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#1
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my first BSOD on win 8.1
not sure why it happened, I had about 12 tabs open in g. chrome and was
multitasking, I have 8gb ram and a intel i3 processor, I guess I overloaded things? everything seems to be working fine after M$ collected data and I waited for the percentage done counter reached 100% and rebooted. |
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#2
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my first BSOD on win 8.1
Vitalic wrote:
not sure why it happened, I had about 12 tabs open in g. chrome and was multitasking, I have 8gb ram and a intel i3 processor, I guess I overloaded things? everything seems to be working fine after M$ collected data and I waited for the percentage done counter reached 100% and rebooted. You would try to use Event Viewer, to see if the error got recorded. As any evidence collected after the fact, can help you determine whether it's a hardware or a software problem. Computers don't "overload" like revving the engine on your car too high. But, on the other hand, you have to test the machine for stability when it is new, to help eliminate any suspicions the hardware is not set up right. If you manually adjusted the RAM timing for example, set the timing too aggressively, the computer could crash at some later time. And that would be a hardware event. Intel processors are thoroughly tested at the factory, and with rare exceptions, it's not likely to be an actual CPU issue. Windows 8 makes it hard to get the BSOD information, but with enough work, you should be able to track down the details. ******* I have had one event on Windows 8, which I cannot recollect happening on another OS. I used a program which had a memory leak. It used up all system memory. The computer was still running. I managed to get Task Manager open, but the computer was so sluggish, that I could not use the cursor keys to select the program that needed to be killed, to stop it. I tried for at least an hour, to regain control of the PC. Nothing worked. So for once, I had to hit the power button, and just switch it off. But up to the point I switched it off, the computer was officially "still running". It just wasn't working in a way useful to anyone outside the computer itself. Paul |
#3
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my first BSOD on win 8.1
On 7/18/2015 10:23 AM, Paul wrote:
Vitalic wrote: not sure why it happened, I had about 12 tabs open in g. chrome and was multitasking, I have 8gb ram and a intel i3 processor, I guess I overloaded things? everything seems to be working fine after M$ collected data and I waited for the percentage done counter reached 100% and rebooted. You would try to use Event Viewer, to see if the error got recorded. As any evidence collected after the fact, can help you determine whether it's a hardware or a software problem. Computers don't "overload" like revving the engine on your car too high. But, on the other hand, you have to test the machine for stability when it is new, to help eliminate any suspicions the hardware is not set up right. If you manually adjusted the RAM timing for example, set the timing too aggressively, the computer could crash at some later time. And that would be a hardware event. Intel processors are thoroughly tested at the factory, and with rare exceptions, it's not likely to be an actual CPU issue. Windows 8 makes it hard to get the BSOD information, but with enough work, you should be able to track down the details. ******* I have had one event on Windows 8, which I cannot recollect happening on another OS. I used a program which had a memory leak. It used up all system memory. The computer was still running. I managed to get Task Manager open, but the computer was so sluggish, that I could not use the cursor keys to select the program that needed to be killed, to stop it. I tried for at least an hour, to regain control of the PC. Nothing worked. So for once, I had to hit the power button, and just switch it off. But up to the point I switched it off, the computer was officially "still running". It just wasn't working in a way useful to anyone outside the computer itself. Paul I found this on the tom's hardware site, I skipped parts 1 and 2 as I didn't think they were too relevant or necessary Step 1 -- When does the error occur Follow this step by step guide to learn how to fix the blue screen memory management error. This error suddenly appears when your Windows is booting in normal condition and then restarts automatically. Step 2 -- Open windows in safe mode For the purpose of this tutorial, we will open our windows in safe mode. In order to do so, press the F8 key when the system is starting. As a result, the Advanced Boot Options will appear. Select the Safe mode option and hit the enter key. here's where I started: "Step 3 -- Open Control Panel In order to resolve the problem, you will need to test your ram. In order to do so, go to the Start menu and open Control Panel. Step 4 -- Open Administrative Tools In the control panel window, open Administrative Tools. Step 5 -- Windows Memory Diagnostic Tool As a result, the Administrative Tools window will open up. From here, open the Windows Memory Diagnostic tool. Step 6 -- Restart now option In the Windows Memory Diagnostic window, select the first option which is recommended. As a result, your system will restart right away and will check for problems. Step 7 -- Diagnosis will begin After the computer has restarted, you will see that the Windows Memory Diagnostic Tool will be checking for memory problems. This diagnosis might take several minutes. Once the process has been completed, the system will restart and will open in normal condition. If the error occurs again, simply replace your memory modules. And that's it. In this manner, you can easily resolve the blue screen error of memory management. if no errors are found it has nothing to do with hardware and more to do with drivers" after the "diagnosis" was over it said "The Windows Memory Diagnostic tested the computer's memory and detected hardware errors. To identify and repair these problems, contact the computer manufacturer" :/ very helpful microsoft, maybe its a driver issue? this PC was bought new just a few months ago |
#4
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my first BSOD on win 8.1
Vitalic wrote:
after the "diagnosis" was over it said "The Windows Memory Diagnostic tested the computer's memory and detected hardware errors. To identify and repair these problems, contact the computer manufacturer" :/ very helpful microsoft, maybe its a driver issue? this PC was bought new just a few months ago OK. No problem. These are the tools I use to test a computer. 1) http://www.memtest.org/ Scroll half way down the page. Grab this one as an example. http://www.memtest.org/download/5.01...+-5.01.iso.zip 2) Windows has built-in support for ZIP. Click to open the ZIP and look inside. Extract the ISO file. And *remember* what folder you put it in :-) This is the extracted ISO9660 file, suitable for burning to disc. memtest86+-5.01.iso 1,839,104 bytes 3) Using a DVD burner program like Imgburn or Nero, convert the memtest86+-5.01.iso file into a bootable optical disc. Do not just drag and drop the file on the optical drive, as we don't just want a copy of the file. The burner program will read the contents of the file and make you a bootable piece of media. 4) Boot the computer with your newly made disc. 5) The program has a "Pass Counter". If no errors show up, wait until at least "Pass = 1". You want at least one full pass of testing. The program will run forever, if you let it. 6) The main purpose of this test is to find "stuck-at" faults. A memory with stuck-at faults should be replaced immediately. If the memory, or the purchased computer have a warranty, get the memory replaced for free. ******* Now, let's say that test passes and you ever see any errors. This test is more demanding. You can easily pass memtest, and fail this one quickly. http://www.mersenne.org/download/ Download a file to match your computer. Use the System control panel, and see if it says the "OS is 64 bit". p95v285.win64.zip p95v285.win32.zip Versions are available for both kinds of OSes. It's quite possible the 32 bit version will run on everything. When you start that program, it will ask if you "want to join GIMPs". Say "No, just testing". There is a "torture test" option in there. You can customize the test conditions, like define the amount of memory to be tested. The program will start a thread of execution for each CPU core. The color of the screen for each test run will be Green. If the color changes to Red on any test thread, the test for that thread failed. The test can fail for two reasons. Bad CPU. Or, bad RAM. Unless you have overclocked your CPU to sky-high values, chances are the memory is at fault. On a highly overclocked system (my AthlonXP), the program will error out in as little as 2 seconds. To "trust" a computer, a computer here must complete 4 hours of testing, with all test threads having a Green status. That tells me the computer is relatively stable, as far as the computing part goes. You can use Task Manager to see how much memory it is using. You can stop the test, reenter the test and define a new amount of memory to test, to make better usage of system memory. It takes a while to learn how to use this program, but it is worth it in the long run. My new computer got pretty damn hot when I ran that a few months ago. I had to add extra cooling, as a result of seeing the test results. I use a copy of Speedfan from almico.com, to monitor CPU temperature. The part that was overheating, was my VCore regulator, and I burned my finger on the heatsink. That's how I figured out it was too hot :-) Speedfan has no monitor for that one. You feel around in a new computer, for "hot stuff that needs help". The new computer is the first computer I have owned, where the VCore ran that hot. Normally they're about body temperature. They're not supposed to run hot, because they can go into thermal runaway. The hot regulator had no effect on stability, but if left that way for years and years, could eventually result in a motherboard failure. Now, there is a fan blowing on it. Paul |
#5
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my first BSOD on win 8.1
On 7/18/2015 4:14 PM, Paul wrote:
Vitalic wrote: after the "diagnosis" was over it said "The Windows Memory Diagnostic tested the computer's memory and detected hardware errors. To identify and repair these problems, contact the computer manufacturer" :/ very helpful microsoft, maybe its a driver issue? this PC was bought new just a few months ago OK. No problem. These are the tools I use to test a computer. 1) http://www.memtest.org/ Scroll half way down the page. Grab this one as an example. http://www.memtest.org/download/5.01...+-5.01.iso.zip 2) Windows has built-in support for ZIP. Click to open the ZIP and look inside. Extract the ISO file. And *remember* what folder you put it in :-) This is the extracted ISO9660 file, suitable for burning to disc. memtest86+-5.01.iso 1,839,104 bytes 3) Using a DVD burner program like Imgburn or Nero, convert the memtest86+-5.01.iso file into a bootable optical disc. Do not just drag and drop the file on the optical drive, as we don't just want a copy of the file. The burner program will read the contents of the file and make you a bootable piece of media. 4) Boot the computer with your newly made disc. 5) The program has a "Pass Counter". If no errors show up, wait until at least "Pass = 1". You want at least one full pass of testing. The program will run forever, if you let it. 6) The main purpose of this test is to find "stuck-at" faults. A memory with stuck-at faults should be replaced immediately. If the memory, or the purchased computer have a warranty, get the memory replaced for free. ******* Now, let's say that test passes and you ever see any errors. This test is more demanding. You can easily pass memtest, and fail this one quickly. http://www.mersenne.org/download/ Download a file to match your computer. Use the System control panel, and see if it says the "OS is 64 bit". p95v285.win64.zip p95v285.win32.zip Versions are available for both kinds of OSes. It's quite possible the 32 bit version will run on everything. When you start that program, it will ask if you "want to join GIMPs". Say "No, just testing". There is a "torture test" option in there. You can customize the test conditions, like define the amount of memory to be tested. The program will start a thread of execution for each CPU core. The color of the screen for each test run will be Green. If the color changes to Red on any test thread, the test for that thread failed. The test can fail for two reasons. Bad CPU. Or, bad RAM. Unless you have overclocked your CPU to sky-high values, chances are the memory is at fault. On a highly overclocked system (my AthlonXP), the program will error out in as little as 2 seconds. To "trust" a computer, a computer here must complete 4 hours of testing, with all test threads having a Green status. That tells me the computer is relatively stable, as far as the computing part goes. You can use Task Manager to see how much memory it is using. You can stop the test, reenter the test and define a new amount of memory to test, to make better usage of system memory. It takes a while to learn how to use this program, but it is worth it in the long run. My new computer got pretty damn hot when I ran that a few months ago. I had to add extra cooling, as a result of seeing the test results. I use a copy of Speedfan from almico.com, to monitor CPU temperature. The part that was overheating, was my VCore regulator, and I burned my finger on the heatsink. That's how I figured out it was too hot :-) Speedfan has no monitor for that one. You feel around in a new computer, for "hot stuff that needs help". The new computer is the first computer I have owned, where the VCore ran that hot. Normally they're about body temperature. They're not supposed to run hot, because they can go into thermal runaway. The hot regulator had no effect on stability, but if left that way for years and years, could eventually result in a motherboard failure. Now, there is a fan blowing on it. Paul before I scour the apt for a DVD/R lying around somewhere, is there a way to do this test on a bootable USB flashdrive? |
#6
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my first BSOD on win 8.1
Vitalic wrote:
before I scour the apt for a DVD/R lying around somewhere, is there a way to do this test on a bootable USB flashdrive? Yes. Check the download page. It has all the modern media types. Scroll half way down that page and look. While you can put Prime95 on a flash drive, you need a running OS for that one. Prime95 assumes the system is stable enough to boot properly, and you're looking to see whether the thing is "extremely stable" or not. ******* Personally, I use a floppy diskette for memtest, because I'm a joker, and because I also own a USB floppy drive (portable). I can put the memtest floppy on any machine. Paul |
#7
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my first BSOD on win 8.1
On 18/07/2015 08:31, Vitalic wrote:
not sure why it happened, I had about 12 tabs open in g. chrome and was multitasking, I have 8gb ram and a intel i3 processor, I guess I overloaded things? everything seems to be working fine after M$ collected data and I waited for the percentage done counter reached 100% and rebooted. No you were using the wrong unsupported browser. Google Chrome is not a supported browser for Windows system. Have you thought of using Internet Explorer or Microsoft Edge when it comes out on 29th July on Windows X? You will be surprised how wonderful it is. Instant recognition of your efforts to use supported applications. |
#8
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my first BSOD on win 8.1
Good Guy wrote:
On 18/07/2015 08:31, Vitalic wrote: not sure why it happened, I had about 12 tabs open in g. chrome and was multitasking, I have 8gb ram and a intel i3 processor, I guess I overloaded things? everything seems to be working fine after M$ collected data and I waited for the percentage done counter reached 100% and rebooted. No you were using the wrong unsupported browser. Google Chrome is not a supported browser for Windows system. Have you thought of using Internet Explorer or Microsoft Edge when it comes out on 29th July on Windows X? You will be surprised how wonderful it is. Instant recognition of your efforts to use supported applications. All edge is is a re badged Chrome browser that is not even in chromes league yet. |
#9
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my first BSOD on win 8.1
On 7/18/2015 5:34 PM, Good Guy wrote:
On 18/07/2015 08:31, Vitalic wrote: not sure why it happened, I had about 12 tabs open in g. chrome and was multitasking, I have 8gb ram and a intel i3 processor, I guess I overloaded things? everything seems to be working fine after M$ collected data and I waited for the percentage done counter reached 100% and rebooted. No you were using the wrong unsupported browser. Google Chrome is not a supported browser for Windows system. Have you thought of using Internet Explorer or Microsoft Edge when it comes out on 29th July on Windows X? You will be surprised how wonderful it is. Instant recognition of your efforts to use supported applications. unsupported? what drugs are you on? Only thing I ever used IE for was to download another browser when I plugged in the PC for the first time "Instant recognition of your efforts to use supported applications." I hope I get a cash award! or maybe a vacation to Aruba! |
#10
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my first BSOD on win 8.1
On 07/18/2015 11:34 AM, Vitalic wrote:
snip ter key. here's where I started: after the "diagnosis" was over it said "The Windows Memory Diagnostic tested the computer's memory and detected hardware errors. To identify and repair these problems, contact the computer manufacturer" :/ very helpful microsoft, maybe its a driver issue? this PC was bought new just a few months ago The message was very clear it said ***hardware errors*** how can you possibly construe that as a driver issue? Looks like a RAM problem run memtest on one stick of ram at a time and see which one is defective. Since it's a fairly new machine I assume it's a defect... one old machines it can occasionally be an issue of cleaning the contacts. |
#11
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my first BSOD on win 8.1
Vitalic posted this:
On 7/18/2015 5:34 PM, Good Guy wrote: On 18/07/2015 08:31, Vitalic wrote: not sure why it happened, I had about 12 tabs open in g. chrome and was multitasking, I have 8gb ram and a intel i3 processor, I guess I overloaded things? everything seems to be working fine after M$ collected data and I waited for the percentage done counter reached 100% and rebooted. No you were using the wrong unsupported browser. Google Chrome is not a supported browser for Windows system. Have you thought of using Internet Explorer or Microsoft Edge when it comes out on 29th July on Windows X? You will be surprised how wonderful it is. Instant recognition of your efforts to use supported applications. unsupported? what drugs are you on? Only thing I ever used IE for was to download another browser when I plugged in the PC for the first time "Instant recognition of your efforts to use supported applications." I hope I get a cash award! or maybe a vacation to Aruba! Chrome haz been known to crash Windows because Google hates Microsoft... just like in the old daze when Apple (Quicktime) and Sun (Java) used to give Windows users fits-and-spurts (and BSODs) when installing and upgrading. Those M$-haterz felt that spnaking the Windows users was the same as spnaking the M$ company. Chrome is known spyware, so maybe the malware agents were just having a big party on your system when the whole contraption crashed... Ususally, when a BSOD occurs, it's a product of conflict between hardware and software - if not an outright hardware issue. Rx: Buy a new computer (they're very cheap now). Upgrade to Windows 10 as soon as possible. And, last but not least; indeed, most importantly of all other things contemplated, STAY WITH MICROSOFT AND MICROSOFT AUTHORIZED HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE - thusly you can become a fully assimilated vegetarian Scientologist with absolutely NO suppressive engrams infecting your computer[s]. Throw away your medications and celebrate your newfound freedom! HTH. -- I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; Repent, the end is near... Or just smoke 'em if you got 'em. http://tinyurl.com/ocnqvgq |
#12
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my first BSOD on win 8.1
On 7/19/2015 10:49 AM, Bucky Breeder wrote:
Vitalic posted this: On 7/18/2015 5:34 PM, Good Guy wrote: On 18/07/2015 08:31, Vitalic wrote: not sure why it happened, I had about 12 tabs open in g. chrome and was multitasking, I have 8gb ram and a intel i3 processor, I guess I overloaded things? everything seems to be working fine after M$ collected data and I waited for the percentage done counter reached 100% and rebooted. No you were using the wrong unsupported browser. Google Chrome is not a supported browser for Windows system. Have you thought of using Internet Explorer or Microsoft Edge when it comes out on 29th July on Windows X? You will be surprised how wonderful it is. Instant recognition of your efforts to use supported applications. unsupported? what drugs are you on? Only thing I ever used IE for was to download another browser when I plugged in the PC for the first time "Instant recognition of your efforts to use supported applications." I hope I get a cash award! or maybe a vacation to Aruba! Chrome haz been known to crash Windows because Google hates Microsoft... just like in the old daze when Apple (Quicktime) and Sun (Java) used to give Windows users fits-and-spurts (and BSODs) when installing and upgrading. Those M$-haterz felt that spnaking the Windows users was the same as spnaking the M$ company. Chrome is known spyware, so maybe the malware agents were just having a big party on your system when the whole contraption crashed... Ususally, when a BSOD occurs, it's a product of conflict between hardware and software - if not an outright hardware issue. Rx: Buy a new computer (they're very cheap now). Upgrade to Windows 10 as soon as possible. And, last but not least; indeed, most importantly of all other things contemplated, STAY WITH MICROSOFT AND MICROSOFT AUTHORIZED HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE - thusly you can become a fully assimilated vegetarian Scientologist with absolutely NO suppressive engrams infecting your computer[s]. Throw away your medications and celebrate your newfound freedom! HTH. Heh, I'll pass on the Scientology, I'm more of a robert anton wilson reader or theosophy |
#13
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my first BSOD on win 8.1
In , Bucky Breeder wrote:
Posted this: Vitalic this: Vitalic . On 7/18/2015 5:34 PM, Good Guy wrote: On 18/07/2015 08:31, Vitalic wrote: not sure why it happened, I had about 12 tabs open in g. chrome and was multitasking, I have 8gb ram and a intel i3 processor, I guess I overloaded things? everything seems to be working fine after M$ collected data and I waited for the percentage done counter reached 100% and rebooted. No you were using the wrong unsupported browser. Google Chrome is not a supported browser for Windows system. Have you thought of using Internet Explorer or Microsoft Edge when it comes out on 29th July on Windows X? You will be surprised how wonderful it is. Instant recognition of your efforts to use supported applications. unsupported? what drugs are you on? Only thing I ever used IE for was to download another browser when I plugged in the PC for the first time "Instant recognition of your efforts to use supported applications." I hope I get a cash award! or maybe a vacation to Aruba! Chrome haz been known the M$ company. Chrome as spnaking the same haz been in thates Microsoft. Chrome as the maybe the Windows use Google (Quicktime) and-spurts (and-spurts was that spnaking. Chrome agents (and-spurts was spnaking. Those Google haz becaused to crashed. Chrome in that spnaking and BSODs) when known the same haz becausers fits-and Sun (Java) used to crash Windows. Those M$-hates Microsoft. Chrome hates Microsoft. Chrome in the M$ company. Chrome haterz felt the when Apple company. Chrome as the M$ company. Chrome as thates Microsoft. Just haterz felt the Windows use Google company. Chrome agents (and-spurts were just like is known the M$-hates Microsoft. Those M$-haterz felt the same haz been Apple (Quicktime) and BSODs) when in the same in thates Microsoft. In the maybe the old daze whole haz becausers fits-and upgrading. Ususally, when hardware and software - if not an outright hardware and software - if not an outright hardware - if not and software and software issue. Ususally, when a BSOD occurs, it's a product of conflict of conflict of. An outright hardware issue. Upgrams indeed, last importantly you can Scientologist with absolutely as soon as soon assible. Upgrade to Windeed, STAY WITH MICROSOFT AUTHORIZED HARDWARE AND MICROSOFTWARE - thing you can becomputer things come a fully assimilated, most but now). Upgrade to Windows 10 as soon assive engrade to Windeedom! Rx: Buy a new computer. Upgrams infectings contemplated, most but now). And, most but now). Upgrade to Windeed, most but now). And, most but now). Engrams indeed, most but now). Upgrams indows 10 as possible. And, STAY WITH MICROSOFTWARE - things computely a new contemplated, most with absolutely your new contemplated, last importantly of all othey're very cheap now). Upgrade to Windows 10 as possimilated, most importantly a fully of all other thusly of all othey're very cheap not least but now). Upgrade to Windows 10 as soon as soon as soon assive engrade to Windows 10 as possible. Typical nonsense and gibberish from you, ****tard breeder. -- alt.usenet.kooks "We are arrant knaves all, believe none of us." Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 1 [129] Hammer of Thor: February 2007. Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker: September 2005, April 2006, January 2007. Official Member: Cabal Obsidian Order COOSN-124-07-06660 Usenet Ruiner Lits Top Assholes on the Net Lits Most hated usenetizens of all time Lits "Now I know what it is. Now I know what it means when an alt.usenet.kook x-post shows up." AOK in |
#14
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my first BSOD on win 8.1
Kadaitcha "Poopie-Pants" Man spewed
this as his head wildly spun around and he masturbated on a crucifix: In , Bucky Breeder wrote: Posted this: Vitalic this: Vitalic . On 7/18/2015 5:34 PM, Good Guy wrote: On 18/07/2015 08:31, Vitalic wrote: [Just the relevant content has been snipped...] Typical nonsense and gibberish from you, ****tard breeder. Typical sit back in the shadows, post-edit and then spew out lamerz from you, "Poopie-Pants". It's like yer mama tolled you, "One day you're gonna be stuck with that ugly ass-face forever." Take your medications like your shrink prescribed them. -- I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; Repent, the end is near... Or just smoke 'em if you got 'em. http://tinyurl.com/ocnqvgq |
#15
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my first BSOD on win 8.1
In , Bucky Breeder wrote:
"Pa "Popopie-Pants". "Pooooooopits". Kadaie-Pa ". ". In , Bucky Breeder wrote: Posted this: Vitalic this: Vitalic . On 7/18/2015 5:34 PM, Good Guy wrote: On 18/07/2015 08:31, Vitalic wrote: Has been snipped.] [Just the relevant. [Just the relevant has been snipped.] [Just the relevant has been snipped.] [Just the relevant has been snipped.] [Just the relevant content. Typical nonsense and gibberish from you, ****tard breeder. Spew out lamerz from you, "Poopie-Pants". Spew out lamerz from you, "Poopie-Pants". Spew out lamerz from you, "Poopie-Pants". Spew out lamerz from you, "Poopie-Pants". Spew out lamerz from you, "Poopie-Pants". Spew out lamerz from you, "Poopie-Pants". Typical sit back in then spew out lamerz from you, "Poopie-Pants". Spew out lamerz from you. Typical sit back in the shadows. From you, "Poopie-Pants". Day you're gonna be stuck with that ugly ass-face forever." It's like yer mama tolled you, "One day you, "One day you, "One day you, "One day you're gonna be stuck with that ugly ass-face forever." It's like yer mama tolled you, "One day you're gonna be stuck with that ugly ass-face forever." It's like yer mama tolled you, "One day you're gonna. Ass-face forever." It's like yer mama tolled you, "One day. Take your medications. Take your medications like your medications like your medications like your medications like your shrink prescribed them. Your medications like your shrink prescribed them. Shrink prescribed them. Take your shrink prescribed them. You seem to be stuck ina loop, ****y. -- alt.usenet.kooks "We are arrant knaves all, believe none of us." Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 1 [129] Hammer of Thor: February 2007. Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker: September 2005, April 2006, January 2007. Official Member: Cabal Obsidian Order COOSN-124-07-06660 Usenet Ruiner Lits Top Assholes on the Net Lits Most hated usenetizens of all time Lits "Now I know what it is. Now I know what it means when an alt.usenet.kook x-post shows up." AOK in |
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