upgrading to W7 / USB3 Q's ? :-)

Hi all,

(sorry for crossposting from microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware, as last
response in there was in October ?!)

Have to soon upgrade Aunt's system box from XP Home edition to W7 Home
Premium,
....so before / whilst at it, I'll pop in a pcie x1 USB 3 card, and a Seagate
1TB Expansion Desktop Hard Drive,
....to pump up data transfer speeds whilst running (W7's) Files and Settings
Transfer Wizard, and later use for boot drive backups etc.

If I get a StarTech USB3 pcie x1 card with a SATA power connector on it, (or
a Dynamode brand that has a molex power connector on it),
....and get the above mentioned Seagate external hard-disk which is supplied
with a power supply,
....and NOT connect a SATA or MOLEX pwr supply to the x1 pcie USB3 card,
....will the external Seagate hd / USB3 lead try to suck out more current
that the pcie x1 USB3 card can supply, ....because I have not connected
extra pwr supply to SATA or MOlex connector on USB 3.0 card ?

best regards, ...and a Happy New Year to all,

Richard

On 1/11/2014, RJK posted:
Hi all,

(sorry for crossposting from microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware, as
last response in there was in October ?!)

Have to soon upgrade Aunt's system box from XP Home edition to W7
Home
Premium,
...so before / whilst at it, I'll pop in a pcie x1 USB 3 card, and a
Seagate
1TB Expansion Desktop Hard Drive,
...to pump up data transfer speeds whilst running (W7's) Files and
Settings
Transfer Wizard, and later use for boot drive backups etc.

If I get a StarTech USB3 pcie x1 card with a SATA power connector on
it, (or
a Dynamode brand that has a molex power connector on it),
...and get the above mentioned Seagate external hard-disk which is
supplied
with a power supply,
...and NOT connect a SATA or MOLEX pwr supply to the x1 pcie USB3
card,
...will the external Seagate hd / USB3 lead try to suck out more
current
that the pcie x1 USB3 card can supply, ....because I have not
connected
extra pwr supply to SATA or MOlex connector on USB 3.0 card ?

best regards, ...and a Happy New Year to all,

Richard

Just connect the power supply lead.

Some cards won't work if you don't, but I can't imagine why you
wouldn't won't to do it anyway. Why ask for trouble?

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On 1/11/2014, Gene E. Bloch posted:
wouldn't won't to do it

Or maybe I meant "wouldn't want to do it".

The spell checker was happy but the poster was careless...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On 1/11/2014 6:38 PM, RJK wrote:
Hi all,

(sorry for crossposting from microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware, as last
response in there was in October ?!)

Have to soon upgrade Aunt's system box from XP Home edition to W7 Home
Premium,
...so before / whilst at it, I'll pop in a pcie x1 USB 3 card, and a Seagate
1TB Expansion Desktop Hard Drive,
...to pump up data transfer speeds whilst running (W7's) Files and Settings
Transfer Wizard, and later use for boot drive backups etc.

If I get a StarTech USB3 pcie x1 card with a SATA power connector on it, (or
a Dynamode brand that has a molex power connector on it),
...and get the above mentioned Seagate external hard-disk which is supplied
with a power supply,
...and NOT connect a SATA or MOLEX pwr supply to the x1 pcie USB3 card,
...will the external Seagate hd / USB3 lead try to suck out more current
that the pcie x1 USB3 card can supply, ....because I have not connected
extra pwr supply to SATA or MOlex connector on USB 3.0 card ?

best regards, ...and a Happy New Year to all,

Richard


Startech provide user manuals.

http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapte...pter~PEXUSB3S2

"OPTIONAL: Connect an LP4 molex power connector from the computer’s power supply
to the LP4 connector on the card. This is only required if using the
ports with bus-powered USB devices (no external power adapter) or
if experiencing connectivity issues."

If you're using a 3.5" USB3 hard drive with external adapter,
then it won't be drawing significant power. It's the 2.5" hard
drives that you have to watch. They don't have their own power adapter.

*******

The PCI Express slots (all of them), provide 3.3V and 12V.
There is no 5V in the slot.

The PCI Express card has "magnetics" on it. A coil of wire on
a circular former. That tells you the unit has a switching converter
for some reason. Linear regulators don't need magnetics, but linear
regulators are thermally limited on large loads. Whereas, switching
converters are typically more efficient (80% switcher versus 40% for a linear
in this application), and so if you see a switching converter, you suspect
it has more power regulating capacity (before it overheats). The switcher
could be there to make a core voltage for the USB3 chip. But since there
is no identifiable source of 5V on there, I have to assume the switcher
is for +5V, and it's good for at least a few hundred milliamps if not more.

So that gives you a rough idea, what I'm looking for when inspecting
that particular card type. Scan for linear regulators first. Know
there is no source of 5V visible. If a switcher is present, it's likely
the source of 5V (unless you plug in the optional cable to take
the place of the switcher output).

The only thing unclear to me, is how the switcher knows the optional
cable is in place. I can think of a number of methods to have it
do the right thing. The fact the Molex (or SATA Power) has both
+5V and +12V on it, you could sense the +12V and use it to control
the disconnection/disabling of the switcher supply.

A Molex connector is good for around 6 to 8 amps. A Sata power
is good for 3 amps. In either case, that should be enough to run
two USB3 ports at 0.9 amps each max. If you buy a card with four
ports, then you should see a Molex on one of those, as the optional
power input point. As the Molex is a nicer all-round connector for
computer wiring. You can still burn a Molex (I've done it), but
they're generally pretty reliable. The most reliable ones, were
the original ones, with the extreme insertion force. The Chinese
knock-offs don't hold quite as tightly (because the customers
complained :-) ). Good Molex connectors are brutal to install or
remove. That's how they were designed to resist thermal expansion
and falling out.

Paul

On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 23:38:49 -0000, RJK wrote:
(sorry for crossposting from microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware, as last
response in there was in October ?!)


The word "crossposting" doesn't mean what you think it means.

What you did was REposting -- and under the circumstances I'd
probably have done the same.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

"Stan Brown" wrote in message
t...
On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 23:38:49 -0000, RJK wrote:
(sorry for crossposting from microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware, as last
response in there was in October ?!)


The word "crossposting" doesn't mean what you think it means.

What you did was REposting -- and under the circumstances I'd
probably have done the same.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

I stand corrected but, I did know the difference,
....due to my age I now often say one thing whilst meaning something else !

regards,

Richard

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message
...
On 1/11/2014, Gene E. Bloch posted:
wouldn't won't to do it

Or maybe I meant "wouldn't want to do it".

The spell checker was happy but the poster was careless...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

I agree, about "just go on and connect it," but, due to an unusual spell of
laziness, regarding cutting a couple of nylon ties where I would have tidies
up surplus cables inside Aunts' system box,
....and then tying them up again etc, I thought I'd chuck in a Q.
....anyhooo Pauls' info. seems to indicate that if one is not going to be
using any USB3 bus powered hardware, (and on this PC such will not be used),
I may be able to get away with it !
....and by the time I get there, I may be more enthusiastic !

regards, Richard

"Paul" wrote in message
...
On 1/11/2014 6:38 PM, RJK wrote:
Hi all,

(sorry for crossposting from microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware, as last
response in there was in October ?!)

Have to soon upgrade Aunt's system box from XP Home edition to W7 Home
Premium,
...so before / whilst at it, I'll pop in a pcie x1 USB 3 card, and a
Seagate
1TB Expansion Desktop Hard Drive,
...to pump up data transfer speeds whilst running (W7's) Files and
Settings
Transfer Wizard, and later use for boot drive backups etc.

If I get a StarTech USB3 pcie x1 card with a SATA power connector on it,
(or
a Dynamode brand that has a molex power connector on it),
...and get the above mentioned Seagate external hard-disk which is
supplied
with a power supply,
...and NOT connect a SATA or MOLEX pwr supply to the x1 pcie USB3 card,
...will the external Seagate hd / USB3 lead try to suck out more current
that the pcie x1 USB3 card can supply, ....because I have not connected
extra pwr supply to SATA or MOlex connector on USB 3.0 card ?

best regards, ...and a Happy New Year to all,

Richard


Startech provide user manuals.

http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapte...pter~PEXUSB3S2

"OPTIONAL: Connect an LP4 molex power connector from the computer’s
power supply
to the LP4 connector on the card. This is only required if
using the
ports with bus-powered USB devices (no external power
adapter) or
if experiencing connectivity issues."

If you're using a 3.5" USB3 hard drive with external adapter,
then it won't be drawing significant power. It's the 2.5" hard
drives that you have to watch. They don't have their own power adapter.

*******

The PCI Express slots (all of them), provide 3.3V and 12V.
There is no 5V in the slot.

The PCI Express card has "magnetics" on it. A coil of wire on
a circular former. That tells you the unit has a switching converter
for some reason. Linear regulators don't need magnetics, but linear
regulators are thermally limited on large loads. Whereas, switching
converters are typically more efficient (80% switcher versus 40% for a
linear
in this application), and so if you see a switching converter, you suspect
it has more power regulating capacity (before it overheats). The switcher
could be there to make a core voltage for the USB3 chip. But since there
is no identifiable source of 5V on there, I have to assume the switcher
is for +5V, and it's good for at least a few hundred milliamps if not
more.

So that gives you a rough idea, what I'm looking for when inspecting
that particular card type. Scan for linear regulators first. Know
there is no source of 5V visible. If a switcher is present, it's likely
the source of 5V (unless you plug in the optional cable to take
the place of the switcher output).

The only thing unclear to me, is how the switcher knows the optional
cable is in place. I can think of a number of methods to have it
do the right thing. The fact the Molex (or SATA Power) has both
+5V and +12V on it, you could sense the +12V and use it to control
the disconnection/disabling of the switcher supply.

A Molex connector is good for around 6 to 8 amps. A Sata power
is good for 3 amps. In either case, that should be enough to run
two USB3 ports at 0.9 amps each max. If you buy a card with four
ports, then you should see a Molex on one of those, as the optional
power input point. As the Molex is a nicer all-round connector for
computer wiring. You can still burn a Molex (I've done it), but
they're generally pretty reliable. The most reliable ones, were
the original ones, with the extreme insertion force. The Chinese
knock-offs don't hold quite as tightly (because the customers
complained :-) ). Good Molex connectors are brutal to install or
remove. That's how they were designed to resist thermal expansion
and falling out.

Paul


Many thanks,

Richard

On 1/12/2014, RJK posted:
"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message
...
On 1/11/2014, Gene E. Bloch posted:
wouldn't won't to do it

Or maybe I meant "wouldn't want to do it".

The spell checker was happy but the poster was careless...

-- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

I agree, about "just go on and connect it," but, due to an unusual
spell of laziness, regarding cutting a couple of nylon ties where I
would have tidies up surplus cables inside Aunts' system box,
...and then tying them up again etc, I thought I'd chuck in a Q.
...anyhooo Pauls' info. seems to indicate that if one is not going to
be using any USB3 bus powered hardware, (and on this PC such will not
be used), I may be able to get away with it !
...and by the time I get there, I may be more enthusiastic !

regards, Richard

Paul's remark came from reading the documentation for *your* card; mine
came from reading comments somwhere about some cards. At this point, I
don't think I could track the data down; it was in customer reviews on
Amazon and Newegg of a not small variety of cards.

So go ahead and follow Paul's advice, since mine is generic and
shouldn't relate to your specific card, since it wasn't reported for
all cards.

But if you do end up having some trouble, then by all means cut those
cable ties :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message
...
On 1/12/2014, RJK posted:
"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message
...
On 1/11/2014, Gene E. Bloch posted:
wouldn't won't to do it

Or maybe I meant "wouldn't want to do it".

The spell checker was happy but the poster was careless...

-- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

I agree, about "just go on and connect it," but, due to an unusual spell
of laziness, regarding cutting a couple of nylon ties where I would have
tidies up surplus cables inside Aunts' system box,
...and then tying them up again etc, I thought I'd chuck in a Q.
...anyhooo Pauls' info. seems to indicate that if one is not going to be
using any USB3 bus powered hardware, (and on this PC such will not be
used), I may be able to get away with it !
...and by the time I get there, I may be more enthusiastic !

regards, Richard

Paul's remark came from reading the documentation for *your* card; mine
came from reading comments somwhere about some cards. At this point, I
don't think I could track the data down; it was in customer reviews on
Amazon and Newegg of a not small variety of cards.

So go ahead and follow Paul's advice, since mine is generic and shouldn't
relate to your specific card, since it wasn't reported for all cards.

But if you do end up having some trouble, then by all means cut those
cable ties :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

....had to call in to tend to Aunts' PC lunchtime today, as her CR2032
battery had gone flat, ( bloody thing only lasted four years ! ...just
kidding ! ) ,
....so I casted an eye over available SATA/MOLEX pwr conectors, whilst I was
rummaging around in there, and it will not be a big job to cut those nylon
ties and connect a pwr supply to USB3 pcie card,
.....so I will be doing the job properly ! :-)

regards, Richard

On 1/12/2014, RJK posted:
"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message
...
On 1/12/2014, RJK posted:
"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message
...
On 1/11/2014, Gene E. Bloch posted:
wouldn't won't to do it

Or maybe I meant "wouldn't want to do it".

The spell checker was happy but the poster was careless...

-- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

I agree, about "just go on and connect it," but, due to an unusual
spell of laziness, regarding cutting a couple of nylon ties where
I would have tidies up surplus cables inside Aunts' system box,
...and then tying them up again etc, I thought I'd chuck in a Q.
...anyhooo Pauls' info. seems to indicate that if one is not going
to be using any USB3 bus powered hardware, (and on this PC such
will not be used), I may be able to get away with it !
...and by the time I get there, I may be more enthusiastic !

regards, Richard

Paul's remark came from reading the documentation for *your* card;
mine came from reading comments somwhere about some cards. At this
point, I don't think I could track the data down; it was in
customer reviews on Amazon and Newegg of a not small variety of
cards.

So go ahead and follow Paul's advice, since mine is generic and
shouldn't relate to your specific card, since it wasn't reported
for all cards.

But if you do end up having some trouble, then by all means cut
those cable ties :-)

-- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

...had to call in to tend to Aunts' PC lunchtime today, as her CR2032
battery had gone flat, ( bloody thing only lasted four years !
...just kidding ! ) ,
...so I casted an eye over available SATA/MOLEX pwr conectors, whilst
I was rummaging around in there, and it will not be a big job to cut
those nylon ties and connect a pwr supply to USB3 pcie card,
....so I will be doing the job properly ! :-)

regards, Richard

Great! Time to tip an ale to that!

RANT[1]
My complaint about the Molex power connectors is that they fit so badly
that I'm afraid I'll break the circuit board or whichever device when
inserting or removing them - or wor4se, when it pops, create a bad cur
in my had when it smashes into the sharp edge of the case.
/RANT

Some USB3 cards use the SATA power connectors, which are far more user
friendly.

[1] Or WHINE.../WHINE, if you prefer :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On 1/13/2014, Gene E. Bloch posted:
On 1/12/2014, RJK posted:
"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message
...
On 1/12/2014, RJK posted:
"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message
...
On 1/11/2014, Gene E. Bloch posted:
wouldn't won't to do it

Or maybe I meant "wouldn't want to do it".

The spell checker was happy but the poster was careless...

-- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

I agree, about "just go on and connect it," but, due to an
unusual spell of laziness, regarding cutting a couple of nylon
ties where I would have tidies up surplus cables inside Aunts'
system box,
...and then tying them up again etc, I thought I'd chuck in a Q.
...anyhooo Pauls' info. seems to indicate that if one is not
going to be using any USB3 bus powered hardware, (and on this PC
such will not be used), I may be able to get away with it !
...and by the time I get there, I may be more enthusiastic !

regards, Richard

Paul's remark came from reading the documentation for *your* card;
mine came from reading comments somwhere about some cards. At this
point, I don't think I could track the data down; it was in
customer reviews on Amazon and Newegg of a not small variety of
cards.

So go ahead and follow Paul's advice, since mine is generic and
shouldn't relate to your specific card, since it wasn't reported
for all cards.

But if you do end up having some trouble, then by all means cut
those cable ties :-)

-- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

...had to call in to tend to Aunts' PC lunchtime today, as her
CR2032 battery had gone flat, ( bloody thing only lasted four years
! ...just kidding ! ) ,
...so I casted an eye over available SATA/MOLEX pwr conectors,
whilst I was rummaging around in there, and it will not be a big
job to cut those nylon ties and connect a pwr supply to USB3 pcie
card,
....so I will be doing the job properly ! :-)

regards, Richard

Great! Time to tip an ale to that!

RANT[1]
My complaint about the Molex power connectors is that they fit so
badly that I'm afraid I'll break the circuit board or whichever
device when inserting or removing them - or wor4se, when it pops,
create a bad cur in my had when it smashes into the sharp edge of the
case.
/RANT

Some USB3 cards use the SATA power connectors, which are far more
user friendly.

[1] Or WHINE.../WHINE, if you prefer :-)

wor4se = worse, cur = cut

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On 1/13/2014 2:59 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:


wor4se = worse, cur = cut


Switch on the BlochSpellChecker :-)

Or maybe change your posts to Klingon, if the
spelling is easier :-)

Paul

On 1/13/2014, Paul posted:
On 1/13/2014 2:59 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:


wor4se = worse, cur = cut


Switch on the BlochSpellChecker :-)

Or maybe change your posts to Klingon, if the
spelling is easier :-)

Paul

Given the observed quality of the BlochSpellChecker, I think your
second suggestion is better :-)

Thanks, Paul, we can always depend on you. This has been a fairly dull
day here, so your suggestion adds a needed ray of sunshine.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)