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O.T. HD, PSU review:



 
 
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  #31  
Old December 12th 18, 12:36 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 3:30:58 PM UTC-8, Mark Twain wrote:
I'm seeing most of the text grayed out with
only a few sentences in black text. Strange.


Robert



I meant for that post only,.. of course. I
usually see text in black

Robert
Ads
  #32  
Old December 12th 18, 12:41 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

I bought the (2) Seagate HD's:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16822148834

Robert
  #33  
Old December 12th 18, 03:53 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

Mark Twain wrote:
I was thinking about the size of the $91 Seasonic X
,. so I looked further and found this. It says it's
compact, 125 MM.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...24&ignorebbr=1

What do you think?

Robert


Yes, I noticed that PSU.

Did you notice it "looks weird" ?

That's an SFX, not an ATX.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX#SFX

"main difference is its reduced dimensions"

It doesn't belong in the "power supply bay"
of your computer. It's for another type of computer.
Apparently, there are adapters for SFX to ATX.

*******

So now you're back with the $91 one,
which is an ATX.

07, 08, 10
$90, $70, $75 $91
6.3" 5.5" 6.3" 6.3"

A lot of the candidates are the same size,
which you should check via visual check with
your scale. The 5.5" one, the housing can be
a bit shorter, because all the wires on that one
are fixed. (The cables don't unplug.)

When the supplies are modular, it adds to the
length of the casing.

If you think this isn't going to work, you
could shop for a lower power unit.

If you have a Kill-O-Watt meter, you can do a
total power measurement via the AC plug, and
that establishes the ballpark for each machine.

For example, I have a big video card in the Test
Machine right now. The Kill-O-Watt (which is currently
connected), reads 100W when the machine is idle.
It reads 350W when Furmark is running. It measures
around 200W when running Prime95. Those are examples
of tests that heat stuff up.

And based on that, I know roughly what size PSU
that would work for the system.

You have video cards which are similar to the
cards I normally buy, and I could probably easily
shave 100W off the size of PSU I buy today. I
could go shop for a 500W one for example.

If the casing is really too long to fit nicely,
you can go through the next lower range of supplies
and find one. Maybe it would be smaller.

You want an "ATX" supply, for the

3.40" x 5.90" x 6.30"
\___________/

Standard
faceplate
dimension

The SFX, the holes in the faceplate of your
computer, would not align with the threaded screw
holes on the SFX.

The ATX on the other hand, the screws line up, as well
as in some computer designs, there is a short "lip" that
sits underneath the computer case end of the PSU and
holds it up. That takes some of the weight off the
screws.

*******

I tried the 500W tier, and didn't really like what
I was seeing. Then I tried the 550W tier.

OK, this one looks sweet. First I put your $91 one for
comparison. Then the 550W one. You'll need to check the
wire length.

SeaSonic SS-650KM ATX12V 80PLUS GOLD $91
(+3.3V @ 25A, +5V @ 25A, 125W) +12V @ 54A, -12V @ 0.5A, +5VSB @ 3.0A
Modular, Fully sleeved, colored wires
3.40" x 5.90" x 6.30"

ATX connector (560mm) 20+4 pin
4 pin ATX12V connector (570mm) 1
8 pin EPS12V connector (570mm) 2
SATA (350mm+150mm) 2
SATA (440mm+150mm+150mm) 3
SATA (540mm+150mm+150mm) 3
5.25" Drive (350mm+150mm) 2
5.25" Drive (440mm+150mm+150mm) 3
5.25" Drive (540mm+150mm+150mm) 3
3.5" Drive (150mm 5.25-3.5" adaptor) 2
6+2 PCIe (580mm) 4

***

Seasonic SSR-550FM 80Plus Gold, Semi-Modular, ATX12V $66
(+3.3V @ 20A, +5V @ 20A, 100W) +12V @ 45A, -12V @ 0.3A, +5VSB @ 3A
Half Modular, some sleeves, black ribbon wiring
3.39" x 5.91" x 5.51" (140mm)

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817151203

That's about as low as I'll go on the lower rails,
and still buy a product. That's my exact limit on modern supplies.

The length of the cables for the 550FM is here.

http://www2.seasonic.com/product/focus-550-gold/

ATX connector (610mm) 20+4 pin
4/8 pin ATX12V connector (650mm) 1


SATA (450mm+120mm+120mm+120mm) 4
SATA (350mm+120mm) 2

5.25" Drive (450mm+120mm+120mm) 3

3.5" Drive (101mm 5.25-3.5" adaptor) 1
6+2 PCIe (675mm+75mm) 2


Paul

  #34  
Old December 12th 18, 09:40 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

I was also thinking about it
fitting the case and found this
as well:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...05&ignorebbr=1

what do you think?
Which looks better
to you?

Robert

  #35  
Old December 12th 18, 09:58 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

I found these pics of inside the 8500
from last year to give you an idea of
the layout:

http://i63.tinypic.com/72t069.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/ffddok.jpg

and the 780:

http://i65.tinypic.com/2zdvr14.jpg

Robert
  #36  
Old December 12th 18, 01:46 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

Let me see if you agree with this procedure;
if and when I do need to replace the PSU on
either the 8500 or the 780.

First I would connect all the cables to the
power supply. I assume that there's only one
socket/size per cable so I won't get them
mixed up?

Then one buy disconnect the corresponding cables
and replace each one one by one then remove the
old PSU and install the new one.

I did this on the 8200 and never having done it
before it seemed the safest way to do it. I have
no idea what I'm unplugging and plugging into
except the very basics.


In passing, how do I to tell if I need to replace
the PSU? When nothing happens when I turn it on?

What do you think?
Robert





  #37  
Old December 12th 18, 08:20 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

Mark Twain wrote:
I was also thinking about it
fitting the case and found this
as well:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...05&ignorebbr=1

what do you think?
Which looks better
to you?

Robert


When there is a "rebate card", you would only
normally get "one rebate per customer" unless
otherwise stated. That makes it $86.89 for the
first supply and $106.89 for the second purchased
supply (assumes this is a mail in rebate MIR).

For "instant rebates" applied by the seller themselves,
the rebate applies to every unit. If it's MIR, only
the first unit qualifies. This is normally stated
on the MIR PDF form you fill out ("one per customer").

MIR are a damn nuisance, and actually *reduce* sales
because of the policy involved. Instant rebates are great.

*******

I don't have a review. There's some chatter here about
the model lineup of Seasonic, but the provided picture
doesn't list everything they make.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14942

There's a "cables tab" here for cable length.

http://www2.seasonic.com/product/pri...ra-650-w-gold/

Seasonic SSR-650GD2 80PlusGold Modular ATX12V Compact 140 mm $107
(+3.3V@20A, +5V@20A, 100W) +12V@54A, ,
Modular, Half sleeved, black ribbon wire
3.39" x 5.91" x 5.51" (140mm long)
\__________/

That would be similar to one of the other ones I listed,
except the +12V is a bit higher rating. And part of
the price, pays for the warranty. You would need to
pay special attention to the warranty terms (sliding
scale or complete replacement).

To shorten the casing length, the rep on the JonnyGuru site claims
they remove the electrolytics on the loom board, but
that isn't necessary anyway. The output stage has a
capacitor bank, on the regulation circuit. The motherboard
has caps on its end, for bulk decoupling. The "cable caps"
make the oscilloscope waveforms look nicer in reviews,
but probably aren't absolutely necessary (unless they
short-sheeted the design, somewhere else).

It's funny to see the 100W rating on the low voltage
rails, on a 650W unit, but rules are rules, and this
one "just meets" my arbitrary rule for supply purchasing.
I'd still buy it for the casing length, and the supply will be
just fine with modern computers. Only one of my
older computers (like your old RAMBUS machine), might
I be a bit more concerned.

I can refine numbers a lot closer, and "shave to the
limits"... if I have a clamp-on ammeter and can measure
the current unit. Then power supplies can be selected
with more complete confidence. I *do* have some measurements
from my older systems, which didn't have sleeved
supplies, and I could get the clamp-on ammeter around
the wires. My current systems on the other hand, the
wires are sleeved, and the computer case is a mess, and I don't
have any measurements on stuff from the last 5-8 years.
You really need to do measurements like that, when doing
things like mini-ITX with Pico supplies, as those
never have margin and a build is "pretty custom".

So when I made up my rule, it was an attempt to
"guestimate" what would be sufficient. And my arbitrary
selection is 20,20,100. Some of the units in the
list, had 25,25,125 or so, which means "I can sleep
nites and stay calm". I only have one system here,
where I've measured and it hit 25 while gaming, and
the situation is obscure enough to be a "special case"
and not something to "enter the consciousness" today.
Modern systems don't use the +5V rail for the CPU,
and that's why it hit 25 amps.

There's nothing wrong with your selection, if you like the price.

It's got a SATA with four connectors, a SATA with two
connectors, a Molex with three connectors and a floppy
converter plugin. And as its fully modular, you only
plug in the cables you need.

Paul

  #38  
Old December 12th 18, 08:40 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

Mark Twain wrote:
Let me see if you agree with this procedure;
if and when I do need to replace the PSU on
either the 8500 or the 780.

First I would connect all the cables to the
power supply. I assume that there's only one
socket/size per cable so I won't get them
mixed up?

Then one buy disconnect the corresponding cables
and replace each one one by one then remove the
old PSU and install the new one.

I did this on the 8200 and never having done it
before it seemed the safest way to do it. I have
no idea what I'm unplugging and plugging into
except the very basics.


In passing, how do I to tell if I need to replace
the PSU? When nothing happens when I turn it on?

What do you think?
Robert


You replace the supply when:

1) Smell
2) Smoke
3) Flame
4) Obvious failure noises (crackling, still no smoke)
5) Herringbone pattern on analog NTSC TV set.
6) System crashes in BIOS or early in boot.
7) Not when getting weird crashes a couple times
a day. Check RAM first. *Then* replace supply.

The replacement method is:

1) Prepare drawing or digital camera pictures of current
setup. When colored wires are involved, you can notice
that "the yellow wire goes on the outside". It's
comforting to be able to double check visually,
on systems that still use colored wires. The new supplies
with all that black wire, are a curse.

2) The cables for the most part, are "shape keyed".
I have had posters though, who claim to have installed
cables reversed (flip 180), in *spite* of the shapes.
It must be nice to be that muscular. Someone managed
(somehow) to put an ATX12V 2x4 on backwards, and blew
a motherboard. I think they were pulling my leg :-)

A motherboard can have a 2x4 ATX12V, with a 2x2 plugged
into half the holes - for those, take a digital camera
photo before disassembly, so you'll remember which holes
they used. (If you don't do that, you have to consult
the manual to verify pinouts and assure yourself you
are doing it right.)

There are quite a few standards for server type stuff,
and if some of those entered the mix, you'd really want
to do a lot of research before doing a build or repair.
Consumer stuff you're working with, should be more
self-explanatory. There are some 2x4 plugs that *should not*
go into the motherboard. The total standards are screwed
up enough, if you buy an obscure enough power supply
(server), you could blow something. When they use yellow
wires, it makes it easier to spot "troublemakers" before
it is too late.

3) Originally, modular systems were not properly designed,
and the wrong cables could go in certain holes. (Maybe the
SATA cable would fit in the PCIe hole or something.) The
modern modular ones are pretty good on providing
visual cues.

*Always keep the spare modular wires in the box they came in*

*Do not mix modular wires from one brand with another*

4) You install cables "as you see stuff needing electricity".
Your motherboard has two cables, minimum. One for
main ATX, one for ATX12V to CPU. Some motherboards
have an Aux 6 pin, like your RAMBUS might have used
the Aux. Your modern systems will be the two cable minimum kind.

This site can be consulted if you need "hints".

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucon...onnectors.html

5) The SATA wiring on the replacement will have different
shaped cables than the original. A Seasonic with a four
SATA on one cable, and a two SATA on the other, you're going
to have to figure out whether that's enough for the SATA
drive layout of the machine. One cable could run to the
optical drive say, the second cable could run down to a
vertically oriented SATA, then tie up the excess cable
with a nylon wrap.

6) You can make visual rules as you go, like noting that
the yellow wire goes on the outside, for storage. On
new supplies with black ribbon, only the shapes on
the ends, control orientation.

As long as you kept sufficient documentation of the original
machine condition, it's pretty hard to completely foul this
up. The first time I did one on my own, I didn't have a
digital camera, and I suffered for the shortage of
pictures. I was scratching my head a bit on my
first swapout.

Paul
  #39  
Old December 13th 18, 01:55 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

I don't really pay attention to rebates
etc. they're more pain than they're worth.

It would be nice to just have a honest to
goodness bargain of 20 % off or whatever
without having to go through a rebate.

I'm wondering if yours isn't the better choice
did you read the last comment?

"Did Seasonic just become the first manufacturer
to sell the same power supplies under different
names and for different prices to let you pay for
the 2 years longer warranty?

What do you think?
Robert
  #40  
Old December 13th 18, 02:07 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

I copy/pasted your post for reference
later when I need it.

btw I had this FF update pop-up and
thought it was just a regular update
but it seems like Windows 10? So I
didn't update FF. Is this how FF is
going to look? So do I download?

http://i65.tinypic.com/2dlt9xj.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/8vuef5.jpg

If I need to download FF which one?
The solid green or the outline?

Thanks,
Robert
  #41  
Old December 13th 18, 02:31 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

Mark Twain wrote:
I don't really pay attention to rebates
etc. they're more pain than they're worth.

It would be nice to just have a honest to
goodness bargain of 20 % off or whatever
without having to go through a rebate.

I'm wondering if yours isn't the better choice
did you read the last comment?

"Did Seasonic just become the first manufacturer
to sell the same power supplies under different
names and for different prices to let you pay for
the 2 years longer warranty?

What do you think?
Robert


Well, that's your job as the shopper,
to pick the best one :-)

I'm not a big warranty guy, myself. The only
thing I use warranty for, is cars. You know,
"gimme a new cam shaft", that sort of thing.
Or "yes, I'd like new airbags please" :-)
The airbags on my car were replaced twice,
because I guess they weren't all that clever
on the first replacement.

But for small electronics, I'm not likely to
make a warranty claim, or buy an extended
warranty plan (the one all the electronics
stores try to sell you). Even my current
computer store tries to sell extended three
year warranties. For a $100 item.

I have had ATX power supplies fail. Some
Antecs, plus the no-name one in my first PC.

On hard drives, I haven't had a failure since
the Maxtor 40GB drives died.

And the price of hard drives is influenced by
the warranty terms. That's why they switched
from five year warranties, to shorter warranties
on hard drives. Some people enter the serial number
of a drive they bought, on the warranty page, and
discover the drive has no warranty at all
(serial number not in system).

Paul
  #42  
Old December 13th 18, 02:49 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

Mark Twain wrote:
I copy/pasted your post for reference
later when I need it.

btw I had this FF update pop-up and
thought it was just a regular update
but it seems like Windows 10? So I
didn't update FF. Is this how FF is
going to look? So do I download?

http://i65.tinypic.com/2dlt9xj.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/8vuef5.jpg

If I need to download FF which one?
The solid green or the outline?

Thanks,
Robert


"Download now" looks good to me.

They probably both do the same thing.

*******

Before you install, look in the Help menu for an
"About" option. It will tell you what version of
Firefox you are currently running.

And that might give a hint as to why it's taken
this route (of "begging" for an update).

*******

The current scenario is like this.

http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/

Dir 64.0/ --- the Release one you would want --+
Dir 64.0b10/ \ |
Dir 64.0b11/ \ |
Dir 64.0b12/ +--- Betas leading to 64_Release -----+
Dir 64.0b13/ /
Dir 64.0b14/ /

Dir 65.0b3/ These are lonely betas without the
Dir 65.0b4/ release to cap them off.

If you select a Beta file to install, you stay on
the "Beta Update Stream". If you select the Release
file (version 64.0), then you would be on the
"Release Stream". There's no "b" on the end of the
64.0 one. If they upgraded 64.0, it could be 64.1
or 64.0.1 or whatever, still no "b".

When you go to the web page as you have, that should be
the Release one. Using the web page with the Download Now
button should be perfectly safe and put you on the right
path.

I'm showing the "releases.mozilla.org" path above,
so you can see a download page that "has everything".
So if you had some other need, that page has everything
since they began making them.

I got on a beta release by mistake once, and just
about every time I booted the computer, Firefox wanted
to update itself. What a pain.

Once the new one is installed, you can do "About" from the
Help and check the new version number. And see how many
release versions that you've jumped.

Paul


  #43  
Old December 13th 18, 03:31 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

I think I'll go with your selection:


https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817151203

Thanks,
Robert


  #44  
Old December 13th 18, 03:31 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

I went to help and click About Firefox to
see which version I had and this popped up:

http://i67.tinypic.com/xckjtf.jpg

So restarted the computer

http://i64.tinypic.com/2akfi8y.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/2hxou8p.jpg

Robert


  #45  
Old December 13th 18, 04:41 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. HD, PSU review:

Now that we've selected the PSU,
I was thinking about getting
another APC Surge Arrest like
the one I currently have, just
in case it goes out.

https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/produ...-outlet/P-PRO8

What do you think?

I do get an abnormal amount of outages
here. When it rains or its windy the
power lines go out.

As I said, my outside box is fine now;
Although as added protection I have (3)
heavy plastic bags over it to keep it dry
but it's the power lines or transformers
or whatever that go out. Last time, I had
4 outages in a row.

I wish I had the $$$$ to go solar,. I live
in the desert so it would be perfect.

Thoughts/Suggestions?
Robert


 




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