Need help upgrading

A neighbor's Windows 8.1 laptop seems to have problems with one or more
system files that SFC cannot fix. I've tried several other approaches
but she's left with a slow system and Windows Updates doesn't work.

I thought that by installing Windows 10, I could bypass the 8.1 problem
but how do I get Win 10 if Update doesn't work?

Thanks.

Alek wrote on 7/9/2016 1:16 PM:
A neighbor's Windows 8.1 laptop seems to have problems with one or more
system files that SFC cannot fix. I've tried several other approaches
but she's left with a slow system and Windows Updates doesn't work.

I thought that by installing Windows 10, I could bypass the 8.1 problem
but how do I get Win 10 if Update doesn't work?

Thanks.


Never mind. Forgot about Media Creation Tool.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...load/windows10

Alek wrote:
A neighbor's Windows 8.1 laptop seems to have problems with one or more
system files that SFC cannot fix. I've tried several other approaches
but she's left with a slow system and Windows Updates doesn't work.

I thought that by installing Windows 10, I could bypass the 8.1 problem
but how do I get Win 10 if Update doesn't work?

Thanks.

This is the reset for Windows Update. There is no repair in here,
but there is some regsvr32 type re-registration. Thus this is not
really all that powerful a procedure. It fixes damage caused by
the contents of the download folder or the QMGR.

"How to Reset Windows Update in Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8"

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...ate-reset.html

*******

There was a bug in SFC caused by a couple non-OS files.
They were files like HTML or javascript, included in
some update, but they upset SFC. You're supposed to
take note of the defective files in whatever log SFC
generates, to see if they're really OS materials
(like a DLL), versus some sort of garbage/baggage files (HTML).

The other way to work (besides SFC), is with DISM. It repairs
the WinSXS maintenance folder. Files are hard linked from WinSXS into
System32, and the name is changed. That means there are
two file name pointers, to the same set of data clusters.
That's to give you some idea how DISM is vaguely related
to SFC ("they live in different neighborhoods").

You apply these sequentially. The first one gives the
currently known status. The second does an actual scan.
The third does a repair. Don't do a repair, unless the
scan reports trouble.

The following is copied right out of my notes file, without edits.
See a problem ? Needs Windows Update to fix stuff :-(
Presumably, it is using the BITS service.

*******
Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /CheckHealth

Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth

Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth

/CheckHealth - This switch option only checks to see if a component
corruption marker is already present in the registry.
It is just a quick way to see if corruption currently
exists, and to inform you if there is corruption. It
does not fix anything or create a log.
This should be finished almost instantaneous.

/ScanHealth - This switch option does not fix any corruption.
It only checks for component store corruption and records
that corruption to the log file.

This is useful for only logging what, if any, corruption
exists. This should take around 5-10 minutes to finish.

/RestoreHealth - This switch option checks for component store corruption,
records the corruption to the log file, and FIXES the
image corruption using Windows Update. This should take
around 10-15 minutes up to a few hours to finish depending
on the level of corruption.
*******

[ That procedure doesn't work on Windows 7, because the Windows 7
DISM only supports the first command. The System Update Readiness
tool is the tool of choice on Windows 7. I can see help threads
missing out on the opportunity... So keep this in mind for the
next neighbor :-) I've run this for fun on a Win7 setup, and
it passed with flying colors after 10 or 15 minutes.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/947821 ]

*******

You can try SFC again after that if you want. But if the two
orphan files get reported again, don't be surprised.
I never did hear whether a later update removes
those files or changes their status.

*******

Windows 8 does not have a "wuauserv" problem, so we
don't have to worry about that one. My two machines with
Win8.1 and a fair number of outstanding (uninstalled)
patches, Windows Update draws the list on the screen
after only a couple minutes. So WU seems to work
from that perspective. Windows 7 is entirely different
and a pain in the ass.

*******

There is no guarantee that installing Windows 10 is a panacea.
I have Windows 10 as a free upgrade over Win7 on my laptop,
and my battery life is cut in half. My intention was, to
test it without modification, and that's the result
so far. I think it took around 12 hours for the
Search Indexer to finish indexing all of C: , just
to give some idea what all the power was wasted on.

Can I beat the **** out of it, and drive the battery
life back up. Sure, maybe a little bit. I haven't been
working on it.

Paul

Paul wrote on 7/9/2016 3:51 PM:
Alek wrote:
A neighbor's Windows 8.1 laptop seems to have problems with one or more
system files that SFC cannot fix. I've tried several other approaches
but she's left with a slow system and Windows Updates doesn't work.

I thought that by installing Windows 10, I could bypass the 8.1 problem
but how do I get Win 10 if Update doesn't work?

Thanks.

This is the reset for Windows Update. There is no repair in here,
but there is some regsvr32 type re-registration. Thus this is not
really all that powerful a procedure. It fixes damage caused by
the contents of the download folder or the QMGR.

"How to Reset Windows Update in Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8"

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...ate-reset.html


BAT file failed.

*******

There was a bug in SFC caused by a couple non-OS files.
They were files like HTML or javascript, included in
some update, but they upset SFC. You're supposed to
take note of the defective files in whatever log SFC
generates, to see if they're really OS materials
(like a DLL), versus some sort of garbage/baggage files (HTML).

The other way to work (besides SFC), is with DISM. It repairs
the WinSXS maintenance folder. Files are hard linked from WinSXS into
System32, and the name is changed. That means there are
two file name pointers, to the same set of data clusters.
That's to give you some idea how DISM is vaguely related
to SFC ("they live in different neighborhoods").

You apply these sequentially. The first one gives the
currently known status. The second does an actual scan.
The third does a repair. Don't do a repair, unless the
scan reports trouble.

"You cannot service a 64-bit OS with a 32-bit version of DISM."


[ That procedure doesn't work on Windows 7, because the Windows 7
DISM only supports the first command. The System Update Readiness
tool is the tool of choice on Windows 7. I can see help threads
missing out on the opportunity... So keep this in mind for the
next neighbor :-) I've run this for fun on a Win7 setup, and
it passed with flying colors after 10 or 15 minutes.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/947821 ]

Tried that.

Thanks.

Wolf K wrote on 7/9/2016 1:52 PM:
On 2016-07-09 13:16, Alek wrote:
A neighbor's Windows 8.1 laptop seems to have problems with one or more
system files that SFC cannot fix.

Have you done a thorough scan for malware? If so, try Recovery (Control
Panel -- Recovery -- Open System Restore). You'll see two or more
Restore Points, I'd choose the oldest one. This will not affect her data
(documents, pictures, etc), but will affect personalisation and software
installed after that restore point.

Yes.

No restore points.


Use the Media Creation Tool and install from a flash drive. However,
make sure that all personal data has been saved to an external drive first.

Not a CD?


Thanks.

If worse comes to worst, copy all the personal data onto an external
drive or a few USB memory sticks, then use the laptop's Recovery utility
to bring the machine back to factory fresh condition. This utility uses
the OEM Recovery partition. You can see it in Administrative Tools --
Computer Management -- Storage -- Disk Management. You should see
something like "Recovery image (OEM Partition)" in the partition list.
After OEM recovery, you will have to Update, but most of what you need
will be in roll-ups, which will save some time.

What are rollups?


Personal data: pictures, documents, emails, etc. Find out where they
are, and copy from the original locations. Don't rely on the Libraries,
since much of their contents aren't the files themselves, but pointers
to the files (which will become invalid after recovery).

Unasked tip: Persuade your neighbour to buy an external drive, and show
her how to backup personal data regularly.

:-) I can't even get her to run MBAM on a regular basis!

Thanks.

Alek wrote:
Paul wrote on 7/9/2016 3:51 PM:
Alek wrote:
A neighbor's Windows 8.1 laptop seems to have problems with one or more
system files that SFC cannot fix. I've tried several other approaches
but she's left with a slow system and Windows Updates doesn't work.

I thought that by installing Windows 10, I could bypass the 8.1 problem
but how do I get Win 10 if Update doesn't work?

Thanks.
This is the reset for Windows Update. There is no repair in here,
but there is some regsvr32 type re-registration. Thus this is not
really all that powerful a procedure. It fixes damage caused by
the contents of the download folder or the QMGR.

"How to Reset Windows Update in Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8"

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...ate-reset.html


BAT file failed.

So when the BAT file failed, what did you conclude ?

You have to run the BAT file as administrator, as
some of the stuff is likely to have ownership issues.

I don't really like the idea of using regsvr32 again
to register the DLLs in that script. Maybe that step
is failing, but if something earlier is failing (like
the step where it stops the four services), it
could be the administrator part.

I would:

1) Type "cmd" into start.
2) Right-click the top-most entry returned by
the search, and select "Run as Administrator".
3) Once the Command Prompt window opens, and the starting
path location is System32, you know you're an Administrator.
4) Now, either cd to the bat file and run it

cd /d C:\some\path\to\downloaded\bat\
some.bat

or just type out the name in full as in

C:\some\path\to\downloaded\bat\some.bat

Now the script will run as Administrator, and since
you have that nice open Command Prompt window, if
the script generates any output, you can see it.

If you just run the .bat by clicking on it, any
Command Prompt window can close on you.


*******

There was a bug in SFC caused by a couple non-OS files.
They were files like HTML or javascript, included in
some update, but they upset SFC. You're supposed to
take note of the defective files in whatever log SFC
generates, to see if they're really OS materials
(like a DLL), versus some sort of garbage/baggage files (HTML).

The other way to work (besides SFC), is with DISM. It repairs
the WinSXS maintenance folder. Files are hard linked from WinSXS into
System32, and the name is changed. That means there are
two file name pointers, to the same set of data clusters.
That's to give you some idea how DISM is vaguely related
to SFC ("they live in different neighborhoods").

You apply these sequentially. The first one gives the
currently known status. The second does an actual scan.
The third does a repair. Don't do a repair, unless the
scan reports trouble.

"You cannot service a 64-bit OS with a 32-bit version of DISM."

Where did the 32 bit version of dism come from ?

Have you checked via a search, to see how many copies
of dism.exe are present ?

snip

Paul

Paul wrote on 7/10/2016 3:20 AM:
Alek wrote:
Paul wrote on 7/9/2016 3:51 PM:
Alek wrote:
A neighbor's Windows 8.1 laptop seems to have problems with one or more
system files that SFC cannot fix. I've tried several other approaches
but she's left with a slow system and Windows Updates doesn't work.

I thought that by installing Windows 10, I could bypass the 8.1 problem
but how do I get Win 10 if Update doesn't work?

Thanks.
This is the reset for Windows Update. There is no repair in here,
but there is some regsvr32 type re-registration. Thus this is not
really all that powerful a procedure. It fixes damage caused by
the contents of the download folder or the QMGR.

"How to Reset Windows Update in Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8"

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...ate-reset.html


BAT file failed.

So when the BAT file failed, what did you conclude ?

You have to run the BAT file as administrator, as
some of the stuff is likely to have ownership issues.

Did that.

I don't really like the idea of using regsvr32 again
to register the DLLs in that script. Maybe that step
is failing, but if something earlier is failing (like
the step where it stops the four services), it
could be the administrator part.

I would:

1) Type "cmd" into start.
2) Right-click the top-most entry returned by
the search, and select "Run as Administrator".
3) Once the Command Prompt window opens, and the starting
path location is System32, you know you're an Administrator.
4) Now, either cd to the bat file and run it

cd /d C:\some\path\to\downloaded\bat\
some.bat

or just type out the name in full as in

C:\some\path\to\downloaded\bat\some.bat

Now the script will run as Administrator, and since
you have that nice open Command Prompt window, if
the script generates any output, you can see it.

If you just run the .bat by clicking on it, any
Command Prompt window can close on you.

Did that.

*******

There was a bug in SFC caused by a couple non-OS files.
They were files like HTML or javascript, included in
some update, but they upset SFC. You're supposed to
take note of the defective files in whatever log SFC
generates, to see if they're really OS materials
(like a DLL), versus some sort of garbage/baggage files (HTML).

The other way to work (besides SFC), is with DISM. It repairs
the WinSXS maintenance folder. Files are hard linked from WinSXS into
System32, and the name is changed. That means there are
two file name pointers, to the same set of data clusters.
That's to give you some idea how DISM is vaguely related
to SFC ("they live in different neighborhoods").

You apply these sequentially. The first one gives the
currently known status. The second does an actual scan.
The third does a repair. Don't do a repair, unless the
scan reports trouble.

"You cannot service a 64-bit OS with a 32-bit version of DISM."

Where did the 32 bit version of dism come from ?

The path.

Have you checked via a search, to see how many copies
of dism.exe are present ?

Yes.

One in c:\windows\winsxs\amd64_.....
One in c:\windows\winsxs\x86_...
One in c:\windows\syswow64
One in c:\windows\system32

The latter is the first in PATH.

One in c

Alek wrote on 7/10/2016 4:49 AM:

One in c:\windows\winsxs\amd64_.....
One in c:\windows\winsxs\x86_...
One in c:\windows\syswow64
One in c:\windows\system32

The latter is the first in PATH.

The one in syswow64 is also a 32-bit version.

On 09/07/2016 18:16, Alek wrote:
A neighbor's Windows 8.1 laptop seems to have problems with one or more
system files that SFC cannot fix. I've tried several other approaches
but she's left with a slow system and Windows Updates doesn't work.



Is there anything working in your hands? Have you thought of the fact
that you could be the clumsiest person around?

If nothing works then why not just wipe the disk clean and install
Windows 10 cleanly? This avoids any corruption and malwares you must
have amassed over the years.

--
With over 350 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

Alek wrote:
Alek wrote on 7/10/2016 4:49 AM:
One in c:\windows\winsxs\amd64_.....
One in c:\windows\winsxs\x86_...
One in c:\windows\syswow64
One in c:\windows\system32

The latter is the first in PATH.

The one in syswow64 is also a 32-bit version.


I checked a Win8.1 install here. It's unpatched,
so way behind on updates.

The WinSXS files are hard linked into the other two folders.
So there are really only two files, but each file
has two filenames. You should find two files 211968 bytes
(which are actually the same file) and two files 275456 bytes
(which are actually the same file).

I popped these files into "file.exe", a sniffer,
and it reports the system32 one is 64 bit, and the
syswow64 one is 32 bit. A classification of PE32+ means
64 bit.

Dism32_17031_syswow64.exe 211,968 bytes PE32 = 32 bit
Dism64_17031_system32.exe 275,456 bytes PE32+ = 64 bit

You can look at the %path% variable, to see the
order of examination of folders for executables.

When you type "dism.exe" in Command Prompt, it is going
to look though the folder list in %path% to find that
program. The first one it finds it uses. Since a 64 bit
OS can run both 64 bit and 32 bit code, the program is
going to load. Even if, for other reasons, it isn't
the one for the job.

Paul

I see a way to make recovery disks on this Dell laptop. Do you know if
it uses the recovery partition on the HD as the source or am I just
creating a recovery set based on the flawed installation?

One more question. If I make a CD/USB using the media creation tool,
will it give me the option to nuke and pave?

Thanks for your patience.

On 10/07/2016 21:16, Alek wrote:
I see a way to make recovery disks on this Dell laptop. Do you know if
it uses the recovery partition on the HD as the source or am I just
creating a recovery set based on the flawed installation?
Recovery disk is created from the recovery partition and that partition
is normally tamper proof but some idiots like to install all sorts of
trial and third party tools to render the system useless. Assuming that
partition is still intact then the recovery disk(s) are likely to be
clean, factory configuration.


One more question. If I make a CD/USB using the media creation tool,
will it give me the option to nuke and pave?
What do you mean "nuke and pave"? You are not supposed to meddle with
Microsoft software so please don't mess it up otherwise you would be
here again asking stupid questions without telling us you have inserted
some third party virus in to the system


Thanks for your patience.

We are always patient with some nutters here.



--
With over 350 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

Alek wrote:
I see a way to make recovery disks on this Dell laptop. Do you know if
it uses the recovery partition on the HD as the source or am I just
creating a recovery set based on the flawed installation?

One more question. If I make a CD/USB using the media creation tool,
will it give me the option to nuke and pave?

Thanks for your patience.

No, there's a separate partition.

And on modern machines, things can be very confusing. As even a
small disk provided, can be partitioned GPT style (instead of just
MBR), and the manufacturer puts five partitions. GPT allows
a large number of partitions, which manufacturers love. A couple
partitions are too small to hold anything of significance, but
one partition could be 12GB or 4GB worth. And when you make the
DVD set, that's where the software gets the info from. The size
may hint at which one holds the goods. A 450MB partition cannot
have an entire fresh laptop hard drive image stored in it :-)

On some of the smaller machines, if or when the machine
makes media, the procedure is more like dism plus oscdimg
and converts an install.wim into reinstall media. An approach
like that might use smaller starting materials. If it starts
with 3.5-4GB of materials, it's compressed. If it is 12GB of
materials and makes a 3DVD set, that could be more like
backup and restore-style paving.

A question I have is, why doesn't malware attack that partition ?
It would be just as good of an attack, as ruining all the
Restore Points in C:\System Volume Information. And the
malware doesn't have to infect it, instead just erase
the contents.

*******

You can use the MediaCreationTool DVD for nuke and pave.
You boot with the DVD, and it will ask you a trick question.
It'll tell you if you want to preserve your setup, you should
do a repair install (which you can only do from the
running OS - a relatively useless suggestion on a
sick computer). But there should also be a second option
to delete C: and install fresh. And that's available by
booting the DVD.

On WinXP - could Repair install by booting CD
- could Nuke and Pave (clean install) by booting CD
On Win10 - can Repair install only from the running OS
- can Nuke and Pave by booting the DVD

As for activation, older Dells would have a SLIC table
in the BIOS. The SLIC table declares "I'm a Dell", and
it allows automatic activation of Dell WinXP, Dell Vista,
Dell Win7 when installed. So if you have a Dell Royalty OS
of the older persuasion, it uses SLIC. Naturally, there
is a lot of underground activity out there, hacking SLIC
in BIOS images... SLIC is not a license key. The license
key involved in such installs is generic. The license
key is *not* the same value as the license key on the COA
sticker.

On Win8 or Win10 computers, instead of SLIC they can use
MSDM. And there is no COA sticker, as the key is stored
in the BIOS. That's another BIOS ACPI table. The license
key is good for just one OS. And if you want, you can use
MediaCreationTool media that matches the same trim level,
install from that DVD and the DVD should pull the MSDM key
automatically and use it. For example, if the laptop came
with Dell Win10 Home x64, you could install
Microsoft Win10 Home x32 or Microsoft Win10 Home x64.
Because you're nuking and paving, you can change
bitness, and the key should work with either.

You can check for MSDM from Linux. To see if you have one.

http://superuser.com/questions/63797...ux-environment

sudo xxd /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM

So in Linux, the ACPI tables appear to the user, right
in the file system (likely copied). There's no reason
to be pulling the license key, but it is available if
needed. And you can inspect what the PC might have
in the BIOS, to better understand the range of
activation options (use a Dell OS, use an older
Dell OS, use Microsoft Win10 DVD, etc).

If you pull the MSDM key, and go to the Microsoft
site that allows downloading Win7 or Win8 media,
those OEM keys are rejected. Same with the COA sticker
on the outside of a Win7 Dell machine. Microsoft provides
media support for their own retail products (an
OS Microsoft sold you, and not Dell). And for a
Dell owner, they're only going to that page because
they no longer have a Dell OS on hand. So just when
you need media, it's not available. The situation
on Win10 is better (at the moment), as a key is not
needed to do media downloads. If you need Win10 media,
get it now... Not Dec2016. We don't know what the
future MediaCreationTool policy will be.

Paul