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#31
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
In article ,
Bob I thought we'd be interested in the following... Interesting concept. A free operating system, against a operating system you have to pay for, equals no choice. And how many people do you know who would venture into Open Source without batting an eyelid? For the vast majority of people, *nix might as well be on another planet, so that pretty much does equal no choice. -- My reply address is invalid. Please post replies to the group. Messages from Google Groups are set to auto ignore. |
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#32
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Related question, is the US version of Vista different from UK version?
I have a sister in the US, can I get her to buy me a copy there and use it here? -- Kenny Cargill "Don Smith" wrote in message ... Eric wrote: "Gordon" wrote in message ... According to this BBC page http://www.microsoft.com/uk/press/executives/ users in the Uk are going to be ripped off yet again by being charged DOUBLE the prices charged in USA. Let's boycott Vista in the UK until this rip-off culture stops. PS - if anyone has an email address for the Sales Director of MS UK I would like to know so that I can ask him to comment on this. I hear the price of a German car is higher in the US than in Germany. What's up with that? I hear those crazy people want us to pay shipping and import expenses too. I hear we pay $70 in the US for a jacket they can get for $5 in S Korea. What's up with that? If you don't like the price they charge in your country, come to our country and buy it and take it back with you. If they charge $99 here and 99 pounds there, be sure to file another complaint if the value of a dollar exceeds the value of the pound. Make sure you factor in the cost to get the product from here to there, as well as the additional regulations costs to Microsoft to operate in Europe. Either all the above or learn about duties and shipping costs. You might also think about what happens to a company if they don't make a profit and pay employees! I.e. THINK! |
#33
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Bob I wrote:
Gordon wrote: "Bob I" wrote in message ... Gordon wrote: "Eric" wrote in message ... I hear the price of a German car is higher in the US than in Germany. What's up with that? So don't buy a German car. there's plenty of other choices. Microsoft's actions over the last 15 years have ensured there IS no other choice for the vast majority of people - it's called "monopoly"..... Interesting concept. A free operating system, against a operating system you have to pay for, equals no choice. Certainly up until recently, yes. Microsoft's actions ensured that OEMs, which is where the vast majority of machines are sold, would suffer drastic financial penalties if they sold machines with either no OS or a competing one..... Actually, the OEM's were eligible for greater discounts based on the various conditions contained in their agreements. "Penalties" is implying that they had to pay additional sums. Actually the OEMs where held to pay an "Operating System" royalty for each computer shipped, whether or not the computer had an operating system or not and whether or not it even held a Microsoft operating system. If, for example, IBM wanted to ship a new computer with OS2 they had to nonetheless pay Microsoft a fee for DOS or Windows, even though no Microsoft products were installed, thus inflating the cost of the non Microsoft pc and making it harder to compete. The stick used by Microsoft to hold the OEM's to the agreement was that their access to DOS/Windows would be ended if they refused to cooperate. Computer manufacturers who wanted to sell Windows based computers couldn't sell other computers without paying Microsoft anyway, so Microsoft was being paid for BEOS, UNIX or OS2 licenses! To protest meant that the OEM was in peril of loosing access to DOS/Windows thus loosing a large percentage of its computer sales. Many OEMs simply decided to not even offer non Microsoft computers, not because they didn't want to sell them or not because there was no requests from customers but because the risk of having a dispute with Microsoft over the licensing was too onerous to consider. Part of the whole scheme was the now infamous unlawful "Non Disclosure Agreements" and the unreasonably long contract terms that Microsoft had the OEM's bound to. John |
#34
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
"Gordon" wrote in message ... "Eric" wrote in message ... OEM price discount is a gift from MS to hardware vendors who go through the trouble of installing the MS OS on their hardware for sale as a package deal to have systems that users can take out of a box, plug in, turn on, and start using. BWAHAHAHAHA! You realy have got MS right up your backside, haven't you! OEM price discount is NOT a "gift" it was a very effective method of ensuring that OEMs did NOT sell any machines with either no OS or a non-windows OS! Why do you think that up until recently it was impossible to buy a machine from an OEM with no OS on it at all? Surely THAT wouldn't hurt MS, now would it? Eh? What planet are you on? It's been very possible for many years now to buy a PC with no OS. It is just cheaper to buy a PC with an OEM Windows version installed than to buy a PC with no OS and a regular Windows version. It is still cheaper to use Linux, but most people don't know how to install Linux and set it up or don't want to bother. |
#35
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Kenny wrote:
Related question, is the US version of Vista different from UK version? I have a sister in the US, can I get her to buy me a copy there and use it here? Yes, you can and it will work just fine. Alias |
#36
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Eric wrote:
It's been very possible for many years now to buy a PC with no OS. True. It is just cheaper to buy a PC with an OEM Windows version installed than to buy a PC with no OS and a regular Windows version. Not necessarily. I have all my computers custom-built for me by a local builder. I can buy an OEM copy of Windows from him (which he will install) or I can buy a copy (either OEM or retail) elsewhere and install it myself. I always prefer to buy the computer without an operating system and buy a retail upgrade copy of Windows elsewhere. The retail upgrade version is hardly any more expensive than the OEM version, and is greatly preferable in my view, since it comes without the restictions of the OEM version. -- Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User Please reply to the newsgroup |
#37
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
"Alias" wrote in message ... Eric wrote: "Gordon" wrote in message ... "Eric" wrote in message ... I hear the price of a German car is higher in the US than in Germany. What's up with that? So don't buy a German car. there's plenty of other choices. Microsoft's actions over the last 15 years have ensured there IS no other choice for the vast majority of people - it's called "monopoly"..... There are other choices. You don't have to buy Vista. Don't worry, I won't until it has at least SP2, if then. I won't either, unless it comes with a new PC, whenever I can afford one. I'm still running WinME at home. You can buy a Mac, Cost prohibitive, especially when you already have a decent computer. Not an issue, if you're discussing the price of OEM Vista (only supposed to be sold with a new PC), and if as they say Macs can now run practically any software that is written for the PC. or a PC with an old OS or none at all. How does one run a PC with "none at all"? You install your own ie Linux. You can still run Windows 95/98/ME/2K/XP. I do run XP. Is that because you don't see a need to upgrade to Vista right away, or because you're too busy crying about the cost of it? You can run Linux. I run that too. Then Vista cost is not an issue. You can write your own OS. (I bet it will take more than 200 pounds worth of your time) Now you're being silly. Hey, that's what Bill Gates did so many years ago. It is possible, but most people don't want to go to that trouble, so they pay Microsoft whatever they ask. It's the same reason most people don't even consider Linux, too much trouble to learn how to set it up, when the MS OS is all set up for them. How many more options do you need? Again, did you factor in shipping costs? Negligible as they are pressed in Ireland. OEM Version? Are they shipping the software with the hardware? Is the hardware vendor in the UK? It would be even more if they ship the OS from Ireland to the US and back to the UK. did you figure in the expense amount of legislation against MS in Europe? Not applicable. I hear MS was having antitrust problems in Europe. I don't know if laws or lawsuits over there would affect their prices just for over there, didn't bother to ask MS, just speculating why they might be doubled. would you complain if they simply didn't bother to convert ($99 vs 99 pounds), if the dollar value was equal to or greater than a pound? With Bush's fiscal and warring policies, that will never happen. Who said anything about Bush? The USD used to be worth more than the pound. Bush will be out of office in 2 years. The UK likes war too. Bush and his Congress have the budget back on track. They've cut the deficit in half, and plan to eliminate it by 2010. would it help if you just go convert some of your pounds into dollars before trying to buy it? What and pay the currency conversion on top of the high price for Vista? No, and pay currency conversion instead of the high price of Vista. Does that require a trip to the US? I'd bet the $100USD extra you're paying for Vista is less than a round trip to come to the US and get a copy. do your internet purchases have to be in pounds? Yes, they do. The major companies like MS, Adobe, etc., now configure their web sites to know where you are from and will not let you buy anything in dollars unless, of course, you're in the USA. Alias Can you buy it from the US in USD and ship it to the UK? Can someone in the UK get a US address (PO Box), or do they check your location by your IP? Maybe just make a friend in the US and have them buy it for you, or sign up for an exchange program. Is this high priced UK version the same as the US version? Where do you get that pound symbol? Do they have different keyboards, or is there a special program or key combination/function for that? |
#38
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote in message ... Eric wrote: It's been very possible for many years now to buy a PC with no OS. True. It is just cheaper to buy a PC with an OEM Windows version installed than to buy a PC with no OS and a regular Windows version. Not necessarily. I have all my computers custom-built for me by a local builder. I can buy an OEM copy of Windows from him (which he will install) or I can buy a copy (either OEM or retail) elsewhere and install it myself. I always prefer to buy the computer without an operating system and buy a retail upgrade copy of Windows elsewhere. The retail upgrade version is hardly any more expensive than the OEM version, and is greatly preferable in my view, since it comes without the restictions of the OEM version. -- Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User Please reply to the newsgroup The last OS I bought was Windows ME, maybe 5 years ago, when I believe the full price was $99. I got it with the purchase of a new PC for $50, when they were otherwise going to sell me the PC with no OS (and they installed the OS while I waited, even though I know how, to save me the trouble). The same kind of deals exist for XP/Vista, except with XP they added the registration process that only allows you to install on one PC at a time. Then they added a special process for OEM versions that only allowed you to install it on one PC (can't use the same software on another PC even if you want to remove it from the first PC). So the OEM version is generally cheaper if you never plan to reuse it. Upgrade version is not an option if you're going from a 32-bit OS to a 64-bit. OEM is much cheaper than full version for anyone who doesn't have any previous MS OS. |
#39
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Eric wrote:
"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote in message ... Eric wrote: It's been very possible for many years now to buy a PC with no OS. True. It is just cheaper to buy a PC with an OEM Windows version installed than to buy a PC with no OS and a regular Windows version. Not necessarily. I have all my computers custom-built for me by a local builder. I can buy an OEM copy of Windows from him (which he will install) or I can buy a copy (either OEM or retail) elsewhere and install it myself. I always prefer to buy the computer without an operating system and buy a retail upgrade copy of Windows elsewhere. The retail upgrade version is hardly any more expensive than the OEM version, and is greatly preferable in my view, since it comes without the restictions of the OEM version. -- Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User Please reply to the newsgroup The last OS I bought was Windows ME, maybe 5 years ago, when I believe the full price was $99. I got it with the purchase of a new PC for $50, when they were otherwise going to sell me the PC with no OS (and they installed the OS while I waited, even though I know how, to save me the trouble). The same kind of deals exist for XP/Vista, except with XP they added the registration process that only allows you to install on one PC at a time. First, it's called "activation," not "registration." Second, they didn't add that requirement, it has always been there since at least Windows 3.i. The only thing new in XP is that there's an enforcement mechanism. Then they added a special process for OEM versions that only allowed you to install it on one PC (can't use the same software on another PC even if you want to remove it from the first PC). That's also long been the rule for Microsoft OEM software. It's the main reason I'm against using OEM copies. So the OEM version is generally cheaper if you never plan to reuse it. Only slightly, if it all. Even if it costs slightly more, a retail Upgrade version is worth it, in my opinion, because you don't have to live with the OEM version restrictions. Upgrade version is not an option if you're going from a 32-bit OS to a 64-bit. That's correct. OEM is much cheaper than full version for anyone who doesn't have any previous MS OS. Anyone who doesn't have a qualifying operating system for an upgrade to Windows XP can buy a used copy of Windows 98 very inexpensively, for example on eBay. The price advantage of OEM versions vanish or come very close to vanishing. As far as I'm concerned, OEM versions are never good values because of their restrictions--especially the restriction that ties them permanently to the first computer they are installed on. -- Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User Please reply to the newsgroup |
#40
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Gordon wrote: "Bob I" wrote in message ... Gordon wrote: "Bob I" wrote in message ... Gordon wrote: "Bob I" wrote in message .. . Gordon wrote: "Eric" wrote in message .. . I hear the price of a German car is higher in the US than in Germany. What's up with that? So don't buy a German car. there's plenty of other choices. Microsoft's actions over the last 15 years have ensured there IS no other choice for the vast majority of people - it's called "monopoly"..... Interesting concept. A free operating system, against a operating system you have to pay for, equals no choice. Certainly up until recently, yes. Microsoft's actions ensured that OEMs, which is where the vast majority of machines are sold, would suffer drastic financial penalties if they sold machines with either no OS or a competing one..... Actually, the OEM's were eligible for greater discounts based on the various conditions contained in their agreements. "Penalties" is implying that they had to pay additional sums. Well I suppose you /could/ look at it as a withdrawing of discount - either way it would have had a drastic impact on the bottom line - and that would have happened if they had sold just ONE machine..... So, you agree that OEMs did it to gain a financial advantage over their competitors. No, OEMs were shanghied into it by MS..... the way it worked was like this: OEM to MS: We would like to sell Windows OS on our PCs MS to OEM: Fine - we will sell you OEM licences as long as you agree to take far more than you need, but at a ridiculously low price. IF however, you deign to sell just one machine with either no OS or a competing one (ie Linux) then that ridiculously low price suddenly becomes ridiculously LARGE.....and you must still buy all the licences you contracted to buy.... That is why, up until recently, it was impossible to buy a machine from any of the large OEMs with either no OS or one other than Windows... Actually you are confusing OS licensing with the browser wars pricing inducements. Some links and discussion at link below. http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/...m/602006680831 |
#41
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Tx2 wrote: In article , Bob I thought we'd be interested in the following... Interesting concept. A free operating system, against a operating system you have to pay for, equals no choice. And how many people do you know who would venture into Open Source without batting an eyelid? For the vast majority of people, *nix might as well be on another planet, so that pretty much does equal no choice. Humm, that seems to be a common complaint. Prepackaged has it's costs. So, either learn to cook, or quit carping about the restaurant menu prices. |
#42
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
"Eric" wrote in message
... Eh? What planet are you on? It's been very possible for many years now to buy a PC with no OS. yes, of course it has, BUT NOT FROM AN OEM...... |
#43
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Gordon wrote:
"Eric" wrote in message ... Eh? What planet are you on? It's been very possible for many years now to buy a PC with no OS. yes, of course it has, BUT NOT FROM AN OEM...... No, that's still not true. Change that sentence to "It's been very possible for many years now to buy a PC with no operating system, but not from one of the *big national* OEMs," and then it becomes true. Dell, Gateway, etc., are not the only OEMs. There are *lots* of small, local, mom-and-pop OEMs. -- Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User Please reply to the newsgroup |
#44
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Office* & win* / Vista English versions are the same, in any English
speaking country, eg US, UK, Aus, NZ etc You can purchase either from US online retailers that offer overseas shipping. (there are many) A US credit/charge card is not required. Shipping cost is not exorbitant and there is no UK customs duty on software. I have purchased both HW & Software from the US "Kenny" wrote in message ... Related question, is the US version of Vista different from UK version? I have a sister in the US, can I get her to buy me a copy there and use it here? -- Kenny Cargill "Don Smith" wrote in message ... Eric wrote: "Gordon" wrote in message ... According to this BBC page http://www.microsoft.com/uk/press/executives/ users in the Uk are going to be ripped off yet again by being charged DOUBLE the prices charged in USA. Let's boycott Vista in the UK until this rip-off culture stops. PS - if anyone has an email address for the Sales Director of MS UK I would like to know so that I can ask him to comment on this. I hear the price of a German car is higher in the US than in Germany. What's up with that? I hear those crazy people want us to pay shipping and import expenses too. I hear we pay $70 in the US for a jacket they can get for $5 in S Korea. What's up with that? If you don't like the price they charge in your country, come to our country and buy it and take it back with you. If they charge $99 here and 99 pounds there, be sure to file another complaint if the value of a dollar exceeds the value of the pound. Make sure you factor in the cost to get the product from here to there, as well as the additional regulations costs to Microsoft to operate in Europe. Either all the above or learn about duties and shipping costs. You might also think about what happens to a company if they don't make a profit and pay employees! I.e. THINK! |
#45
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Boycott Vista in the UK!
Eric wrote:
"Gordon" wrote in message ... According to this BBC page http://www.microsoft.com/uk/press/executives/ users in the Uk are going to be ripped off yet again by being charged DOUBLE the prices charged in USA. Let's boycott Vista in the UK until this rip-off culture stops. PS - if anyone has an email address for the Sales Director of MS UK I would like to know so that I can ask him to comment on this. I hear the price of a German car is higher in the US than in Germany. What's up with that? I hear those crazy people want us to pay shipping and import expenses too. I hear we pay $70 in the US for a jacket they can get for $5 in S Korea. What's up with that? So you think it costs a couple hundred dollars to ship a CD from the U.S. to the U.K.? Just who' s the "crazy" one hear? -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell |
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