If I have to do a complete install, would it be better to get a bigger drive, or a new computer?

Greetings

The continuing saga. I can't create new user accounts. Something
is corrupted. I have had a new ISO downloaded to my computer, the
techs are thinking "reinstall windows" to "fix the problem".
Of course, a reinstall of the OS also means "reinstall the
programs". Which means "First, backup everything on the hard drive,
both partitions." Grumble, grumble, "if it has to be done...."

But then the question comes to me: why not just get a new (larger)
drive, and do the install on that? ("All" I would need to do is burn
a DVD with the ISO and we're good, yes?) Drives run less than a
hundred.

But wait, how about getting a "new" refurbished machine? (They
run $200, and have a larger drive installed already. This solves two
issues 1) will already be configured, and b) will have working USB
ports (the front ones on my current box died last week.)

ah, but now I remember: Backblaze.com\b2\hard-drive-test-data.html
They track the MTBF for the drives they get for their cloud service.

--
pyotr filipivich
The question was asked: "Is Hindsight overrated?"
In retrospect, it appears to be.

If the new computer runs the Kaby Lake (or newer) chipset and newer hardware,
Win7 will install but finding drivers will be next to impossible. Best approach
might be to go with refurbished -OR- upgrade your own unit. Regardless of which
approach, you'll have to re-install your apps if you want them to work
properly!

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

If the new computer runs the Kaby Lake (or newer) chipset and newer hardware,
Win7 will install but finding drivers will be next to impossible. Best
approach might be to go with refurbished -OR- upgrade your own unit.
Regardless of which approach, you'll have to re-install your apps if you want
them to work properly!

Note also, if you do a clean install of Win7 keep in mind its ISO knows nothing
about USB3.0 and so you'll have to install the Root Hub and the eXtensible Host
Controller available (free) from Intel if your box has USB3 ports.

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 10:00:24 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:


The continuing saga. I can't create new user accounts. Something
is corrupted. I have had a new ISO downloaded to my computer, the
techs are thinking "reinstall windows" to "fix the problem".


As far as I'm concerned, that should be the last step--it's a lot of
work, something to do only if you've tried everything else and nothing
works.


Of course, a reinstall of the OS also means "reinstall the
programs". Which means "First, backup everything on the hard drive,
both partitions." Grumble, grumble, "if it has to be done...."



Be are that if you reinstall Windows, backups of your programs are
useless. They will have to be reinstalled from their original media.

Backup of your data files, on the other hand, is not useless. It
should be done to external media regularly, whether or not you have
problems. It sound like you don't do that, and if you don't, you've
been playing with fire.



But then the question comes to me: why not just get a new (larger)
drive, and do the install on that? ("All" I would need to do is burn
a DVD with the ISO and we're good, yes?)


Leaving aside the question of a larger drive, what makes you think a
new drive will be better than the old one? Do you think are problems
are with the drive failing? That sounds very unlikely to me. If
there's nothing wrong with the drive, installing Windows on the old
drive or a new one would be almost exactly the same thing.

And if course if the problem is hardware-related but not the drive
(possible, but doesn't sound likely), changing drives accomplishes
nothing


Drives run less than a
hundred.


That depends on the drive size. You can buy a 1TB from Amazon for $46.


But wait, how about getting a "new" refurbished machine? (They
run $200, and have a larger drive installed already.



Your choice, of course. Personally I stay far away from refurbished
computers. I think that's looking for trouble.


This solves two
issues 1) will already be configured,


To me that wouldn't be a solution to anything. If someone configured
it, the choices he made would almost certainly not be to my liking and
I would need to reconfigure it.


and b) will have working USB
ports (the front ones on my current box died last week.)



If USB ports don't work, it's either a problem with the motherboard,
or the cable connecting them to the motherboard. The first thing to
try is making sure the cable connections are tight.

pyotr filipivich wrote:
Greetings

The continuing saga. I can't create new user accounts. Something
is corrupted. I have had a new ISO downloaded to my computer, the
techs are thinking "reinstall windows" to "fix the problem".
Of course, a reinstall of the OS also means "reinstall the
programs". Which means "First, backup everything on the hard drive,
both partitions." Grumble, grumble, "if it has to be done...."

But then the question comes to me: why not just get a new (larger)
drive, and do the install on that? ("All" I would need to do is burn
a DVD with the ISO and we're good, yes?) Drives run less than a
hundred.

But wait, how about getting a "new" refurbished machine? (They
run $200, and have a larger drive installed already. This solves two
issues 1) will already be configured, and b) will have working USB
ports (the front ones on my current box died last week.)

ah, but now I remember: Backblaze.com\b2\hard-drive-test-data.html
They track the MTBF for the drives they get for their cloud service.


My experience is, I weigh the expected usage of a computer
against the computer purchase.

A refurb (Joysystems) comes from a particular era. You
can count on getting a dual core Core2 for example. In
some cases, an ugly computer is available with a quad core
in it.

The systems have the advantage that they're "from the Win7 era"
and "would not be more modern than Skylake". This makes running
Windows 7 or Windows 10 possible. By not having a Kaby Lake
CPU inside, Windows Update for Windows 7 will not complain
about the hardware configuration. The machines come with
Windows 10 on them, and the only way you'll be seeing
Windows 7 Windows Update is if you install your own OS.

Then you have to ask yourself, whether any "heavy" computing
will be done on them. Will you be running a VR helmet ?
Playing PUBG ? Doing movie transcoding ? The refurb machines
are more for email/web browsing as received, and may
need additional expenditures if other functions are
contemplated.

The hard drive in the computer box, don't typically seem to be
from the same era as the machines when delivered. It's not
clear who is putting those hard drives in the machine, whether
it's Joysystems, or it was the IT department of the company
leasing the machines that put in the drive. They're usually
"fifty buck class" drives. The drives are weird enough to
have been put there by some IT department, rather than
being a bulk purchase by Joysystems.

A key question is "what graphics do they come with". Since
a Refurb machine can only ship with Windows 10 on it legally
(not seen any Linux Refurbs), the graphics card should be
intended for usage with Windows 10. And that means something
like a GT1030 replacement would be used, so there would be
a current driver. Back when Win7 shipped as the Refurb OS
on those machines, they could leave an FX5200 in there and
some older driver would work to get the unit out the
door. With Windows 10 as the only option, it makes it
more expensive to refurbish a machine, as the old video
card may not be suitable for meeting customer expectations.

NVidia only makes new 64-bit drivers today, so you have
to weigh that news, with the opportunity to run a 32 bit
OS on the box. While Microsoft still supports 32-bit OSes,
third party companies are becoming a "tiny bit cranky".

*******

You can take a clean Windows installation and use a third-party
product to move all the programs over. But, it'll cost you
*$50 per time* to do the move. The function is very expensive
compared to some of the software you're used to. It's not like
a software you own forever and use a thousand times if you want.
The license terms of these products are much less generous.
This is related to the "proposed" level of Tech Support, where
the tool doesn't do what it's supposed to do so the tech support
remote in and fix it. I've not used one of these, so cannot
comment on how "creaky" these are. A typical customer comment
would be "there was this one program it wouldn't transfer".
Most of the programs will transfer, but... YMMV.

https://web.laplink.com/pcmover_feature_overview/
http://www.zinstall.com/products/zinstall-winwin

# Note: the trial version cannot even successfully compute the
# entire list of programs needing to be moved!
# If anything, the trial version should scare you away.
https://www.easeus.com/pc-transfer-s...trans-pro.html

Paul

GS on Sat, 19 Jan 2019 13:48:04 -0500 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
If the new computer runs the Kaby Lake (or newer) chipset and newer hardware,
Win7 will install but finding drivers will be next to impossible. Best
approach might be to go with refurbished -OR- upgrade your own unit.
Regardless of which approach, you'll have to re-install your apps if you want
them to work properly!

Note also, if you do a clean install of Win7 keep in mind its ISO knows nothing
about USB3.0 and so you'll have to install the Root Hub and the eXtensible Host
Controller available (free) from Intel if your box has USB3 ports.

"Oh joy."

Thanks.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

IMO, a clean install is *a clean install* so NO INSTALLED APPS TRANSFER - USER
DATA ONLY!

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

GS wrote:
IMO, a clean install is *a clean install* so NO INSTALLED APPS TRANSFER
- USER DATA ONLY!


But you can use a "transfer" program to move the installed
programs over to your clean OS.

You can acquire a refurb machine with Win10 on it, and move
the Win10 programs on some other machine over. (No, Apps
cannot be moved, the ones that download from the Windows App Store.)

The option exists, if you have deep pockets... and enjoy "fun".
You can move your Programs over and pretend the machine is
now "the same".

Paul

Paul wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
Greetings

The continuing saga. I can't create new user accounts. Something
is corrupted. I have had a new ISO downloaded to my computer, the
techs are thinking "reinstall windows" to "fix the problem".
Of course, a reinstall of the OS also means "reinstall the
programs". Which means "First, backup everything on the hard drive,
both partitions." Grumble, grumble, "if it has to be done...."

But then the question comes to me: why not just get a new (larger)
drive, and do the install on that? ("All" I would need to do is burn
a DVD with the ISO and we're good, yes?) Drives run less than a
hundred.

But wait, how about getting a "new" refurbished machine? (They
run $200, and have a larger drive installed already. This solves two
issues 1) will already be configured, and b) will have working USB
ports (the front ones on my current box died last week.)

ah, but now I remember: Backblaze.com\b2\hard-drive-test-data.html
They track the MTBF for the drives they get for their cloud service.


snip


You can take a clean Windows installation and use a third-party
product to move all the programs over. But, it'll cost you
*$50 per time* to do the move. The function is very expensive
compared to some of the software you're used to. It's not like
a software you own forever and use a thousand times if you want.
The license terms of these products are much less generous.
This is related to the "proposed" level of Tech Support, where
the tool doesn't do what it's supposed to do so the tech support
remote in and fix it. I've not used one of these, so cannot
comment on how "creaky" these are. A typical customer comment
would be "there was this one program it wouldn't transfer".
Most of the programs will transfer, but... YMMV.

https://web.laplink.com/pcmover_feature_overview/
http://www.zinstall.com/products/zinstall-winwin

# Note: the trial version cannot even successfully compute the
# entire list of programs needing to be moved!
# If anything, the trial version should scare you away.
https://www.easeus.com/pc-transfer-s...trans-pro.html

Paul

I've used Laplink's PC Mover, and it has worked out pretty well for me in
the past. A few programs had to be "reinstalled", but that was about it.
It's a bit expensive in its licensing, in that you only get to make one PC
to PC transfer per license, so it's like a single use thing. But it sure
saved me a lot of headaches and time in moving all (or most) of the stuff
over from one PC to another, and you can select what applications you want
to move.

GS wrote:
IMO, a clean install is *a clean install* so NO INSTALLED APPS TRANSFER -
USER DATA ONLY!


But you can use a "transfer" program to move the installed
programs over to your clean OS.

You can acquire a refurb machine with Win10 on it, and move
the Win10 programs on some other machine over. (No, Apps
cannot be moved, the ones that download from the Windows App Store.)

The option exists, if you have deep pockets... and enjoy "fun".
You can move your Programs over and pretend the machine is
now "the same".

Paul

Oh, I totally agree it's an option for anyone to choose to do; - just not my
preference to do it that way! (If things got me to this point then I'm at the
"If I had to do it over..." stage!g)

Now on a new system I'll transfer a clean install image with all its
apps/utilities and system config to save time doing setups. Most often, though,
when people want their original Win7 machine reverted back after it
automajically upgraded to Win10 back when that s--t was happening when we
weren't looking, I'll do a clean install of OS and programs the owner wants to
keep. (Gives them the "if I had to do it over..." benefit!)

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

GS on Sat, 19 Jan 2019 13:48:04 -0500 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
If the new computer runs the Kaby Lake (or newer) chipset and newer
hardware, Win7 will install but finding drivers will be next to
impossible. Best approach might be to go with refurbished -OR- upgrade
your own unit. Regardless of which approach, you'll have to re-install
your apps if you want them to work properly!

Note also, if you do a clean install of Win7 keep in mind its ISO knows
nothing about USB3.0 and so you'll have to install the Root Hub and the
eXtensible Host Controller available (free) from Intel if your box has USB3
ports.

"Oh joy."

Thanks.

I was addressing the point you mentioned about some 'front' USB ports not
working; - just an FYI!

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

On 1/19/2019 10:00 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Greetings

The continuing saga. I can't create new user accounts. Something
is corrupted. I have had a new ISO downloaded to my computer, the
techs are thinking "reinstall windows" to "fix the problem".
Of course, a reinstall of the OS also means "reinstall the
programs". Which means "First, backup everything on the hard drive,
both partitions." Grumble, grumble, "if it has to be done...."

But then the question comes to me: why not just get a new (larger)
drive, and do the install on that? ("All" I would need to do is burn
a DVD with the ISO and we're good, yes?) Drives run less than a
hundred.

But wait, how about getting a "new" refurbished machine? (They
run $200, and have a larger drive installed already. This solves two
issues 1) will already be configured, and b) will have working USB
ports (the front ones on my current box died last week.)

ah, but now I remember: Backblaze.com\b2\hard-drive-test-data.html
They track the MTBF for the drives they get for their cloud service.

The answer is YES!
If that sounds unhelpful, consider that the only clue you've disclosed
is that you posted to a win7 newsgroup. The devil is in the DETAILS.

It's odd that inability to create new user accounts is your primary concern.
I can't remember creating a new user account since...well...forever.
Sounds like something important might be missing from your disclosure.

Consider carefully, BEFORE you start, whether the ISO you have will activate
with the license key that you have. Ditto for all programs that require
keys.

Not clear what "died" means, but you can boot a linux live CD
to determine whether your USB port issues are hardware or OS problems.
Sometimes, the BIOS has the ability to turn off ports individually or
in groups. Were you messing around in the BIOS when the failure happened?

I don't think it's statistically likely, but I've had a failing CMOS
battery cause weird symptoms.


Installs on new drives are safer than overwriting your old one.
And you don't need a third drive to save your backups while in transition.

If it were me, I'd run hddscan on your drive to see if it's ok.
If it is OK and you have a hundred burning a hole in your pocket, go get
a 500GB
SSD for your boot drive and leave the current drive as secondary storage.
That's about as future-proof as you can get these days.

Bottom line is that you're likely to get MUCH BETTER advice if you
disclose what you have, what you want and how much you wanna spend.
The devil is in the DETAILS.

GS on Sat, 19 Jan 2019 15:50:01 -0500 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
GS wrote:
IMO, a clean install is *a clean install* so NO INSTALLED APPS TRANSFER -
USER DATA ONLY!


But you can use a "transfer" program to move the installed
programs over to your clean OS.

You can acquire a refurb machine with Win10 on it, and move
the Win10 programs on some other machine over. (No, Apps
cannot be moved, the ones that download from the Windows App Store.)

The option exists, if you have deep pockets... and enjoy "fun".
You can move your Programs over and pretend the machine is
now "the same".

Paul

Oh, I totally agree it's an option for anyone to choose to do; - just not my
preference to do it that way! (If things got me to this point then I'm at the
"If I had to do it over..." stage!g)

If I had to do it all over again, I'd have gotten the 64 bit XP,
and the bigger hard drive, and, and ....

Now on a new system I'll transfer a clean install image with all its
apps/utilities and system config to save time doing setups. Most often, though,
when people want their original Win7 machine reverted back after it
automajically upgraded to Win10 back when that s--t was happening when we
weren't looking, I'll do a clean install of OS and programs the owner wants to
keep. (Gives them the "if I had to do it over..." benefit!)

Yeah, that is the worry I had. If I do a clean install, and then
run all the Win7 updates, is it going to load Win10 on it "for me"?
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

GS on Sat, 19 Jan 2019 15:56:50 -0500 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
GS on Sat, 19 Jan 2019 13:48:04 -0500 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
If the new computer runs the Kaby Lake (or newer) chipset and newer
hardware, Win7 will install but finding drivers will be next to
impossible. Best approach might be to go with refurbished -OR- upgrade
your own unit. Regardless of which approach, you'll have to re-install
your apps if you want them to work properly!

Note also, if you do a clean install of Win7 keep in mind its ISO knows
nothing about USB3.0 and so you'll have to install the Root Hub and the
eXtensible Host Controller available (free) from Intel if your box has USB3
ports.

"Oh joy."

Thanks.

I was addressing the point you mentioned about some 'front' USB ports not
working; - just an FYI!

Thanks. I wound up buying an external (and powered) hub. It does
the job, perhaps not as elegantly, but definitely less expensively.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

GS on Sat, 19 Jan 2019 14:14:52 -0500 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
IMO, a clean install is *a clean install* so NO INSTALLED APPS TRANSFER - USER
DATA ONLY!

And that is an issue.

OTOH, I'm sure that there are a bunch of programs which will not
get reinstalled.
I might actually be able to get rid of the AutoCAD entries in the
program list.


--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?