The crazy cursor update

"RHB" wrote in message
...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil"
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 8:47 PM
Subject: The crazy cursor update


On 8/28/2019 1:57 PM, RHB wrote:
They suspect it's the mother-board. Any ideas. I don't know where to go
from here. Take it to another repair shop? Try and buy a MB and install
it
ourselves. I'd hate to have to recycle it because it's only 13 months
old
and my favorite LT.


Unless you experienced something that would physically damage the
motherboard, such as a large voltage surge, this sounds like a driver
problem to me. Unfortunately, it may not be an easy one to solve, but I
would start by thoroughly studying the System Error Log. That should give
you some idea what is failing.

All I can find is the event viewer. What is the relevent info there? I
see no "error log" anywhere there. The search feature a the botton left
next to the start button doesn't search the computer, just the net. Does
error log have another name under W-10?

There are thousands of errors. I have no idea what any of them mean.
Example: Kernel Event Tracing. Another is: VSS. And there's an ESENT. None
of them mean anything to me.

"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
...
RHB wrote:
They suspect it's the mother-board. Any ideas. I don't know where to go
from here. Take it to another repair shop? Try and buy a MB and install
it
ourselves. I'd hate to have to recycle it because it's only 13 months
old
and my favorite LT.

As others have mentioned, "They suspect it's the mother-board." mostly
means "We don't have a clue."

A hardware problem is possible, but sofar there is no indication that
it is likely. More likely are fscked up drivers, especially now these
clowns "updated all drivers", a big no-no in troubleshooting.

The same problem exiated before they ran thier anti-scumware, found nothing,
and reinstalled the OS. They did a System Recovery. I did another SR to
remove any drivers they istalled. The SAME exact problems remained.


See the advice of others to try the problem devices in the BIOS (easy)
or/and a bootable Linux (probably not so easy for you).

How do I find anything about devices in the BIOS? I see nothing on any of
the tabs that applies to devices such as keyboards, mice, motherboards etc.


And see my advice in your previous thread:

From: Frank Slootweg
Subject: Cursor went wild - W-10 HP laptop
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Message-ID:
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 12:01:38 -0000

When you respond, at least report what it says in Device Manager
under:

- Human Interface Devices
- Keyboards
- Mice and other pointing devices

For each of these categories, open them (by clicking on the right
trangle), list each of the members and check/list the Properties tabs of
these members.

I.e. for example:

Keyboards - Standard PS/2 Keyboard - right-click - Properties -
'General' tab - Device status - What does it say?

Of course screenshots are fine as well.

RHB wrote:

I have Linux on a DVD but there was no way to run it. How do I access it?

Either work out which function key (may need "Fn" modifier key on a
laptop) to use at boot time, to enter the settings BIOS and change the
boot order from HD to DVD, or which function key will give you a one-off
boot menu ...

On 9/1/2019 11:46 PM, RHB wrote:
"RHB" wrote in message
...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil"
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 8:47 PM
Subject: The crazy cursor update


On 8/28/2019 1:57 PM, RHB wrote:
They suspect it's the mother-board. Any ideas. I don't know where to go
from here. Take it to another repair shop? Try and buy a MB and install
it
ourselves. I'd hate to have to recycle it because it's only 13 months
old
and my favorite LT.


Unless you experienced something that would physically damage the
motherboard, such as a large voltage surge, this sounds like a driver
problem to me. Unfortunately, it may not be an easy one to solve, but I
would start by thoroughly studying the System Error Log. That should give
you some idea what is failing.

All I can find is the event viewer. What is the relevent info there? I
see no "error log" anywhere there. The search feature a the botton left
next to the start button doesn't search the computer, just the net. Does
error log have another name under W-10?

There are thousands of errors. I have no idea what any of them mean.
Example: Kernel Event Tracing. Another is: VSS. And there's an ESENT. None
of them mean anything to me.

The important information isn't the title of the event, it's what
happened to cause the error. Those details are provided, and you can do
a search on them to learn what they mean. Those who insist on "managing"
their computer have to be able to understand the errors.

Your other option is to toss the computer and buy another one, but next
time I'd suggest that you get something other than a Windows machine.

--
best regards,

Neil

On 2019-09-01 10:46 p.m., RHB wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Char Jackson"
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 12:43 AM
Subject: The crazy cursor update


On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 00:28:22 -0400, "RHB" wrote:

I think I'll download linux on this machine and try and install it on the
sick one.

As others have pointed out, you don't need to install Linux, you just
need to boot Linux.

How is Linux "booted" on a machine that runs windows? That LT has a DVD
drive but when I put the DVD with Linux on it, there was no way to run it.

Instead of loading an operating system from the hard disk as it does
with Windows, the computer loads the operating system installed on a
DVD. If your computer isn't loading Linux from the DVD, I reckon that it
wasn't installed onto the disc properly (burn the ISO onto the disc
rather than copy the file onto it) or the BIOS wasn't configured to load
from the CD/DVD drive first.

If that's too difficult, others have also pointed out that you can boot
into the BIOS setup screens and let it sit there, cooking, to see if
similar issues crop up. The whole idea behind these things is to take
your current Windows installation out of the picture long enough to see
whether the problem exists outside of Windows.

These things have been suggested several times already. I'll see if I can
locate those posts.

Thanks. I'll see if I can Google how that is done.

Ideally, you'd have someone in your immediate vicinity show you how to
do it. Once you see it and get a proper, direct explanation for it, it
becomes something of child's play. Unfortunately, written directions
such as these don't always translate because they don't factor in the
current context of what you're experiencing.

On 2019-09-01 11:41 p.m., RHB wrote:
"Neil" wrote in message
...
On 8/28/2019 10:56 PM, RHB wrote:


All I can find is the event viewer. What is the relevent info there? I
see
no "error log" anywhere there. The search feature a the botton left next
to
the start button doesn't search the computer, just the net. Does error
log
have another name under W-10?


(Event Viewer Windows Logs System) You might also want to check Setup
and Application logs. You will be able to see if there is a problem.


OK, Got it. I says

1,094 errors.
Warnigs 376
Information 5,680

And so on.............

What does info like that tell us? It's too much to type hundreds of these
here. The OS is brand new. Both the shop and I did System Recoveries.

And so on.............

As funny as this will sound, it's quite normal for there to be 1,094
errors in the logs. It's nice that someone suggested looking in there
but unless you know exactly what to look for, it's a mess and doesn't
reveal anything.

"Paul" wrote in message
...
RHB wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Char Jackson"
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 12:43 AM
Subject: The crazy cursor update


On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 00:28:22 -0400, "RHB" wrote:
I think I'll download linux on this machine and try and install it on
the
sick one.
As others have pointed out, you don't need to install Linux, you just
need to boot Linux.

How is Linux "booted" on a machine that runs windows? That LT has a DVD
drive but when I put the DVD with Linux on it, there was no way to run
it.

If that's too difficult, others have also pointed out that you can boot
into the BIOS setup screens and let it sit there, cooking, to see if
similar issues crop up. The whole idea behind these things is to take
your current Windows installation out of the picture long enough to see
whether the problem exists outside of Windows.

These things have been suggested several times already. I'll see if I
can locate those posts.

Thanks. I'll see if I can Google how that is done.

The "Popup Boot" key is what you want to learn about.

Take a recent computer I bought. A refurb.

F2 Enter BIOS setup
F12 Popup boot

In popup boot, you can select (at least) a "class" of
device to boot. My refurb has "boot from a CD" or
"boot from a hard drive". The reason I want to use
Popup Boot, is to override the habit of the hard
drive booting all the time.

So if the "default" boot is working OK for you,
you can try the Popup Boot key, just as POST appears
on the BIOS screen.

I see no "popup boot key" or "POST" appearing on the BIOS screen at any
time. There was something about having to be the Administrator to see or
change certain things. I'm not the Admin of that PC anymore since the
System Recovery.


If you cannot see POST text, your computer is set to
display a branded "Splash screen". On some motherboards,
you enter the BIOS setup, and untick the "Splash screen"
option.

That option doesn't appear. Just the usual 4 tabs.

Then, when the computer boots, you'll see some text
indicating what it is doing. This can also include
a text message announcing what the BIOS setup key
is and what the Popup Boot key is.

https://kb.wisc.edu/58779

HP Boot menu key = ESC or F9
BIOS setup = F10

I'll try it again and see how far I get.....



It could be ESC key or F9 key would allow
selecting the DVD.

And... don't forget. If the BIOS next pops up
"Press any key to boot from DVD" right after that,
you have only a few seconds to press the space bar
or similar to start the boot via the DVD. If you
don't press the space bar, the hard drive boots
again. This is handy when you're installing an OS,
but a nuisance at other times (like when running
a Linux DVD).

Thanks. I'll see what happens. Odd a hardware problem would not appear for
4 hours at one time and in only a few minutes the next time.


Paul

RHB wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
...
RHB wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Char Jackson"
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 12:43 AM
Subject: The crazy cursor update


On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 00:28:22 -0400, "RHB" wrote:
I think I'll download linux on this machine and try and install it on
the
sick one.
As others have pointed out, you don't need to install Linux, you just
need to boot Linux.
How is Linux "booted" on a machine that runs windows? That LT has a DVD
drive but when I put the DVD with Linux on it, there was no way to run
it.

If that's too difficult, others have also pointed out that you can boot
into the BIOS setup screens and let it sit there, cooking, to see if
similar issues crop up. The whole idea behind these things is to take
your current Windows installation out of the picture long enough to see
whether the problem exists outside of Windows.

These things have been suggested several times already. I'll see if I
can locate those posts.
Thanks. I'll see if I can Google how that is done.
The "Popup Boot" key is what you want to learn about.

Take a recent computer I bought. A refurb.

F2 Enter BIOS setup
F12 Popup boot

In popup boot, you can select (at least) a "class" of
device to boot. My refurb has "boot from a CD" or
"boot from a hard drive". The reason I want to use
Popup Boot, is to override the habit of the hard
drive booting all the time.

So if the "default" boot is working OK for you,
you can try the Popup Boot key, just as POST appears
on the BIOS screen.

I see no "popup boot key" or "POST" appearing on the BIOS screen at any
time. There was something about having to be the Administrator to see or
change certain things. I'm not the Admin of that PC anymore since the
System Recovery.

If you cannot see POST text, your computer is set to
display a branded "Splash screen". On some motherboards,
you enter the BIOS setup, and untick the "Splash screen"
option.

That option doesn't appear. Just the usual 4 tabs.

Then, when the computer boots, you'll see some text
indicating what it is doing. This can also include
a text message announcing what the BIOS setup key
is and what the Popup Boot key is.

https://kb.wisc.edu/58779

HP Boot menu key = ESC or F9
BIOS setup = F10

I'll try it again and see how far I get.....


It could be ESC key or F9 key would allow
selecting the DVD.

And... don't forget. If the BIOS next pops up
"Press any key to boot from DVD" right after that,
you have only a few seconds to press the space bar
or similar to start the boot via the DVD. If you
don't press the space bar, the hard drive boots
again. This is handy when you're installing an OS,
but a nuisance at other times (like when running
a Linux DVD).

Thanks. I'll see what happens. Odd a hardware problem would not appear for
4 hours at one time and in only a few minutes the next time.

You must do a "complete shutdown" on Windows 10, to
expect to have control over the machine during BIOS
POST.

Your symptoms suggest a machine which is either using
Fast Boot or is Hibernated.

"If you would like to perform a full shutdown, simply
hold down the SHIFT key on your keyboard and then
click the 'Shut down' option in the Start Menu, or
on the sign-in screen. This will immediately close
any open applications without prompting to save your
work, and completely shut down your PC."

There are probably other ways to do that. Like in
an Administrator Command Prompt,

shutdown /? # Review shutdown options

shutdown /s /f # Do it.

Paul

"Rabid Robot" wrote in message
...
On 2019-09-01 10:46 p.m., RHB wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Char Jackson"
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 12:43 AM
Subject: The crazy cursor update


On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 00:28:22 -0400, "RHB" wrote:

I think I'll download linux on this machine and try and install it on
the
sick one.

As others have pointed out, you don't need to install Linux, you just
need to boot Linux.

How is Linux "booted" on a machine that runs windows? That LT has a DVD
drive but when I put the DVD with Linux on it, there was no way to run
it.

Instead of loading an operating system from the hard disk as it does
with Windows, the computer loads the operating system installed on a
DVD. If your computer isn't loading Linux from the DVD, I reckon that it
wasn't installed onto the disc properly (burn the ISO onto the disc
rather than copy the file onto it) or the BIOS wasn't configured to load
from the CD/DVD drive first.

The same DVD worked on another laptop I finally gave away. The HD was dead.
But that one wasn't W-10 if that makes a difference.


If that's too difficult, others have also pointed out that you can boot
into the BIOS setup screens and let it sit there, cooking, to see if
similar issues crop up. The whole idea behind these things is to take
your current Windows installation out of the picture long enough to see
whether the problem exists outside of Windows.

I had it sitting for hours last night in the BIOS screens. But with no
cursor to go crazy, no touch screen and pad to die - I learned nothing. It
just sat there.


These things have been suggested several times already. I'll see if I
can
locate those posts.

Thanks. I'll see if I can Google how that is done.


Ideally, you'd have someone in your immediate vicinity show you how to
do it. Once you see it and get a proper, direct explanation for it, it
becomes something of child's play. Unfortunately, written directions
such as these don't always translate because they don't factor in the
current context of what you're experiencing.

I agree.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
RHB wrote:

I have Linux on a DVD but there was no way to run it. How do I access
it?

Either work out which function key (may need "Fn" modifier key on a
laptop) to use at boot time, to enter the settings BIOS and change the
boot order from HD to DVD, or which function key will give you a one-off
boot menu ...

I didn't see that on the 4 BIOS screens. There was a message that said
without being an Admisistrator I couldn't make any changes. So I guess any
changes on those BIOS screens are hidden from my view. I despise W-10.

"Rabid Robot" wrote in message
...
On 2019-09-01 11:41 p.m., RHB wrote:
"Neil" wrote in message
...
On 8/28/2019 10:56 PM, RHB wrote:


All I can find is the event viewer. What is the relevent info there?
I
see
no "error log" anywhere there. The search feature a the botton left
next
to
the start button doesn't search the computer, just the net. Does error
log
have another name under W-10?


(Event Viewer Windows Logs System) You might also want to check
Setup
and Application logs. You will be able to see if there is a problem.


OK, Got it. I says

1,094 errors.
Warnigs 376
Information 5,680

And so on.............

What does info like that tell us? It's too much to type hundreds of these
here. The OS is brand new. Both the shop and I did System Recoveries.

And so on.............


As funny as this will sound, it's quite normal for there to be 1,094
errors in the logs. It's nice that someone suggested looking in there
but unless you know exactly what to look for, it's a mess and doesn't
reveal anything.

I haven't a clue what to look for. It's a mess alright. I found all those
errors odd because a System Recovery was done twice. And yet at times it'll
run great for at least 4 hrs before going off the rails. Another time it
will run great for only a few minutes.

"Neil" wrote in message
...
On 9/1/2019 11:46 PM, RHB wrote:
"RHB" wrote in message
...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil"
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 8:47 PM
Subject: The crazy cursor update


On 8/28/2019 1:57 PM, RHB wrote:
They suspect it's the mother-board. Any ideas. I don't know where to
go
from here. Take it to another repair shop? Try and buy a MB and
install
it
ourselves. I'd hate to have to recycle it because it's only 13 months
old
and my favorite LT.


Unless you experienced something that would physically damage the
motherboard, such as a large voltage surge, this sounds like a driver
problem to me. Unfortunately, it may not be an easy one to solve, but I
would start by thoroughly studying the System Error Log. That should
give
you some idea what is failing.

All I can find is the event viewer. What is the relevent info there? I
see no "error log" anywhere there. The search feature a the botton left
next to the start button doesn't search the computer, just the net. Does
error log have another name under W-10?

There are thousands of errors. I have no idea what any of them mean.
Example: Kernel Event Tracing. Another is: VSS. And there's an ESENT.
None
of them mean anything to me.

The important information isn't the title of the event, it's what
happened to cause the error. Those details are provided, and you can do a
search on them to learn what they mean. Those who insist on "managing"
their computer have to be able to understand the errors.

With thousands of errors after two System Restores, with a virgin system so
to speak - what chance would I have to look up, understand and fix them,
thousands of them - myself? I'll look up some of them and see if I can
figure out if it's a hardware problem. I can't see it being a software
problem.

Your other option is to toss the computer and buy another one, but next
time I'd suggest that you get something other than a Windows machine.

That's crossed my mind.


--
best regards,

Neil

On 2019-09-02 11:47 a.m., RHB wrote:
"Rabid Robot" wrote in message
...
On 2019-09-01 10:46 p.m., RHB wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Char Jackson"
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 12:43 AM
Subject: The crazy cursor update


On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 00:28:22 -0400, "RHB" wrote:

I think I'll download linux on this machine and try and install it on
the
sick one.

As others have pointed out, you don't need to install Linux, you just
need to boot Linux.

How is Linux "booted" on a machine that runs windows? That LT has a DVD
drive but when I put the DVD with Linux on it, there was no way to run
it.

Instead of loading an operating system from the hard disk as it does
with Windows, the computer loads the operating system installed on a
DVD. If your computer isn't loading Linux from the DVD, I reckon that it
wasn't installed onto the disc properly (burn the ISO onto the disc
rather than copy the file onto it) or the BIOS wasn't configured to load
from the CD/DVD drive first.

The same DVD worked on another laptop I finally gave away. The HD was dead.
But that one wasn't W-10 if that makes a difference.

It makes no difference. If it doesn't work, the BIOS is simply not set
up to try booting from the CD/DVD first. It might ignore the DVD
entirely and try booting solely from the hard disk.

If that's too difficult, others have also pointed out that you can boot
into the BIOS setup screens and let it sit there, cooking, to see if
similar issues crop up. The whole idea behind these things is to take
your current Windows installation out of the picture long enough to see
whether the problem exists outside of Windows.

I had it sitting for hours last night in the BIOS screens. But with no
cursor to go crazy, no touch screen and pad to die - I learned nothing. It
just sat there.

The next time you go in there, look for "boot" somewhere in the panels
to see if you can configure it to actually try loading from the DVD
drive before it moves on to the hard disk.

On 2019-09-02 11:51 a.m., RHB wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
RHB wrote:

I have Linux on a DVD but there was no way to run it. How do I access
it?

Either work out which function key (may need "Fn" modifier key on a
laptop) to use at boot time, to enter the settings BIOS and change the
boot order from HD to DVD, or which function key will give you a one-off
boot menu ...

I didn't see that on the 4 BIOS screens. There was a message that said
without being an Admisistrator I couldn't make any changes. So I guess any
changes on those BIOS screens are hidden from my view. I despise W-10.

What you just saw were _not_ BIOS screens.

Generally, if you manage to enter the BIOS, you already have
Administrator access. What you saw were most likely the Windows 10
recovery options.

No offense but you're not very good at paying attention to the direction
you're getting here.

On 2019-09-02 11:56 a.m., RHB wrote:
"Rabid Robot" wrote in message
...
On 2019-09-01 11:41 p.m., RHB wrote:
"Neil" wrote in message
...
On 8/28/2019 10:56 PM, RHB wrote:


All I can find is the event viewer. What is the relevent info there?
I
see
no "error log" anywhere there. The search feature a the botton left
next
to
the start button doesn't search the computer, just the net. Does error
log
have another name under W-10?


(Event Viewer Windows Logs System) You might also want to check
Setup
and Application logs. You will be able to see if there is a problem.


OK, Got it. I says

1,094 errors.
Warnigs 376
Information 5,680

And so on.............

What does info like that tell us? It's too much to type hundreds of these
here. The OS is brand new. Both the shop and I did System Recoveries.

And so on.............


As funny as this will sound, it's quite normal for there to be 1,094
errors in the logs. It's nice that someone suggested looking in there
but unless you know exactly what to look for, it's a mess and doesn't
reveal anything.

I haven't a clue what to look for. It's a mess alright. I found all those
errors odd because a System Recovery was done twice. And yet at times it'll
run great for at least 4 hrs before going off the rails. Another time it
will run great for only a few minutes.

1) What are you doing on the computer when it dies out after a minutes?

2) Similarly, what are you doing on the computer when it runs fine for
hours?

Before you start going off on a tangent describing something completely
unrelated, please answer those questions.