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#61
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Pan Date header preference setting for time zone
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 02:41:35 -0000 (UTC), Henry Jones
wrote: On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 17:20:54 -0700, Mike Easter wrote: I would say/conclude it more strongly. On the basis of my observations, I am already convinced that Pan is not sending a Date line. I see no need for further investigation. While Pan didn't seem to be sendnig a date in the proto article, 40Tude does seem to be sending a date in the proto article. snip Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned doing a packet capture using tcpdump, and I'll add the Windows equivalent, Windump, just in case. I'm surprised that the thread has continued this long without anyone doing exactly that, since NNTP on port 119 is clear text. It seems that a packet cap would remove all doubt and simply settle things once and for all. As an old instructor used to say many years ago, packets don't lie. -- Char Jackson |
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#62
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Pan Date header preference setting for time zone
Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 02:41:35 -0000 (UTC), Henry Jones wrote: On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 17:20:54 -0700, Mike Easter wrote: I would say/conclude it more strongly. On the basis of my observations, I am already convinced that Pan is not sending a Date line. I see no need for further investigation. While Pan didn't seem to be sendnig a date in the proto article, 40Tude does seem to be sending a date in the proto article. snip Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned doing a packet capture using tcpdump, and I'll add the Windows equivalent, Windump, just in case. I'm surprised that the thread has continued this long without anyone doing exactly that, since NNTP on port 119 is clear text. It seems that a packet cap would remove all doubt and simply settle things once and for all. As an old instructor used to say many years ago, packets don't lie. This is what Wireshark with its included copy of WinPCAP is for. And yes, I have captured transactions to News servers with it - every time the server stops working :-) And port 119 is the only port that makes sense, as it's plaintext and easily readable. Even the summary window tells a tail, and the process is not hard to follow. Wireshark is multi-platform, so some details underneath will change from one platform to another. On MacOSX, only certain versions of Wireshark, work with each version of MacOSX, and the web site doesn't map it out for you. Leaving you with a horrendous testing task. On an OS with a working Repository, it should be easier to get working materials. Paul |
#63
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Pan Date header preference setting for time zone
On Wed, 06 Jul 2016 04:26:43 -0400, Paul wrote:
Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 02:41:35 -0000 (UTC), Henry Jones wrote: On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 17:20:54 -0700, Mike Easter wrote: I would say/conclude it more strongly. On the basis of my observations, I am already convinced that Pan is not sending a Date line. I see no need for further investigation. While Pan didn't seem to be sendnig a date in the proto article, 40Tude does seem to be sending a date in the proto article. snip Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned doing a packet capture using tcpdump, and I'll add the Windows equivalent, Windump, just in case. I'm surprised that the thread has continued this long without anyone doing exactly that, since NNTP on port 119 is clear text. It seems that a packet cap would remove all doubt and simply settle things once and for all. As an old instructor used to say many years ago, packets don't lie. This is what Wireshark with its included copy of WinPCAP is for. Personally, I prefer tcpdump on Linux because it's what I regularly use as part of my job, but I otherwise agree with you. I use tcpdump for captures and Wireshark if I need to do detailed analysis of a capture. And yes, I have captured transactions to News servers with it - every time the server stops working :-) And port 119 is the only port that makes sense, as it's plaintext and easily readable. Even the summary window tells a tail, and the process is not hard to follow. Many of the commercial NSPs offer plaintext access on a handful of ports, typically to get around corporate firewalls and proxy servers, but the NSPs I've seen discussed in this thread probably only offer that access on port 119. That should be enough to see what's going on. -- Char Jackson |
#64
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Pan Date header preference setting for time zone
On Wed, 06 Jul 2016 01:06:14 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:
Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned doing a packet capture using tcpdump, and I'll add the Windows equivalent, Windump I hadn't known it existed as I'm not a computer geek. So I only know what someone suggests. Googling, you'd never find this type of advice. Unless you knew EXACTLY the precise keywords, as typing Usenet and nntp and headers, etc., get you nothing in the area. Is this the primary Windump site? Is there a lot of impossible overhead, like there was with openssh? http://www.winpcap.org/windump/install/ |
#65
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Pan Date header preference setting for time zone
On Wed, 06 Jul 2016 04:26:43 -0400, Paul wrote:
This is what Wireshark with its included copy of WinPCAP is for. And yes, I have captured transactions to News servers with it - every time the server stops working :-) And port 119 is the only port that makes sense, as it's plaintext and easily readable. Even the summary window tells a tail, and the process is not hard to follow. Wireshark is multi-platform, so some details underneath will change from one platform to another. On MacOSX, only certain versions of Wireshark, work with each version of MacOSX, and the web site doesn't map it out for you. Leaving you with a horrendous testing task. On an OS with a working Repository, it should be easier to get working materials. I had already downloaded WinPCap and WinDump and I was working on downloading the WinPcap-recommended Riverbed airpcap for Microsoft Windows. http://www.riverbed.com/hk/products/...d-airpcap.html The problem, as a novice, is if people don't say, there are always a billion gotchas (like having to compile tcpdump and needing the pcap program). There is always the additional gotcha, especially with Windows, that you end up with the "wrong" (sneaky) version which is filled with adware and such. So it always helps to confirm that the "canonical" site is being used. It seems RIVERBED is the replacement for WIRESHARK based on the fact that wireshark isn't mentioned on the WinDump site but Riverbed has its own link. Is that a correct assumption? Or should I forgoe Riverbed in favor of Wireshark? https://www.wireshark.org/download.html |
#66
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Pan Date header preference setting for time zone
On Wed, 06 Jul 2016 09:38:14 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:
Many of the commercial NSPs offer plaintext access on a handful of ports, typically to get around corporate firewalls and proxy servers, but the NSPs I've seen discussed in this thread probably only offer that access on port 119. That should be enough to see what's going on. Thank you for adding value to the technical problem set! I also try to add value in every one of my posts so that all can benefit. The only ports I know of are 119 and 563 SSL in the free no-registration Usenet news servers available to the public. 1. news.dizum.net:119 blank/blank (read only) 2. news.mixmin.net:563[SSL] blank/blank (read/write) 3. nntp.aioe.org:119 blank/blank (read/write) 4. news.mozilla.org:119 blank/blank (special purpose) 5. freenews.netfront.net:119 blank/blank (read/write) 6. news.gmane.org:119 blank/blank (special purpose) So that only leaves port 199 in cleartext. If anyone here knows of other free no-registration text (not binary!) Usenet news servers, please let me know because everyone will benefit from that information. |
#67
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Pan Date header preference setting for time zone
Henry Jones wrote:
While Pan didn't seem to be sendnig a date In the process of trying to find Pan's 'departure' from sending a Date: header in earlier v./s, I've run across some docs that I hadn't seen before. The players in the Pan doc dept are Douglas Bollinger and Darren Albers. DA used to have a faq at his site, but the link is not working now. DB made an .xml doc back in 2007, which is also not very useful for this purpose. Probably the best place to communicate with 'Pan-people' is in the group on gmane gmane.comp.gnome.apps.pan.user or one of the other pan groups on gmane. -- Mike Easter |
#68
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Pan Date header preference setting for time zone
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 11:12:23 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:
Henry Jones wrote: While Pan didn't seem to be sendnig a date In the process of trying to find Pan's 'departure' from sending a Date: header in earlier v./s, I've run across some docs that I hadn't seen before. The players in the Pan doc dept are Douglas Bollinger and Darren Albers. DA used to have a faq at his site, but the link is not working now. DB made an .xml doc back in 2007, which is also not very useful for this purpose. Probably the best place to communicate with 'Pan-people' is in the group on gmane gmane.comp.gnome.apps.pan.user or one of the other pan groups on gmane. Thanks Mike, I appreciate that you add value in every post, which is useful, today, to everyone interested, and which is archived, for tomorrow, for all to benefit. For privacy reasons, email is problematic as I don't know how to register for a mainstream email nowadays without giving them my phone number. So I stay away from gmane, although I note that gmane does seem to have a no registration (i.e., login = blank, password = blank) NNTP gateway of some sort (which might not require email?). news.gmane.org:119 blank/blank The Usenet newsgroup, I think, is "gmane.comp.gnome.apps.pan.user", at least I think so, based on the search engine I found over he http://search.gmane.org/?query=%28x%...pps.pan.use r Disclaim: Take all of the above with a grain of salt since I *assumed* a lot up there in those statements since I have never tried gmane before. PS: Don't you think pan deserves its own "real" newsgroup? (How many people use pan anyway? Lots? Few?) |
#69
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Pan Date header preference setting for time zone
Henry Jones wrote:
Mike Easter wrote: In the process of trying to find Pan's 'departure' from sending a Date: header in earlier v./s, I've run across some docs that I hadn't seenbefore. For privacy reasons, email is problematic as I don't know how to register for a mainstream email nowadays without giving them my phone number. I don't give gmail a phone#; altho' gmail strongly prefers a cell# so that they can resolve lost passwords automatically by texting the cell. I simply give gmail an alternate email, decline the cell#. So I stay away from gmane, Like many many many other 'things', gmane posting requires an operational email address. However, gmane's TMDA system for obfuscating email addresses of posters is sufficiently protective of any email address which is used. PS: Don't you think pan deserves its own "real" newsgroup? news.software.readers is the best place for Pan-related stuff; and not crossposted to linux and windows. In some ways, Pan's decision to drop sending the Date header is an advantage. - it solves the glitches in the Date header which were described in the earlier versions - it satisfies some people who don't like their privacy infringed a tiny bit by the Date header disclosing their tz offset - not sending is 'harmless' because of the uniform policy of news servers to provide a Date header if it is missing -- Mike Easter |
#70
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Pan Date header preference setting for time zone
On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 05:18:16 +1100, Henry Jones
wrote: PS: Don't you think pan deserves its own "real" newsgroup? (How many people use pan anyway? Lots? Few?) I don't know how many, but my guess is that it's "few." I did a quick web search, but didn't find any statistics. Anyone know of a site that compares newsreaders by usage? |
#71
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Pan Date header preference setting for time zone
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 12:39:09 -0500, Henry Jones wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jul 2016 01:06:14 -0500, Char Jackson wrote: Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned doing a packet capture using tcpdump, and I'll add the Windows equivalent, Windump I hadn't known it existed as I'm not a computer geek. So I only know what someone suggests. Googling, you'd never find this type of advice. Unless you knew EXACTLY the precise keywords, as typing Usenet and nntp and headers, etc., get you nothing in the area. Is this the primary Windump site? Is there a lot of impossible overhead, like there was with openssh? http://www.winpcap.org/windump/install/ Personally, I use and prefer tcpdump (on Linux), but I believe that Windump's syntax is very similar. You'll first need to get a list of your interfaces: windump -D The interfaces will be numbered. Then, a typical command might be as follows: windump -nni 1 port 119 where '1' is the interface number and the rest is obvious. After that, you can add more options, such as '-s0' to capture entire packets and/or '-w path/file' where path is the path to your saved file and file is its filename, etc. Windump -h gets you a terse bit of help, or better yet, use the docs for tcpdump. -- Char Jackson |
#72
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Pan Date header preference setting for time zone
On Wed, 06 Jul 2016 12:37:08 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
I did a quick web search, but didn't find any statistics. Anyone know of a site that compares newsreaders by usage? Every once in a while some newsgroup post monthly figures, where they list the posts by various categories, including User-Agents. But I don't have any in my hand right now. |
#73
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Pan Date header preference setting for time zone
On Wed, 06 Jul 2016 09:38:14 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:
Many of the commercial NSPs offer plaintext access on a handful of ports, typically to get around corporate firewalls and proxy servers, but the NSPs I've seen discussed in this thread probably only offer that access on port 119. That should be enough to see what's going on. Just for the record, here is information about the date header from Steve Crook, admin of mixmin. The discrepancy between servers is almost certainly due to the INN version they're running. Mixmin is frequently updated against the development branch while (I expect) the others are running a stable release. You can view the relevent code for INN he- https://inn.eyrie.org/trac/browser/trunk/lib/date.c Look for the function: parsedate_rfc5322_lax The text on the last change to this file reads:- "Use -0000 instead of +0000 as the time zone in generated headers not at Universal Time nnrpd now uses -0000 as the time zone for Date: and Injection-Date: header fields it generates. It was previously using +0000, wrongly systematically indicating a local time zone at Universal Time when the localtime paramater is set to false (which is the default) in readers.conf. The +0000 time zone will now be used only if localtime is set to true and UTC is really the local time zone of the server. Improve the documentation of readers.conf, mentioning a use case for the localtime parameter. Thanks to Russ for it. convdate now similarly also uses -0000." The server (by default) adds a Date header in UTC but it can be configured to use localtime instead. In my case that would be confusing as the server runs GMT/BST to match my local time, not that of its location. Here is a test of the version of news software for various servers: 1. news.mixmin.net:563[SSL] blank/blank 200 news.mixmin.net InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.7.0 (20160520 prerelease) ready (posting ok) 2. news.dizum.net:119 blank/blank 200 sewer InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.5.3 ready (no posting) 3. nntp.aioe.org:119 blank/blank 200 nntp.aioe.org InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.5.4 ready (posting ok) 4. news.mozilla.org:119 blank/blank 200 news.mozilla.org 5. freenews.netfront.net:119 blank/blank 200 news.netfront.net InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.4.6 (20090602 snapshot) ready (posting ok). 6. news.gmane.org:119 blank/blank 200 news.gmane.org InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.5.1 ready (posting ok) 7. reader.albasani.net:119 login/passwd 200 news.albasani.net InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.5.3 (20110312 prerelease) ready (no posting) 8. nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com:119 login/passwd 200 nntpswitch.blueworldhosting.com NNTPSwitch-0.12-BWH, 76810 groups available, posting allowed, slot 1, connections 1 9. news.solani.org:119 login/passwd 200 news.solani.org InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.5.2 ready (no posting) 10. news.eternal-september.org:119 login/passwd 200 news.eternal-september.org InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.7.0 (20160704 snapshot) ready (posting ok) 11. reader.news4all.se:119 login/passwd ??? 12. news.sunsite.dk:119 login/passwd 200 news.sunsite.dk NNRP Service Ready - (posting ok). 13. news.giganews.com:119 login/passwd 200 News.GigaNews.Com 14. news.newsdemon.com:119 login/passwd 200 Welcome (fx28.fr7) |
#74
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Pan Date header preference setting for time zone
On 2016-07-06, Henry Jones wrote:
On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 11:12:23 -0700, Mike Easter wrote: Henry Jones wrote: While Pan didn't seem to be sendnig a date In the process of trying to find Pan's 'departure' from sending a Date: header in earlier v./s, I've run across some docs that I hadn't seen before. The players in the Pan doc dept are Douglas Bollinger and Darren Albers. DA used to have a faq at his site, but the link is not working now. DB made an .xml doc back in 2007, which is also not very useful for this purpose. Probably the best place to communicate with 'Pan-people' is in the group on gmane gmane.comp.gnome.apps.pan.user or one of the other pan groups on gmane. Thanks Mike, I appreciate that you add value in every post, which is useful, today, to everyone interested, and which is archived, for tomorrow, for all to benefit. For privacy reasons, email is problematic as I don't know how to register for a mainstream email nowadays without giving them my phone number. So I stay away from gmane, although I note that gmane does seem to have a no registration (i.e., login = blank, password = blank) NNTP gateway of some sort (which might not require email?). news.gmane.org:119 blank/blank gmane is a mailing list to UUCP converter, as such you can read mailing lists using a newsreader, and even attempt to post to them. most mailing lists will hold messages with unrecognides addresses, so for best results you should subscribe to the list before posting from gmane (after subscribing put your account in "vacation mode" so you don't get the list via email. The Usenet newsgroup, I think, is "gmane.comp.gnome.apps.pan.user", at least I think so, based on the search engine I found over he http://search.gmane.org/?query=%28x%...pps.pan.use r Disclaim: Take all of the above with a grain of salt since I *assumed* a lot up there in those statements since I have never tried gmane before. PS: Don't you think pan deserves its own "real" newsgroup? (How many people use pan anyway? Lots? Few?) gmane is mailing lists. -- This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software |
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