in
each matched pair. Corsair overnighted replacements right after I sent them
the log from MemTest86. Windows memory test never once found a single
error even after running all night.

2. CPU. Be sure the CPU is seated and that it is not overheating. CPU fan
good?

3. Power supply. Check your BIOS settings to see if it shows the power
supply voltage readings and make sure they are within specs. Not unusual to
see the lower voltages flicker a bit but as a rule of thumb, all voltages
should be within 10% tolerance. May want to check that all power
connections are seated properly.

With the BSOD's all over the place, it's a good bet you have a bad memory
stick or maybe more. Test all 4 at same time, then remove two (1 channel)
and if it still fails test the other sticks to make sure you don't have an
intermittent bit. MemTest86 will test for that so read the info on the site
and run all the tests. If it fails, running specific tests will begin to
show a pattern - down to which bit(s) are failing.

--
Bob S.

  #8  
Old March 25th 20, 08:01 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?

On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 22:49:11 -0400, Paul wrote:

That's not going to make any difference.


Hi Paul,

I'm using that computer now, but it will likely BSOD in an hour or so,
where I don't even know if the Usenet posts will work at that's a ton of
setup in and of itself.

Based on that page, I'd pull two sticks of
RAM out of there, and operate in dual channel mode


Thanks for that suggestion, where I already reseated the four memory
modules, but I have not yet run with reduced memory (which I will do after
I run the tests described below).

Prior to posting I had run the HP memory test (and CPU and MB tests), but
it doesn't hurt to test s'more as I'm gonna remove RAM one by one after
this test, which I document below to benefit the Windows tribal record:
o How to Perform a RAM Check in Windows 10?
https://theitbros.com/ram-memory-check-windows-10/
o C:\Windows\System32\ bcdedit /bootsequence {memdiag} /remove
o Start Run mdsched Check for problems the next time I start my computer

I'll likely run the "extended" test, which is described as:
Basic V MATS+, INVC and SCHCKR
Standard V MATS+, INVC, SCHCKR, LRAND, SCHCKR3, Stride6, WINVC and WMATS+
Extended V MATS+, INVC, SCHCKR, LRAND, SCHCKR3, Stride6, WINVC, WMATS+,
CHCKR4, CHCKR8, Stride6, Stride38, WSCHCKR, WCHCKR3WStride-6 and ERAND

I'm not sure the advantage of disabling the cache but the pass count might
be important to set (0 until stopped, or up to 15 passes).

The results will be saved into
o Start Run eventvwr.msc
o Event Viewer (Local) Windows Logs System (MemoryDiagnostics-Results)

That came out clean with four 4GB memory sticks in their original slots.
"The Windows Memory Diagnostic tested the computer's memory and detected no errors"
(although I'm now stuck with a bottom-right Windows 10 test mode watermark!)

Moving forward, this article suggests additional sets of memory tests:
o How to Test Your Computers RAM for Problems
https://www.howtogeek.com/260813/how-to-test-your-computers-ram-for-problems/
"MemTest86 provides both an ISO image you can burn to a CD or DVD and a
USB image you can copy to a USB drive. Just run the .exe file included
with the download and provide a spare USB drive to create a bootable USB
drive. This will erase the contents of the drive!"

Where that reference suggests freeware memory tests using memtest86:
o Boots from a USB flash drive to test the RAM in your computer for faults.
https://www.memtest86.com/
And an open-source memtest86+ (for older PCs, such as mine happens to be):
o Memtest86+ is released under the terms of the Gnu Public License
http://www.memtest.org/

Then, I bought extra RAM and filled all slots. I had to
drop the clock down to DDR3-1866 before it stopped
throwing errors.


As you noted about RAM speed, the article also discussed that:
o How to Enable Intel XMP to Make Your RAM Run at Its Advertised Speeds
https://www.howtogeek.com/257766/how-to-enable-intel-xmp-to-make-your-ram-run-at-its-advertised-speeds/

How to run Microsoft Support Diagnostic Tool in Windows 10
https://www.thewindowsclub.com/how-to-run-microsoft-support-diagnostic-tool-in-windows-7

How to check your PC's full specifications on Windows 10
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-check-your-computer-full-specifications-windows-10

Since this is an AMD CPU, this applies:
"If you have an AMD CPU instead, you may be able to enable AMP,
AMD Memory Profiles. This is AMDs version of Intel's XMP."

That reference says to use CPU-Z to check the current memory timing:
o CPU-Z, System information software
https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

The motherboard manual doesn't always
label these well.


I haven't played with memory in decades so I don't remember, offhand, if I
can leave just one DIMM card in a slot, or if I need them in adjacent
pairs, or, if they have to be staggered - but I'll get to that soon.

(This was sent earlier in the day many hours ago but failed due to
VPN & Usenet script setup issues on the new machine being immense but
unrelated to this hardware problem.)
--
Every thread to Usenet should strive to add on-topic technical value.
  #9  
Old March 25th 20, 08:48 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?

Arlen Holder wrote:


I haven't played with memory in decades so I don't remember, offhand, if I
can leave just one DIMM card in a slot, or if I need them in adjacent
pairs, or, if they have to be staggered - but I'll get to that soon.

(This was sent earlier in the day many hours ago but failed due to
VPN & Usenet script setup issues on the new machine being immense but
unrelated to this hardware problem.)


We're in the era of Flex memory, so generally there
aren't a lot of rules now. Not so many rules as in the past.

At one time, and especially with AMD, the slot population
rules were more restricted. Dual channel mode only worked
in "128 bit mode", with the two sticks in equivalent slots
on each channel. I don't think AMD needs that any more.

CPU ----#1-----X Channel0 Can't do this on old AMD
I think it would "beep" for this.
-----X----#2 Channel1

You could test with one stick, two sticks, three sticks, four sticks.
Obviously, each mode has its own properties. Some combinations
and positions give better performance than others.

You can test two sticks in single channel mode, when using
the memtest.org utility, as a means to get 100% memory coverage.
By flipping the upper and lower stick while in single channel
mode, the upper stick (which gets 100% tested) gets to test
what used to be the lower stick.

CPU ----#1----#2 Channel0 run memtest, one pass

-----X-----x Channel1

CPU ----#2----#1 Channel0 run memtest, one pass
---------------------
-----X-----x Channel1 result = 100% memory coverage

Repeat sequence with stick #3 and #4.

Final test, in an attempt to get guarantee good performance
(assumes no stuck-at faults detected above) would be this setup.

CPU -----X----#1 Channel0 Test this way for a while, with
a variety of tests, to see whether
-----X----#2 Channel1 it's actually some other hardware
at fault. Make sure it's memtest
clean first though. It should be.

But for a quick test, I'd just try two sticks in dual channel,
for an immediate reward.

If you want to turn on XMP or its AMD equivalent, sure, you can.
It depends on whether you want to understand what mistake you
made with the original config, or, you just want it fixed.

Note that XMP or its AMD equivalent, the SPD table in the DIMM
generally only gives good results for one specific config. That's
two of four DIMM slots occupied, in dual channel mode. That's
virtually always in the table.

Other modes, such as having a table entry for four sticks in
dual channel mode, that happens much less often. This is
one reason my setup cannot and is not using XMP with my
"all slots full" setup. I had to hand-tune it. The older
I get, the less I look forward to that. So I just turned
mine down so it would work. And it's completely error free
at the selected speed, no screwing around. I've spent as long
as a week, on tuning RAM in the past.

There are some NVidia chipsets, where turning the memory clock down
is really the only practical working solution. Most motherboards
there are multiple knobs worth twisting.

Paul
  #10  
Old March 25th 20, 10:21 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 20
Default Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 21:05:34 -0400, Paul wrote:

There might be a firmware version string there.
I don't think that's the drive serial number.


Hi Paul,

Thanks for your always purposefully helpful adult intent on this newsgroup.

Moving forward, I received a bunch of BSODs today, one of which was new:
o KMODE EXCEPTION NOT HANDLED
https://i.postimg.cc/LsjxVzL2/bsod19.jpg

Where I even tried installing Ubuntu 18.04 as a dual boot, but it crashed
during the installation process, so that's more of an indcator that it's a
hardware problem, that has nothing, per se, to do with Windows 10 Pro.
https://i.postimg.cc/2S0WN3Yh/bsod20.jpg

So I went back to the new installation of Windows 10 Pro 1909:
https://i.postimg.cc/KYyt5Cms/bsod21.jpg

After trying to boot with no cards in the four memory slots:
https://i.postimg.cc/L4ZfrHh0/bsod22.jpg

Which, predictably, failed to boot (simply beeping).

So I reseated all four 4GB memory cards back in the slots they came from
(where I arbitrarily numbered the cards from left to right 1,2,3,4)
https://i.postimg.cc/y6bKSHPB/bsod23.jpg

And then I booted to the standard memory test as defined he
o How to Perform a RAM Check in Windows 10?
https://theitbros.com/ram-memory-check-windows-10/
o Start Run mdsched Check for problems the next time I start my computer

Which took quite a while to run on the 16GB of installed RAM:
https://i.postimg.cc/d3xZzxrd/bsod24.jpg

But which doesn't seem to have found any errors in the standard RAM tests:
https://i.postimg.cc/VvmczfBP/bsod25.jpg

And which was confirmed by a subsequent peek at
o Start Run eventvwr.msc
o Event Viewer (Local) Windows Logs System
(MemoryDiagnostics-Results)

Which reported, as expected, the memory passed (yet again) all tests:
https://i.postimg.cc/kMc0xdvD/bsod26.jpg
"The Windows Memory Diagnostic tested the computer's memory and found no errors"

Although that test somehow left a desktop watermark to deal with later:
https://i.postimg.cc/447LB7tK/bsod27.jpg
Test Mode
Windows 10 Pro
Build 18362.19h1_release.190318-1202

So I removed the two rightmost of the four cards arbitrarily labeled
1,2,3,4:
https://i.postimg.cc/J0G9Qp8t/bsod28.jpg

And I disconnected the built-in DVD/CD optical drive (to reduce the number
of variables since I wasn't booting to Ubuntu 18.04 any time soon).

And that's where I'm currently at in the testing procedure, where
apparently I had labeled the cards backwards, as they seem to be
4,3,2,1 left to right based on this boot message:
https://i.postimg.cc/bY4t9dHw/bsod29.jpg

I haven't touched a memory card in something like a decade or more, where I
forget if I must have a pair in the two adjacent slots, or if I can have
just one card at a time though.

Given most people think its the memory, I'll do further testing, where I
very much appreciate your kind, purposefully helpful, adult advice.
--
Usenet works best when adults post with purposefully helpful intentions.
  #11  
Old March 25th 20, 10:53 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?

On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 03:48:22 -0400, Paul wrote:

At one time, and especially with AMD, the slot population
rules were more restricted. Dual channel mode only worked
in "128 bit mode", with the two sticks in equivalent slots
on each channel. I don't think AMD needs that any more.


Hi Paul,

Thanks for your always purposefully helpful adult advice, where I'm not
exactly sure what a "channel" means since I haven't touched a memory stick
in more than a decade; but I'm currently running with two 4GB memory cards
set in the two black slots at left (which seem to be Memory Bank 3 & 4).
Full https://i.postimg.cc/y6bKSHPB/bsod23.jpg
Empty https://i.postimg.cc/L4ZfrHh0/bsod22.jpg
Banks 3 & 4 https://i.postimg.cc/J0G9Qp8t/bsod28.jpg
Boot confirmation https://i.postimg.cc/bY4t9dHw/bsod29.jpg

It seems to me that, even though the memory has consistently tested as
being OK, there are still a LOT of memory tests I can run (based on my
prior post where I haven't run all the memory test tools yet).

While nothing seems repeatable, one oddity is that when I immediately
reboot after a BSOD, it consistently provides a bunch of BDODs, but, if I
pull the power cord and wait for the LED on the motherboard to die out, it
seems to come up clean... so ... when it gets a BSOD... something... but
what... is "saved" somewhere as an error condition.

You can test two sticks in single channel mode, when using
the memtest.org utility, as a means to get 100% memory coverage.


I'll run the memory test again, with only the two sticks in the black slots
at left which appear to be memory banks 3 and 4.

But for a quick test, I'd just try two sticks in dual channel,
for an immediate reward.


I admit I don't really understand what you mean by single channel and dual
channel. I'll need to look that up to understand what you're trying to
suggest I try to do.

If you want to turn on XMP or its AMD equivalent, sure, you can.


I might do that later, but first I need to test the memory again, with only
the two left-most "black" (memory banks 3 & 4) and then the two right most
"blue" banks later (memory banks 1 & 2).

It depends on whether you want to understand what mistake you
made with the original config, or, you just want it fixed.


The only thing that I know happened is it first BSOD'd when I was cleaning
out the fur inside the fan on the CPU with bottled air and I was cleaing
out the fan on the NVIDIA card while the machine was running (which, in
hindsight, was a dumb idea).

There are some NVidia chipsets, where turning the memory clock down
is really the only practical working solution. Most motherboards
there are multiple knobs worth twisting.


A few days ago I removed the Nvidia graphics card, hoping that was the
problem (as the GPU fan was making noise anyway), but the problem has
persisted even with the Nvida graphics card wholly removed:
https://i.postimg.cc/SK6J1Z4c/bsod30.jpg

At the moment, I'm testing with two memory cards removed (bank 1 and bank 2
are both removed) and with the DVD/CD optical drive removed, and with the
Nvidia graphics card removed.

My next test will be to see if the AMD-based HP machine will boot with just
one memory card, which then I can test, one by one, each of the four memory
cards, to see if it's the memory (or something else).

Thanks again for your always purposefully helpful adult intent on Usenet.
--
Too bad this thread isn't archived by Google groups for future reference.
https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/oL7PTNKu/windows-10-bsod-indicates-a-hardware-problem-but-what-hardware-is-the-problem
  #12  
Old March 25th 20, 11:27 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 23:35:25 -0400, n/a wrote:

It does look like a memory problem - but it could be several other things
also.


Thanks for your purposefully helpful adult advice, where I agree that I
need to fully test the memory, but that it could be almost any hardware.

1. Test memory. Removing two sticks and or swapping them is a good first
step. Should always start by removing and reinserting the memory sticks to
insure nothing is loose and/or that there is any corrosion on the contacts.


I agree.
a. There was still a BSOD after re-inserting all memory so I'm currently
testing with only two memory cards in place (memory bank 3 & 4).

Running Windows memory test - well if it's a solid failure, it may find it.
You really need to run MemTest86 https://www.memtest86.com/ and run *all*
the tests. All memory manufacturers will tell you to run that if they don't
have their own diagnostic.


That's good advice, as these memory tests take a long time to run, so it's
good to know which memory tests are the best bang for the buck.

Also, most memory have lifetime warranties.


Interesting. where the memory cards are labeled "PATRIST Memory" & "Viper"
https://i.postimg.cc/Fs7S953Z/bsod31.jpg
PV38G 160C0KGN
PE000283
8GB 1600MHZ (10 - 10 - 10 - 27) DDR3
1.5V UDIMM (2x4GB) KIT

I recently replaced 4 sticks (matched pairs) of Crucial memory on one of my
test systems which MemTest found were picking bits on two sticks - one in
each matched pair. Corsair overnighted replacements right after I sent them
the log from MemTest86. Windows memory test never once found a single
error even after running all night.


As you noted, so far anyway, the Windows memtest shows zero errors:
https://i.postimg.cc/kMc0xdvD/bsod26.jpg

Although I only ran the STANDARD Windows memory tests so far:
https://i.postimg.cc/d3xZzxrd/bsod24.jpg

2. CPU. Be sure the CPU is seated and that it is not overheating. CPU fan
good?


The CPU fan seems to be good, nice & quiet, and certainly spinning.
http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList/Manual/mb_installation_guide.pdf

I haven't checked temperatures, but it's still winter so the house if
pretty chilly where if it's overheating, it would be an anomoly.

I could install the cpu-gpu-fan-temperature testing utilities, of which
there are many, but I'm not sure what value they may add to the mix.

Here's the list that I have in my archives, that I can run at any time:
o cpu-z
o geekbench4
o gpuz
o sandra
o speedfan
o tmeter
o crystaldiskinfo
o easus
o aomei

And for temperature I can install any of these which are in my archives:
o coretemp
o hwmonitor
o openhardwaremonitor
o realtemp
o speedfan

But I can only test one thing at a time...where the goal is to aim for
whatever it might most likely be (memory being the current key suspect).

3. Power supply. Check your BIOS settings to see if it shows the power
supply voltage readings and make sure they are within specs. Not unusual to
see the lower voltages flicker a bit but as a rule of thumb, all voltages
should be within 10% tolerance. May want to check that all power
connections are seated properly.


I have connected & re-connected all power connections, where the power
supply is admittedly anemic at only 300W total (it's an HP 585008-001)
Liteon model PS 5301-08HA.
--
Usenet is most useful when everyone is polite, helpful, and detailed.
  #13  
Old March 25th 20, 01:32 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardwareis the problem?

Arlen Holder wrote:


I have connected & re-connected all power connections, where the power
supply is admittedly anemic at only 300W total (it's an HP 585008-001)
Liteon model PS 5301-08HA.


Would you say the PSU is well suited to the load ?

Have you fitted an oversized video card that requires
a PCI Express power connection ? For example, in my Optiplex
refurb, I fitted a 13W video card :-) Wouldn't want to
tax the poor thing.

*******

One thing that caught my eye, is in your Event Viewer there
are some Kernel-Processor-Power events. Microsoft does not
seem to explain these. Geoff Chappell, normally a sharp guy,
really has nothing here.

https://www.geoffchappell.com/studie...rnel-power.htm

You also have a System Service Exception. I looked that one up
and the culprit for one poster was "MBAM.exe". What do you
use for an AV ?

It could be that Event 55 is related to the "jiggler".

Windows 10 has a malware feature, where if certain things are
being hooked in the OS, the OS shuts down instantly. In microseconds.
The intent is, if the reason is suspected to be "novel", the OS
just dumps, so that the pest cannot gain a foothold. If Windows Defender
had some idea what it was, and could "handle it", the system would
stay up instead.

A third-party AV can be "broken on its own merits", like when
a definition file is released that causes the wrong thing(s)
to be quarantined (a false positive).

It's also possible for AV products to be compromises by an
attacker.

If your memory testing is clean, it's time to move on, and
have a look at your installed software. Since the Event Viewer
entries aren't necessarily going to be helpful, you're partially
flying blind here.

For the System Service Exception, you might look for a process
name, such as the "MBAM.exe" or the like. Any breadcrumb
could be useful from that, if it has details. Because the
Kernel-Processor-Power ones seem to be top secret.

Paul
  #14  
Old March 25th 20, 04:59 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?

On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 08:32:49 -0400, Paul wrote:

I have connected & re-connected all power connections, where the power
supply is admittedly anemic at only 300W total (it's an HP 585008-001)
Liteon model PS 5301-08HA.


Would you say the PSU is well suited to the load ?


Hi Paul,

Thanks again for sticking with me and for being purposefully helpful, where
I appreciate that you're looking at things I may have easily overlooked,
like the power supply.

While I don't yet know what is causing this plethora of BSODs in just a day
a. Memory management
b. System service exception
c. Kernel security check failure
d. Unexpected kernel mode trap
e. Kmode exception not handled

That power supply is the original, and this machine ran, for years, with 3
hard drives, where I've pulled two out along with the Nvidia card, so it's
carrying less weight now than before, and it still BSOD'd.
https://i.postimg.cc/Jnjw37By/bsod32.jpg

I even disconnected the second monitor when I pulled the Nvidia card out.
https://i.postimg.cc/K85TsBjg/bsod33.jpg

So there's _nothing_ in any of the expansion slots, and only 1 HDD now
(and it was BSOD'ing even with just that, although not yet today).

And, I've pretty much eliminated Windows from being the cause of the BSOD
(by wiping it out and re-installing); and the fact it froze in the middle
of the Ubuntu install seems to indicate it's not software (where I was
installing Ubuntu 18.04 from an externally powered USB optical drive).

So far, the only hardware removal that "might" have had any positive effect
is the removal of half the memory cards, as it ran all night (I turned off
all the power management which is something you taught me long ago to do
for another computer that wouldn't subsequently wake up reliably).

Have you fitted an oversized video card that requires
a PCI Express power connection ?


Good question. But there's nothing in the box except one HDD (I removed two
others), and two memory cards (I removed two others). Even the built-in
DVD/CD optical drive is disconnected.

One thing that caught my eye, is in your Event Viewer there
are some Kernel-Processor-Power events.


You have a sharp eye, where there _are_ myriad event-viewer events, where
the problem always is which ones make sense & which don't.

After years of trying, I've given up trying to make sense of that Event
Viewer. No wonder the Indian Microsoft Support calls told everyone to look
there for proof that the Indians needed to wipe out our systems remotely.


You also have a System Service Exception. I looked that one up
and the culprit for one poster was "MBAM.exe".


Good question. I had to look up what mbam.exe is, where it seems to be a
malware bytes executable, which is odd, 'cuz I don't use any anti-virus
programs ever (I don't even know how to use the one that comes with
Windows).
https://www.file.net/process/mbam.exe.html

Sure, like everyone, I went through all the stages of the freeware stuff,
but eventually I concluded it slowed things down more than it ever caught
any viruses.

Since this is a new install, I don't even know where mbam.exe came from,
where I don't use Cortana search so I ran the classic "salonb" command:
c:\ dir /s/a/s/on/b c:\tmp\salonb.txt

I use gvim so it's easy enough to search for mbam.exe which isn't there.
For most people, they'd just pipe it to a "findstr" command though.

What do you use for an AV ?


I haven't used an anti-virus program in many years, where previously, I
think I had the Windows Defender set up, but I didn't even bother turning
it on yet on this new installation, nor the Windows firewall.

It could be that Event 55 is related to the "jiggler".


You put more faith in the Event Viewer than I ever did!
Do you really find the Event Viewer messages useful?

If your memory testing is clean, it's time to move on, and
have a look at your installed software.


I haven't "fully" tested the memory, but, the good news is that I wasn't
expecting the machine to be alive this morning, but it survived the night.

Time will tell as I'll start using it today and I'll leave it running as
all the power settings have been disabled (it's on max performance, which
you kindly showed me how to do long ago).

It's too soon to blame the two memory cards sitting on my desk, yet.
--
Usenet is a public polite potluck where adults gather to discuss things.
Too bad this thread isn't archived by Google groups for future reference.
https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/oL7PTNKu/windows-10-bsod-indicates-a-hardware-problem-but-what-hardware-is-the-problem
  #15  
Old March 25th 20, 05:11 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Arlen Holder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?

On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 15:59:30 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

Since this is a new install, I don't even know where mbam.exe came from,
where I don't use Cortana search so I ran the classic "salonb" command:
c:\ dir /s/a/s/on/b c:\tmp\salonb.txt


Correction on the "salonb" options (which are extremely useful!).

The dir salonb options I ran to look for mbam.exe were "/s/a/l/on/b":
cd c:\
dir /s/a/l/on/b c:\tmp\salonb.txt

Where, if I had wanted to, a findstr for the exe could have been attached:
dir /s/a/l/on/b c:\*.* | findstr "mbem.exe"

There was no mbem.exe extent.

It's a new installation of Windows 10 Pro, version 1909, so there isn't
even the Windows Defender running yet (as it's still almost fully default).
https://i.postimg.cc/KYyt5Cms/bsod21.jpg
--
Usenet is a place for adults to gather to politely discuss technical stuff.
 




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