XP Pro SP2, Vista & Vienna -- A Useful Progression?

Microsoft Vienna may well be worth the wait, if it is indeed as radical a
redesign as this indicates:
--------------------------------------------------

Windows Vienna - opening a new generation of operating systems

September 7, 2006

In the past 20 years, the Microsoft Windows operating system has accumulated
old code libraries that brought it to the size it has today, 2.5 GB and
about 50 million lines of code (Windows Vista).

These old code libraries consume resources and are often the targets of
security exploits.

The best way to avoid such problems, is to start from scratch, which is
close to what Microsoft plans to do with Windows Vienna.

Windows Vienna will represent the start of a different generation of
operating systems, bringing in new concepts and support for new types of
hardware, along with a better security and a modular approach, which will
allow future versions of Windows to be built more easily on Windows Vienna's
engine.

It is also likely that the future success of Microsoft's products will be
strongly decided by the success of the new generation operating system.

http://www.windowsvienna.com/
------------------------------------------------------

STARTING FROM SCRATCH...

Sounds Quite Sensible...

Waiting for Vienna, if one can, sounds increasingly attractive.

XP Pro SP2 is a sweet OS.

Vista may turn out to be as transient and inconsequential as Millennium --
IF we can have Vienna in 2009.

--------------------------------------------------

New, But Associated Subject:

I agree with Jerry, "HEMI-Powered" [what's your moniker mean, Jerry?], that
I will NEVER leave any of my machines alone at night -- or any other time --
to do a DEFRAG or a DISK IMAGE or a WINDOWS or AV UPDATE -- all by ITSELF.

So, this silly-buggers business of "scheduling a weekly backup/download at
3AM" is absurd.

I also will never allow the cursed AUTOMATIC UPDATES on any of my
machines -- even for my Anti-Virus/Anti-Spyware programs and Windows
Update -- which would love to put IE7 on all my machines if I let it --
because MS insists IE7 is a "CRITICAL UPDATE".

Baloney et Twaddle!

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Most companies that start again from scratch go broke.

Perhaps Microsoft will build new technologies into Vienna like they built
virtualisation and search into Vista - hold on, they were in 2000 and XP
too.

So look at features you already have then get ready to upgrade so you will
use them. Because the evidence is if MS doesn't say it's a feature noone
will use it.

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
...
Microsoft Vienna may well be worth the wait, if it is indeed as radical a
redesign as this indicates:
--------------------------------------------------

Windows Vienna - opening a new generation of operating systems

September 7, 2006

In the past 20 years, the Microsoft Windows operating system has
accumulated
old code libraries that brought it to the size it has today, 2.5 GB and
about 50 million lines of code (Windows Vista).

These old code libraries consume resources and are often the targets of
security exploits.

The best way to avoid such problems, is to start from scratch, which is
close to what Microsoft plans to do with Windows Vienna.

Windows Vienna will represent the start of a different generation of
operating systems, bringing in new concepts and support for new types of
hardware, along with a better security and a modular approach, which will
allow future versions of Windows to be built more easily on Windows
Vienna's
engine.

It is also likely that the future success of Microsoft's products will be
strongly decided by the success of the new generation operating system.

http://www.windowsvienna.com/
------------------------------------------------------

STARTING FROM SCRATCH...

Sounds Quite Sensible...

Waiting for Vienna, if one can, sounds increasingly attractive.

XP Pro SP2 is a sweet OS.

Vista may turn out to be as transient and inconsequential as Millennium --
IF we can have Vienna in 2009.

--------------------------------------------------

New, But Associated Subject:

I agree with Jerry, "HEMI-Powered" [what's your moniker mean, Jerry?],
that
I will NEVER leave any of my machines alone at night -- or any other
time --
to do a DEFRAG or a DISK IMAGE or a WINDOWS or AV UPDATE -- all by ITSELF.

So, this silly-buggers business of "scheduling a weekly backup/download at
3AM" is absurd.

I also will never allow the cursed AUTOMATIC UPDATES on any of my
machines -- even for my Anti-Virus/Anti-Spyware programs and Windows
Update -- which would love to put IE7 on all my machines if I let it --
because MS insists IE7 is a "CRITICAL UPDATE".

Baloney et Twaddle!

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Hum...it took MS 5+ years to chisel out a new wheel. What's going to happen
when they try to make a whole new wheel?


. wrote in message ...
Most companies that start again from scratch go broke.

Perhaps Microsoft will build new technologies into Vienna like they built
virtualisation and search into Vista - hold on, they were in 2000 and XP
too.

So look at features you already have then get ready to upgrade so you will
use them. Because the evidence is if MS doesn't say it's a feature noone
will use it.

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
...
Microsoft Vienna may well be worth the wait, if it is indeed as radical a
redesign as this indicates:
--------------------------------------------------

Windows Vienna - opening a new generation of operating systems

September 7, 2006

In the past 20 years, the Microsoft Windows operating system has
accumulated
old code libraries that brought it to the size it has today, 2.5 GB and
about 50 million lines of code (Windows Vista).

These old code libraries consume resources and are often the targets of
security exploits.

The best way to avoid such problems, is to start from scratch, which is
close to what Microsoft plans to do with Windows Vienna.

Windows Vienna will represent the start of a different generation of
operating systems, bringing in new concepts and support for new types of
hardware, along with a better security and a modular approach, which will
allow future versions of Windows to be built more easily on Windows
Vienna's
engine.

It is also likely that the future success of Microsoft's products will be
strongly decided by the success of the new generation operating system.

http://www.windowsvienna.com/
------------------------------------------------------

STARTING FROM SCRATCH...

Sounds Quite Sensible...

Waiting for Vienna, if one can, sounds increasingly attractive.

XP Pro SP2 is a sweet OS.

Vista may turn out to be as transient and inconsequential as
Millennium -- IF we can have Vienna in 2009.

--------------------------------------------------

New, But Associated Subject:

I agree with Jerry, "HEMI-Powered" [what's your moniker mean, Jerry?],
that
I will NEVER leave any of my machines alone at night -- or any other
time --
to do a DEFRAG or a DISK IMAGE or a WINDOWS or AV UPDATE -- all by
ITSELF.

So, this silly-buggers business of "scheduling a weekly backup/download
at
3AM" is absurd.

I also will never allow the cursed AUTOMATIC UPDATES on any of my
machines -- even for my Anti-Virus/Anti-Spyware programs and Windows
Update -- which would love to put IE7 on all my machines if I let it --
because MS insists IE7 is a "CRITICAL UPDATE".

Baloney et Twaddle!

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Today, Justin made these interesting comments ...

Hum...it took MS 5+ years to chisel out a new wheel. What's
going to happen when they try to make a whole new wheel?

I've done software and I know the car biz pretty well. Both are
similar in this way: future "models" are ALWAYS under development
in a staggered schedule depending on the make and model being
updated or completely redone, meaning MS has many products, not
just Windows, and it must keep its own product offerings in synch
with anything that might partially or completely obsolete them. I
would expect that the business decisions can get pretty dicey. But,
back to the car biz, the trend is to stop completely redoing an
entire vehicle line with all-new everything including drrive-train
every 4-5 years because it is so expensive and quality suffers on
every all-new launch - that's true for ALL car makers, BTW. So,
most of the world's car makers are angling for what are being
called decade platforms, meaning the basic stuff that is so
expensive will be somewhat static and the cosmetics will change,
along with feature and drivetrain upgrades as needed. I would
speculate that MS is thinking along similar lines for its software.
But, eventually, anyone making anything soft, firm, or hard HAS to
start from a clean sheet of paper ...

[snip]
--
HP, aka Jerry

"HEMI-Powered" wrote in message
...
I've done software and I know the car biz pretty well. Both are
similar in this way: future "models" are ALWAYS under development
in a staggered schedule depending on the make and model being
updated or completely redone, meaning MS has many products, not
just Windows, and it must keep its own product offerings in synch
with anything that might partially or completely obsolete them. I
would expect that the business decisions can get pretty dicey. But,
back to the car biz, the trend is to stop completely redoing an
entire vehicle line with all-new everything including drrive-train
every 4-5 years because it is so expensive and quality suffers on
every all-new launch - that's true for ALL car makers, BTW. So,
most of the world's car makers are angling for what are being
called decade platforms, meaning the basic stuff that is so
expensive will be somewhat static and the cosmetics will change,
along with feature and drivetrain upgrades as needed. I would
speculate that MS is thinking along similar lines for its software.
But, eventually, anyone making anything soft, firm, or hard HAS to
start from a clean sheet of paper ...

The only problem I see with this analogy is that every vehicle I've been in
has a steering wheel, gas peddle, brake peddle, gear shift, common seating,
standard set of 4-6 tires..... I think you get the drift. They chisel out
new models, they don't reinvent the entire wheel. More times then not, they
even use the same old frame. With the exception of some new trucks hitting
the road soon (and now) have they made updates to the frame. However, even
when they do update the frame they TWEAK IT, make it better.

Today, Justin made these interesting comments ...

"HEMI-Powered" wrote in message
...
I've done software and I know the car biz pretty well. Both
are similar in this way: future "models" are ALWAYS under
development in a staggered schedule depending on the make and
model being updated or completely redone, meaning MS has many
products, not just Windows, and it must keep its own product
offerings in synch with anything that might partially or
completely obsolete them. I would expect that the business
decisions can get pretty dicey. But, back to the car biz, the
trend is to stop completely redoing an entire vehicle line
with all-new everything including drrive-train every 4-5
years because it is so expensive and quality suffers on every
all-new launch - that's true for ALL car makers, BTW. So,
most of the world's car makers are angling for what are being
called decade platforms, meaning the basic stuff that is so
expensive will be somewhat static and the cosmetics will
change, along with feature and drivetrain upgrades as needed.
I would speculate that MS is thinking along similar lines for
its software. But, eventually, anyone making anything soft,
firm, or hard HAS to start from a clean sheet of paper ...

The only problem I see with this analogy is that every vehicle
I've been in has a steering wheel, gas peddle, brake peddle,
gear shift, common seating, standard set of 4-6 tires..... I
think you get the drift. They chisel out new models, they
don't reinvent the entire wheel. More times then not, they
even use the same old frame. With the exception of some new
trucks hitting the road soon (and now) have they made updates
to the frame. However, even when they do update the frame
they TWEAK IT, make it better.

I tried to separate basic design principles of all motor vehicles
for the past 100+ years from the problems associated with simply
redoing an older car. A major new vehicle STARTS at $2B and
quickly goes up depending on a great many factors. Chief big
hitters are design, development, testing, tooling, robots in the
plants, etc., what finance bean counters call investment cost.

As to your last, new trucks with body-on-frame now coming to
market, e.g., the new GM pickups, are so completely redesigned by
CAD and CAE systems that their stiffness is raised 40-50%, which
translates into better handling, less noise, tighter feel, lots
of things. There is far, far more under the cosmetic stuff than
you'd believe. Easy example, there are some 25 computers in my
2006 Charger, talking to each other largely with multiplexed
wiring systems. The exact number of lines of code is secret, of
course, but based on what I knew as long ago as 2002 when I
retired, it is AT LEAST as many as Vista. But, unlike Windows,
which you can restart, people can't pull over and reboot their
cars.

And, no, folks, I'm NOT just spewing babble about Chrysler.
Everything I say is true to a great degree for ALL car makers,
and has been especially effective for the Asians. It is not at
all uncommon for 4,000 pound performance sedans - again, all
makes - to have performance in excess of the halcyon muscle car
days, are absolutely clean, and get 3X-4X the fuel economy. My
Charger, with its ability to shut 4 of the 8 cylinders down,
ditto for the other guys that can do this, CAN get close to its
city CAFE of 17, and I have gotten, 22, 23, 24+ on the highway,
to its highway CAFE of 25.

If you really want to take the car biz into this NG, which is
pretty OT, we should start a new thread.

--
HP, aka Jerry

Many large software projects fail. Cars are simple compared to software. I
heard many companies say the will start again then go bankrupt. They may do
sections of windows all new but not everything. The amount of code in
windows to handle exceptional things would be high and would increase with
every bugfix. This is a lot of value that can only be recreated by spending
years fixing bugs.
"HEMI-Powered" wrote in message
...
Today, Justin made these interesting comments ...

Hum...it took MS 5+ years to chisel out a new wheel. What's
going to happen when they try to make a whole new wheel?

I've done software and I know the car biz pretty well. Both are
similar in this way: future "models" are ALWAYS under development
in a staggered schedule depending on the make and model being
updated or completely redone, meaning MS has many products, not
just Windows, and it must keep its own product offerings in synch
with anything that might partially or completely obsolete them. I
would expect that the business decisions can get pretty dicey. But,
back to the car biz, the trend is to stop completely redoing an
entire vehicle line with all-new everything including drrive-train
every 4-5 years because it is so expensive and quality suffers on
every all-new launch - that's true for ALL car makers, BTW. So,
most of the world's car makers are angling for what are being
called decade platforms, meaning the basic stuff that is so
expensive will be somewhat static and the cosmetics will change,
along with feature and drivetrain upgrades as needed. I would
speculate that MS is thinking along similar lines for its software.
But, eventually, anyone making anything soft, firm, or hard HAS to
start from a clean sheet of paper ...

[snip]
--
HP, aka Jerry

"Justin" wrote in message
...
Hum...it took MS 5+ years to chisel out a new wheel. What's going to
happen when they try to make a whole new wheel?

Mu guess is they'll just do what they always do.
Add more patches & service packs on top of the old OS, make a bunch of
unneeded changes to the UI like renanimg and relocating everything to fool
the fanboys, toss in some more eyecandy then release it and call it a new OS
....again.
And once again guys like you will just lap it up.

New wheel? pfffft a shiny new hubcap maybe
Same as it ever was...





. wrote in message ...
Most companies that start again from scratch go broke.

Perhaps Microsoft will build new technologies into Vienna like they built
virtualisation and search into Vista - hold on, they were in 2000 and XP
too.

So look at features you already have then get ready to upgrade so you
will use them. Because the evidence is if MS doesn't say it's a feature
noone will use it.

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
...
Microsoft Vienna may well be worth the wait, if it is indeed as radical
a
redesign as this indicates:
--------------------------------------------------

Windows Vienna - opening a new generation of operating systems

September 7, 2006

In the past 20 years, the Microsoft Windows operating system has
accumulated
old code libraries that brought it to the size it has today, 2.5 GB and
about 50 million lines of code (Windows Vista).

These old code libraries consume resources and are often the targets of
security exploits.

The best way to avoid such problems, is to start from scratch, which is
close to what Microsoft plans to do with Windows Vienna.

Windows Vienna will represent the start of a different generation of
operating systems, bringing in new concepts and support for new types of
hardware, along with a better security and a modular approach, which
will
allow future versions of Windows to be built more easily on Windows
Vienna's
engine.

It is also likely that the future success of Microsoft's products will
be
strongly decided by the success of the new generation operating system.

http://www.windowsvienna.com/
------------------------------------------------------

STARTING FROM SCRATCH...

Sounds Quite Sensible...

Waiting for Vienna, if one can, sounds increasingly attractive.

XP Pro SP2 is a sweet OS.

Vista may turn out to be as transient and inconsequential as
Millennium -- IF we can have Vienna in 2009.

--------------------------------------------------

New, But Associated Subject:

I agree with Jerry, "HEMI-Powered" [what's your moniker mean, Jerry?],
that
I will NEVER leave any of my machines alone at night -- or any other
time --
to do a DEFRAG or a DISK IMAGE or a WINDOWS or AV UPDATE -- all by
ITSELF.

So, this silly-buggers business of "scheduling a weekly backup/download
at
3AM" is absurd.

I also will never allow the cursed AUTOMATIC UPDATES on any of my
machines -- even for my Anti-Virus/Anti-Spyware programs and Windows
Update -- which would love to put IE7 on all my machines if I let it --
because MS insists IE7 is a "CRITICAL UPDATE".

Baloney et Twaddle!

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

You have a valid point. Why on earth would you want to schedule a defrag &
backup overnight when you can sit there & watch it in real-time.
I'm so glad I read your post, I'll cancel all my maintenace schedules so I
can watch it myself.
Won't need to renew my cable subscription now i'll be too busy watching
defrag to bother with 24.


"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
...
New, But Associated Subject:

I agree with Jerry, "HEMI-Powered" [what's your moniker mean, Jerry?],
that
I will NEVER leave any of my machines alone at night -- or any other
time --
to do a DEFRAG or a DISK IMAGE or a WINDOWS or AV UPDATE -- all by ITSELF.

So, this silly-buggers business of "scheduling a weekly backup/download at
3AM" is absurd.

I also will never allow the cursed AUTOMATIC UPDATES on any of my
machines -- even for my Anti-Virus/Anti-Spyware programs and Windows
Update -- which would love to put IE7 on all my machines if I let it --
because MS insists IE7 is a "CRITICAL UPDATE".

Baloney et Twaddle!

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Defrag and Backup on the machine I'm currently using take all of 30 minutes.

I initiate, control and monitor those processes.

I certainly don't sit there and watch the screen all the time.

DSH

How do you monitor it if you don't watch the screen :-)
Being paranoid enough to not schedule unattended maintenance is ridiculous.
BTW it helps if you quote text you are replying to.

"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
...
Defrag and Backup on the machine I'm currently using take all of 30
minutes.

I initiate, control and monitor those processes.

I certainly don't sit there and watch the screen all the time.

You have a valid point. Why on earth would you want to schedule a defrag
& backup overnight when you can sit there & watch it in real-time.
I'm so glad I read your post, I'll cancel all my maintenace schedules so
I can watch it myself.
Won't need to renew my cable subscription now i'll be too busy watching
defrag to bother with 24

Today, D. Spencer Hines made these interesting comments ...

Defrag and Backup on the machine I'm currently using take all
of 30 minutes.

I initiate, control and monitor those processes.

I certainly don't sit there and watch the screen all the time.

I only defrag C:\, about every 4-6 weeks. It takes hours, I don't
watch the grass grow, I do other things or watch TV. It ain't a
biggie, I never see a performance bump, so I think it is both
pointless and dangerous to schedule them often, especially
unattended, but that's me, YMMV.

--
HP, aka Jerry

I do see a marked performance bump.

DSH
---------------------------------------------------

"HEMI-Powered" wrote in message
...

Today, D. Spencer Hines made these interesting comments ...

Defrag and Backup on the machine I'm currently using take all
of 30 minutes.

I initiate, control and monitor those processes.

I certainly don't sit there and watch the screen all the time.

I only defrag C:\, about every 4-6 weeks. It takes hours, I don't
watch the grass grow, I do other things or watch TV. It ain't a
biggie, I never see a performance bump, so I think it is both
pointless and dangerous to schedule them often, especially
unattended, but that's me, YMMV.

--
HP, aka Jerry

Today, D. Spencer Hines made these interesting comments ...

I do see a marked performance bump.

Spence, since I have all the possible data files I can on D:\ and
E:\, defragging C:\ has very little effect, only very minorly on
app launch times, which I only do once a restart. And, the big
hitters like the pagefile, cannot be defragged. And, I don't do
nearly enough churning on my two data extended partitions to cause
much of a problem. But, exactly the opposite may be true for you or
others, it all depends on how your system is organized, what you
do, and how you measure improvements.

--
HP, aka Jerry

Why would he not want to schedule a defrag and backup overnight? Easy... Can
you say "paranoid malcontent?"

Lang

"Richard" wrote in message
...

You have a valid point. Why on earth would you want to schedule a defrag
& backup overnight when you can sit there & watch it in real-time.
I'm so glad I read your post, I'll cancel all my maintenace schedules so I
can watch it myself.
Won't need to renew my cable subscription now i'll be too busy watching
defrag to bother with 24.


"D. Spencer Hines" wrote in message
...
New, But Associated Subject:

I agree with Jerry, "HEMI-Powered" [what's your moniker mean, Jerry?],
that
I will NEVER leave any of my machines alone at night -- or any other
time --
to do a DEFRAG or a DISK IMAGE or a WINDOWS or AV UPDATE -- all by
ITSELF.

So, this silly-buggers business of "scheduling a weekly backup/download
at
3AM" is absurd.

I also will never allow the cursed AUTOMATIC UPDATES on any of my
machines -- even for my Anti-Virus/Anti-Spyware programs and Windows
Update -- which would love to put IE7 on all my machines if I let it --
because MS insists IE7 is a "CRITICAL UPDATE".

Baloney et Twaddle!

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas