Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10

https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/

No help from Microsoft staff in any help
forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office,
etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block
criticism.

Mayayana wrote:

https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/

No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very
latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block
criticism.

Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical
responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few
keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general
troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not
return to actually work on the issue. They are drive-by one-time
automatons puking out canned responses. Look at their replies. You
really think someone cogitated those responses on their own that outline
some general procedure that obviously doesn't address the specific
issue? It's a way to push off the customer: get them busy and maybe
they accidentally fix their own problem, so they don't come and the
response looks like it worked.

"Keep 'em busy so they don't know the response is irrelevant." It's the
same reason you hear music "noise" while on hold, so you don't become
impatient to think that the call got disconnected because the hold is so
damn long. What, you've seen seen some slacker at work that stays busy
doing nothing hoping his supervisor doesn't realize he/she isn't doing
any actual work? That's what MS reps in the forums do: make noise,
don't address the issue, keep you busy, hope you don't realize they
haven't a clue how to actually troubleshoot the issue.

The only help you ever got in Microsoft's forums was from other users;
that is, you rely on peer support there, not Microsoft pseudo-support.
This isn't new. Been that way since the dawn of their web-based forums.
That those useless Microsoft reps that puke out fake advice are leaving
is probably a good thing: the user isn't misled into thinking they
received help and the thread doesn't look busy, so someone else that
could help is also not misled into thinking help was given. Those MS
reps are more trolls (experts in subterfuge to hide their ineptitude)
than in providing help.

Note: MVPs there are /*not*/ Microsoft employees.

Of course, Microsoft is going even further. Hell, why stop with a
threat of non-participation when you can be an even bigger asshole just
because you can. "Some forums will be locked, preventing users from
helping each other as well." You won't even be able to get peer support
there. Microsoft abandoned Usenet after a few years because they didn't
control Usenet (using the excuse that a later version of their Windows
product ceased including an NNTP server). They're doing the same in
their web-based forums: disable users giving useful help to other users
and instead having their uneducated and inexperienced rep puke out
canned responses that obviously do not target the issue.

Microsoft's choices have no effect here, though.

VanguardLH on Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:55:03 -0500 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
Mayayana wrote:

https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/

No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very
latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block
criticism.

Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical
responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few
keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general
troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not
return to actually work on the issue.

Microsoft was in the business of selling software (now it is
renting it out). Support which does not lead to income doesn't matter
to them.
Their web based forums are just as "helpful" as their help
"function." You'd think they'd at least have a means to look up the
error codes they provide.

Nerts, I suspect that in a lot of cases "tech support" is really
just a small shell script. And not just at MS.

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

Mayayana wrote:

https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...ating-in-some-
support-forums/

No help from Microsoft staff in any help
forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office,
etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block
criticism.

Literally the only time I ever asked MS for help was to verify that a Windows
95 serial was legit. (It was; user error.) Beyond that...?

A friend used to be a low-level manager/supervisor in an MS call center
around 15-20 years ago. She has absolutely no technical knowledge whatsoever.
Take that however you want to.

--
We will love you till you learn to love yourself.

On 6/11/2018 7:55 AM, VanguardLH wrote [in part]:
Mayayana wrote:

https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/

No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very
latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block
criticism.

Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical
responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few
keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general
troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not
return to actually work on the issue. They are drive-by one-time
automatons puking out canned responses. Look at their replies. You
really think someone cogitated those responses on their own that outline
some general procedure that obviously doesn't address the specific
issue? It's a way to push off the customer: get them busy and maybe
they accidentally fix their own problem, so they don't come and the
response looks like it worked.

In other words, Microsoft employees address problems in the forums with
the same type of scripts that are used by many companies' customer
support call centers. If you have a problem that is not addressed in
the script, you are led very much astray.

I have experienced this with Microsoft's call center, so why would
anyone expect something different with the forums?

--
David E. Ross
http://www.rossde.com/

First you say you do, and then you don't.
And then you say you will, but then won't.
You're undecided now, so what're you goin' to do?
From a 1950s song
That should be Donald Trump's theme song. He obviously
does not understand "commitment", whether it is about
policy or marriage.

On 06/11/2018 09:55 AM, VanguardLH wrote:

[snip]

Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical
responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few
keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general
troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not
return to actually work on the issue. They are drive-by one-time
automatons puking out canned responses. Look at their replies. You
really think someone cogitated those responses on their own that outline
some general procedure that obviously doesn't address the specific
issue? It's a way to push off the customer: get them busy and maybe
they accidentally fix their own problem, so they don't come and the
response looks like it worked.

I once had a minor problem with a satellite TV service (error in online
guide) and sent a message to them about it.

They replied with some instructions on using my receiver (which had
nothing to do with the problem).

I wrote back about that and got instructions for using the website
(again, nothing to do with my problem).

Then I tried calling. The only thing they would do is reset my password
(unlikely to help, I have tried getting the guide on a different browser
on a different computer that had never been logged in, through a
different ISP and still got the problem).

I tried emailing (actually a web form) again, mentioning the prior stuff.

This time they reset my password, which was useless and required a lot
of work to get things back the way I wanted them. Problem still not solved.

A few months later, the guide problem was corrected, with NO evidence I
had anything to do with it. I wrote and said it's working now.

They messed up my account AGAIN. I wish their bots would learn to read.

This is the same company that asked how many mushrooms I had on my dish
(I know what a LNB is and it's NOT a mushroom).

This stuff is one of the bigger reasons I don't use their service
anymore. Also, I'd rather avoid dealing with customer service.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The truths which God revealed have been overthrown by the truths which
man has discovered." [Lemuel K. Washburn, _Is The Bible Worth Reading
And Other Essays_, 1911]

pyotr filipivich wrote:
VanguardLH on Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:55:03 -0500 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
Mayayana wrote:

https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/

No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very
latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block
criticism.

Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical
responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few
keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general
troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not
return to actually work on the issue.

Microsoft was in the business of selling software (now it is
renting it out). Support which does not lead to income doesn't matter
to them.
Their web based forums are just as "helpful" as their help
"function." You'd think they'd at least have a means to look up the
error codes they provide.

Nerts, I suspect that in a lot of cases "tech support" is really
just a small shell script. And not just at MS.

I really miss msnews.microsoft.com's usenet and newsgroups with its MVPs.
--
Quote of the Week: "I never kill insects. If I see ants or spiders in
the room, I pick them up and take them outside. Karma is everything."
--Holly Valance
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
| |o o| | ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and URL/link.
\ _ /
( )

"VanguardLH" wrote

| Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical
| responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few
| keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general
| troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue

I'd agree with that. It's insulting. They go in circles
with idiotic, formulaic interest:

"Can anyone tell me how to do XYZ?"

"Hi, and than you for using the Microsoft forums.
We value your input. Before I go any further, could
you confirm that what you want to know is how
to do XYZ?"

It's like some kind of Stepford nightmare.

On 06/11/2018 07:00 AM, Mayayana wrote:
https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/

No help from Microsoft staff in any help
forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office,
etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block
criticism.



Only like twice in 24 or so years of doing this have I
found them helpful.

Oh, I found a word that gets past their censors: obnoxious.
Chuckle.

On 06/11/2018 09:59 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
On 6/11/2018 7:55 AM, VanguardLH wrote [in part]:
Mayayana wrote:

https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/

No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very
latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block
criticism.

Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical
responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few
keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general
troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not
return to actually work on the issue. They are drive-by one-time
automatons puking out canned responses. Look at their replies. You
really think someone cogitated those responses on their own that outline
some general procedure that obviously doesn't address the specific
issue? It's a way to push off the customer: get them busy and maybe
they accidentally fix their own problem, so they don't come and the
response looks like it worked.

In other words, Microsoft employees address problems in the forums with
the same type of scripts that are used by many companies' customer
support call centers. If you have a problem that is not addressed in
the script, you are led very much astray.

I have experienced this with Microsoft's call center, so why would
anyone expect something different with the forums?


Oh my goodness. That explains their useless responses on the
forums. And they write you back and ask for compliments
on how well the did too!

Per VanguardLH:
Microsoft abandoned Usenet after a few years because they didn't
control Usenet

Phone companies have abandoned supplying UseNet feeds too - to save a buck, I
guess.

Everybody's trying to build their own Walled Garden and corporate suits all
over the world are sitting up late at night trying to figure out to control
the internet.

Once Net Neutrality bites the big one we'll *really* see some "Progress" in
that direction.

But here-and-now, I mark the decline of UseNet as a major loss for internet
users.
--
Pete Cresswell

T wrote:
On 06/11/2018 09:59 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
On 6/11/2018 7:55 AM, VanguardLH wrote [in part]:
Mayayana wrote:

https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/


No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very
latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block
criticism.

Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical
responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few
keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general
troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not
return to actually work on the issue. They are drive-by one-time
automatons puking out canned responses. Look at their replies. You
really think someone cogitated those responses on their own that outline
some general procedure that obviously doesn't address the specific
issue? It's a way to push off the customer: get them busy and maybe
they accidentally fix their own problem, so they don't come and the
response looks like it worked.

In other words, Microsoft employees address problems in the forums with
the same type of scripts that are used by many companies' customer
support call centers. If you have a problem that is not addressed in
the script, you are led very much astray.

I have experienced this with Microsoft's call center, so why would
anyone expect something different with the forums?


Oh my goodness. That explains their useless responses on the
forums. And they write you back and ask for compliments
on how well the did too!

When they first started doing that, those answerers didn't
even stick around to find out how anything turned out.
If there was some notion of "taking credit", it was
well hidden at first.

The Microsoft reward system is currently tuned for "evangelism",
not "answering questions". So internally, if someone promotes
a product in a successful way, they could be rewarded. It's hard
to say how many biscuits they get for answering a question.

https://wholefoodsmagazine.com/wp-co...og-696x464.jpg

Paul

On 6/11/2018 5:26 PM, Ant wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
VanguardLH on Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:55:03 -0500 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
Mayayana wrote:

https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/

No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very
latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block
criticism.

Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical
responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few
keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general
troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not
return to actually work on the issue.

Microsoft was in the business of selling software (now it is
renting it out). Support which does not lead to income doesn't matter
to them.
Their web based forums are just as "helpful" as their help
"function." You'd think they'd at least have a means to look up the
error codes they provide.

Nerts, I suspect that in a lot of cases "tech support" is really
just a small shell script. And not just at MS.

I really miss msnews.microsoft.com's usenet and newsgroups with its MVPs.

Hmm, I never spent much time on that newsgroup.
Are MVPs short for Microsoft Virtual Person(s) ?
--
==
Later...
Ron C
--

Ron C wrote:
On 6/11/2018 5:26 PM, Ant wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
VanguardLH on Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:55:03 -0500 typed in
alt.windows7.general the following:
Mayayana wrote:

https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/


No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very
latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block
criticism.

Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical
responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few
keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general
troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not
return to actually work on the issue.

Microsoft was in the business of selling software (now it is
renting it out). Support which does not lead to income doesn't matter
to them.
Their web based forums are just as "helpful" as their help
"function." You'd think they'd at least have a means to look up the
error codes they provide.

Nerts, I suspect that in a lot of cases "tech support" is
really
just a small shell script. And not just at MS.

I really miss msnews.microsoft.com's usenet and newsgroups with its
MVPs.

Hmm, I never spent much time on that newsgroup.
Are MVPs short for Microsoft Virtual Person(s) ?

There were people in the newsgroups, who actually used to "pursue"
such an MVP title, like it was an "IT Cert". It used to
"look good on your business card". Not everyone had a pecuniary interest,
and gave freely of their time without expectation of anything, but a few
were playing the angles. And vice-versa, there would be people in
the user community "sniping" at them. Some particular MVPs
had a "skill" for getting under the skin of the people
asking questions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micros...e_Professional

There was a little of everything.

At the current time, the awards system focuses on "evangelism",
rather than "helping people". This means that partners or
"bloggers" stand to be rewarded as much as "question answerers".
And it also means that a generation of former MVPs were swept out
the door, to make room for a different kind of person entirely.

While Microsoft thinks this will generate a "Guy Kawasaki"
or a Bruce Tognazzini ("Tog on Design"), I don't think
anyone really notable will come out of the Microsoft system.
It's the era that's gone (the chance to make a difference),
not the people. About all an evangelist can be today
is a "sales person", a poofed-up suit with a sports car
and set of golf clubs. And that reflects the maturity
of the business. It's no longer "two guys in a garage
building something".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_evangelist

Paul

In message , Mark Lloyd
writes:
[]
This stuff is one of the bigger reasons I don't use their service
anymore. Also, I'd rather avoid dealing with customer service.

I'd love to deal with it; however, I think it's some years since I
encountered anything which was genuinely of that description, rather
than just having that as its name. (In any company.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

[What's your guilty pleasure?] Why should you feel guilty about pleasure? -
Michel Roux Jr in Radio Times 2-8 February 2013