Better way to edit PDF forms with any desired font using freeware?

Dan, I think you should know that this is Arlen's M.O. to twist everything
he says , achieving his purpose of getting everyone upset. In my opinion, he
is a self-proclaimed expert with the Android OS, but is unable to
comprehend anything else unless you use one syllable words. I suggest you
block him, but it's your choice.

Dan Purgert wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Yrrah wrote:
Dan Purgert :

That's the whole point -- you're not supposed to be able to edit a
published PDF.
Exactly. PDF is an end format. It's meant to be a virtually printed
document and not an editable word processor file.

Best description I've read of "what" a PDF actually is in like, ever.

Actually, a PDF is whatever Adobe says it is.

Because they keep broadening the scope, in order
to maintain a cash flow from the product. That's
why there is Adobe Lifecycle.

As long as they keep adding crap to it, no open
source software can keep up.

Microsoft does similar things, throwing tiny landmines
into stuff, to "keep life interesting". And those
landmines have absolutely nothing to do with
Customer Satisfaction. I can't say I'm impressed
with the thuggery that goes on.

Paul

On 01/05/2019 17.24, nospam wrote:
In article , Arlen G. Holder
wrote:

It the edits were basically text changes you could have done it with the
add Text function, of Adobe Reader. Click Comments, and select the
Capital T in the tool bar. Place the cursor where you wanted to change
the text, adjust the font size and color, and type in the change.

While I didn't try the Adobe Reader, I have the Adobe Writer (aka Acrobat),
version 6, which can rudimentarily edit existing text, but it has nowhere
near even the most basic of required functionality, e.g., selectable
resizable fonts, and it didn't seem to _add_ text (it would only edit
existing test in my quick test before abandoning that approach).

version 6 is over 15 years old, so it should not be any surprise that
it doesn't work correctly with a modern pdf.

It is not a matter of the PDF file being modern or old, AW it is simply
not designed for what Arlen wants.

I worked with it or similar version around year 2000, and that is what
it did back then. It is not a PDF creation tool, but a modification
tool. Correct a spelling error, for instance. Maybe it added
certificates and other things I have forgotten.
There was another Adobe program in the suite that would do other things.
Distiller?

The idea of PDF is creating a source document that produces a PDF.
Similar to compiling a program. Say, create the document in Office or
Libre Office or whatever, then render the PDF.

What he needs first is a tool that creates the right source document. A
tool designed to create brochures, for instance. There are some
expensive suites out there, name forgotten by me. Corel?

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

"Yrrah" wrote

| That's the whole point -- you're not supposed to be able to edit a
| published PDF.
|
| Exactly. PDF is an end format. It's meant to be a virtually printed
| document and not an editable word processor file.
|

It might be intended by the sender. Then there's the
other issue of what your intended use is. If you don't
want to print it then PDF format is not very useful.

I was under the impression that anyone willing to pay
through the nose for full Acrobat could edit just about
anything. Is that not true? With PDF XChange Viewer
free version I can do quite a bit: Fill forms, add comments,
change a whole page by working on it as an exported image.
With Libre Office I can save a DOC as PDF. Acrobat must
have something more to justify the cost.

To me a PDF is a repair job. It needs to be repaired by
converting it to HTML.

On Sat, 4 May 2019 00:06:33 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

It is not a matter of the PDF file being modern or old, AW it is simply
not designed for what Arlen wants.

Hi Carlos,

Thanks for that correct response to nospam's imaginary belief system, where
you'll note that of all nospam's posts in this (and most) threads...
o He has absolutely no intention on ever being purposefully helpful, and,
o He's so wrong so many times that a brainless coin toss is more accurate.


Given the fact that nospam's credibility is worthless, I decided to ignore
the incessant ignorant bull**** from nospam, who didn't even comprehend
what you did, which is that the file was read just fine, so there's no
problem with the "age" of the Adobe Acrobat Writer, but simply it wasn't
designed to make only very minor changes to PDFs.

I should have done the same in ingoring the other well-known worthless
posters who almost never can add any value to the Potluck Picnic that is
Usenet (such as Dan Purgert), so as to concentrate on finishing up the
tests that Keith Nuttle so kindly suggested.

I worked with it or similar version around year 2000, and that is what
it did back then. It is not a PDF creation tool, but a modification
tool. Correct a spelling error, for instance. Maybe it added
certificates and other things I have forgotten.

The main reason I had the writer was not to edit documents, but to create
fantastic self-containd fully-clickable PDF archives of entire web sites,
any desired level deep, simply by pressing the ingrained muscle-memory
control+shift+o sequence.

In addition, at the time, the Adobe writer had the only easily set up
automatic conversion of PostScript files to PDF files on sight.

There was another Adobe program in the suite that would do other things.
Distiller?

Yup. The Adobe Acrobat Distiller was a nice tool, where I had set up common
Columbia AppleTalk/Samba Windows/SunOS/Mac directories for years (SunOS and
Solaris moving to Linux over time) where the users needed to simply put a
PostScript file into that common directory (which was always hosted on the
UNIX side because it worked best with the two PC platforms), and that file
was automatically converted from PostScript to PDF.

Nowadays, we have almost no need for PostScript, as far as I can tell, but
it was more necessary on the olden days.

The idea of PDF is creating a source document that produces a PDF.
Similar to compiling a program. Say, create the document in Office or
Libre Office or whatever, then render the PDF.

I dug up my _old_ list of freeware tools to operate on PDFs, where it's
interesting that, as you noted, Libre Office has its place in that old list
when it came to PDF privacy!

[x]Fast PDF reader: (Sumatra PDF)
[x]Archive sites (wkhtmltopdf, Acrobat Pro payware)
[x]Add pages (pdftk)
[x]Remove pages (pdfsam, pdftk)
[x]Rotate pages (Acrobat Reader)
[x]Renumber pages (Acrobat Reader)
[x]Remove restrictions (Ghostscript/Ghostview)
[x]Merge PDFs (pdfsam, pdftk)
[x]Extract images (PDF Exchange Viewer)
[x]Edit PDF existing text ()
[x]Edit PDF new text ()
[x]*Print sans username in the properties (Libre Office Writer)*
[_]Print book format PDF (FinePrint payware)
[x]Tile PDFs (i.e., to print large posters) (Posterazor)

What he needs first is a tool that creates the right source document. A
tool designed to create brochures, for instance. There are some
expensive suites out there, name forgotten by me. Corel?

I have Corel Draw, somewhere, but I am not the one creating these PDFs
which, for all we know, can be bitmaps anyway, where any editing tool can
be used to modify them as long as the edits are relatively minor (e.g., you
can't add text which will then shift the page count up).

I've bitten the bullet and re-installed that horrid piece of crap Adobe
Acrobat Reader DC, and will provide a report for Keith Nuttle who has
always been very helpful on these PDF editing questions over the years.

In article , Paul
wrote:


Actually, a PDF is whatever Adobe says it is.

no, because they don't own the spec.

In article , Carlos E. R.
wrote:

It the edits were basically text changes you could have done it with the
add Text function, of Adobe Reader. Click Comments, and select the
Capital T in the tool bar. Place the cursor where you wanted to change
the text, adjust the font size and color, and type in the change.

While I didn't try the Adobe Reader, I have the Adobe Writer (aka Acrobat),
version 6, which can rudimentarily edit existing text, but it has nowhere
near even the most basic of required functionality, e.g., selectable
resizable fonts, and it didn't seem to _add_ text (it would only edit
existing test in my quick test before abandoning that approach).

version 6 is over 15 years old, so it should not be any surprise that
it doesn't work correctly with a modern pdf.

It is not a matter of the PDF file being modern or old,

yes it does, since there are a lot of changes with pdf in the past 15
years, which will cause a 15 year old app to not properly read a more
recent pdf, let alone modify it.

AW it is simply
not designed for what Arlen wants.

not true.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:


| That's the whole point -- you're not supposed to be able to edit a
| published PDF.
|
| Exactly. PDF is an end format. It's meant to be a virtually printed
| document and not an editable word processor file.

It might be intended by the sender. Then there's the
other issue of what your intended use is. If you don't
want to print it then PDF format is not very useful.

false. pdf is *extremely* useful without printing, particularly when it
has embedded multimedia content, something which cannot be printed at
all.

I was under the impression that anyone willing to pay
through the nose for full Acrobat could edit just about
anything. Is that not true? With PDF XChange Viewer
free version I can do quite a bit: Fill forms, add comments,
change a whole page by working on it as an exported image.
With Libre Office I can save a DOC as PDF. Acrobat must
have something more to justify the cost.

it does.

To me a PDF is a repair job. It needs to be repaired by
converting it to HTML.

two very different things for very different purposes.

nospam wrote:
In article , Paul
wrote:

Actually, a PDF is whatever Adobe says it is.

no, because they don't own the spec.

No, they just emit output no one else can read.

Paul

In article , Paul
wrote:

Actually, a PDF is whatever Adobe says it is.

no, because they don't own the spec.

No, they just emit output no one else can read.

they do not.

some users might choose to use adobe-specific extensions, but that's
the user's choice, not adobe.

On Fri, 03 May 2019 17:47:24 -0400, Paul wrote:

Actually, a PDF is whatever Adobe says it is.

Hi Paul,

Those who make claims that a PDF has only one purpose are simply proving
that they are severely limited in what _they_ can do, not the PDF.

The more correct answer is that a PDF is whatever the creators and
receivers want it to be, where, by way of example, I often remove
artificial printing or copying restrictions if that's what I want to do
with a PDF.

Because they keep broadening the scope, in order
to maintain a cash flow from the product. That's
why there is Adobe Lifecycle.

As per the purposefully helpful suggestion from Keith Nuttle, I
re-installed the Adobe Acrobat Reader DC software for tests, where clearly,
to your point, it EDITS the PDF in some ways, as shown below with a strike
through example on an arbitrary PDF containing reams of text:
https://i.postimg.cc/0yPQsxds/pdfedit01.jpg

I'll write a more detailed response to Keith Nuttle on the editing
abilities for adding text using any desired font without needing to
register and log into a site just to have this basic capability to edit
your personal documents that have nothing to do with that web site.

On Thu, 2 May 2019 17:08:43 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote:

there is more fonts in Adobe Reader than
in Word Perfect.

Hi Keith Nuttle,

*YOU UNMDERSTOOD & PROPOSED A SOLUTION THAT _SOLVED_ THE STATED PROBLEM!*

First, I wish to thank you for your purposefully helpful suggestions!
o You helped everyone because Usenet is a potluck picnic of tasty ideas
o We each bring the value we can for the benefit of the whole community

Thanks for your purposefully helpful corrections and clarifications, where
I should note that I was already very familiar with the payware Adobe
Acrobat's so-called "Advanced Editing" "Touch-Up Text Tool" features (at
least up to version 7, which is the last version that I had purchased),
where I show those older menus in this screenshot below of a typical
graduate school application form which is my testcase:
https://i.postimg.cc/s23jZRTJ/pdfedit02.jpg

I'm experienced with that Adobe Acrobat Writer "Advanced Editing" tool,
where I can easily make small edits within the existing text, but anything
that extends past the original line generally screws up almost everything
else, as you can see from this subsequent screenthot taken after making
small spurious edits to the original instructions with the Adobe Acrobat
writer changing the existing test instructions (as a test case only).
https://i.postimg.cc/J4vVLWwh/pdfedit03.jpg

To delve a bit deeper into the limitations of that "Advanced Editing" tool,
if you're extremely judicious with that "Touch Up Text Tool", and, if
you're lucky with line ends and form boxes, you can make small changes to a
document that aren't noticeable, but the moment you extend past the edge of
a text box, you're generally doomed, as it easily screws up the formatting:
https://i.postimg.cc/c4SZgS95/pdfedit04.jpg

However, as you correctly noted, the intent here was not to change the
form's instructions, but to literally fill out the form as you would fill
it out by hand.

I had never thought of using the "Comment" section to add those fields
though, as I think of comments as a sidebar of sorts, when reviewing
documents.

In fact, you may notice that this older Acrobat payware also has had the
"Commenting" & "Advanced Commenting" features all along (this is version 6
of the writer), but where the so-called "Advanced Commenting" feature
appears to completely lack the ability to change the fonts (AFAICT).
https://i.postimg.cc/cHf3hWQ5/pdfedit05.jpg

Hence, I simply "assumed" that the newer "reader" would also lack the
ability to change fonts - but that would be wrong!

To test whether the latest Adobe Acrobat DC (reader) has a font selection,
here's what I did after re-installing the (unfortunately badly written)
Adobe Acrobat Reader DC software on Windows 10 just now:
o I double clicked the multi-page document (which is to be filled out)
o It opened in the latest Adobe Acrobat Reader DC version 2019.010.20099
o In the right panel is a blue Convert button & yellow "Comment" below
https://i.postimg.cc/rmgfj5GH/pdfedit06.jpg
o As you noted, this step adds the "Comments Toolbar" above the document
https://i.postimg.cc/8kmJCNNt/pdfedit07.jpg
o And, as you noted, that enables a desired font for text form completion!
https://i.postimg.cc/mDQvsdx6/pdfedit08.jpg

Woo hoo! You solved the problem for this particular graduate student, where
the student asked me to fill out the form, knowing that nothing stops me
from editing any PDF (even PDFs that have encryption locks on them).

While I can't stand the badly written installer for that Adobe Acrobat
Reader DC freeware, most people aren't as incensed as I am when an
installer doesn't even ask where it should go - which makes your suggestion
PERFECT for me to explain to this graduate student how to annotate any PDF
in the future!

In short, your suggestion worked PERFECTLY for the stated goal of a general
purpose freeware solution to electronically fill in fields of PDF files
which were designed to be filled in by hand.

Thank you for ADDING VALUE to the Potluck Picnic that is Usenet!
o Your suggestion benefits EVERYONE with this question, now & in the future!

On Wed, 1 May 2019 07:17:16 -0000 (UTC), Arlen G. Holder wrote:

Is there a simpler freeware multi-page PDF-form-editing method for Windows?

SOLVED:
o Name: AcroRdrDC1901020099_en_US.exe
o Size: 163773488 bytes (156 MiB)
o SHA256: 178EA741121977D3A73D9AC916CB86FF20847FCDF0C9350530 3FBDB0EAB4CE81
https://i.postimg.cc/mDQvsdx6/pdfedit08.jpg

Thanks to the purposefully helpful advice brought to the potluck picnic
that is Usenet, particularly by Keith Nuttle (where others pitched in), we
have a working general solution which is described in detail over he
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.text.pdf/PFL16-iOxEo/_Ww0iRxDDAAJ

The main problem with that general purpose solution is that the default
Adobe Acrobat Reader DC web installer is about as sophomorically written as
an installer can be, in that it suffers from two nearly fatal flaws:
o It doesn't even ask where it should be installed, and,
o It wipes itself out as it's just a stub that doesn't archive well.

The latter issue is a problem in the same way that you store your tools
differently in your garage than your neighbor, and your wife stores her
utensils in different drawers than her neighbor - even as you all have the
same (or similar) tools & utensils.

Where you store your tools and how you store them...
o Should be completely up to you

And this _is_ up to you, for 99.9% of all the installers out there.
o Unfortunately, the Adobe web installer is in that 1/10th of 1 percent.

To resolve the latter issue, the full offline installer appears to be he
http://get.adobe.com/reader/enterprise/?scid=social46788336

For example, for US English on Windows 10, the full installer is he
http://ardownload.adobe.com/pub/adobe/reader/win/AcrobatDC/1901020099/AcroRdrDC1901020099_en_US.exe

Personally, I save offline installers to a mirrored hierarchy:
C:\archive\editor\pspdf\acroread\AcroRdrDC19010200 99_en_US.exe
Where I would then install that program into its app mirror:
C:\app\editor\pspdf\acroread\AcroRd32.exe
And where the WinXP-style accordion menus on Win10 point to the mirror:
menu app editor pspdf acroread.lnk

After saving this full offline installer, running it solves the second
problem, in that the full offline installer _asks_ where to be installed.
https://i.postimg.cc/pXpCtB6B/pdfedit09.jpg

The default installation is the idiotically organized
C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Acrobat Reader DC\
Where you can now install in a logical mirror hierarchy to everything else:
C:\app\editor\pspdf\acroread\AcroRd32.exe

In summary, if you want to have a general solution allowing a full
selection of fonts, sizes, and emphasis when electronically filling out
PDFs that are intended to be manually printed & filled out by hand & then
rescanned back to digital format, you can employ Keith Nuttle's suggestion
of the Adobe Acrobat Reader DC product, where I strongly suggest you eschew
the online web installer stub in favor of the full offline installer.
o Better way to edit PDF forms with any desired font using freeware?
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.text.pdf/PFL16-iOxEo

--
NOTE: The point is that _you_ choose the logical hierarchy; not others.

On 5/3/2019 10:52 PM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Thu, 2 May 2019 17:08:43 -0400, Keith Nuttle wrote:

there is more fonts in Adobe Reader than
in Word Perfect.

Hi Keith Nuttle,

*YOU UNMDERSTOOD & PROPOSED A SOLUTION THAT _SOLVED_ THE STATED PROBLEM!*

First, I wish to thank you for your purposefully helpful suggestions!
o You helped everyone because Usenet is a potluck picnic of tasty ideas
o We each bring the value we can for the benefit of the whole community

Thanks for your purposefully helpful corrections and clarifications, where
I should note that I was already very familiar with the payware Adobe
Acrobat's so-called "Advanced Editing" "Touch-Up Text Tool" features (at
least up to version 7, which is the last version that I had purchased),
where I show those older menus in this screenshot below of a typical
graduate school application form which is my testcase:
https://i.postimg.cc/s23jZRTJ/pdfedit02.jpg

I'm experienced with that Adobe Acrobat Writer "Advanced Editing" tool,
where I can easily make small edits within the existing text, but anything
that extends past the original line generally screws up almost everything
else, as you can see from this subsequent screenthot taken after making
small spurious edits to the original instructions with the Adobe Acrobat
writer changing the existing test instructions (as a test case only).
https://i.postimg.cc/J4vVLWwh/pdfedit03.jpg

To delve a bit deeper into the limitations of that "Advanced Editing" tool,
if you're extremely judicious with that "Touch Up Text Tool", and, if
you're lucky with line ends and form boxes, you can make small changes to a
document that aren't noticeable, but the moment you extend past the edge of
a text box, you're generally doomed, as it easily screws up the formatting:
https://i.postimg.cc/c4SZgS95/pdfedit04.jpg

However, as you correctly noted, the intent here was not to change the
form's instructions, but to literally fill out the form as you would fill
it out by hand.

I had never thought of using the "Comment" section to add those fields
though, as I think of comments as a sidebar of sorts, when reviewing
documents.

In fact, you may notice that this older Acrobat payware also has had the
"Commenting" & "Advanced Commenting" features all along (this is version 6
of the writer), but where the so-called "Advanced Commenting" feature
appears to completely lack the ability to change the fonts (AFAICT).
https://i.postimg.cc/cHf3hWQ5/pdfedit05.jpg

Hence, I simply "assumed" that the newer "reader" would also lack the
ability to change fonts - but that would be wrong!

To test whether the latest Adobe Acrobat DC (reader) has a font selection,
here's what I did after re-installing the (unfortunately badly written)
Adobe Acrobat Reader DC software on Windows 10 just now:
o I double clicked the multi-page document (which is to be filled out)
o It opened in the latest Adobe Acrobat Reader DC version 2019.010.20099
o In the right panel is a blue Convert button & yellow "Comment" below
https://i.postimg.cc/rmgfj5GH/pdfedit06.jpg
o As you noted, this step adds the "Comments Toolbar" above the document
https://i.postimg.cc/8kmJCNNt/pdfedit07.jpg
o And, as you noted, that enables a desired font for text form completion!
https://i.postimg.cc/mDQvsdx6/pdfedit08.jpg

Woo hoo! You solved the problem for this particular graduate student, where
the student asked me to fill out the form, knowing that nothing stops me
from editing any PDF (even PDFs that have encryption locks on them).

While I can't stand the badly written installer for that Adobe Acrobat
Reader DC freeware, most people aren't as incensed as I am when an
installer doesn't even ask where it should go - which makes your suggestion
PERFECT for me to explain to this graduate student how to annotate any PDF
in the future!

In short, your suggestion worked PERFECTLY for the stated goal of a general
purpose freeware solution to electronically fill in fields of PDF files
which were designed to be filled in by hand.

Thank you for ADDING VALUE to the Potluck Picnic that is Usenet!
o Your suggestion benefits EVERYONE with this question, now & in the future!

I am glad to help. I do a lot of research for genealogy purposes, and
use most of the ways Adobe provides to add "comments" to document
images, as I said we also use it to add reposes to forms.

--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre

On 5/4/2019 1:03 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Wed, 1 May 2019 07:17:16 -0000 (UTC), Arlen G. Holder wrote:



In summary, if you want to have a general solution allowing a full
selection of fonts, sizes, and emphasis when electronically filling out
PDFs that are intended to be manually printed & filled out by hand & then
rescanned back to digital format, you can employ Keith Nuttle's suggestion
of the Adobe Acrobat Reader DC product, where I strongly suggest you eschew
the online web installer stub in favor of the full offline installer.
o Better way to edit PDF forms with any desired font using freeware?
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.text.pdf/PFL16-iOxEo


An additional comment about adding responses to from. Even if you save
the original PDF document, the response remains as a comments and can be
deleted.

Once I have added all of the responses, and if the form is to become
official, to state, business, etc. I always print the completed from to
a PDF Writer. Once the completed form is printed to a PDF Writer, the
Responses become a permanent part of the PDF document.

For a document with responses, the is usually a blank for your
signature. I use the Fill & Sign option several lines below the Yellow
Comments. When you click the Fill&Sign, another toolbar comes up. On
the right there is a pen Icon with Sign. You can scan you signature,
add it to the Adobe Reader, and then add it to your document with the
responses, where it asked for the signature.


When I said add comments to documents found during your research I was
talking about source and citation for the document





--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre