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#181
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Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD
Assuming you mean "isp.net" to be a "phony" email
address, it is not necessarily the case. Enter http://isp.net in your browser and you'll find that you go there, to a page that has an isp.com banner at the top, meaning that both isp.net and isp.com are owned by the same entity. Based on that, it's entirely possible for you to be using an actual, already existing, pre-existed, or yet-to-exist e-mail address. That is strictly forbidden to do by several RFCs and plain old netiquette. Before you say that won't happen, understand I know of two such similar legitimate addresses already. They are mine. Please learn how to "phony" an e-mail address and do not use anything that does, could, or may have already existed. Wikipedia would probably help you the most. Twayne "Anna" wrote: In any event, to avoid complications arising out of partition-to-partition type cloning operations, it's usually best to clone the *entire* contents of one's source HDD to the destination HDD. So that when the need arises to restore the system a simple disk-to-disk reverse cloning operation is all that's needed. "Mike Torello" wrote in message news So... what was all that about how to clone a drive/disk to a single partition, and then doing it again later to another partition... so that one could keep "generational copies"?? As I've indicated, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which impacts on the disk-cloning process, we generally encourage users to create a single-partitioned source HDD rather than a multi-partitioned disk and organize their contents on a folder-by-folder basis rather than on a partition-by-partition basis. Having a single-partitioned source HDD does facilitate the disk-cloning process when the user is particularly interested in maintaining "generational" copies of his or her system. So that the user can clone the contents of his/her source HDD at different points-in-time to their destination HDD (the recipient of the clones) and each created partition on the destination drive will mirror their source drive's contents at that particular point-in-time. Remember that as long as the destination HDD has sufficient unallocated disk space the user can create as many generational clones as the destination drive can accommodate. Where the user has a multi-partitioned source HDD the cloning process becomes a bit more complicated since now the user must clone each partition on the source HDD (assuming that's what he or she wants to do, i.e., include *all* the partitions on their source HDD) to the destination HDD. While there's little problem in doing that, it does mean that the destination HDD will contain a multitude of partitions and depending upon the sheer number of generational copies of the user's system he or she wants to retain, this can be a bit unwieldy. But as long as the user properly labels each destination partition so that he or she can later easily identify the date each partition was created there should be no problem in later determining which partition(s) the user needs to restore his/her system as of a particular date. So, for example, if the user's source HDD had three partitions - C:, E: & F:, and the user cloned those partitions to their destination HDD today - 1-29, the user might want to label those three cloned partitions on the destination drive "C: 1-29", "E: 1-29", "F: 1-29" and so on & so on. Not particularly difficult, nor terribly time-consuming but some sort of identification label for each partition would be called for. Again, as I've previously indicated, the *actual* drive letter assignments on the destination HDD are of no consequence here. When, for example, the user needs to restore his/her system with the three partition-clones created on 2-5 because the user's source HDD has become defective and is no longer usable, he or she will simply clone those three partitions on the destination HDD (ensuring of course, that they're the correct three 2-5 clones) to a new HDD. The appropriate source drive letters will be properly assigned by the system regardless of how the destination HDD had assigned drive letters to those partitions. Anna |
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#182
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Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD
"Anna" wrote:
Where the user has a multi-partitioned source HDD the cloning process becomes a bit more complicated since now the user must clone each partition on the source HDD (assuming that's what he or she wants to do, i.e., include *all* the partitions on their source HDD) to the destination HDD. While there's little problem in doing that, it does mean that the destination HDD will contain a multitude of partitions and depending upon the sheer number of generational copies of the user's system he or she wants to retain, this can be a bit unwieldy. But as long as the user properly labels each destination partition so that he or she can later easily identify the date each partition was created there should be no problem in later determining which partition(s) the user needs to restore his/her system as of a particular date. Imaging that multi-partitioned drive is simple, and fast. No individual partitions to image. None to re-label to help keep track of them on the destination drive. Like I said befo Casper is cripple-ware compared to Acronis True Image as far as I am concerned. It might be the best gol-durned cloning tool in the business, but it can ONLY clone. |
#183
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Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD
Mike Torello wrote:
"Bill in Co." wrote: Mike Torello wrote: "Bill in Co." wrote: Mike Torello wrote: "Bill in Co." wrote: Again... download and take the time to digest the material in the user guide. It is quite simple to follow - easier than one of Anna's treatises... and might even include less text. Too simple, to the point of being a bit too simplistic, although the general ideas are covered. I'm talking about what partition copying IS, or is NOT. I've used ATI, BING, and PM, so I think I've got a pretty good understanding of the *underlying concepts* here which have nothing to do with the specific program being used, except as to which technique is or is not being used. You can keep this conversation alive if you like. I am satisfied that the partition copying results in an IDENTICAL copy. Pony up the bucks, try it out and report back if/when you find differently. Until then all you can do is guess - and continue to qualify your guesses with the disclaimer that you've never used the program. Actually, it won't take any guessing if you (or whoever) just check it out yourself. To see if it is a bonafide sector-by-sector partition copy, look at the sizes of the two partitions (i.e., on the source and destination drive) after the operation is complete. And also look at the copied *folder* date time stamps, and see if they are the same as on the source partition. A true generational copy will also *maintain* the original folder and subfolder dates, in addition to the sizes of the partitions themselves (note: the size of the partition - NOT the amount of the data inside; BIG difference there!!!). You are wrong again (who woulda thunk it!?). A partition/disk can be cloned with the resulting clone being either larger, smaller or the same size as the original. That is NOT a partition copy, at the disk sector level. They are NOT identical. Also, did you, or did you not, check the folder dates on the destination drive, to see if they were identical to those on the source drive partition? I notice you didn't address that, and it would be useful to know. You could easily check it in windows explorer. OK... here's a hypothetical situation for YOU to think about - everyone else sit back and lurk. What do you mean "OK"?? Did you, or did you NOT, check out what I asked? I gather you did NOT. How hard is that to do (assuming you have used Casper)? It would take you all of about 2 minutes (assuming you understand what you're looking at). Report back your findings. Note: I'm not talking about the "clone whole disk" option here) Remember: Casper uses the term "copy" when it clones. System disk: 160gigs, two partitions, C (system) and D (misc. data, none of it needed by any installed programs, none of it even referred to by anything on C). C is 110gigs - 40gigs of it used. D is 50 gigs. Second internal disk: 110gigs, two partitions, G and H. G: 55gigs, H is the same. If one uses Casper's partition copy (Copy a specific drive) to copy C to G, what do you predict the result will be on G? Predict the same if the first disk is only a single partition C, and only 40 gigs of it is used. Well, I'd consider answering your question if you answer mine (this now, for the second time around). |
#184
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Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD
"Bill in Co." wrote:
Mike Torello wrote: "Bill in Co." wrote: Mike Torello wrote: "Bill in Co." wrote: Mike Torello wrote: "Bill in Co." wrote: Again... download and take the time to digest the material in the user guide. It is quite simple to follow - easier than one of Anna's treatises... and might even include less text. Too simple, to the point of being a bit too simplistic, although the general ideas are covered. I'm talking about what partition copying IS, or is NOT. I've used ATI, BING, and PM, so I think I've got a pretty good understanding of the *underlying concepts* here which have nothing to do with the specific program being used, except as to which technique is or is not being used. You can keep this conversation alive if you like. I am satisfied that the partition copying results in an IDENTICAL copy. Pony up the bucks, try it out and report back if/when you find differently. Until then all you can do is guess - and continue to qualify your guesses with the disclaimer that you've never used the program. Actually, it won't take any guessing if you (or whoever) just check it out yourself. To see if it is a bonafide sector-by-sector partition copy, look at the sizes of the two partitions (i.e., on the source and destination drive) after the operation is complete. And also look at the copied *folder* date time stamps, and see if they are the same as on the source partition. A true generational copy will also *maintain* the original folder and subfolder dates, in addition to the sizes of the partitions themselves (note: the size of the partition - NOT the amount of the data inside; BIG difference there!!!). You are wrong again (who woulda thunk it!?). A partition/disk can be cloned with the resulting clone being either larger, smaller or the same size as the original. That is NOT a partition copy, at the disk sector level. They are NOT identical. Also, did you, or did you not, check the folder dates on the destination drive, to see if they were identical to those on the source drive partition? I notice you didn't address that, and it would be useful to know. You could easily check it in windows explorer. OK... here's a hypothetical situation for YOU to think about - everyone else sit back and lurk. What do you mean "OK"?? Did you, or did you NOT, check out what I asked? I gather you did NOT. How hard is that to do (assuming you have used Casper)? It would take you all of about 2 minutes (assuming you understand what you're looking at). Report back your findings. Note: I'm not talking about the "clone whole disk" option here) Neither am I. If you've been keeping track, you should know that I do NOT have Casper, I've only been reading the User Guide that I got from the Casper website - something you can do as easily as I did. Once mo Casper says "copy" when it means "clone". There are TWO methods available to Casper users (taken directly from that User Guide)... (1) Copy an entire hard disk, and (2) Copy a specific drive (which translates to Copy a specific partition). Remember: Casper uses the term "copy" when it clones. System disk: 160gigs, two partitions, C (system) and D (misc. data, none of it needed by any installed programs, none of it even referred to by anything on C). C is 110gigs - 40gigs of it used. D is 50 gigs. Second internal disk: 110gigs, two partitions, G and H. G: 55gigs, H is the same. If one uses Casper's partition copy (Copy a specific drive) to copy C to G, what do you predict the result will be on G? Predict the same if the first disk is only a single partition C, and only 40 gigs of it is used. Well, I'd consider answering your question if you answer mine (this now, for the second time around). What more do you want from me? I say that BOTH methods (copy disk/partition) will result in an EXACT COPY (all file dates the same) that is BOOTABLE. It only stand to reason, otherwise why would one want to copy a system partition? |
#185
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Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD
Mike Torello wrote:
"Anna" wrote: Where the user has a multi-partitioned source HDD the cloning process becomes a bit more complicated since now the user must clone each partition on the source HDD (assuming that's what he or she wants to do, i.e., include *all* the partitions on their source HDD) to the destination HDD. While there's little problem in doing that, it does mean that the destination HDD will contain a multitude of partitions and depending upon the sheer number of generational copies of the user's system he or she wants to retain, this can be a bit unwieldy. But as long as the user properly labels each destination partition so that he or she can later easily identify the date each partition was created there should be no problem in later determining which partition(s) the user needs to restore his/her system as of a particular date. Imaging that multi-partitioned drive is simple, and fast. No individual partitions to image. None to re-label to help keep track of them on the destination drive. Like I said befo Casper is cripple-ware compared to Acronis True Image as far as I am concerned. It might be the best gol-durned cloning tool in the business, but it can ONLY clone. AND if one wants to keep multiple copies of a clone of a multi-partitioned drive, it's practically useless. |
#186
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Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD
WaIIy wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:04:51 -0700, "Bill in Co." wrote: Mike Torello wrote: "Bill in Co." wrote: Mike Torello wrote: "Bill in Co." wrote: Again... download and take the time to digest the material in the user guide. It is quite simple to follow - easier than one of Anna's treatises... and might even include less text. Too simple, to the point of being a bit too simplistic, although the general ideas are covered. I'm talking about what partition copying IS, or is NOT. I've used ATI, BING, and PM, so I think I've got a pretty good understanding of the *underlying concepts* here which have nothing to do with the specific program being used, except as to which technique is or is not being used. You can keep this conversation alive if you like. I am satisfied that the partition copying results in an IDENTICAL copy. Pony up the bucks, try it out and report back if/when you find differently. Until then all you can do is guess - and continue to qualify your guesses with the disclaimer that you've never used the program. Actually, it won't take any guessing if you (or whoever) just check it out yourself. To see if it is a bonafide sector-by-sector partition copy, look at the sizes of the two partitions (i.e., on the source and destination drive) after the operation is complete. And also look at the copied folder date and time stamps, and see if they are the same as on the source partition. A true generational copy will also maintain the original folder and subfolder dates, in addition to the sizes of the partitions themselves (note: size of the partition, and NOT the amount of the data inside; BIG difference there). You are wrong again (who woulda thunk it!?). A partition/disk can be cloned with the resulting clone being either larger, smaller or the same size as the original. That is NOT a partition copy, at the disk sector level. They are not identical. Also, did you, or did you not, check the folder dates on the destination drive, to see if they were identical to those on the source drive partition? I notice you didn't address that, and it would be useful to know. You could easily check it in windows explorer. I just checked and my C drive C:\Windows folder is dated June 20, 2008 1:48 PM and so is my C:\Windows on my backup, cloned drive. So it's IDENTICAL! One down, one to go. If it's bootable, maybe Bill will STF up :-) |
#187
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Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD
WaIIy wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:19:41 -0600, Mike Torello wrote: WaIIy wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:41:49 -0700, "Bill in Co." wrote: WaIIy wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:35:38 -0700, "Bill in Co." wrote: WaIIy wrote: I have the option to clone the drive or copy it. I copied it to an existing partition on my second internal drive. I think the message for copying reads something like "copy a partition" so I just copied the whole C drive which is one partition to an existing partition on my second drive (which has 2 partitions). OK, then presumably Casper handles it behind the scenes by first deleting that partition and then creating it WHEN it copies the source drive partition to the destination drive. (In contrast, using Boot It NG, which does less hand holding, *you* must FIRST mark that space as "Unallocated" on the destination drive (or delete the partition there), and only THEN will it do the partition copy operation. In my case, I copied (not cloned) the C drive to a partition (D) on my destination drive. I have D and E on my destination drive. The existing partition I copied to was and is 37 gigs, the copy takes up 27 gigs That's because the pre-existing partition there was deleted in the copy partition operation (and effectively recreated as this new and smaller one). "Was and is" The destination drive had partition D of 37 gigs. The copy was 27 gigs. The partition is still 37 gigs. Casper didn't touch it. Then it's not a true "partition copy" in the normal usage of the term, since the source and destination partitions are NOT identical. If what you said is true, then apparently it's only copying the data contents of what's inside the partition, and is NOT making identical partitions. (I'm talking about the size of the partition here, NOT the total size of the data inside!. For example, my main C: partition is 40 GB in size, but only half of it is in use at this point (about 20 GB of data). I agree, the partitions are not identical. The stuff in them seems to be, although my copy is not bootable from the outset. I "think" "possibly" it can be made bootable, but not quite sure. It's gotta be. What about when you copy a single-partitioned system disk to a partition on a second drive. It's not an image. If it ain't bootable, what good is it as a backup!? I'm talking the "Copy" not the clone. From looking at both options as they appear in the User Guide, there's no difference. |
#188
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Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD
WaIIy wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:03:17 -0600, Mike Torello wrote: "Anna" wrote: In any event, to avoid complications arising out of partition-to-partition type cloning operations, it's usually best to clone the *entire* contents of one's source HDD to the destination HDD. So that when the need arises to restore the system a simple disk-to-disk reverse cloning operation is all that's needed. So... what was all that about how to clone a drive/disk to a single partition, and then doing it again later to another partition... so that one could keep "generational copies"?? I personally don't think you can do that. Maybe you can??? You own Casper, don't you? TRY it. |
#189
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Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD
WaIIy wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:39:21 -0600, Mike Torello wrote: I just checked and my C drive C:\Windows folder is dated June 20, 2008 1:48 PM and so is my C:\Windows on my backup, cloned drive. So it's IDENTICAL! One down, one to go. If it's bootable, maybe Bill will STF up :-) I know it's bootable, I tried it. YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYES! I Copied ( Not Cloned) my C drive (it has one partition) to a Partition on a multi-partition drive and the C:\Windows date is the same as on my C drive and the same as on the external clone. I keep a copy and a clone. My clone is all by itself. My copy is on a partition of a multi-partitoned drive. Bill has been trying to figure Casper out since LAST FEBRUARY. Maybe now he can move on. |
#190
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Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD
WaIIy wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 18:42:10 -0600, Mike Torello wrote: WaIIy wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:19:41 -0600, Mike Torello wrote: WaIIy wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:41:49 -0700, "Bill in Co." wrote: WaIIy wrote: On Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:35:38 -0700, "Bill in Co." wrote: WaIIy wrote: I have the option to clone the drive or copy it. I copied it to an existing partition on my second internal drive. I think the message for copying reads something like "copy a partition" so I just copied the whole C drive which is one partition to an existing partition on my second drive (which has 2 partitions). OK, then presumably Casper handles it behind the scenes by first deleting that partition and then creating it WHEN it copies the source drive partition to the destination drive. (In contrast, using Boot It NG, which does less hand holding, *you* must FIRST mark that space as "Unallocated" on the destination drive (or delete the partition there), and only THEN will it do the partition copy operation. In my case, I copied (not cloned) the C drive to a partition (D) on my destination drive. I have D and E on my destination drive. The existing partition I copied to was and is 37 gigs, the copy takes up 27 gigs That's because the pre-existing partition there was deleted in the copy partition operation (and effectively recreated as this new and smaller one). "Was and is" The destination drive had partition D of 37 gigs. The copy was 27 gigs. The partition is still 37 gigs. Casper didn't touch it. Then it's not a true "partition copy" in the normal usage of the term, since the source and destination partitions are NOT identical. If what you said is true, then apparently it's only copying the data contents of what's inside the partition, and is NOT making identical partitions. (I'm talking about the size of the partition here, NOT the total size of the data inside!. For example, my main C: partition is 40 GB in size, but only half of it is in use at this point (about 20 GB of data). I agree, the partitions are not identical. The stuff in them seems to be, although my copy is not bootable from the outset. I "think" "possibly" it can be made bootable, but not quite sure. It's gotta be. What about when you copy a single-partitioned system disk to a partition on a second drive. It's not an image. If it ain't bootable, what good is it as a backup!? I'm talking the "Copy" not the clone. From looking at both options as they appear in the User Guide, there's no difference. There's a huge difference. Not functionally: the end product is identical to the source, and it's bootable. That's what matters. |
#191
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Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD
Mike Torello wrote:
WaIIy wrote: On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:03:17 -0600, Mike Torello wrote: "Anna" wrote: In any event, to avoid complications arising out of partition-to-partition type cloning operations, it's usually best to clone the *entire* contents of one's source HDD to the destination HDD. So that when the need arises to restore the system a simple disk-to-disk reverse cloning operation is all that's needed. So... what was all that about how to clone a drive/disk to a single partition, and then doing it again later to another partition... so that one could keep "generational copies"?? I personally don't think you can do that. Maybe you can??? You own Casper, don't you? TRY it. You don't have to. You just said in another post that you "copied" to an existing partition on another disk and the copy is bootable. You can do that on as many partitions as space on the destination drive is available. Good luck using Casper to "reverse clone". It might get confusing. |
#192
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Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD
On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:07:54 -0500, WaIIy wrote:
So... what was all that about how to clone a drive/disk to a single partition, and then doing it again later to another partition... so that one could keep "generational copies"?? I personally don't think you can do that. Maybe you can??? You own Casper, don't you? TRY it. ****, okay, I'll try it and report back. Don't bother. It can be done... I did it yesterday to test it out. Keeping multiple images with Acronis is much simpler if one wants that ability. Richie Hardwick |
#193
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Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD
On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:18:09 -0500, WaIIy wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:12:30 -0600, Richie Hardwick wrote: On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:07:54 -0500, WaIIy wrote: So... what was all that about how to clone a drive/disk to a single partition, and then doing it again later to another partition... so that one could keep "generational copies"?? I personally don't think you can do that. Maybe you can??? You own Casper, don't you? TRY it. ****, okay, I'll try it and report back. Don't bother. It can be done... I did it yesterday to test it out. Keeping multiple images with Acronis is much simpler if one wants that ability. Richie Hardwick You can't boot the Copy, I just tried it. I can boot my Clone, not my Copy. You tried something else. Nope. I used "Copy a specific drive". To be bootable, it's gotta be in the Primary partition. Trust me: ALL such copies will be "bootable" (an EXACT duplicate) except for the above limitation - they HAVE to be if they are going to be "reverse-clonable" to restore the system partition. |
#194
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Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD
On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:32:05 -0500, WaIIy wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:22:36 -0600, Richie Hardwick wrote: On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:18:09 -0500, WaIIy wrote: On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:12:30 -0600, Richie Hardwick wrote: On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:07:54 -0500, WaIIy wrote: So... what was all that about how to clone a drive/disk to a single partition, and then doing it again later to another partition... so that one could keep "generational copies"?? I personally don't think you can do that. Maybe you can??? You own Casper, don't you? TRY it. ****, okay, I'll try it and report back. Don't bother. It can be done... I did it yesterday to test it out. Keeping multiple images with Acronis is much simpler if one wants that ability. Richie Hardwick You can't boot the Copy, I just tried it. I can boot my Clone, not my Copy. You tried something else. Nope. I used "Copy a specific drive". To be bootable, it's gotta be in the Primary partition. Trust me: ALL such copies will be "bootable" (an EXACT duplicate) except for the above limitation - they HAVE to be if they are going to be "reverse-clonable" to restore the system partition. My second drive has D and E. My copy is on D It wouldn't boot. That's all I know. You did something wrong. It worked on mine yesterday and it just worked again. On TWO internal drives (I have four counting my system drive - plus two externals). Richie |
#195
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Using Casper 5 disk-cloning program to clone multi-partitioned HDD
On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:42:10 -0500, WaIIy wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:36:45 -0600, Richie Hardwick wrote: On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:32:05 -0500, WaIIy wrote: On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:22:36 -0600, Richie Hardwick wrote: On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:18:09 -0500, WaIIy wrote: On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 19:12:30 -0600, Richie Hardwick wrote: On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 20:07:54 -0500, WaIIy wrote: So... what was all that about how to clone a drive/disk to a single partition, and then doing it again later to another partition... so that one could keep "generational copies"?? I personally don't think you can do that. Maybe you can??? You own Casper, don't you? TRY it. ****, okay, I'll try it and report back. Don't bother. It can be done... I did it yesterday to test it out. Keeping multiple images with Acronis is much simpler if one wants that ability. Richie Hardwick You can't boot the Copy, I just tried it. I can boot my Clone, not my Copy. You tried something else. Nope. I used "Copy a specific drive". To be bootable, it's gotta be in the Primary partition. Trust me: ALL such copies will be "bootable" (an EXACT duplicate) except for the above limitation - they HAVE to be if they are going to be "reverse-clonable" to restore the system partition. My second drive has D and E. My copy is on D It wouldn't boot. That's all I know. You did something wrong. It worked on mine yesterday and it just worked again. On TWO internal drives (I have four counting my system drive - plus two externals). Richie Is the partition you booted from marked "Active" when you look in disk management? Ps It's hard to do something wrong when I just copied C to D. I unplugged my C drive and plugged the second drive in that connector on my MB. "No boot device available" Don't know what to tell you. It works fine here, so I absolutely KNOW you're doing something wrong. I even used Casper to make an "incremental clone" of yesterday's after I installed a .NET update and a Defender update today. |
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