Networking problem

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 20:25:16 +0000, Real Troll
wrote:

On 28/10/2018 02:53, Eric Stevens wrote:

Its always possible that there is something basic that I have missed
that will make all the difference. Please feel free to make
suggestions to which I will respond.

Go to the machine where you have a problem and then right-click on the
folder that needs to be shared. Then choose Properties Sharing.
There is an option to make it Read/Write. First make sure you have
selected "Everyone" from the drop down list. Then make Read/Write
permission.

Go and do this for both machines - Dell as well as Corsair.

I did this before I posted my query.

Make sure you are sharing a folder only. You don't want to share the
entire machine. For example, I have two folders shared - Downloads &
htdocs. htdocs is a web server I run locally on apache for testing
purposes.



More to the point, I have several times read that problems of this
kind are most common amongst W10 Home vs W10 Pro. Could it be that
there is something going on in the way that the two different W10
machines handle Group Policies?

Probably but I don't have any W10 Home on my machines; They are all
professional or Enterprise. The enterprise machines are running on
trial versions of the OS but they seem to be going on and on. There is
no expiration for reasons I don't know. It could be that previous
version of W10 professional was activated so enterprise got it confused
although it was a clean installation.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article ,
lid says...

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 14:32:48 -0300, pjp
wrote:

I've run across this numerous times because I forget step 2 until error
message appears when setting up a new install etc. so here goes.

1 - I setup every share that includes an "Everyone" name which I add if
need be. I setup the share as required, e.g. Read or Read/Write.

2 - I then go into Networking and Sharing Center and under Advanced I
turn Off "Require Password" setting.

That's all I've ever needed to do and I run a lot of shares across 13
pcs in this house. They all connect without issue and do Read versus
Read/Write as expected.

I do almost exactly the same, except exactly the opposite. ;-)

1. I create an account on each PC that uses my userass credentials. I
never log into that account on those other PCs; it's only there to
enable the third step below.

2. I share one or more folders on the respective PCs.

3. Then, from my local PC, I access a remote PC by its IP address and
share name*. My local PC sends the credentials of the currently logged
in user, (me), they match an account on the remote PC, and dinner is
served. I don't set any shared folders for 'Everyone' access. I'm
opposed to that on general principles.

*This sidesteps anything related to PC names, NetBIOS, and Workgroup
names. All of that stuff becomes completely irrelevant.

I've been doing it that way since at least the early XP days without any
issues. It's possible that I started in the 98 days, but it's too far
back to be sure.

Summary: Step 1 above is the important one. I see a lot of people skip
over it and then they end up using the Everyone permission set. Ugh.

I do it "my way" so anyone on my internal network can access the shares.
They're almost all mutimedia of some sort and I want to easily and
without any kind of prompt be able to access the files on any pc in the
house. They're all marked as "Read-Only" except one "Temp" folder on
every pc marked as "Read-Write" to faciliate copying files around
systems.

I do this so a guest in their bedroom for the evening can simply click
on a desktop shortcut and be presented with a list of things they can
watch or listen to, e.g. 14,000+ cds', 1000+ movies, another 500+
documentaries, more than a few complete tv series etc. etc. Same on any
pc in the house.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 12:15:22 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 00:30:28 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Eric Stevens wrote:
I have two computers on my home network, Corsair which is fairly new
running Windows 10 Home (1809 17763.55) and Dell which is running
Windows 10 Pro (1803 17134.285).

For a long time I have had problems networking the two computers. Dell
could access Corsair and move files backwards and forwards but while
Corsair could see Dell's shared folders it could not move anything
either in or out of them. Not only that but password and credentials
for file sharing was driving me nuts. Today I sat down and decided to
tidy up the whole mess.

First thing I did was turn off password file sharing. Then I went
through both machines giving them identical settings for anything to
do with networking and file sharing. As far as I can see the
networking setup of both machines is identical.

I now have the reverse of the previous situation. Corsair seems to be
able to access and do anything inside the shared folders on Dell, but
while Dell can see the shared folders on Corsair any attempt to access
them is met by "You do not have permission etc ...".

I need help.

Its always possible that there is something basic that I have missed
that will make all the difference. Please feel free to make
suggestions to which I will respond.

More to the point, I have several times read that problems of this
kind are most common amongst W10 Home vs W10 Pro. Could it be that
there is something going on in the way that the two different W10
machines handle Group Policies?

The difference between Home and Pro, is Pro supports domains.

In a domain, there is a central server. Authentication is against
this central server, instead of against the local machine. It
means there is the possibility of a consistent Eric Stevens,
along with a SID to match. In a domain, all the computers
have workgroup=StevensHousehold, and when set that way, they
know which machines belong to the group and that those
machines will be authenticated against the domain server.

Run this in a command prompt on two machines you plan
to network (non-domain situation).

whoami /user

User Name SID
==================== =============================================
corsair\eric stevens S-1-5-21-111111111-2222222222-3333333333-1001

whoami /user

User Name SID
==================== =============================================
dell\eric stevens S-1-5-21-444444444-5555555555-6666666666-1000


This sounds like a possible cause to the problem. I have tried this
command on both machines and while I get a response from each it comes
and goes so quickly that it its just a barely noticable flicker with
no chance of reading it at all.

Aah. Finger fault. I feel an idiot. When using a command prompt
correctly it comes up normally.


While the account name on "loose" non-domain machines may have
been set by the user to be identical, the machine uses a SID
for the job. The SID is generated when the OS is installed, and
the SID is random. Thus, the Corsair machine has a different
bunch of "large digit groups" than the Dell machine.

When you bring the Dell hard drive over to the Corsair machine, and access
the Eric Stevens Downloads folder, you'll notice a green bar fly across
the Explorer status bar. That's TakeOwn happening.

Unfortunately it doesn't get to that stage: it just tells me to go
away.

I always wondered what that was.

Now, the Downloads
folder will have two owners, an entry for 1000 and an entry for 1001.
The foreign SID won't have a symbolic name, while the "local" Eric
Stevens will be the local owner.

Note that, user accounts start at 1000, the "real administrator" is 500.
You are not the real administrator. You belong to the administrator
group, which is a different property. The difference between the
two machines could be, that the first machine used an MSA, and it
required the accounting logic to temporarily use two account numbers,
and the number ended up being 1001.

I think you can see there is a conundrum here. It appears by all
standards, the equipment is in no condition to transfer files at all.
The identification methods are not set up to make it easy. A domain
might have been simpler.

*******

This is why the answerers in this thread, are trying to explain the
process of changing the properties of the shared folder
(on the serving end) so that "Everyone" has "Full Control".

I've already done that.

This allows a person, once they're nominally authenticated
(they've entered a username and password that exists on
the serving machine), the "Everyone" property on the folder
makes the folder "open season". Now, the files will transfer.

https://www.tenforums.com/network-sh...computers.html

Basic network settings and radio buttons, are shown here.
You've already done this part.

Yep.


https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/9040...s-7-and-vista/

It's theoretically possible to gimp a Win10 machine, by not
turning on the SMBV1 features in "Windows Features" of "Programs
and Features". This would be the case, if you also happened to
disable the registry settings for SMBV2 and SMBV3. By default,
we might expect to see SMBV2 and SMBV3 enabled after a new install.

On SMBV1, name serving is via NetBIOS. That's how I can
have Dell and Corsair machine, and the machines convert
the names to 192.168.1.2 and 192.168.1.3. But I can also use
numeric identifiers, if NetBIOS is not working. You use the
right hand syntax, if NetBIOS is borked. You can use "ipconfig"
on the machine in question, to get its current IP address.
(This works well when all the computers are in the same room.)

\\corsair\corsairshare \\192.168.1.3\corsairshare
\\dell\dellshare \\192.168.1.2\dellshare

Haven't been anywhere near this as yet. I'm not sure that I want to.

On Linux, it might be smb://corsair/corsairshare, so there
is a similarity there. Linux would accept
smb://192.168.1.3/corsairshare as well.

--- snip ---

I'm not ignoring the stuff I have snipped - quite the reverse. My
office has two computers and two printers all on the same ethernet
network. I have a feed from the router where the fibre cable comes in.
Originally this link was wifi but now it too is via ethernet.

As part of the recent change I replaced my old wifi Netgear switch in
the office with a Netgear GS105 switch. Shortly before this Dell was
auto-updated to 1803.and a bit later I updated Corsair with the buggy
1809 update. I was not aware of any problems at the time I made these
changes but I now find my old office network has vanished and the
GS105 is undiscoverable and I can't set up a new network based on
that. In the meantime the two computers are still communicating with
each other although Corsair rejects Dell's approaches. I don't think
the communication problem is related to the physical network so I am
carefully skirting around the stuff I have snipped.

In the meantime, why is the response to whoami so brief and what can I
do about it?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 19:18:23 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

As part of the recent change I replaced my old wifi Netgear switch in
the office with a Netgear GS105 switch. Shortly before this Dell was
auto-updated to 1803.and a bit later I updated Corsair with the buggy
1809 update. I was not aware of any problems at the time I made these
changes but I now find my old office network has vanished and the
GS105 is undiscoverable and I can't set up a new network based on
that.

the gs105 is unmanaged. there's nothing to discover.

What do you think I just said?

the problem is elsewhere.

But where. That is the question.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 20:35:40 -0400, Paul
wrote:

In the meantime, why is the response to whoami so brief and what can I
do about it?

Right click "Start", select Powershell, when the powershell
window appears, type "cmd". This converts the session into
Command Prompt syntax, and is the fastest way I can get you
ready.

Now, type in the command

whoami /user

And then it should stay put.

I've already sorted that out. Finger fumbling.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

Eric Stevens wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 12:15:22 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 00:30:28 -0400, Paul
wrote:

When you bring the Dell hard drive over to the Corsair machine, and access
the Eric Stevens Downloads folder, you'll notice a green bar fly across
the Explorer status bar. That's TakeOwn happening.

Unfortunately it doesn't get to that stage: it just tells me to go
away.

AFAIK, if you're a member of the administrator group, it
should work.

Paul

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 20:05:13 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

On 10/28/2018 7:16 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
When I have had this situation I have found that I did not have the
permission set correctly, nor the owner. As I remember there are two
places where the sharing parameters must be set. Both are in the folder
properties.

The obvious is in the Sharing tab.

The one that messed me up was in the Security tab Advanced. At the top
of the popup page the owner shown in that position must be the one that
has the rights to share the folder. (It took me some time to work it
out so I am not going to try to explain what I did. You can search and
find the infromation online.)
I think I have done all that (?).
Sometime the ownership while appearing correct, is wrong.

I beleive you said one of your computers, did access the net, check the
owner of each shared folder, and then set the other computer to the same
owner. The owner on all of my computers for all of my shared folders is
Administrator (computername\administrator)

My account details are identical on both computers.

On the DEll all the files I access from Corsair are owned by system
and give me no trouble. On Corsair the files I try to access from Dell
are variously owned by SYSTEM or Eric Stevens. I can't access any of
them.

Make sure the permissions for the above owner is set to full contro,
applies to all folders.

All relevant files/folders are set for full control for everyone.

My permissions are
Allow Everyone Full Control None This folder, subfolders and files
Allow System Full Control None This folder, subfolders and files
Allow Administrator (computername\administrator)
Full Control None This folder, subfolders and files
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:32:24 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 14:32:48 -0300, pjp
wrote:

I've run across this numerous times because I forget step 2 until error
message appears when setting up a new install etc. so here goes.

1 - I setup every share that includes an "Everyone" name which I add if
need be. I setup the share as required, e.g. Read or Read/Write.

2 - I then go into Networking and Sharing Center and under Advanced I
turn Off "Require Password" setting.

That's all I've ever needed to do and I run a lot of shares across 13
pcs in this house. They all connect without issue and do Read versus
Read/Write as expected.

I do almost exactly the same, except exactly the opposite. ;-)

1. I create an account on each PC that uses my userass credentials. I
never log into that account on those other PCs; it's only there to
enable the third step below.

2. I share one or more folders on the respective PCs.

3. Then, from my local PC, I access a remote PC by its IP address and
share name*. My local PC sends the credentials of the currently logged
in user, (me), they match an account on the remote PC, and dinner is
served. I don't set any shared folders for 'Everyone' access.

I have done that but the problem persists.

I'm opposed to that on general principles.

So am I but I've tried knocking down all possible barriers until
things start working. Then I can start raising them again, one at a
time, until I encounter one which makes networking fail again.

*This sidesteps anything related to PC names, NetBIOS, and Workgroup
names. All of that stuff becomes completely irrelevant.

I've been doing it that way since at least the early XP days without any
issues. It's possible that I started in the 98 days, but it's too far
back to be sure.

Summary: Step 1 above is the important one. I see a lot of people skip
over it and then they end up using the Everyone permission set. Ugh.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 29-Oct-2018 3:15 pm, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 20:05:13 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

On 10/28/2018 7:16 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
When I have had this situation I have found that I did not have the
permission set correctly, nor the owner. As I remember there are two
places where the sharing parameters must be set. Both are in the folder
properties.

The obvious is in the Sharing tab.

The one that messed me up was in the Security tab Advanced. At the top
of the popup page the owner shown in that position must be the one that
has the rights to share the folder. (It took me some time to work it
out so I am not going to try to explain what I did. You can search and
find the infromation online.)
I think I have done all that (?).
Sometime the ownership while appearing correct, is wrong.

I beleive you said one of your computers, did access the net, check the
owner of each shared folder, and then set the other computer to the same
owner. The owner on all of my computers for all of my shared folders is
Administrator (computername\administrator)
My account details are identical on both computers.

On the DEll all the files I access from Corsair are owned by system
and give me no trouble. On Corsair the files I try to access from Dell
are variously owned by SYSTEM or Eric Stevens. I can't access any of
them.
Make sure the permissions for the above owner is set to full contro,
applies to all folders.
All relevant files/folders are set for full control for everyone.
My permissions are
Allow Everyone Full Control None This folder, subfolders and files
Allow System Full Control None This folder, subfolders and files
Allow Administrator (computername\administrator)
Full Control None This folder, subfolders and files



Can't say I've been following this thread very diligently. But over the
years I've regularly encountered just these sort of issues and Googling
has revealed so many people with similar problems and so many different
solutions (that work for some, not for others) that I just can't
understand why Microsoft has chosen to make simple networking so
challenging.

For what it's worth, the last two times I've added another computer to
my home network and found these sort of non-communication issues, I've
gone into Credential Manager on all the computers and made absolutely
sure the credentials are present and accurate, and also made sure the
relevant folders are shared in both the properties and security tabs and
then everything has been ok.

Sorry if you've already done this, but it's worked for me recently and
it's the first thing I'll try next time I have a problem.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

As part of the recent change I replaced my old wifi Netgear switch in
the office with a Netgear GS105 switch. Shortly before this Dell was
auto-updated to 1803.and a bit later I updated Corsair with the buggy
1809 update. I was not aware of any problems at the time I made these
changes but I now find my old office network has vanished and the
GS105 is undiscoverable and I can't set up a new network based on
that.

the gs105 is unmanaged. there's nothing to discover.

What do you think I just said?

you said it was undiscoverable and can't set up a new network.

why would you expect that it would be, or that if it was a managed
switch, it would change anything?

it's like saying the lights came on when you plugged it in. yes, but so
what?

the problem is elsewhere.

But where. That is the question.

windows.

Eric Stevens wrote:

I have tried this
command on both machines and while I get a response from each it comes
and goes so quickly that it its just a barely noticable flicker with
no chance of reading it at all.

Don't run the "whoami" command from start/run, that will as you notice
open a window, run it and then close the window. Instead start a CMD
window from start/run, then when that opens, run the whoami command ...

Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 18:32:24 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 14:32:48 -0300, pjp
wrote:

I've run across this numerous times because I forget step 2 until error
message appears when setting up a new install etc. so here goes.

1 - I setup every share that includes an "Everyone" name which I add if
need be. I setup the share as required, e.g. Read or Read/Write.

2 - I then go into Networking and Sharing Center and under Advanced I
turn Off "Require Password" setting.

That's all I've ever needed to do and I run a lot of shares across 13
pcs in this house. They all connect without issue and do Read versus
Read/Write as expected.
I do almost exactly the same, except exactly the opposite. ;-)

1. I create an account on each PC that uses my userass credentials. I
never log into that account on those other PCs; it's only there to
enable the third step below.

2. I share one or more folders on the respective PCs.

3. Then, from my local PC, I access a remote PC by its IP address and
share name*. My local PC sends the credentials of the currently logged
in user, (me), they match an account on the remote PC, and dinner is
served. I don't set any shared folders for 'Everyone' access.

I have done that but the problem persists.

There's no smoking gun here, but I'm curious whether
you see anything unusual in the account you're logging
to while file sharing.

So if Corsair calls on the file share on Dell, and
Dell has an account "mike", what does

net user mike

show while you have the Command Prompt open on Dell ?

https://security.stackexchange.com/q...-group-meaning

I tried "accessenum.exe" from Sysinternals, and it doesn't appear
that sharing access is captured in the local security properties
of the file system. The comments in the StackExchange make
a reference to "calculating a SACL or DACL", at which point,
I'm lost. Other than the Advanced file sharing dialog and
the Everything option, how do I "observe" the remote permissions ?

I started looking in that direction, hoping there was a
way to debug "why a user doesn't have file sharing permission".

It doesn't seem at the moment, I can dump the details.

The "accessenum" program has a semi-intelligent approach
to the problem, even if the results don't make sense :-/
Ouch. The top level of my RAMDisk had different read than
write permissions, and it almost looked like if I tried
the equivalent of Fast User Switching, I wouldn't be able
to write it. But if I was Fast User Switching, that
account would be an Authenticated User, and then I
would have access.

It's a good thing the permissions model is easy to understand.
Every time you turn over a rock, there's another rock underneath.

Another mystery is the "setintegritylevel" thing. Which can
block an operation, but perhaps not what you're trying to do.
But who can be sure ? (My USENET reader no longer has
the correct MID because of the nitwit at Neptunes Lair who
was reposting messages/flooding, and all I've got left is
one of his reposted messages.) The original poster in this
thread, seemed to have the wrong integrity level on a portion
of the C: drive.

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi...t.uuhec.net%3E

Paul

On 10/28/2018 10:15 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
My account details are identical on both computers.

On the DEll all the files I access from Corsair are owned by system
and give me no trouble. On Corsair the files I try to access from Dell
are variously owned by SYSTEM or Eric Stevens. I can't access any of
them.
Make the owner the one you shared with the LAN. Apparently these owners
do not have share rights.

As I said I have had this situation, and while it looks like every thing
is shared correctly it does not work. You have to change the owner
(Folder Properties, Security, Advance) The owner at the top of the
window. This has to agree with the owner who is trying to share the
folder. (I had to use trial and error to get the correct one.)

--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre

On 10/29/2018 8:00 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 10/28/2018 10:15 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
My account details are identical on both computers.

On the DEll all the files I access from Corsair are owned by system
and give me no trouble. On Corsair the files I try to access from Dell
are variously owned by SYSTEM or Eric Stevens. I can't access any of
them.
Make the owner the one you shared with the LAN.Â* Apparently these owners
do not have share rights.

As I said I have had this situation, and while it looks like every thing
is shared correctly it does not work.Â* You have to change the owner
(Folder Properties, Security, Advance)Â* The owner at the top of the
window.Â* This has to agree with the owner who is trying to share the
folder.Â*Â*Â* (I had to use trial and error to get the correct one.)

In thinking about it, I suspect the problem comes from the fact that in
the OS, multiple people can log on to the same computer. Each user has
rights (owns) certain folders. Only the owner can share the folder he
owns, EVEN if he has administrator rights and has full permission to
other folders.

User2 with the same right as User, can not share the folder owned by User.

To get things to work the person who logs on to the OS, must own the
folders he is trying to share.



--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre

On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 08:33:24 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Eric Stevens wrote:

I have tried this
command on both machines and while I get a response from each it comes
and goes so quickly that it its just a barely noticable flicker with
no chance of reading it at all.

Don't run the "whoami" command from start/run, that will as you notice
open a window, run it and then close the window. Instead start a CMD
window from start/run, then when that opens, run the whoami command ...

Yep. I discovered that. I just did WR automatically without thinking.
I had abouy 8 tries before I realised the error of my ways. :-(
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens