Bought the Upgrade... took it back.....Win7 - Win10 - Win7

Decided to take the plunge on my Win7Pro. Fully backed up. First
dozen attempts all met with errors that caused the Win10 upgrade
process to fail. Underlying problem seemed to revolve around
"permissions". When thru all the official fixes I could track down
from MS. Also ran a complete total virus scan and found nothing.
Eventually found a site called tweaking.com with a handy dandy program
to fix all sorts of things including resetting permissions. Ran that
and Win10 finally was happy to install. Once installed I was
presented with a very similar look as I'd had with Win7. Except that
windows had the more minimal look of "tiles". I found nothing to
complain about as far as finding my way around the system. I still
feel the new "tiles" look for windows makes it harder to tell where
the active window ends and inactive ones start but it looked better
then how my trial of Win8 looked.

Contrary to what I expected, Win10 never tried to trick me into
creating a MS account. It never offered that during the installation
but only later when I opened the One Drive. One Drive said I'd have
to have an account so I bailed.

Unfortunately, I found that some of my programs, particularly my
Pinnacle Video editing program, seemed to have broken links or missing
dlls or something because periodically something would try and run and
not be there and an error message would pop up saying "can't
find.....". I reinstalled Pinnacle and still got some odd behavior.

I noticed that the new default for looking at pictures was a brain
dead program with almost none of the functionality of the "windows
Live photo viewer" I was using on Win7. I don't understand why MS
would provide such a crappy photo viewing app when the windows live
photo app is still a choice. I went into the defaults and changed it
back to the live viewer.

So, because of the "can't find....." errors I rolled the system back
thru the provided "restore Win7" routine built into Win10. The
restore initially seemed to have worked but I discovered very soon
that somehow the process I'd gone thru still managed to break a few
links or something. Even after the rollback I was now getting more of
those "can't find... " errors.

I can't be sure the blame is Win10, it could be the fix up program
from tweaking.com that made it possible to run the update actually
created the errors by fixing something that wasn't broke. No way to
know.

In any case, now my rolled back to Win7 was not quite right and
throwing errors so I did a complete restore using Acronis to a backup
from the day before I started the whole upgrade process and the system
is back to normal.

My final takeaway is that had these little problems not popped up I
would have stayed with Win10. It was easy to use, looked a bit
different but OK and I'm sure with time I'd get used to the changed
look. I expect to replace this computer sometime within the next 6
months and will go to Win10 when I do.

On 04/12/2015 18:07, Ashton Crusher wrote:
Decided to take the plunge on my Win7Pro. Fully backed up. First
dozen attempts all met with errors that caused the Win10 upgrade
process to fail. Underlying problem seemed to revolve around
"permissions". When thru all the official fixes I could track down
from MS. Also ran a complete total virus scan and found nothing.
Eventually found a site called tweaking.com with a handy dandy program
to fix all sorts of things including resetting permissions. Ran that
and Win10 finally was happy to install. Once installed I was
presented with a very similar look as I'd had with Win7. Except that
windows had the more minimal look of "tiles". I found nothing to
complain about as far as finding my way around the system. I still
feel the new "tiles" look for windows makes it harder to tell where
the active window ends and inactive ones start but it looked better
then how my trial of Win8 looked.

Contrary to what I expected, Win10 never tried to trick me into
creating a MS account. It never offered that during the installation
but only later when I opened the One Drive. One Drive said I'd have
to have an account so I bailed.

Unfortunately, I found that some of my programs, particularly my
Pinnacle Video editing program, seemed to have broken links or missing
dlls or something because periodically something would try and run and
not be there and an error message would pop up saying "can't
find.....". I reinstalled Pinnacle and still got some odd behavior.

I noticed that the new default for looking at pictures was a brain
dead program with almost none of the functionality of the "windows
Live photo viewer" I was using on Win7. I don't understand why MS
would provide such a crappy photo viewing app when the windows live
photo app is still a choice. I went into the defaults and changed it
back to the live viewer.

So, because of the "can't find....." errors I rolled the system back
thru the provided "restore Win7" routine built into Win10. The
restore initially seemed to have worked but I discovered very soon
that somehow the process I'd gone thru still managed to break a few
links or something. Even after the rollback I was now getting more of
those "can't find... " errors.

I can't be sure the blame is Win10, it could be the fix up program
from tweaking.com that made it possible to run the update actually
created the errors by fixing something that wasn't broke. No way to
know.

In any case, now my rolled back to Win7 was not quite right and
throwing errors so I did a complete restore using Acronis to a backup
from the day before I started the whole upgrade process and the system
is back to normal.

My final takeaway is that had these little problems not popped up I
would have stayed with Win10. It was easy to use, looked a bit
different but OK and I'm sure with time I'd get used to the changed
look. I expect to replace this computer sometime within the next 6
months and will go to Win10 when I do.

If I were you, I would have continued using Windows 10 until it is
activated (Generally it is instant but it is a good idea to give 24
hours run) after which you could perform a clean install using the disk
(Windows ISO is available for DVD/USB). Of course you will need all
your original disks and serial numbers for applications that you use.

Windows 10 is pretty robust if you take time with it and configure it to
suit your style.



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Good Guy wrote:

Windows 10 is pretty robust if you take time with it and configure it to
suit your style.


I never had a real problem with either Windows 8/8.1 or 10. I did go
back to 7 from 8.1, but only out of superficial desire to have the
cleaner version. The upgrade to 10 was painless, as well as the
new-build upgrade. I see no reason not to keep using it, personally.

--
Joel Crump

Ashton Crusher wrote:
Decided to take the plunge on my Win7Pro. Fully backed up.

In any case, now my rolled back to Win7 was not quite right and
throwing errors so I did a complete restore using Acronis to a backup
from the day before I started the whole upgrade process and the system
is back to normal.

It's a "SmartPhone" OS, for the parts that
are dumbed down. If you'd looked at the provided
Mail or People tools, you would have got a similar
impression.

It has 50 toggle switches for permissions, in the same
way that a SmartPhone does.

In some cases, you can drag in things from other OSes.
I put a copy of calc.exe from another OS, into Win10
and pinned it to the task bar. Now I've got a calc
I can use (for hex conversion etc).

Since it runs legacy programs, you can make the setup
quite comfortable by adding enough junk and ignoring
the new bits.

The migration process throws away things it doesn't like,
and doesn't bother to put them back. The Upgrade keeps
Windows.old, but that isn't a means to backup Program Files.
And that's why doing your own backups before the conversion,
is super-important.

The OS is constantly pestering you when it first starts up,
and I don't think I could stand to work in it full time. I need
an OS where I'm in control, and maintenance happens when I
tell it to.

To give an example, yesterday I started doing a backup
with Macrium. The OS proceeded to install the tiny
10586.17 update just after I had started it running.
And while I know VSS has the details covered
(VSS only has a ten second window where it is
vulnerable), I did a second backup after the first
was finished and the "maintenance" had settled down.
I wouldn't have needed to waste the extra time, if
I was using another OS.

Paul

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 18:20:09 +0000, Good Guy
wrote:

On 04/12/2015 18:07, Ashton Crusher wrote:
Decided to take the plunge on my Win7Pro. Fully backed up. First
dozen attempts all met with errors that caused the Win10 upgrade
process to fail. Underlying problem seemed to revolve around
"permissions". When thru all the official fixes I could track down
from MS. Also ran a complete total virus scan and found nothing.
Eventually found a site called tweaking.com with a handy dandy program
to fix all sorts of things including resetting permissions. Ran that
and Win10 finally was happy to install. Once installed I was
presented with a very similar look as I'd had with Win7. Except that
windows had the more minimal look of "tiles". I found nothing to
complain about as far as finding my way around the system. I still
feel the new "tiles" look for windows makes it harder to tell where
the active window ends and inactive ones start but it looked better
then how my trial of Win8 looked.

Contrary to what I expected, Win10 never tried to trick me into
creating a MS account. It never offered that during the installation
but only later when I opened the One Drive. One Drive said I'd have
to have an account so I bailed.

Unfortunately, I found that some of my programs, particularly my
Pinnacle Video editing program, seemed to have broken links or missing
dlls or something because periodically something would try and run and
not be there and an error message would pop up saying "can't
find.....". I reinstalled Pinnacle and still got some odd behavior.

I noticed that the new default for looking at pictures was a brain
dead program with almost none of the functionality of the "windows
Live photo viewer" I was using on Win7. I don't understand why MS
would provide such a crappy photo viewing app when the windows live
photo app is still a choice. I went into the defaults and changed it
back to the live viewer.

So, because of the "can't find....." errors I rolled the system back
thru the provided "restore Win7" routine built into Win10. The
restore initially seemed to have worked but I discovered very soon
that somehow the process I'd gone thru still managed to break a few
links or something. Even after the rollback I was now getting more of
those "can't find... " errors.

I can't be sure the blame is Win10, it could be the fix up program
from tweaking.com that made it possible to run the update actually
created the errors by fixing something that wasn't broke. No way to
know.

In any case, now my rolled back to Win7 was not quite right and
throwing errors so I did a complete restore using Acronis to a backup
from the day before I started the whole upgrade process and the system
is back to normal.

My final takeaway is that had these little problems not popped up I
would have stayed with Win10. It was easy to use, looked a bit
different but OK and I'm sure with time I'd get used to the changed
look. I expect to replace this computer sometime within the next 6
months and will go to Win10 when I do.

If I were you, I would have continued using Windows 10 until it is
activated (Generally it is instant but it is a good idea to give 24
hours run) after which you could perform a clean install using the disk
(Windows ISO is available for DVD/USB). Of course you will need all
your original disks and serial numbers for applications that you use.

Windows 10 is pretty robust if you take time with it and configure it to
suit your style.

That is my plan for later this year when I get a new machine and this
one moves down the food chain. I'll rebuild it from scratch with a
clean Win10 install. To save the cost of a win10 it means I have to
buy my new machine by next summer. Great excuse to spend money!!.

On 12/5/2015 2:07 AM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Unfortunately, I found that some of my programs, particularly my
Pinnacle Video editing program, seemed to have broken links or missing
dlls or something because periodically something would try and run and
not be there and an error message would pop up saying "can't
find.....". I reinstalled Pinnacle and still got some odd behavior.

You might need to install older versions of dotNet Runtime (2.0, 3.x)

--
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/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you!
/( _ )\ (Fedora release 23) Linux 4.2.6-301.fc23.x86_64
^ ^ 15:15:01 up 4 days 7:38 0 users load average: 0.00 0.01 0.05
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On 12/5/2015 3:23 PM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
On 12/5/2015 2:07 AM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Unfortunately, I found that some of my programs, particularly my
Pinnacle Video editing program, seemed to have broken links or missing
dlls or something because periodically something would try and run and
not be there and an error message would pop up saying "can't
find.....". I reinstalled Pinnacle and still got some odd behavior.

You might need to install older versions of dotNet Runtime (2.0, 3.x)


BTW, you are not alone:

https://www.google.com.hk/search?q=P...w=1569&bih=847

--
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/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you!
/( _ )\ (Fedora release 23) Linux 4.2.6-301.fc23.x86_64
^ ^ 15:30:01 up 4 days 7:53 0 users load average: 0.00 0.01 0.05
�借貸! ��騙! ��交! �打交! �打劫! �自殺! 請考慮綜� (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa

On 04/12/2015 21:43, Paul wrote:
....
VSS only has a ten second window where it is
vulnerable

Is it the first 10 seconds when a backup is started?

edevils wrote:
On 04/12/2015 21:43, Paul wrote:
...
VSS only has a ten second window where it is
vulnerable

Is it the first 10 seconds when a backup is started?

There is a ten second period, at the start of the backup,
where VSS seeks to "quiesce" the file system. If a
file is saved in that window, you don't know whether
it'll be caught properly in this backup, or in the
next backup. After the ten second interval, there would
be no uncertainty - any newly saved files won't be
caught in the (currently running) backup.

It's possible for a file to be corrupted in a backup,
so the VSS isn't guaranteed to be perfect. But most of
the time it's going to be fine. I've never seen a problem
here. But I don't try and flip over to some other tool
and furiously start saving new files while the VSS phase
is starting up... I think with a little effort, you
could script an attempt at a destructive test case,
just to see how bulletproof it is.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/...(v=ws.10).aspx

Writers: Preventing Data Inconsistencies

When applications and services are running, the writer responds
to signals provided by the Volume Shadow Copy Service interface
to allow applications to prepare and quiesce their data stores
for shadow copy creation and to ensure that no writes occur on
the volume while the shadow copy is being created. (During quiescence,
applications make data on the disk consistent. For example, an
application might flush its buffers to disk or write out in-memory
data to disk.)

That's the kind of time window I'm thinking of.

Note that, when that article refers to "write out in-memory data",
Windows 10 is capable of having a *tremendous* amount of data
in-memory. I've seen as much as 6.5GB of data in memory, on its
way out to the hard drive. There is no way that could be
cleared in a 10 second quiescence window by flushing. It
takes the machine around a minute for that to finish
dribbling out to disk. I've never tried to run a backup
when the Win10 machine is in a state like that. That
feature of Win10 (having that huge queue in memory)
just doesn't make sense. The file may be memory
mapped or something, and not actually be a system
file cache as such - and then such behavior is a
fault caused by the application developer and not Microsoft.

http://s12.postimg.org/7vcgdswz1/Wri...ng_Example.gif

Paul

On 06/12/2015 00:39, Paul wrote:
edevils wrote:
On 04/12/2015 21:43, Paul wrote:
...
VSS only has a ten second window where it is
vulnerable

Is it the first 10 seconds when a backup is started?

There is a ten second period, at the start of the backup,
where VSS seeks to "quiesce" the file system. If a
file is saved in that window, you don't know whether
it'll be caught properly in this backup, or in the
next backup. After the ten second interval, there would
be no uncertainty - any newly saved files won't be
caught in the (currently running) backup.

It's possible for a file to be corrupted in a backup,
so the VSS isn't guaranteed to be perfect. But most of
the time it's going to be fine. I've never seen a problem
here. But I don't try and flip over to some other tool
and furiously start saving new files while the VSS phase
is starting up... I think with a little effort, you
could script an attempt at a destructive test case,
just to see how bulletproof it is.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/...(v=ws.10).aspx

Writers: Preventing Data Inconsistencies

When applications and services are running, the writer responds
to signals provided by the Volume Shadow Copy Service interface
to allow applications to prepare and quiesce their data stores
for shadow copy creation and to ensure that no writes occur on
the volume while the shadow copy is being created. (During quiescence,
applications make data on the disk consistent. For example, an
application might flush its buffers to disk or write out in-memory
data to disk.)

That's the kind of time window I'm thinking of.

Note that, when that article refers to "write out in-memory data",
Windows 10 is capable of having a *tremendous* amount of data
in-memory. I've seen as much as 6.5GB of data in memory, on its
way out to the hard drive. There is no way that could be
cleared in a 10 second quiescence window by flushing. It
takes the machine around a minute for that to finish
dribbling out to disk. I've never tried to run a backup
when the Win10 machine is in a state like that. That
feature of Win10 (having that huge queue in memory)
just doesn't make sense. The file may be memory
mapped or something, and not actually be a system
file cache as such - and then such behavior is a
fault caused by the application developer and not Microsoft.

http://s12.postimg.org/7vcgdswz1/Wri...ng_Example.gif

Paul


Thanks for the explanation!
Like you, I've never seen problems with Macrium image (and I do verify
them). However, like you, I wouldn't start a backup with many Windows
programs running in the background. Usually I would close everything and
reboot before starting the backup. To be on the safest side, I even boot
to Macrium with a rescue media. I've now added a Macrium "PE" entry to
the Windows boot menu, so I can boot to the Macrium PE directly (without
need for rescue media) and backup from there, rather than in Windows.