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Undeletable file. I'm stumped.



 
 
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  #61  
Old September 11th 12, 10:35 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
BillW50
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,556
Default Undeletable file. I'm stumped.

On 09/11/2012 08:08 AM, glee wrote:
...and just to be clear, as a P.S. to my other reply, if you have an
actual Linux installation on the hard drive, in addition to Windows or
instead of Windows, some distros of LIve CD *may* use the existing swap
partiton of the installed Linux system. This is not the same as using
the Windows page file, which the Live CDs do *not* do.

In this discussion, we're not talking about a computer that has a Linux
installation on the hard dirve, though.... we are talking about systems
with Windows only. The hard drive is not mounted without specific input
from the user, when using the defaults of the Live CD.


I wouldn't bother mixing Windows and Linux on the same machine personally.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Lucid Puppy 5.2.5
Centrino Core Duo T2300 1.66GHz - 1GB - ThunderBird 3.1
Ads
  #62  
Old September 11th 12, 10:35 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
BillW50
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,556
Default Undeletable file. I'm stumped.

On 09/11/2012 09:58 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:20:18 -0500, wrote
in ...

In ,
Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 15:43:51 -0500, wrote
in ...

In ,
Char Jackson typed:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 07:54:53 -0400, Zaphod Beeblebrox
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Sep 2012 15:55:12 -0500,
wrote in ...

Careful, I have been burned by Linux Live before. My Windows
didn't have a swapfile because I was running it on a SSD. And
Ubuntu Live doesn't care and makes it's own in the Windows
partition. I have no idea why Linux needs to touch anything it
shouldn't, but it does. And when I booted Windows after Ubuntu
Live it popped up a window saying Windows Installer and froze. I
much prefer WinPE or BartPE. As they don't play games with your
partition like Linux does.

rant

As with many other anecdotes and instances of failure from you,
this reeks of user error. I've been using various Linux Live CDs,
including Ubuntu, extensively for system recovery for better than a
decade and what you describe just doesn't happen and I'll wager has
never happened. First, Linux Live CDs don't auto-mount hard drive
partitions, they must be manually mounted by the user. Second,
Linux Live CDs don't use swap. Third, Linux doesn't use a swap
*file* by default it uses a swap *partition* so it would have
completely flattened the partition had it somehow gone off the
deep end and decided to use your drive as swap on its own.
Fourth, even if it did use a swap file, that file would have been
just that, a file on the file system separate from anything else
and Windows wouldn't have cared a whit.

Crawl back under your bridge, troll.

/rant

+1

You nailed it.

Nope you both are wrong

Without corroborated evidence to the contrary, I'd say it is you that
are wrong, not the thousands of other users who have had none of the
issues you do with Ubuntu (or other) Live CDs.

and owe us an apology.

If you are ever able to produce any evidence that an Ubuntu Live CD
has trashed any system other than yours by using a Windows swap file
when it wasn't manually configured to do so, I will. Otherwise, my
assertion and characterization stands.


Yeah I get that a lot. But I am always proved to be right in the end
even if it takes years. Like that OS/2 fiasco. For two years I was
complaining to IBM and on the newsgroups that OS/2 Warp had a stability
problem. As I was getting the OS freeze up about twice per week. I was
losing tons of work because I couldn't save anything.

And all I heard was it was just me, it's your hardware, OS/2 is rock
stable, and blah, blah, blah. Even though I knew everybody was wrong.
Then two years later IBM actually ran into it. And it affected all
machines and users. What set it off was copying and pasting back and
forth between DOS and OS/2. IBM claimed it left the OS in an unstable
state and it was just a matter of time before it would crash. Did
anybody say sorry Bill or anything? Nope! Very typical in my experience.


IBM rightly ignored your vague declaration that "omg something is
wrong" and again rightly did not give you any credit because you didn't
actually contribute anything that would help identify the problem or
provide a solution.

Among other things, I've done software quality assurance testing and
what you are doing doesn't qualify. Documentation, debug logs, screen
captures, before and after disk images / file CRCs, etc., verification
on multiple systems, systematic elimination of other variables to
determine the actual cause of a problem that was observed - those are
(some of) the things that prove a problem. Until and unless you
provide a repeatable set of steps to duplicate the issue, you are just
waving your hands and proclaiming that the sky is falling. Pick up the
acorn, Henny Penny, and recognize it for what it is. In this case, it
is a consequence of your own actions, not a flaw in the system.


How long have you been doing this? You can't send in a bug report just
saying "omg something is wrong". That just doesn't fly. There are tons
of other information that you have to supply. Hardware, build, drivers,
open applications, logs, etc. I sent all of that in over a dozen times
over that period of time.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Lucid Puppy 5.2.5
Centrino Core Duo T2300 1.66GHz - 1GB - ThunderBird 3.1
  #63  
Old September 11th 12, 11:11 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
BillW50
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,556
Default Undeletable file. I'm stumped.

On 09/11/2012 09:01 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 09:08:18 -0400, "glee"
wrote:

...and just to be clear, as a P.S. to my other reply, if you have an
actual Linux installation on the hard drive, in addition to Windows or
instead of Windows, some distros of LIve CD *may* use the existing swap
partiton of the installed Linux system. This is not the same as using
the Windows page file, which the Live CDs do *not* do.

In this discussion, we're not talking about a computer that has a Linux
installation on the hard dirve, though.... we are talking about systems
with Windows only. The hard drive is not mounted without specific input
from the user, when using the defaults of the Live CD.


IMHO, Bill's pretty much pi**ing into the wind with his claims until
he steps up and provides some actual technical information. A blinking
HD activity LED doesn't tell a convincing story.

How about something like, a complete set of file CRCs from before and
after running the live CD. Compare the CRCs to see which, if any,
files have changed. A second step could be a DIFF to see how the
affected file(s), if any, have changed.

I suggest doing this by booting a live CD twice, with CRC snapshots
taken before, after, and after, since booting Windows will absolutely
cause changes that will skew the test results. We could discuss the
finer points until everyone's satisfied that it's a valid test, but in
the meantime we've basically got the resident nut job making a claim
and not being able to back it up. It's a stalemate until someone steps
up and does some *actual* testing, rather than watching a flickering
LED.


Oh Ubuntu Live is accessing the Windows drive way too much to be
nothing. I'm not surprised that it doesn't mean anything to you. ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Ubuntu 12.04.1
Centrino Core Duo T2300 1.66GHz - 1GB - Thunderbird v15
  #64  
Old September 12th 12, 01:53 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default Undeletable file. I'm stumped.

On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:11:09 -0500, BillW50 wrote:

On 09/11/2012 09:01 AM, Char Jackson wrote:

IMHO, Bill's pretty much pi**ing into the wind with his claims until
he steps up and provides some actual technical information. A blinking
HD activity LED doesn't tell a convincing story.
snip
It's a stalemate until someone steps
up and does some *actual* testing, rather than watching a flickering
LED.


Oh Ubuntu Live is accessing the Windows drive way too much to be
nothing. I'm not surprised that it doesn't mean anything to you. ;-)


It shouldn't mean anything to you, either.

Get some *real* data, please. See Zaphod's post for some excellent
tips.

  #65  
Old September 12th 12, 01:56 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default Undeletable file. I'm stumped.

On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:35:29 -0500, BillW50 wrote:

On 09/11/2012 09:58 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:20:18 -0500, wrote
in ...

In ,
Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 15:43:51 -0500, wrote
in ...

In ,
Char Jackson typed:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 07:54:53 -0400, Zaphod Beeblebrox
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Sep 2012 15:55:12 -0500,
wrote in ...

Careful, I have been burned by Linux Live before. My Windows
didn't have a swapfile because I was running it on a SSD. And
Ubuntu Live doesn't care and makes it's own in the Windows
partition. I have no idea why Linux needs to touch anything it
shouldn't, but it does. And when I booted Windows after Ubuntu
Live it popped up a window saying Windows Installer and froze. I
much prefer WinPE or BartPE. As they don't play games with your
partition like Linux does.

rant

As with many other anecdotes and instances of failure from you,
this reeks of user error. I've been using various Linux Live CDs,
including Ubuntu, extensively for system recovery for better than a
decade and what you describe just doesn't happen and I'll wager has
never happened. First, Linux Live CDs don't auto-mount hard drive
partitions, they must be manually mounted by the user. Second,
Linux Live CDs don't use swap. Third, Linux doesn't use a swap
*file* by default it uses a swap *partition* so it would have
completely flattened the partition had it somehow gone off the
deep end and decided to use your drive as swap on its own.
Fourth, even if it did use a swap file, that file would have been
just that, a file on the file system separate from anything else
and Windows wouldn't have cared a whit.

Crawl back under your bridge, troll.

/rant

+1

You nailed it.

Nope you both are wrong

Without corroborated evidence to the contrary, I'd say it is you that
are wrong, not the thousands of other users who have had none of the
issues you do with Ubuntu (or other) Live CDs.

and owe us an apology.

If you are ever able to produce any evidence that an Ubuntu Live CD
has trashed any system other than yours by using a Windows swap file
when it wasn't manually configured to do so, I will. Otherwise, my
assertion and characterization stands.

Yeah I get that a lot. But I am always proved to be right in the end
even if it takes years. Like that OS/2 fiasco. For two years I was
complaining to IBM and on the newsgroups that OS/2 Warp had a stability
problem. As I was getting the OS freeze up about twice per week. I was
losing tons of work because I couldn't save anything.

And all I heard was it was just me, it's your hardware, OS/2 is rock
stable, and blah, blah, blah. Even though I knew everybody was wrong.
Then two years later IBM actually ran into it. And it affected all
machines and users. What set it off was copying and pasting back and
forth between DOS and OS/2. IBM claimed it left the OS in an unstable
state and it was just a matter of time before it would crash. Did
anybody say sorry Bill or anything? Nope! Very typical in my experience.


IBM rightly ignored your vague declaration that "omg something is
wrong" and again rightly did not give you any credit because you didn't
actually contribute anything that would help identify the problem or
provide a solution.

Among other things, I've done software quality assurance testing and
what you are doing doesn't qualify. Documentation, debug logs, screen
captures, before and after disk images / file CRCs, etc., verification
on multiple systems, systematic elimination of other variables to
determine the actual cause of a problem that was observed - those are
(some of) the things that prove a problem. Until and unless you
provide a repeatable set of steps to duplicate the issue, you are just
waving your hands and proclaiming that the sky is falling. Pick up the
acorn, Henny Penny, and recognize it for what it is. In this case, it
is a consequence of your own actions, not a flaw in the system.


How long have you been doing this? You can't send in a bug report just
saying "omg something is wrong". That just doesn't fly. There are tons
of other information that you have to supply. Hardware, build, drivers,
open applications, logs, etc. I sent all of that in over a dozen times
over that period of time.


If you're so experienced, why are you only giving us a flickering HD
activity LED?? Until you produce some actual test results, you've got
nothing.

  #66  
Old September 12th 12, 01:59 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default Undeletable file. I'm stumped.

On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:35:05 -0500, BillW50 wrote:

I've been looking through the archives all day that led me to the
Windows swapfile.


So that's where you've been all day.

Paul wasn't the first who mentioned it. I did find
some posts of this problem from 2009 which I said then that restoring
the registry with ERUNT also corrected the problem. I didn't recall that
part until I read it today.


Are you now going to say that your live CD wrote to the Windows
Registry? This just keeps getting better.

Anyway the post that I am looking for was by some Linux guru from 2009 I
believe that knew tons about Linux and he stated he thought Ubuntu
creating a swapfile on the Windows drive was the problem. I just haven't
found his post so far. But I'll keep looking.


I think your time would be better spent generating some actual test
data. Dredging up an old post isn't going to win you any points.

  #67  
Old September 12th 12, 12:53 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Zaphod Beeblebrox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 868
Default Undeletable file. I'm stumped.

On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 19:56:45 -0500, "Char Jackson"
wrote in article ...

On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:35:29 -0500, BillW50 wrote:

On 09/11/2012 09:58 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:20:18 -0500, wrote
in ...

In ,
Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 15:43:51 -0500, wrote
in ...

In ,
Char Jackson typed:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 07:54:53 -0400, Zaphod Beeblebrox
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Sep 2012 15:55:12 -0500,
wrote in ...

Careful, I have been burned by Linux Live before. My Windows
didn't have a swapfile because I was running it on a SSD. And
Ubuntu Live doesn't care and makes it's own in the Windows
partition. I have no idea why Linux needs to touch anything it
shouldn't, but it does. And when I booted Windows after Ubuntu
Live it popped up a window saying Windows Installer and froze. I
much prefer WinPE or BartPE. As they don't play games with your
partition like Linux does.

rant

As with many other anecdotes and instances of failure from you,
this reeks of user error. I've been using various Linux Live CDs,
including Ubuntu, extensively for system recovery for better than a
decade and what you describe just doesn't happen and I'll wager has
never happened. First, Linux Live CDs don't auto-mount hard drive
partitions, they must be manually mounted by the user. Second,
Linux Live CDs don't use swap. Third, Linux doesn't use a swap
*file* by default it uses a swap *partition* so it would have
completely flattened the partition had it somehow gone off the
deep end and decided to use your drive as swap on its own.
Fourth, even if it did use a swap file, that file would have been
just that, a file on the file system separate from anything else
and Windows wouldn't have cared a whit.

Crawl back under your bridge, troll.

/rant

+1

You nailed it.

Nope you both are wrong

Without corroborated evidence to the contrary, I'd say it is you that
are wrong, not the thousands of other users who have had none of the
issues you do with Ubuntu (or other) Live CDs.

and owe us an apology.

If you are ever able to produce any evidence that an Ubuntu Live CD
has trashed any system other than yours by using a Windows swap file
when it wasn't manually configured to do so, I will. Otherwise, my
assertion and characterization stands.

Yeah I get that a lot. But I am always proved to be right in the end
even if it takes years. Like that OS/2 fiasco. For two years I was
complaining to IBM and on the newsgroups that OS/2 Warp had a stability
problem. As I was getting the OS freeze up about twice per week. I was
losing tons of work because I couldn't save anything.

And all I heard was it was just me, it's your hardware, OS/2 is rock
stable, and blah, blah, blah. Even though I knew everybody was wrong.
Then two years later IBM actually ran into it. And it affected all
machines and users. What set it off was copying and pasting back and
forth between DOS and OS/2. IBM claimed it left the OS in an unstable
state and it was just a matter of time before it would crash. Did
anybody say sorry Bill or anything? Nope! Very typical in my experience.

IBM rightly ignored your vague declaration that "omg something is
wrong" and again rightly did not give you any credit because you didn't
actually contribute anything that would help identify the problem or
provide a solution.

Among other things, I've done software quality assurance testing and
what you are doing doesn't qualify. Documentation, debug logs, screen
captures, before and after disk images / file CRCs, etc., verification
on multiple systems, systematic elimination of other variables to
determine the actual cause of a problem that was observed - those are
(some of) the things that prove a problem. Until and unless you
provide a repeatable set of steps to duplicate the issue, you are just
waving your hands and proclaiming that the sky is falling. Pick up the
acorn, Henny Penny, and recognize it for what it is. In this case, it
is a consequence of your own actions, not a flaw in the system.


How long have you been doing this? You can't send in a bug report just
saying "omg something is wrong". That just doesn't fly. There are tons
of other information that you have to supply. Hardware, build, drivers,
open applications, logs, etc. I sent all of that in over a dozen times
over that period of time.


If you're so experienced, why are you only giving us a flickering HD
activity LED?? Until you produce some actual test results, you've got
nothing.


+1

--
Zaphod

Voted "Worst Dressed Sentient Being in the Known Universe" for seven
years in a row.
  #68  
Old September 12th 12, 01:06 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Zaphod Beeblebrox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 868
Default Undeletable file. I'm stumped.

On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:35:29 -0500, "BillW50" wrote
in article ...

On 09/11/2012 09:58 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:20:18 -0500, wrote
in ...

In ,
Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 15:43:51 -0500, wrote
in ...

In ,
Char Jackson typed:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 07:54:53 -0400, Zaphod Beeblebrox
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Sep 2012 15:55:12 -0500,
wrote in ...

Careful, I have been burned by Linux Live before. My Windows
didn't have a swapfile because I was running it on a SSD. And
Ubuntu Live doesn't care and makes it's own in the Windows
partition. I have no idea why Linux needs to touch anything it
shouldn't, but it does. And when I booted Windows after Ubuntu
Live it popped up a window saying Windows Installer and froze. I
much prefer WinPE or BartPE. As they don't play games with your
partition like Linux does.

rant

As with many other anecdotes and instances of failure from you,
this reeks of user error. I've been using various Linux Live CDs,
including Ubuntu, extensively for system recovery for better than a
decade and what you describe just doesn't happen and I'll wager has
never happened. First, Linux Live CDs don't auto-mount hard drive
partitions, they must be manually mounted by the user. Second,
Linux Live CDs don't use swap. Third, Linux doesn't use a swap
*file* by default it uses a swap *partition* so it would have
completely flattened the partition had it somehow gone off the
deep end and decided to use your drive as swap on its own.
Fourth, even if it did use a swap file, that file would have been
just that, a file on the file system separate from anything else
and Windows wouldn't have cared a whit.

Crawl back under your bridge, troll.

/rant

+1

You nailed it.

Nope you both are wrong

Without corroborated evidence to the contrary, I'd say it is you that
are wrong, not the thousands of other users who have had none of the
issues you do with Ubuntu (or other) Live CDs.

and owe us an apology.

If you are ever able to produce any evidence that an Ubuntu Live CD
has trashed any system other than yours by using a Windows swap file
when it wasn't manually configured to do so, I will. Otherwise, my
assertion and characterization stands.

Yeah I get that a lot. But I am always proved to be right in the end
even if it takes years. Like that OS/2 fiasco. For two years I was
complaining to IBM and on the newsgroups that OS/2 Warp had a stability
problem. As I was getting the OS freeze up about twice per week. I was
losing tons of work because I couldn't save anything.

And all I heard was it was just me, it's your hardware, OS/2 is rock
stable, and blah, blah, blah. Even though I knew everybody was wrong.
Then two years later IBM actually ran into it. And it affected all
machines and users. What set it off was copying and pasting back and
forth between DOS and OS/2. IBM claimed it left the OS in an unstable
state and it was just a matter of time before it would crash. Did
anybody say sorry Bill or anything? Nope! Very typical in my experience.


IBM rightly ignored your vague declaration that "omg something is
wrong" and again rightly did not give you any credit because you didn't
actually contribute anything that would help identify the problem or
provide a solution.

Among other things, I've done software quality assurance testing and
what you are doing doesn't qualify. Documentation, debug logs, screen
captures, before and after disk images / file CRCs, etc., verification
on multiple systems, systematic elimination of other variables to
determine the actual cause of a problem that was observed - those are
(some of) the things that prove a problem. Until and unless you
provide a repeatable set of steps to duplicate the issue, you are just
waving your hands and proclaiming that the sky is falling. Pick up the
acorn, Henny Penny, and recognize it for what it is. In this case, it
is a consequence of your own actions, not a flaw in the system.


How long have you been doing this?


It isn't how long you have been doing something, it is how well you do
it. Clearly, you fail that measurement of success.

You can't send in a bug report just
saying "omg something is wrong". That just doesn't fly. There are tons
of other information that you have to supply. Hardware, build, drivers,
open applications, logs, etc.


None of which matter a whit if the description of the problem is
lacking and you don't supply a repeatable set of steps to duplicate the
problem. Submitting a report that "omg something is wrong, here are my
specs" doesn't cut it.

I sent all of that in over a dozen times
over that period of time.


Then apparently what you sent was either inaccurate or insufficient or
both. Likewise, if you presented the information in the same
disorganized and anecdotal way you have here and with the same
attitude, it is likely what you submitted was dismissed out of hand.
See above: you are doing it wrong. NB: There are classes that can
teach you how, assuming you are willing and capable of learning.

--
Zaphod

Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster: A cocktail based on Janx Spirit.
The effect of one is like having your brain smashed out
by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick.
  #69  
Old September 12th 12, 01:08 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
BillW50
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,556
Default Undeletable file. I'm stumped.

In ,
Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 19:56:45 -0500, "Char Jackson"
wrote in article ...

On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:35:29 -0500, BillW50 wrote:

On 09/11/2012 09:58 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:20:18 -0500,
wrote in ...

In ,
Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 15:43:51 -0500,
wrote in ...

In ,
Char Jackson typed:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 07:54:53 -0400, Zaphod Beeblebrox
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Sep 2012 15:55:12 -0500,
wrote in ...

Careful, I have been burned by Linux Live before. My Windows
didn't have a swapfile because I was running it on a SSD. And
Ubuntu Live doesn't care and makes it's own in the Windows
partition. I have no idea why Linux needs to touch anything
it shouldn't, but it does. And when I booted Windows after
Ubuntu Live it popped up a window saying Windows Installer
and froze. I much prefer WinPE or BartPE. As they don't play
games with your partition like Linux does.

rant

As with many other anecdotes and instances of failure from
you, this reeks of user error. I've been using various Linux
Live CDs, including Ubuntu, extensively for system recovery
for better than a decade and what you describe just doesn't
happen and I'll wager has never happened. First, Linux Live
CDs don't auto-mount hard drive partitions, they must be
manually mounted by the user. Second, Linux Live CDs don't
use swap. Third, Linux doesn't use a swap *file* by default
it uses a swap *partition* so it would have completely
flattened the partition had it somehow gone off the deep end
and decided to use your drive as swap on its own.
Fourth, even if it did use a swap file, that file would have
been just that, a file on the file system separate from
anything else and Windows wouldn't have cared a whit.

Crawl back under your bridge, troll.

/rant

+1

You nailed it.

Nope you both are wrong

Without corroborated evidence to the contrary, I'd say it is you
that are wrong, not the thousands of other users who have had
none of the issues you do with Ubuntu (or other) Live CDs.

and owe us an apology.

If you are ever able to produce any evidence that an Ubuntu Live
CD has trashed any system other than yours by using a Windows
swap file when it wasn't manually configured to do so, I will.
Otherwise, my assertion and characterization stands.

Yeah I get that a lot. But I am always proved to be right in the
end even if it takes years. Like that OS/2 fiasco. For two years
I was complaining to IBM and on the newsgroups that OS/2 Warp had
a stability problem. As I was getting the OS freeze up about
twice per week. I was losing tons of work because I couldn't save
anything.

And all I heard was it was just me, it's your hardware, OS/2 is
rock stable, and blah, blah, blah. Even though I knew everybody
was wrong. Then two years later IBM actually ran into it. And it
affected all machines and users. What set it off was copying and
pasting back and forth between DOS and OS/2. IBM claimed it left
the OS in an unstable state and it was just a matter of time
before it would crash. Did anybody say sorry Bill or anything?
Nope! Very typical in my experience.

IBM rightly ignored your vague declaration that "omg something is
wrong" and again rightly did not give you any credit because you
didn't actually contribute anything that would help identify the
problem or provide a solution.

Among other things, I've done software quality assurance testing
and what you are doing doesn't qualify. Documentation, debug
logs, screen captures, before and after disk images / file CRCs,
etc., verification on multiple systems, systematic elimination of
other variables to determine the actual cause of a problem that
was observed - those are (some of) the things that prove a
problem. Until and unless you provide a repeatable set of steps
to duplicate the issue, you are just waving your hands and
proclaiming that the sky is falling. Pick up the acorn, Henny
Penny, and recognize it for what it is. In this case, it is a
consequence of your own actions, not a flaw in the system.

How long have you been doing this? You can't send in a bug report
just saying "omg something is wrong". That just doesn't fly. There
are tons of other information that you have to supply. Hardware,
build, drivers, open applications, logs, etc. I sent all of that in
over a dozen times over that period of time.


If you're so experienced, why are you only giving us a flickering HD
activity LED?? Until you produce some actual test results, you've got
nothing.


+1


Sure no problem. I charge $150 per hour. So where do I send the bill
too? For free, I tell you that there is something wrong here and it
needs to be investigated.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2


  #70  
Old September 12th 12, 01:23 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
BillW50
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,556
Default Undeletable file. I'm stumped.

In ,
Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:35:29 -0500, "BillW50" wrote
in article ...

On 09/11/2012 09:58 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:20:18 -0500,
wrote in ...

In ,
Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 15:43:51 -0500,
wrote in ...

In ,
Char Jackson typed:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 07:54:53 -0400, Zaphod Beeblebrox
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Sep 2012 15:55:12 -0500,
wrote in ...

Careful, I have been burned by Linux Live before. My Windows
didn't have a swapfile because I was running it on a SSD. And
Ubuntu Live doesn't care and makes it's own in the Windows
partition. I have no idea why Linux needs to touch anything it
shouldn't, but it does. And when I booted Windows after Ubuntu
Live it popped up a window saying Windows Installer and
froze. I much prefer WinPE or BartPE. As they don't play
games with your partition like Linux does.

rant

As with many other anecdotes and instances of failure from you,
this reeks of user error. I've been using various Linux Live
CDs, including Ubuntu, extensively for system recovery for
better than a decade and what you describe just doesn't happen
and I'll wager has never happened. First, Linux Live CDs
don't auto-mount hard drive partitions, they must be manually
mounted by the user. Second, Linux Live CDs don't use swap.
Third, Linux doesn't use a swap *file* by default it uses a
swap *partition* so it would have completely flattened the
partition had it somehow gone off the deep end and decided to
use your drive as swap on its own.
Fourth, even if it did use a swap file, that file would have
been just that, a file on the file system separate from
anything else and Windows wouldn't have cared a whit.

Crawl back under your bridge, troll.

/rant

+1

You nailed it.

Nope you both are wrong

Without corroborated evidence to the contrary, I'd say it is you
that are wrong, not the thousands of other users who have had
none of the issues you do with Ubuntu (or other) Live CDs.

and owe us an apology.

If you are ever able to produce any evidence that an Ubuntu Live
CD has trashed any system other than yours by using a Windows
swap file when it wasn't manually configured to do so, I will.
Otherwise, my assertion and characterization stands.

Yeah I get that a lot. But I am always proved to be right in the
end even if it takes years. Like that OS/2 fiasco. For two years I
was complaining to IBM and on the newsgroups that OS/2 Warp had a
stability problem. As I was getting the OS freeze up about twice
per week. I was losing tons of work because I couldn't save
anything.

And all I heard was it was just me, it's your hardware, OS/2 is
rock stable, and blah, blah, blah. Even though I knew everybody
was wrong. Then two years later IBM actually ran into it. And it
affected all machines and users. What set it off was copying and
pasting back and forth between DOS and OS/2. IBM claimed it left
the OS in an unstable state and it was just a matter of time
before it would crash. Did anybody say sorry Bill or anything?
Nope! Very typical in my experience.

IBM rightly ignored your vague declaration that "omg something is
wrong" and again rightly did not give you any credit because you
didn't actually contribute anything that would help identify the
problem or provide a solution.

Among other things, I've done software quality assurance testing and
what you are doing doesn't qualify. Documentation, debug logs,
screen captures, before and after disk images / file CRCs, etc.,
verification on multiple systems, systematic elimination of other
variables to determine the actual cause of a problem that was
observed - those are (some of) the things that prove a problem.
Until and unless you provide a repeatable set of steps to duplicate
the issue, you are just waving your hands and proclaiming that the
sky is falling. Pick up the acorn, Henny Penny, and recognize it
for what it is. In this case, it is a consequence of your own
actions, not a flaw in the system.


How long have you been doing this?


It isn't how long you have been doing something, it is how well you do
it. Clearly, you fail that measurement of success.

You can't send in a bug report just
saying "omg something is wrong". That just doesn't fly. There are
tons of other information that you have to supply. Hardware, build,
drivers, open applications, logs, etc.


None of which matter a whit if the description of the problem is
lacking and you don't supply a repeatable set of steps to duplicate
the problem. Submitting a report that "omg something is wrong, here
are my specs" doesn't cut it.

I sent all of that in over a dozen times
over that period of time.


Then apparently what you sent was either inaccurate or insufficient or
both. Likewise, if you presented the information in the same
disorganized and anecdotal way you have here and with the same
attitude, it is likely what you submitted was dismissed out of hand.
See above: you are doing it wrong. NB: There are classes that can
teach you how, assuming you are willing and capable of learning.


You don't understand the scope of the problem. I used copy and paste to
and from OS/2 and DOS all of the time back then. This left the OS in an
unstable state. And it would take about a couple of more days before the
OS would actually lockup. By then there was seemingly no rhyme or reason
for the OS lockup. After all, it had taken IBM two years just to find
it. I am sure I was not the only one who found this bug, as OS/2 had
millions of users back then. Although I was the only one who spoke
publicly about it. And I have enough experience that I knew it wasn't a
problem with my hardware or me.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2


  #71  
Old September 12th 12, 01:41 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Zaphod Beeblebrox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 868
Default Undeletable file. I'm stumped.

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 07:08:57 -0500, "BillW50" wrote
in article ...

In ,
Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 19:56:45 -0500, "Char Jackson"
wrote in article ...

On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:35:29 -0500, BillW50 wrote:

On 09/11/2012 09:58 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:20:18 -0500,
wrote in ...

In ,
Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 15:43:51 -0500,
wrote in ...

In ,
Char Jackson typed:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 07:54:53 -0400, Zaphod Beeblebrox
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Sep 2012 15:55:12 -0500,
wrote in ...

Careful, I have been burned by Linux Live before. My Windows
didn't have a swapfile because I was running it on a SSD. And
Ubuntu Live doesn't care and makes it's own in the Windows
partition. I have no idea why Linux needs to touch anything
it shouldn't, but it does. And when I booted Windows after
Ubuntu Live it popped up a window saying Windows Installer
and froze. I much prefer WinPE or BartPE. As they don't play
games with your partition like Linux does.

rant

As with many other anecdotes and instances of failure from
you, this reeks of user error. I've been using various Linux
Live CDs, including Ubuntu, extensively for system recovery
for better than a decade and what you describe just doesn't
happen and I'll wager has never happened. First, Linux Live
CDs don't auto-mount hard drive partitions, they must be
manually mounted by the user. Second, Linux Live CDs don't
use swap. Third, Linux doesn't use a swap *file* by default
it uses a swap *partition* so it would have completely
flattened the partition had it somehow gone off the deep end
and decided to use your drive as swap on its own.
Fourth, even if it did use a swap file, that file would have
been just that, a file on the file system separate from
anything else and Windows wouldn't have cared a whit.

Crawl back under your bridge, troll.

/rant

+1

You nailed it.

Nope you both are wrong

Without corroborated evidence to the contrary, I'd say it is you
that are wrong, not the thousands of other users who have had
none of the issues you do with Ubuntu (or other) Live CDs.

and owe us an apology.

If you are ever able to produce any evidence that an Ubuntu Live
CD has trashed any system other than yours by using a Windows
swap file when it wasn't manually configured to do so, I will.
Otherwise, my assertion and characterization stands.

Yeah I get that a lot. But I am always proved to be right in the
end even if it takes years. Like that OS/2 fiasco. For two years
I was complaining to IBM and on the newsgroups that OS/2 Warp had
a stability problem. As I was getting the OS freeze up about
twice per week. I was losing tons of work because I couldn't save
anything.

And all I heard was it was just me, it's your hardware, OS/2 is
rock stable, and blah, blah, blah. Even though I knew everybody
was wrong. Then two years later IBM actually ran into it. And it
affected all machines and users. What set it off was copying and
pasting back and forth between DOS and OS/2. IBM claimed it left
the OS in an unstable state and it was just a matter of time
before it would crash. Did anybody say sorry Bill or anything?
Nope! Very typical in my experience.

IBM rightly ignored your vague declaration that "omg something is
wrong" and again rightly did not give you any credit because you
didn't actually contribute anything that would help identify the
problem or provide a solution.

Among other things, I've done software quality assurance testing
and what you are doing doesn't qualify. Documentation, debug
logs, screen captures, before and after disk images / file CRCs,
etc., verification on multiple systems, systematic elimination of
other variables to determine the actual cause of a problem that
was observed - those are (some of) the things that prove a
problem. Until and unless you provide a repeatable set of steps
to duplicate the issue, you are just waving your hands and
proclaiming that the sky is falling. Pick up the acorn, Henny
Penny, and recognize it for what it is. In this case, it is a
consequence of your own actions, not a flaw in the system.

How long have you been doing this? You can't send in a bug report
just saying "omg something is wrong". That just doesn't fly. There
are tons of other information that you have to supply. Hardware,
build, drivers, open applications, logs, etc. I sent all of that in
over a dozen times over that period of time.

If you're so experienced, why are you only giving us a flickering HD
activity LED?? Until you produce some actual test results, you've got
nothing.


+1


Sure no problem. I charge $150 per hour.


Given the lack of evidence that you possess anything resembling the
skills required to properly perform software quality assurance testing,
I wouldn't hire you for minimum wage.

So where do I send the bill too? For free, I tell you that there is
something wrong here and it needs to be investigated.


Sorry, the burden of proof is on you. As I said above:

If you are ever able to produce any evidence that an Ubuntu
Live CD has trashed any system other than yours by using a
Windows swap file when it wasn't manually configured to do so,
I will. Otherwise, my assertion and characterization stands.


--
Zaphod

Vell, Zaphod's just zis guy, ya know? - Gag Halfrunt
  #72  
Old September 12th 12, 01:52 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Zaphod Beeblebrox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 868
Default Undeletable file. I'm stumped.

On Wed, 12 Sep 2012 07:23:44 -0500, "BillW50" wrote
in article ...

In ,
Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:35:29 -0500, "BillW50" wrote
in article ...

On 09/11/2012 09:58 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:20:18 -0500,
wrote in ...

In ,
Zaphod Beeblebrox typed:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 15:43:51 -0500,
wrote in ...

In ,
Char Jackson typed:
On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 07:54:53 -0400, Zaphod Beeblebrox
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Sep 2012 15:55:12 -0500,
wrote in ...

Careful, I have been burned by Linux Live before. My Windows
didn't have a swapfile because I was running it on a SSD. And
Ubuntu Live doesn't care and makes it's own in the Windows
partition. I have no idea why Linux needs to touch anything it
shouldn't, but it does. And when I booted Windows after Ubuntu
Live it popped up a window saying Windows Installer and
froze. I much prefer WinPE or BartPE. As they don't play
games with your partition like Linux does.

rant

As with many other anecdotes and instances of failure from you,
this reeks of user error. I've been using various Linux Live
CDs, including Ubuntu, extensively for system recovery for
better than a decade and what you describe just doesn't happen
and I'll wager has never happened. First, Linux Live CDs
don't auto-mount hard drive partitions, they must be manually
mounted by the user. Second, Linux Live CDs don't use swap.
Third, Linux doesn't use a swap *file* by default it uses a
swap *partition* so it would have completely flattened the
partition had it somehow gone off the deep end and decided to
use your drive as swap on its own.
Fourth, even if it did use a swap file, that file would have
been just that, a file on the file system separate from
anything else and Windows wouldn't have cared a whit.

Crawl back under your bridge, troll.

/rant

+1

You nailed it.

Nope you both are wrong

Without corroborated evidence to the contrary, I'd say it is you
that are wrong, not the thousands of other users who have had
none of the issues you do with Ubuntu (or other) Live CDs.

and owe us an apology.

If you are ever able to produce any evidence that an Ubuntu Live
CD has trashed any system other than yours by using a Windows
swap file when it wasn't manually configured to do so, I will.
Otherwise, my assertion and characterization stands.

Yeah I get that a lot. But I am always proved to be right in the
end even if it takes years. Like that OS/2 fiasco. For two years I
was complaining to IBM and on the newsgroups that OS/2 Warp had a
stability problem. As I was getting the OS freeze up about twice
per week. I was losing tons of work because I couldn't save
anything.

And all I heard was it was just me, it's your hardware, OS/2 is
rock stable, and blah, blah, blah. Even though I knew everybody
was wrong. Then two years later IBM actually ran into it. And it
affected all machines and users. What set it off was copying and
pasting back and forth between DOS and OS/2. IBM claimed it left
the OS in an unstable state and it was just a matter of time
before it would crash. Did anybody say sorry Bill or anything?
Nope! Very typical in my experience.

IBM rightly ignored your vague declaration that "omg something is
wrong" and again rightly did not give you any credit because you
didn't actually contribute anything that would help identify the
problem or provide a solution.

Among other things, I've done software quality assurance testing and
what you are doing doesn't qualify. Documentation, debug logs,
screen captures, before and after disk images / file CRCs, etc.,
verification on multiple systems, systematic elimination of other
variables to determine the actual cause of a problem that was
observed - those are (some of) the things that prove a problem.
Until and unless you provide a repeatable set of steps to duplicate
the issue, you are just waving your hands and proclaiming that the
sky is falling. Pick up the acorn, Henny Penny, and recognize it
for what it is. In this case, it is a consequence of your own
actions, not a flaw in the system.

How long have you been doing this?


It isn't how long you have been doing something, it is how well you do
it. Clearly, you fail that measurement of success.

You can't send in a bug report just
saying "omg something is wrong". That just doesn't fly. There are
tons of other information that you have to supply. Hardware, build,
drivers, open applications, logs, etc.


None of which matter a whit if the description of the problem is
lacking and you don't supply a repeatable set of steps to duplicate
the problem. Submitting a report that "omg something is wrong, here
are my specs" doesn't cut it.

I sent all of that in over a dozen times
over that period of time.


Then apparently what you sent was either inaccurate or insufficient or
both. Likewise, if you presented the information in the same
disorganized and anecdotal way you have here and with the same
attitude, it is likely what you submitted was dismissed out of hand.
See above: you are doing it wrong. NB: There are classes that can
teach you how, assuming you are willing and capable of learning.


You don't understand the scope of the problem. I used copy and paste to
and from OS/2 and DOS all of the time back then. This left the OS in an
unstable state. And it would take about a couple of more days before the
OS would actually lockup. By then there was seemingly no rhyme or reason
for the OS lockup. After all, it had taken IBM two years just to find
it. I am sure I was not the only one who found this bug, as OS/2 had
millions of users back then. Although I was the only one who spoke
publicly about it. And I have enough experience that I knew it wasn't a
problem with my hardware or me.


Ah yes, the old "I know what I'm doing, it can't be me, it must be the
software" method of SQA. How quaint. I'm sure you used the equally
impressive "I sent you that bug report with stream of consciousness
anecdotal evidence of a problem at least a hundred times, what do you
mean nobody else is reporting it and you can't reproduce it" approach
to documenting and reporting the issue. slow clap Bravo! I must say,
you are indeed in a class all your own.

--
Zaphod

Adventurer, ex-hippie, good-timer (crook? quite possibly),
manic self-publicist, terrible bad at personal relationships,
often thought to be completely out to lunch.
  #73  
Old September 13th 12, 03:20 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
Achilles[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Undeletable file. I'm stumped.

On 09/12/2012 07:41 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:

Live Cds for Ubuntu and Mint will automatically use a swap partition if
they see a linux swap partition on the local disk. No harm could ever
come from this.



If you are ever able to produce any evidence that an Ubuntu
Live CD has trashed any system other than yours by using a
Windows swap file when it wasn't manually configured to do so,
I will. Otherwise, my assertion and characterization stands.




--
A bow and arrow is better than a gun with no bullets.
  #74  
Old September 13th 12, 01:52 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
glee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,794
Default Undeletable file. I'm stumped.

"Achilles" wrote in message
...
On 09/12/2012 07:41 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:

Live Cds for Ubuntu and Mint will automatically use a swap partition
if they see a linux swap partition on the local disk. No harm could
ever come from this.


Yes, already mentioned.... but that is not the Windows page file, which
is what BillW50 *claims* a Linux Live CD uses.
--
Glen Ventura
MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
CompTIA A+

  #75  
Old September 13th 12, 05:06 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
BillW50
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,556
Default Undeletable file. I'm stumped.

In ,
glee typed:
"Achilles" wrote in message
...
On 09/12/2012 07:41 AM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:

Live Cds for Ubuntu and Mint will automatically use a swap partition
if they see a linux swap partition on the local disk. No harm could
ever come from this.


Yes, already mentioned.... but that is not the Windows page file,
which is what BillW50 *claims* a Linux Live CD uses.


Actually I am just the messenger. I am still looking for that post that
someone told me what Linux can do to a Windows install (including using
the Windows swapfile). I thought it was back in 2009 on a newsgroup
after I told my horror story with Ubuntu Live.

I did find another post on the Dell newsgroup back in August of 2011
which I totally forgotten about. As Monica's Windows started failing to
boot. Somebody mentioned to use Ubuntu Live to pull off her important
files off of the drive. I warned Monica not to use Ubuntu, as Ubuntu
Live burned me with a Windows drive before. She didn't listen and Ubuntu
Live read her hard drive and then later toasted it where nothing could
read the drive after that.

Still looking for that post. maybe he told me on the eeeuser forum or
something and I am looking in the wrong place, i.e. newsgroups. :-(

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2


 




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