Is it normal for a laptop to not provide 12V on SATA?

On 2/2/20 2:02 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

[snip]

I now have a phone that uses a USB-C connector. It's a lot easier to
connect than micro USB-B.

The micro **** should never have been invented.* I wonder how many
phones are thrown away because the flimsy charging socket has broken.

Maybe the mini-B was too thick for modern thin devices.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The hands that help are better far than the lips that pray." [Robert G.
Ingersoll]

Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 03 Feb 2020 13:48:42 -0000, NY wrote:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
newsp.0fdp61w9wdg98l@glass...
You know, I suggested this when USB first came out (bloody annoying
having
to try twice to plug a USB plug in - there's no way to tell which way up
it goes without peering inside the socket and the plug) and everyone
said
it would be impossible to do.... I should have patented it.

Anker used to put their logo consistently on one side of the micro USB
plugs
on their cables. I quickly learned that the logo should face me when I
have
the screen of my phone towards me. But the most recent plugs that I
ordered
from them don't have their logo on (nor the standard USB logo) so there
isn't that to help you work out which way round to put the plug.

Most PCs had them like that when USB first came out, the logo on the
top. Then I worked in a place that had Apple Macs. They all faced
down. Nowadays I think it's pot luck which way round they go. Mind
you, I just checked my main desktop (homebuilt, Corsair case with
Gigabyte motherboard) and my laptop (Acer) and both have them all logo
up (or in the case of the back of the tower, what would have been up in
a horizontal case). Maybe it's Apple that got me mixed up forever more.

DAVID!!!! Which way up are your Mac ones? I don't have any

The consistency of the position of the USB tab,
is defined by the available connectors for sale.

These are typically right-angle connectors affixed to the surface
of a PCB. The same approach is used on the I/O plate area,
where the planar is the motherboard, as is used on PCI or
PCI Express plugin cards, where the card PCB is the planar.

There is no particular reason for those "stack" connectors
to be designed two different ways. One way suffices.

If you look at SATA, the connector on a planar is always
oriented the "one way". When they introduced right-angle cabling
to solve the "this bumps into the door" problem,
they were careful to make both right-angle and left-angle
connectors. This means if a stack connector for SATA was
involved (like my new machine uses), you can use a right-angle
for the top connector and a straight for the bottom connector.
And if you were dealing with SATA drives, there could be
situations where a left angle (cable pointing upwards), is
good for the very lowest SATA drive. That's so the angular
connector would not bump into the bottom of the
computer case.

Summary: Planar-mounted connectors take one form.

Cablings are created, to deal with the fuss,
with sufficient options existing to dodge overhanging
hardware bits and pieces.

Straight peripheral connectors work "most of the time".

The backs of TV sets may have cable makers provide
"right" or "left" angled connectors, so the TV can be
shoved against the wall. Maybe for VESA bracket mounts
or the like. The "hump" for a VESA bracket, may provide
sufficient clearance for cabling at the back. The angle
type for the connector, being selected so the cable
hangs down to reduce stress on the cable.

It really isn't random. There's a pattern. Engage
your pattern matcher.

I believe USB.org also has labeling requirements for
devices, where the logo goes, what symbol to use and so on.
USB.org is better than some standards bodies (those standards
bodies being unbelievable lazy). Things have gotten a little
out of control at USB.org in the last few years (marketing
monkeys run amok when picking names for stuff), but historically
they were a respectable organization.

Paul

On 2/2/20 2:45 PM, nospam wrote:

[snip]

it was commonly used for rs232 serial, but also used for various other
things, including parallel, scsi, video, audio and custom purposes.

There are several connectors in that D series, with different numbers of
pins (numbers in the list are number of pins):

DE9 PC: serial ports on later machines, CGA/MDA/HGC/EGA video connectors

DE15 (3-row but same size as DE9) PC VGA video connectors

DA15 PC: old (pre-USB) game ports

DB25 PC: RS232 on old machines, printer connector, IIRC I've seen one
for SCSI

DC37 PC: external connector for floppy drives 3-4 on original PC

DD50 (large 3-row) too big for PC, although I have seen it used once
elsewhere

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The hands that help are better far than the lips that pray." [Robert G.
Ingersoll]

On 2/2/20 2:45 PM, nospam wrote:
In article op.0fdlxmwmwdg98l@glass, Commander Kinsey
wrote:

I now have a phone that uses a USB-C connector. It's a lot easier to
connect than micro USB-B.

The micro **** should never have been invented. I wonder how many phones are
thrown away because the flimsy charging socket has broken.

a lot.

it's one of the worst connectors ever designed.

IIRC that has never happened to me with USB phones. It happened a lot
with the old barrel connectors (happened with laptops too).

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The hands that help are better far than the lips that pray." [Robert G.
Ingersoll]

On 2/2/20 2:45 PM, nospam wrote:

[snip]

consider a bus-powered usb hub.

the host port can source 500ma, but since the hub has more than one
downstream usb port, that 500ma must be divided up, plus a little for
the hub itself.

I have a couple of little USB-powered fans that need less than 200mA
each, and have used a bus powered hub to operate both from one port.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The hands that help are better far than the lips that pray." [Robert G.
Ingersoll]

On Mon, 03 Feb 2020 17:28:02 -0000, Snit wrote:

On 2/3/20 10:17 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 2/2/20 11:57 AM, Snit wrote:

[snip]

Now, I'm thinking of a movie I saw last century, where a man had a
DB25 connector in the back of his neck (it was convenient for the
robot).


Sounds familiar -- plugs in heads at least. I think Dark Mirror even
did that.

The one I remember is a scifi/horror movie called "Saturn 3".


Name is familiar... not sure I ever saw it.

Also familiar to me by name only, I think it's quite old.

On Mon, 03 Feb 2020 17:22:56 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 2/2/20 2:00 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

[snip]

I got those mixed up once. DB25 was used for parallel and serial. If
you connected the wrong one, you shorted the power from the motherboard
and killed it instantly.

Most computers had a DB25 male for a serial port.

Not the ones I had, they were newer and had a 9 pin serial. Hence when I borrowed somebody's old printer, I assumed that since it had 25 pins it must be parallel, so I changed the gender I think.

The standard connector
for a parallel (printer) port was Centronics-36. This was too wide for
the IBM-PC expansion slot, so they used a DB25 female.

Not sure why the printer end was so large. Centronics-36 was enormous.

The thing I learned to help remember the genders is "Ma Bell is female"
(referring to a modem which was often connected to a serial port). The
serial port on the computer used the opposite gender.

On 2/3/20 10:45 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Mon, 03 Feb 2020 17:28:02 -0000, Snit
wrote:

On 2/3/20 10:17 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 2/2/20 11:57 AM, Snit wrote:

[snip]

Now, I'm thinking of a movie I saw last century, where a man had a
DB25 connector in the back of his neck (it was convenient for the
robot).


Sounds familiar -- plugs in heads at least. I think Dark Mirror even
did that.

The one I remember is a scifi/horror movie called "Saturn 3".


Name is familiar... not sure I ever saw it.

Also familiar to me by name only, I think it's quite old.

Agreed. I used to watch a number of older movies and TV shows. Became a
fan of The Prisoner that way.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

In article op.0fe78jkpwdg98l@glass, Commander Kinsey
wrote:

You know, I suggested this when USB first came out (bloody annoying having
to try twice to plug a USB plug in - there's no way to tell which way up
it goes without peering inside the socket and the plug) and everyone said
it would be impossible to do.... I should have patented it.

Anker used to put their logo consistently on one side of the micro USB plugs
on their cables. I quickly learned that the logo should face me when I have
the screen of my phone towards me. But the most recent plugs that I ordered
from them don't have their logo on (nor the standard USB logo) so there
isn't that to help you work out which way round to put the plug.

Most PCs had them like that when USB first came out, the logo on the top.
Then I worked in a place that had Apple Macs. They all faced down.

logos are not a reliable method. the logo is *usually* on the top but
not always, and some cords have no logo at all.

a much better method is look for the seam on the usb plug itself, which
almost always faces down when the usb ports are horizontal. for hosts
that have vertical usb ports, it varies, but is at least consistent for
all ports on the same host.

In article , Mark Lloyd
wrote:

I now have a phone that uses a USB-C connector. It's a lot easier to
connect than micro USB-B.

The micro **** should never have been invented.* I wonder how many
phones are thrown away because the flimsy charging socket has broken.

Maybe the mini-B was too thick for modern thin devices.

it was, but that doesn't excuse the awful design of micro-usb.

nospam wrote:

logos are not a reliable method
[for determining correct plug insertion].
the logo is *usually* on the top but
not always, and some cords have no logo at all.

If I normally used the same cord with the same device
which was often I would put a dab of paint on the
upside of the plug. Never a problem plugging it
in after that...

On Mon, 03 Feb 2020 17:28:17 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 2/2/20 2:02 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

[snip]

I now have a phone that uses a USB-C connector. It's a lot easier to
connect than micro USB-B.

The micro **** should never have been invented. I wonder how many
phones are thrown away because the flimsy charging socket has broken.

Maybe the mini-B was too thick for modern thin devices.

Maybe the devices are too thin to be sensible. If something has a requirement to plug it into something else, it has to have a fair sized plug that won't break with average daily use. If we have to have wafer thin phones, then make them charge by induction or something. You just can't fit a sensible sized plug on a phone.

On Mon, 03 Feb 2020 18:05:28 -0000, nospam wrote:

In article , Mark Lloyd
wrote:

I now have a phone that uses a USB-C connector. It's a lot easier to
connect than micro USB-B.

The micro **** should never have been invented. I wonder how many
phones are thrown away because the flimsy charging socket has broken.

Maybe the mini-B was too thick for modern thin devices.

it was, but that doesn't excuse the awful design of micro-usb.

Could anything that small be any better?

"Commander Kinsey" wrote:

If we have to have wafer thin phones,
then make them charge by induction or
something. You just can't fit a sensible
sized plug on a phone.

Wireless charging is great. My last two
phones have had it. Prediction: Phones
of the future will have no holes at all...

In article op.0ffg182jwdg98l@glass, Commander Kinsey
wrote:

I now have a phone that uses a USB-C connector. It's a lot easier to
connect than micro USB-B.

The micro **** should never have been invented. I wonder how many
phones are thrown away because the flimsy charging socket has broken.

Maybe the mini-B was too thick for modern thin devices.

it was, but that doesn't excuse the awful design of micro-usb.

Could anything that small be any better?

usb-c and lightning are both smaller and better.