Windows 10 - probably FAQs

Thip wrote:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
news
These are probably many-times asked, but I've not seen them recently:

The "free 'up'grade" ends around the 29th. If you've downloaded the
(about 3G of) files before then, but stopped them activating, will
they still _run_ after that date? (And activate, and so on ...)

[I have no desire for W10, but being pragmatic, I might - in effect -
be forced into it at some time in the future. The one thing that above
all might force a lot of people - though with a hideous amount of
resentment - would be if service providers, such as ISPs, started to
insist on it.]

If it _will_ still run after the 29th, what settings do I have to
change in GWX Control Panel (and the Gibson thing) to (a) let it
download, (b) actually make it download, (c) prevent it from actually
_doing_ the 'up'grade?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

freedom of speech is useless if nobody can hear you.
-- David Harris -- Author, Pegasus Mail Dunedin, May 2002.

I just read this article:

http://www.komando.com/happening-now...ows-10-updates


"If you are within 30 days of your upgrade date, Microsoft included a
way to roll back to Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 if you're not satisfied.
Better yet, if you upgrade before July 29, even if you decide to roll
back, your upgrade is locked in and you could always install Windows 10
at a later date for free. Check out our how to go back to an older
version after updating to Windows 10 story to learn how."

I might go ahead and image my system, do the "upgrade," make another
image of 10, then restore my computer to 7.

Make a backup of Win7, install Win10, then restore
from your Windows 7 backup. Do *not* rely on the reversion
capability (available for 30 days) within Windows 10 itself.
It does not do a perfect job of reversion, and you will
hate yourself if you do it that way. You will keep noticing
little things that need to be fixed.

I checked the GWX compatibility report, and it said I had
"0 incompatible programs", which is why nothing got deleted
when I installed Windows 10. So my test case wasn't a really
good one, in terms of things going missing.

If you put your copy of Windows 7 back using a backup
image you make, you have the assurance that everything
is exactly where you put it.

*******

When I did the test install on the laptop today, I
switched hard drives (cloned over the Win7, so both
drives were the same). So that is functionally the
same as a backup and restore method, only it allowed
me to use a faster (newer) drive in the laptop.

I will not be keeping the Win10 image, because by 2020
the contents could be quite stale. And there
is no reliable information on how the OS would behave,
if it doesn't have a chance to "call home" over the
next four year period. It might need to be reinstalled,
using whatever media you keep around for the purpose.

If you use the GWX method, look in C:\$WINDOWS.~BT\sources
for an install.wim or install.esd. I haven't done that yet
on the laptop. That file can be converted into a DVD, using
this method.

http://deploymentresearch.com/Resear...y-tools-needed

To get a copy of oscdimg.exe, you get the WAIK stub installer
and there is a 70MB subsection of WAIK you download, to be
able to get a copy of that executable file. (The entire
WAIK is a multi-gigabyte download, so don't do the whole thing.)
I use this method on my Insider Edition install, to make a fresh ISO
every time the OS is upgraded. I have two Insider Edition
installs on one hard drive, and I upgrade the second OS
using the DVD I make (by actually mounting the ISO, not
by burning a DVD).

In the case of the release stream, you can certainly use
MediaCreationTool to just download 10586.xx , but using the
above method, you are leveraging your single 2933MB download,
to both install Win10 on Win7, but also use the delivered
material to make an ISO for a DVD for later.

Even if you don't take the time to do that recipe, you
can always take a copy of install.wim or install.esd and
store it for later. But at this point, I recommend setting
up the tools, because you never know when the method and
WAIK downloads are no longer available. To give an example,
there is a particular version of WDK on the Microsoft site,
that was removed, and there are *no* archived copies. I had
to use some ingenuity to find the executable I was looking
for (poolmon and gflags) and it turned out they were
available in another smaller download. The Internet breadcrumbs
can sometimes steer you in the wrong direction, resulting
in hair loss when you actually need some of these little
utilities. Grab a utility source, when you can get it!

I wish Microsoft would just put their stinking little utilities
all in one place, similar to the nice design of the
sysinternals.com site. I would like to find my poolmon.exe,
my gflags.exe, my nfi.exe, all in one place. For the most
part, the useful utilities don't have a lot of dependencies,
and would work as separate downloads.

Paul

Thip wrote on 07/02/2016 5:52 PM:

"If you are within 30 days of your upgrade date, Microsoft included a
way to roll back to Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 if you're not satisfied.
Better yet, if you upgrade before July 29, even if you decide to roll
back, your upgrade is locked in and you could always install Windows 10
at a later date for free. Check out our how to go back to an older
version after updating to Windows 10 story to learn how."

I might go ahead and image my system, do the "upgrade," make another
image of 10, then restore my computer to 7.

That's a much better plan than relying on the 30 day Win10 included 'Go
Back' feature.
- when imaging ensure your image on Win7 and Win10 contains the System
and Boot Volume.


--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience

In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

GWX Control Panel is my _default_ position. I was just wondering
what I have to do to make it _allow_ the download: remove it
altogether, or just change the odd one or two of its settings?
However, given the above, I probably won't be doing it.

It is likely to be manipulating two registry keys.

That means simply removing GWX doesn't guarantee anything.

There is a control called DisableOSUpgrade and there
is another one related to GWX itself. And by using the
buttons in GWX, you'd flip things back to defaults.

Thanks for that.

GWX doesn't even have to be installed. There is also
a "portable" version. So there isn't necessarily a
tight coupling between the two registry settings
and what you're doing to the GWX panel itself (deleting it).

As for today's recipe posting, the fifth step

5) If you are running Windows Update on manual,
now you can visit Windows Update and there will be
a banner advert and a tick box to start the download.

So that's how it came in. But it did not appear in
Windows Update, until the other steps were completed.
The GWX icon had to be there, you had to click the
button in the GWX panel, but there was no message as
to where to look next. And then, the next time I
visited Windows Update, the banner was present, offering
a Home version download of 2933MB or so.

If a machine is left downloading that, is it likely to also start the
upgrade on its own? This _probably_ wouldn't matter _greatly_, as I'd
almost certainly be putting 7 back afterwards anyway, but I suspect
there are questions asked during the install/'up'grade that default to
something if not answered in a given time, that I'd probably want to
choose different answers (to the defaults) to.

I've barely finished installing and haven't been playing
with it at all, but there does seem to be a difference in
behavior. On my multi-core desktop, I can have so much
OS maintenance activity, the hard drive is at "100%"
due to just maintenance. Whereas the first check on the
gutless single core laptop, there were little "bursts"
of CPU activity, but they were short lived. Almost as
if the maintenance is "dialed down" a bit, somehow. Now,
if I could only find that control, and switch it ON
on the desktop.

Paul

More loss of control ... [Brexit anyone?]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

_IMPORTANT INSTRUCTIONS_ BEFORE ALL TECHNICAL INTERVENTION ON THE [CASE CUT THE
ELECTRICAL FEEDING REGULAR MAINTENANCE PROVIDES THE GOOD WORKING OF A CASE (SEE
INSTRUCTIONS BOOK) [seen on bacon cabinet in Tesco (a large grocery chain)]

In message , Paul
writes:
Thip wrote:
[]
I just read this article:

http://www.komando.com/happening-now...ktracks-on-win
dows-10-updates "If you are within 30 days of your upgrade date,
Microsoft included a way to roll back to Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 if
you're not satisfied. Better yet, if you upgrade before July 29, even
if you decide to roll back, your upgrade is locked in and you could
always install Windows 10 at a later date for free. Check out our how
to go back to an older version after updating to Windows 10 story to learn how."

General opinion seems to be that the included reversion facility is far
inferior to just restoring an image. (I suspect the latter would be a
lot quicker, too! Not sure why I think that.)

I might go ahead and image my system, do the "upgrade," make another
image of 10, then restore my computer to 7.

I was thinking that if I bother at all, that's what I'd do ...
[]
I will not be keeping the Win10 image, because by 2020
the contents could be quite stale. And there
is no reliable information on how the OS would behave,
if it doesn't have a chance to "call home" over the
next four year period. It might need to be reinstalled,
using whatever media you keep around for the purpose.

.... until Paul said that.

If you use the GWX method, look in C:\$WINDOWS.~BT\sources
for an install.wim or install.esd. I haven't done that yet
on the laptop. That file can be converted into a DVD, using
this method.

http://deploymentresearch.com/Resear...LLY-create-a-W
indows-10-ISO-no-3rd-party-tools-needed

To get a copy of oscdimg.exe, you get the WAIK stub installer
and there is a 70MB subsection of WAIK you download, to be
able to get a copy of that executable file. (The entire
WAIK is a multi-gigabyte download, so don't do the whole thing.)

All good information - thanks; it just all is sounding increasingly hard
work )-:!
[]
I wish Microsoft would just put their stinking little utilities
all in one place, similar to the nice design of the
sysinternals.com site. I would like to find my poolmon.exe,
my gflags.exe, my nfi.exe, all in one place. For the most
part, the useful utilities don't have a lot of dependencies,
and would work as separate downloads.

Paul

Nah, too easy ... (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

_IMPORTANT INSTRUCTIONS_ BEFORE ALL TECHNICAL INTERVENTION ON THE [CASE CUT THE
ELECTRICAL FEEDING REGULAR MAINTENANCE PROVIDES THE GOOD WORKING OF A CASE (SEE
INSTRUCTIONS BOOK) [seen on bacon cabinet in Tesco (a large grocery chain)]

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 11:27:04 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

These are probably many-times asked, but I've not seen them recently:

The "free 'up'grade" ends around the 29th. If you've downloaded the
(about 3G of) files before then, but stopped them activating, will they
still _run_ after that date? (And activate, and so on ...)

[I have no desire for W10, but being pragmatic, I might - in effect - be
forced into it at some time in the future. The one thing that above all
might force a lot of people - though with a hideous amount of resentment
- would be if service providers, such as ISPs, started to insist on it.]

Get another ISP !

If it _will_ still run after the 29th, what settings do I have to change
in GWX Control Panel (and the Gibson thing) to (a) let it download, (b)
actually make it download, (c) prevent it from actually _doing_ the
'up'grade?

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 23:11:55 -0400
". . .winston" wrote:

That's a much better

Pure nonsense on you part, greg.

BTW are you ashamed of the name your
mother gave you?

In message , SteveGG
writes:
On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 11:27:04 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

These are probably many-times asked, but I've not seen them recently:

The "free 'up'grade" ends around the 29th. If you've downloaded the
(about 3G of) files before then, but stopped them activating, will they
still _run_ after that date? (And activate, and so on ...)

[I have no desire for W10, but being pragmatic, I might - in effect - be
forced into it at some time in the future. The one thing that above all
might force a lot of people - though with a hideous amount of resentment
- would be if service providers, such as ISPs, started to insist on it.]

Get another ISP !

Sigh squared. I didn't say my ISP (or any that I know of _yet_) is
insisting on it. But I can imagine them yielding under pressure to
insist on it, and when the majority do ...

If it _will_ still run after the 29th, what settings do I have to change
in GWX Control Panel (and the Gibson thing) to (a) let it download, (b)
actually make it download, (c) prevent it from actually _doing_ the
'up'grade?

(Replies - mainly from Paul - have told me. Sadly, it sounds far more
complicated than I'd hoped.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Everyone looks sun-kissed and beautiful and as you watch it ["Bondi Rescue"],
pale and flabby on your sofa, you find yourself wondering if your life could
ever be that exotic. (It couldn't. You're British.) - Russell Howard, in
Radio Times, 20-26 April 2013

On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 20:08:09 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , SteveGG
writes:
On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 11:27:04 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

These are probably many-times asked, but I've not seen them recently:

The "free 'up'grade" ends around the 29th. If you've downloaded the
(about 3G of) files before then, but stopped them activating, will they
still _run_ after that date? (And activate, and so on ...)

[I have no desire for W10, but being pragmatic, I might - in effect - be
forced into it at some time in the future. The one thing that above all
might force a lot of people - though with a hideous amount of resentment
- would be if service providers, such as ISPs, started to insist on it.]

Get another ISP !

Sigh squared. I didn't say my ISP (or any that I know of _yet_) is
insisting on it. But I can imagine them yielding under pressure to
insist on it, and when the majority do ...

ISPs aren't in the business of deciding which OS its customers can use.
A) How would they know?
B) Why would they care?

Even as I wrote 'A' above, I'm sure that someone will point out that your OS
is typically included in your web browser's User-Agent string, to which I
would say, first, that it's trivial to change what gets included there, and
second, the Internet is much more than the web. Bottom line, though, ISPs
don't care what OS you use. They never have, and I don't see a reason for
them to start.

--

Char Jackson

| Sigh squared. I didn't say my ISP (or any that I know of _yet_) is
| insisting on it. But I can imagine them yielding under pressure to
| insist on it, and when the majority do ...

I think Char is right. ISPs don't care, unless
something happens like MS giving them a kickback
on services income, which seems very unlikely.
The tech companies want to see the provider
companies defined as utilities, so that they'll be
unable to cut into profits. The only way I could
see ISPs getting involved would be if network
neutrality collapsed altogether and ISPs started
getting into services, or middlemanning the
equivalent of 900 numbers -- letting you buy
services from which they get a cut. For that
they *might* want to limit the variety of devices.
But that's a lot of ifs.

Another issue is software. At this point, just about
everything except Photoshop runs on XP. And PS
has been converted to subscription, anyway. But
everyone's case is different. For most people on XP,
there should be no problems for several years to come.
But if you use PS then XP is already outdated.

Another issue is hardware. Right now I can buy
boards, CPUs, etc compatible with XP. Eventually
that will change. Eventually there will be no drivers.
I built a new XP computer about 6 months ago and
bought a new HP Envy 5660 printer a few months ago.
No problems with XP drivers. XP usage is probably
roughly equivalent to all MacOS usage at this point.
It's still far more than Linux. That's not a market to
drop lightly. But one has to be on the lookout for
those issues with any hardware.

For Win7 you can probably add 5 years to the
XP numbers, at least. As long as Win7 is officially
supported there will be driver and software support.

Perhaps the biggest issue is one that seems unlikely:
It used to be that webpage design rule #1 was that
a webpage should be compatible and degrade gracefully.
That is, it should work in as many browsers as possible
and anything that doesn't work should just disappear
and not be a problem. For instance, if one wants to
add javascript rollover code to make icons change when
the mouse hovers, it should be done in such a way that
the page still works properly when javascript is disabled.
Javascript and Flash were always unnecessary but snazzy
extras.
These days, many corporate webpages are essentially
software programs requiring a download of several MB of
javascript, XML, etc. Companies like Google are flipping
webpage design priorities. They want to use the very
latest developments to provide the most possible
interactive functionality in their webpages. The result
is that they're going to extremes, often blocking any
browser that's not a recent version. They don't want their
pages to degrade gracefully. Many *want* their pages to
break if javascript is disabled. They've got lots of dynamic
content and complex datamining operations packed into
the page, and there's money riding on the page working
fully.
More software is also moving to subscription. Most
of that is fake. (Photoshop and Office 365 are both installed
locally and run locally. Only the subscription enforcement
and the pretense of "cloud service" requires online contact.)
Nevertheless, as more services run online and require
intimate intertwining with the browser and OS, that may
create OS and device support limitations.

All of that is to say that the first problem you encounter
with an older OS may very well be the last place you'd
expect: Not software, hardware, drivers, or ISPs but
rather online webpage functionality. If services really take
off you might find that you feel hobbled without Metro
applets. Or somewhere down the road Win7 may not
support futuristic browsers -- or whatever the services
interface is at that point. As the Internet turns into
interactive TV, Win10 will be transforming yearly to keep
up with the changes while Win7 will still be a computer
OS.

In "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

Sigh squared. I didn't say my ISP (or any that I know of _yet_) is
insisting on it. But I can imagine them yielding under pressure to
insist on it, and when the majority do ...

Yes.

The ISPs are going to force all their customers running OSX, Linux and
numerous other operating systems you've never heard of to switch to
Windows 10.

Of course.

--
St. Paul, MN

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 20:08:09 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:
[]
Sigh squared. I didn't say my ISP (or any that I know of _yet_) is
insisting on it. But I can imagine them yielding under pressure to
insist on it, and when the majority do ...

ISPs aren't in the business of deciding which OS its customers can use.
A) How would they know?
B) Why would they care?

Even as I wrote 'A' above, I'm sure that someone will point out that your OS
is typically included in your web browser's User-Agent string, to which I
would say, first, that it's trivial to change what gets included there, and
second, the Internet is much more than the web. Bottom line, though, ISPs
don't care what OS you use. They never have, and I don't see a reason for
them to start.

How about some new form of malware, against which the only form of
protection is some form of encryption/authentication/whatever. And say
(OK, it's unlikely, but say) the encryption/authentication/whatever
software only runs on Windows, and a given version of Windows at that.

When I say "the only form of protection", I mean that pragmatically: it
doesn't matter if that _really_ is the case, only that that is what the
ISPs' lawyers consider safe.

I don't expect it to happen any time soon, but that doesn't mean it
won't ever.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"When _I_ saw him, he was dead." "uh, he looked exactly the same when he was
alive, except he was vertical." (The Trouble with Harry)

In message , Bert
writes:
In "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

Sigh squared. I didn't say my ISP (or any that I know of _yet_) is
insisting on it. But I can imagine them yielding under pressure to
insist on it, and when the majority do ...

Yes.

The ISPs are going to force all their customers running OSX, Linux and
numerous other operating systems you've never heard of to switch to
Windows 10.

Of course.

(See previous post.) If they think they'll be held liable for what their
"unprotected" customers' machines do, you just watch them.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"When _I_ saw him, he was dead." "uh, he looked exactly the same when he was
alive, except he was vertical." (The Trouble with Harry)

On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:43:54 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Bert
writes:
In "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

Sigh squared. I didn't say my ISP (or any that I know of _yet_) is
insisting on it. But I can imagine them yielding under pressure to
insist on it, and when the majority do ...

Yes.

The ISPs are going to force all their customers running OSX, Linux and
numerous other operating systems you've never heard of to switch to
Windows 10.

Of course.

(See previous post.) If they think they'll be held liable for what their
"unprotected" customers' machines do, you just watch them.

I think it would be a major paradigm shift if ISPs would start being held
accountable for what passes through their networks.

Even if that were to happen, which is unlikely to the extreme, it would be
the content that would be policed, not the OS that generated or requested
it.

--

Char Jackson

On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 20:41:33 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 20:08:09 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:
[]
Sigh squared. I didn't say my ISP (or any that I know of _yet_) is
insisting on it. But I can imagine them yielding under pressure to
insist on it, and when the majority do ...

ISPs aren't in the business of deciding which OS its customers can use.
A) How would they know?
B) Why would they care?

Even as I wrote 'A' above, I'm sure that someone will point out that your OS
is typically included in your web browser's User-Agent string, to which I
would say, first, that it's trivial to change what gets included there, and
second, the Internet is much more than the web. Bottom line, though, ISPs
don't care what OS you use. They never have, and I don't see a reason for
them to start.

How about some new form of malware, against which the only form of
protection is some form of encryption/authentication/whatever. And say
(OK, it's unlikely, but say) the encryption/authentication/whatever
software only runs on Windows, and a given version of Windows at that.

When I say "the only form of protection", I mean that pragmatically: it
doesn't matter if that _really_ is the case, only that that is what the
ISPs' lawyers consider safe.

I don't expect it to happen any time soon, but that doesn't mean it
won't ever.

I think we're pretty safe going on record saying that that won't happen. ;-)

--

Char Jackson

crap snipped


It appears that this thread has drifted into discussing what geriatrics
used to do in 80s and 90s. My advice to the OP is to forget about
Windows 10 because he is too old to make use of and benefit from the new
features of 10. He should continue using what he currently has and
worry about 10 when he desperately needs it.

There is no point in getting 10 just because it is free. 10 can always
be bought in the future and all new machines I have seen so far comes
with 10 so nobody is missing out.

--
With over 350 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.