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#1
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Need help upgrading
A neighbor's Windows 8.1 laptop seems to have problems with one or more
system files that SFC cannot fix. I've tried several other approaches but she's left with a slow system and Windows Updates doesn't work. I thought that by installing Windows 10, I could bypass the 8.1 problem but how do I get Win 10 if Update doesn't work? Thanks. |
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#2
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Need help upgrading
Alek wrote on 7/9/2016 1:16 PM:
A neighbor's Windows 8.1 laptop seems to have problems with one or more system files that SFC cannot fix. I've tried several other approaches but she's left with a slow system and Windows Updates doesn't work. I thought that by installing Windows 10, I could bypass the 8.1 problem but how do I get Win 10 if Update doesn't work? Thanks. Never mind. Forgot about Media Creation Tool. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...load/windows10 |
#3
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Need help upgrading
Alek wrote:
A neighbor's Windows 8.1 laptop seems to have problems with one or more system files that SFC cannot fix. I've tried several other approaches but she's left with a slow system and Windows Updates doesn't work. I thought that by installing Windows 10, I could bypass the 8.1 problem but how do I get Win 10 if Update doesn't work? Thanks. This is the reset for Windows Update. There is no repair in here, but there is some regsvr32 type re-registration. Thus this is not really all that powerful a procedure. It fixes damage caused by the contents of the download folder or the QMGR. "How to Reset Windows Update in Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8" http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...ate-reset.html ******* There was a bug in SFC caused by a couple non-OS files. They were files like HTML or javascript, included in some update, but they upset SFC. You're supposed to take note of the defective files in whatever log SFC generates, to see if they're really OS materials (like a DLL), versus some sort of garbage/baggage files (HTML). The other way to work (besides SFC), is with DISM. It repairs the WinSXS maintenance folder. Files are hard linked from WinSXS into System32, and the name is changed. That means there are two file name pointers, to the same set of data clusters. That's to give you some idea how DISM is vaguely related to SFC ("they live in different neighborhoods"). You apply these sequentially. The first one gives the currently known status. The second does an actual scan. The third does a repair. Don't do a repair, unless the scan reports trouble. The following is copied right out of my notes file, without edits. See a problem ? Needs Windows Update to fix stuff :-( Presumably, it is using the BITS service. ******* Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth /CheckHealth - This switch option only checks to see if a component corruption marker is already present in the registry. It is just a quick way to see if corruption currently exists, and to inform you if there is corruption. It does not fix anything or create a log. This should be finished almost instantaneous. /ScanHealth - This switch option does not fix any corruption. It only checks for component store corruption and records that corruption to the log file. This is useful for only logging what, if any, corruption exists. This should take around 5-10 minutes to finish. /RestoreHealth - This switch option checks for component store corruption, records the corruption to the log file, and FIXES the image corruption using Windows Update. This should take around 10-15 minutes up to a few hours to finish depending on the level of corruption. ******* [ That procedure doesn't work on Windows 7, because the Windows 7 DISM only supports the first command. The System Update Readiness tool is the tool of choice on Windows 7. I can see help threads missing out on the opportunity... So keep this in mind for the next neighbor :-) I've run this for fun on a Win7 setup, and it passed with flying colors after 10 or 15 minutes. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/947821 ] ******* You can try SFC again after that if you want. But if the two orphan files get reported again, don't be surprised. I never did hear whether a later update removes those files or changes their status. ******* Windows 8 does not have a "wuauserv" problem, so we don't have to worry about that one. My two machines with Win8.1 and a fair number of outstanding (uninstalled) patches, Windows Update draws the list on the screen after only a couple minutes. So WU seems to work from that perspective. Windows 7 is entirely different and a pain in the ass. ******* There is no guarantee that installing Windows 10 is a panacea. I have Windows 10 as a free upgrade over Win7 on my laptop, and my battery life is cut in half. My intention was, to test it without modification, and that's the result so far. I think it took around 12 hours for the Search Indexer to finish indexing all of C: , just to give some idea what all the power was wasted on. Can I beat the **** out of it, and drive the battery life back up. Sure, maybe a little bit. I haven't been working on it. Paul |
#4
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Need help upgrading
Paul wrote on 7/9/2016 3:51 PM:
Alek wrote: A neighbor's Windows 8.1 laptop seems to have problems with one or more system files that SFC cannot fix. I've tried several other approaches but she's left with a slow system and Windows Updates doesn't work. I thought that by installing Windows 10, I could bypass the 8.1 problem but how do I get Win 10 if Update doesn't work? Thanks. This is the reset for Windows Update. There is no repair in here, but there is some regsvr32 type re-registration. Thus this is not really all that powerful a procedure. It fixes damage caused by the contents of the download folder or the QMGR. "How to Reset Windows Update in Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8" http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...ate-reset.html BAT file failed. ******* There was a bug in SFC caused by a couple non-OS files. They were files like HTML or javascript, included in some update, but they upset SFC. You're supposed to take note of the defective files in whatever log SFC generates, to see if they're really OS materials (like a DLL), versus some sort of garbage/baggage files (HTML). The other way to work (besides SFC), is with DISM. It repairs the WinSXS maintenance folder. Files are hard linked from WinSXS into System32, and the name is changed. That means there are two file name pointers, to the same set of data clusters. That's to give you some idea how DISM is vaguely related to SFC ("they live in different neighborhoods"). You apply these sequentially. The first one gives the currently known status. The second does an actual scan. The third does a repair. Don't do a repair, unless the scan reports trouble. "You cannot service a 64-bit OS with a 32-bit version of DISM." [ That procedure doesn't work on Windows 7, because the Windows 7 DISM only supports the first command. The System Update Readiness tool is the tool of choice on Windows 7. I can see help threads missing out on the opportunity... So keep this in mind for the next neighbor :-) I've run this for fun on a Win7 setup, and it passed with flying colors after 10 or 15 minutes. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/947821 ] Tried that. Thanks. |
#5
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Need help upgrading
Wolf K wrote on 7/9/2016 1:52 PM:
On 2016-07-09 13:16, Alek wrote: A neighbor's Windows 8.1 laptop seems to have problems with one or more system files that SFC cannot fix. Have you done a thorough scan for malware? If so, try Recovery (Control Panel -- Recovery -- Open System Restore). You'll see two or more Restore Points, I'd choose the oldest one. This will not affect her data (documents, pictures, etc), but will affect personalisation and software installed after that restore point. Yes. No restore points. Use the Media Creation Tool and install from a flash drive. However, make sure that all personal data has been saved to an external drive first. Not a CD? Thanks. If worse comes to worst, copy all the personal data onto an external drive or a few USB memory sticks, then use the laptop's Recovery utility to bring the machine back to factory fresh condition. This utility uses the OEM Recovery partition. You can see it in Administrative Tools -- Computer Management -- Storage -- Disk Management. You should see something like "Recovery image (OEM Partition)" in the partition list. After OEM recovery, you will have to Update, but most of what you need will be in roll-ups, which will save some time. What are rollups? Personal data: pictures, documents, emails, etc. Find out where they are, and copy from the original locations. Don't rely on the Libraries, since much of their contents aren't the files themselves, but pointers to the files (which will become invalid after recovery). Unasked tip: Persuade your neighbour to buy an external drive, and show her how to backup personal data regularly. :-) I can't even get her to run MBAM on a regular basis! Thanks. |
#6
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Need help upgrading
Alek wrote:
Paul wrote on 7/9/2016 3:51 PM: Alek wrote: A neighbor's Windows 8.1 laptop seems to have problems with one or more system files that SFC cannot fix. I've tried several other approaches but she's left with a slow system and Windows Updates doesn't work. I thought that by installing Windows 10, I could bypass the 8.1 problem but how do I get Win 10 if Update doesn't work? Thanks. This is the reset for Windows Update. There is no repair in here, but there is some regsvr32 type re-registration. Thus this is not really all that powerful a procedure. It fixes damage caused by the contents of the download folder or the QMGR. "How to Reset Windows Update in Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8" http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...ate-reset.html BAT file failed. So when the BAT file failed, what did you conclude ? You have to run the BAT file as administrator, as some of the stuff is likely to have ownership issues. I don't really like the idea of using regsvr32 again to register the DLLs in that script. Maybe that step is failing, but if something earlier is failing (like the step where it stops the four services), it could be the administrator part. I would: 1) Type "cmd" into start. 2) Right-click the top-most entry returned by the search, and select "Run as Administrator". 3) Once the Command Prompt window opens, and the starting path location is System32, you know you're an Administrator. 4) Now, either cd to the bat file and run it cd /d C:\some\path\to\downloaded\bat\ some.bat or just type out the name in full as in C:\some\path\to\downloaded\bat\some.bat Now the script will run as Administrator, and since you have that nice open Command Prompt window, if the script generates any output, you can see it. If you just run the .bat by clicking on it, any Command Prompt window can close on you. ******* There was a bug in SFC caused by a couple non-OS files. They were files like HTML or javascript, included in some update, but they upset SFC. You're supposed to take note of the defective files in whatever log SFC generates, to see if they're really OS materials (like a DLL), versus some sort of garbage/baggage files (HTML). The other way to work (besides SFC), is with DISM. It repairs the WinSXS maintenance folder. Files are hard linked from WinSXS into System32, and the name is changed. That means there are two file name pointers, to the same set of data clusters. That's to give you some idea how DISM is vaguely related to SFC ("they live in different neighborhoods"). You apply these sequentially. The first one gives the currently known status. The second does an actual scan. The third does a repair. Don't do a repair, unless the scan reports trouble. "You cannot service a 64-bit OS with a 32-bit version of DISM." Where did the 32 bit version of dism come from ? Have you checked via a search, to see how many copies of dism.exe are present ? snip Paul |
#7
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Need help upgrading
Paul wrote on 7/10/2016 3:20 AM:
Alek wrote: Paul wrote on 7/9/2016 3:51 PM: Alek wrote: A neighbor's Windows 8.1 laptop seems to have problems with one or more system files that SFC cannot fix. I've tried several other approaches but she's left with a slow system and Windows Updates doesn't work. I thought that by installing Windows 10, I could bypass the 8.1 problem but how do I get Win 10 if Update doesn't work? Thanks. This is the reset for Windows Update. There is no repair in here, but there is some regsvr32 type re-registration. Thus this is not really all that powerful a procedure. It fixes damage caused by the contents of the download folder or the QMGR. "How to Reset Windows Update in Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8" http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...ate-reset.html BAT file failed. So when the BAT file failed, what did you conclude ? You have to run the BAT file as administrator, as some of the stuff is likely to have ownership issues. Did that. I don't really like the idea of using regsvr32 again to register the DLLs in that script. Maybe that step is failing, but if something earlier is failing (like the step where it stops the four services), it could be the administrator part. I would: 1) Type "cmd" into start. 2) Right-click the top-most entry returned by the search, and select "Run as Administrator". 3) Once the Command Prompt window opens, and the starting path location is System32, you know you're an Administrator. 4) Now, either cd to the bat file and run it cd /d C:\some\path\to\downloaded\bat\ some.bat or just type out the name in full as in C:\some\path\to\downloaded\bat\some.bat Now the script will run as Administrator, and since you have that nice open Command Prompt window, if the script generates any output, you can see it. If you just run the .bat by clicking on it, any Command Prompt window can close on you. Did that. ******* There was a bug in SFC caused by a couple non-OS files. They were files like HTML or javascript, included in some update, but they upset SFC. You're supposed to take note of the defective files in whatever log SFC generates, to see if they're really OS materials (like a DLL), versus some sort of garbage/baggage files (HTML). The other way to work (besides SFC), is with DISM. It repairs the WinSXS maintenance folder. Files are hard linked from WinSXS into System32, and the name is changed. That means there are two file name pointers, to the same set of data clusters. That's to give you some idea how DISM is vaguely related to SFC ("they live in different neighborhoods"). You apply these sequentially. The first one gives the currently known status. The second does an actual scan. The third does a repair. Don't do a repair, unless the scan reports trouble. "You cannot service a 64-bit OS with a 32-bit version of DISM." Where did the 32 bit version of dism come from ? The path. Have you checked via a search, to see how many copies of dism.exe are present ? Yes. One in c:\windows\winsxs\amd64_..... One in c:\windows\winsxs\x86_... One in c:\windows\syswow64 One in c:\windows\system32 The latter is the first in PATH. One in c |
#8
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Need help upgrading
Alek wrote on 7/10/2016 4:49 AM:
One in c:\windows\winsxs\amd64_..... One in c:\windows\winsxs\x86_... One in c:\windows\syswow64 One in c:\windows\system32 The latter is the first in PATH. The one in syswow64 is also a 32-bit version. |
#9
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Need help upgrading
On 09/07/2016 18:16, Alek wrote:
A neighbor's Windows 8.1 laptop seems to have problems with one or more system files that SFC cannot fix. I've tried several other approaches but she's left with a slow system and Windows Updates doesn't work. Is there anything working in your hands? Have you thought of the fact that you could be the clumsiest person around? If nothing works then why not just wipe the disk clean and install Windows 10 cleanly? This avoids any corruption and malwares you must have amassed over the years. -- With over 350 million devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. |
#10
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Need help upgrading
Alek wrote:
Alek wrote on 7/10/2016 4:49 AM: One in c:\windows\winsxs\amd64_..... One in c:\windows\winsxs\x86_... One in c:\windows\syswow64 One in c:\windows\system32 The latter is the first in PATH. The one in syswow64 is also a 32-bit version. I checked a Win8.1 install here. It's unpatched, so way behind on updates. The WinSXS files are hard linked into the other two folders. So there are really only two files, but each file has two filenames. You should find two files 211968 bytes (which are actually the same file) and two files 275456 bytes (which are actually the same file). I popped these files into "file.exe", a sniffer, and it reports the system32 one is 64 bit, and the syswow64 one is 32 bit. A classification of PE32+ means 64 bit. Dism32_17031_syswow64.exe 211,968 bytes PE32 = 32 bit Dism64_17031_system32.exe 275,456 bytes PE32+ = 64 bit You can look at the %path% variable, to see the order of examination of folders for executables. When you type "dism.exe" in Command Prompt, it is going to look though the folder list in %path% to find that program. The first one it finds it uses. Since a 64 bit OS can run both 64 bit and 32 bit code, the program is going to load. Even if, for other reasons, it isn't the one for the job. Paul |
#11
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Need help upgrading
I see a way to make recovery disks on this Dell laptop. Do you know if
it uses the recovery partition on the HD as the source or am I just creating a recovery set based on the flawed installation? One more question. If I make a CD/USB using the media creation tool, will it give me the option to nuke and pave? Thanks for your patience. |
#12
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Need help upgrading
On 10/07/2016 21:16, Alek wrote:
I see a way to make recovery disks on this Dell laptop. Do you know if it uses the recovery partition on the HD as the source or am I just creating a recovery set based on the flawed installation? Recovery disk is created from the recovery partition and that partition is normally tamper proof but some idiots like to install all sorts of trial and third party tools to render the system useless. Assuming that partition is still intact then the recovery disk(s) are likely to be clean, factory configuration. One more question. If I make a CD/USB using the media creation tool, will it give me the option to nuke and pave? What do you mean "nuke and pave"? You are not supposed to meddle with Microsoft software so please don't mess it up otherwise you would be here again asking stupid questions without telling us you have inserted some third party virus in to the system Thanks for your patience. We are always patient with some nutters here. -- With over 350 million devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. |
#13
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Need help upgrading
Alek wrote:
I see a way to make recovery disks on this Dell laptop. Do you know if it uses the recovery partition on the HD as the source or am I just creating a recovery set based on the flawed installation? One more question. If I make a CD/USB using the media creation tool, will it give me the option to nuke and pave? Thanks for your patience. No, there's a separate partition. And on modern machines, things can be very confusing. As even a small disk provided, can be partitioned GPT style (instead of just MBR), and the manufacturer puts five partitions. GPT allows a large number of partitions, which manufacturers love. A couple partitions are too small to hold anything of significance, but one partition could be 12GB or 4GB worth. And when you make the DVD set, that's where the software gets the info from. The size may hint at which one holds the goods. A 450MB partition cannot have an entire fresh laptop hard drive image stored in it :-) On some of the smaller machines, if or when the machine makes media, the procedure is more like dism plus oscdimg and converts an install.wim into reinstall media. An approach like that might use smaller starting materials. If it starts with 3.5-4GB of materials, it's compressed. If it is 12GB of materials and makes a 3DVD set, that could be more like backup and restore-style paving. A question I have is, why doesn't malware attack that partition ? It would be just as good of an attack, as ruining all the Restore Points in C:\System Volume Information. And the malware doesn't have to infect it, instead just erase the contents. ******* You can use the MediaCreationTool DVD for nuke and pave. You boot with the DVD, and it will ask you a trick question. It'll tell you if you want to preserve your setup, you should do a repair install (which you can only do from the running OS - a relatively useless suggestion on a sick computer). But there should also be a second option to delete C: and install fresh. And that's available by booting the DVD. On WinXP - could Repair install by booting CD - could Nuke and Pave (clean install) by booting CD On Win10 - can Repair install only from the running OS - can Nuke and Pave by booting the DVD As for activation, older Dells would have a SLIC table in the BIOS. The SLIC table declares "I'm a Dell", and it allows automatic activation of Dell WinXP, Dell Vista, Dell Win7 when installed. So if you have a Dell Royalty OS of the older persuasion, it uses SLIC. Naturally, there is a lot of underground activity out there, hacking SLIC in BIOS images... SLIC is not a license key. The license key involved in such installs is generic. The license key is *not* the same value as the license key on the COA sticker. On Win8 or Win10 computers, instead of SLIC they can use MSDM. And there is no COA sticker, as the key is stored in the BIOS. That's another BIOS ACPI table. The license key is good for just one OS. And if you want, you can use MediaCreationTool media that matches the same trim level, install from that DVD and the DVD should pull the MSDM key automatically and use it. For example, if the laptop came with Dell Win10 Home x64, you could install Microsoft Win10 Home x32 or Microsoft Win10 Home x64. Because you're nuking and paving, you can change bitness, and the key should work with either. You can check for MSDM from Linux. To see if you have one. http://superuser.com/questions/63797...ux-environment sudo xxd /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM So in Linux, the ACPI tables appear to the user, right in the file system (likely copied). There's no reason to be pulling the license key, but it is available if needed. And you can inspect what the PC might have in the BIOS, to better understand the range of activation options (use a Dell OS, use an older Dell OS, use Microsoft Win10 DVD, etc). If you pull the MSDM key, and go to the Microsoft site that allows downloading Win7 or Win8 media, those OEM keys are rejected. Same with the COA sticker on the outside of a Win7 Dell machine. Microsoft provides media support for their own retail products (an OS Microsoft sold you, and not Dell). And for a Dell owner, they're only going to that page because they no longer have a Dell OS on hand. So just when you need media, it's not available. The situation on Win10 is better (at the moment), as a key is not needed to do media downloads. If you need Win10 media, get it now... Not Dec2016. We don't know what the future MediaCreationTool policy will be. Paul |
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