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Consumers' privacy concerns not backed by their actions



 
 
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  #76  
Old June 2nd 18, 05:15 AM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Snit[_2_]
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Posts: 2,027
Default Consumers' privacy concerns not backed by their actions

On 6/1/18 9:01 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Roger Blake
wrote:

A web search on "senior computer" picked it up:

https://www.mywowcomputer.com/

The thing is very overpriced for the hardware you get, but it is
exceptionally simple to use. You're basically paying for the user
interface.


it's also exceptionally dumbed down, however, the target market aren't
power users.

Kind of what like Apple does with OS-X, another company
that managed to tame Unix and make it palatable to the average person,
but you need to buy overpriced hardware to run it.


it's nothing at all like os x, nor is the hardware overpriced.

I was not going to focus on price here. If you look at price comparisons
the Mac usually compares quite well, too... the idea they are overpriced
for what you get (from an OEM) does not hold up well to evidence.

There are some caveats to that: most price comparisons are done shortly
after the Macs come out -- and that is when Apple gets the biggest
benefit in those comparisons. Also: you have less choice to leave things
OUT. If you do not want a IR sensor for a remote you are SOL. It comes
with it and you pay for it anyway (on an iMac).

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308
Ads
  #77  
Old June 2nd 18, 05:25 AM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Consumers' privacy concerns not backed by their actions

In article , Snit
wrote:


I can see some things which might be issues -- such as not being able to
install other program -- but overall I think this would be great for a
lot of the people I have worked with.


get them a chromebook or an ipad.

Have suggested both to people (though I do not know Chrome Books well
and let them know that).

I know the ChromeBook reviews well, but most of the folks I know who
have used them do not like them. Not sure why... I have not worked with
them enough to really say.


probably because they aren't familiar with them.

for common tasks (email, word processing, web browsing, etc.), they're
a very good choice. some can even run android apps.
  #78  
Old June 2nd 18, 05:36 AM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Snit[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,027
Default Consumers' privacy concerns not backed by their actions

On 6/1/18 9:25 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Snit
wrote:


I can see some things which might be issues -- such as not being able to
install other program -- but overall I think this would be great for a
lot of the people I have worked with.

get them a chromebook or an ipad.

Have suggested both to people (though I do not know Chrome Books well
and let them know that).

I know the ChromeBook reviews well, but most of the folks I know who
have used them do not like them. Not sure why... I have not worked with
them enough to really say.


probably because they aren't familiar with them.


Could be. I know my kids use them at a friend's house and hate them, but
they are used to Macs (and somewhat Windows). They have very little
exposure to Linux other than our "TV" system.

for common tasks (email, word processing, web browsing, etc.), they're
a very good choice. some can even run android apps.

I have heard that is coming...

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308
  #79  
Old June 2nd 18, 05:40 AM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Roger Blake[_2_]
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Posts: 536
Default Consumers' privacy concerns not backed by their actions

On 2018-06-02, Snit wrote:
I can see some things which might be issues -- such as not being able to
install other program -- but overall I think this would be great for a
lot of the people I have worked with.


Yes, the machine is limited, that's one of the ways they keep it simple
and reliable. It's aimed at people who have no concept of what installing
a program even means. Also, you can hook up any kind of printer you want
as long as it's an HP. (The machine comes pre-loaded with HP's HLIP
software for Linux.)

Cost is ridiculous when compared to similar-spec commodity hardware,
but as I said what you're paying for is the ease of use for people who
really have no knowledge of computers at all. I find it frustrating
to deal with since it is so locked down. However my elderly neighbor,
who is a WWII veteran to whom a computer seems like something out of
Buck Rogers, loves the thing.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  #80  
Old June 2nd 18, 05:43 AM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Snit[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,027
Default Consumers' privacy concerns not backed by their actions

On 6/1/18 9:40 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2018-06-02, Snit wrote:
I can see some things which might be issues -- such as not being able to
install other program -- but overall I think this would be great for a
lot of the people I have worked with.


Yes, the machine is limited, that's one of the ways they keep it simple
and reliable. It's aimed at people who have no concept of what installing
a program even means. Also, you can hook up any kind of printer you want
as long as it's an HP. (The machine comes pre-loaded with HP's HLIP
software for Linux.)


I get that -- though I fear they may have gone too far for many. Really
want to play with one now though.

Cost is ridiculous when compared to similar-spec commodity hardware,
but as I said what you're paying for is the ease of use for people who
really have no knowledge of computers at all. I find it frustrating
to deal with since it is so locked down. However my elderly neighbor,
who is a WWII veteran to whom a computer seems like something out of
Buck Rogers, loves the thing.


That is the target market I am sure.


--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308
  #81  
Old June 2nd 18, 07:12 AM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mike Easter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,064
Default Consumers' privacy concerns not backed by their actions

Roger Blake wrote:
Cost is ridiculous when compared to similar-spec commodity hardware,
but as I said what you're paying for is the ease of use for people who
really have no knowledge of computers at all. I find it frustrating
to deal with since it is so locked down. However my elderly neighbor,
who is a WWII veteran to whom a computer seems like something out of
Buck Rogers, loves the thing.


Another feature of the WOW which is an all-in-one design 22" touchscreen
(2G ram, 32 G SSD, wireless kb/mouse) is their 'built-in' support
situation. Free lifetime basic support and VIP support at $10/mo, which
basic support is toll free phone, email, and claims to be US based (that
may be the VIP v.) as opposed to a language barrier phone center
somewhere in the world.

The VIP support includes extras and remote access support.

--
Mike Easter
  #82  
Old June 2nd 18, 02:04 PM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 131
Default Consumers' privacy concerns not backed by their actions

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 07:12:33 +0100, Mike Easter wrote:

Roger Blake wrote:
Cost is ridiculous when compared to similar-spec commodity hardware,
but as I said what you're paying for is the ease of use for people who
really have no knowledge of computers at all. I find it frustrating
to deal with since it is so locked down. However my elderly neighbor,
who is a WWII veteran to whom a computer seems like something out of
Buck Rogers, loves the thing.


Another feature of the WOW which is an all-in-one design 22" touchscreen
(2G ram, 32 G SSD, wireless kb/mouse) is their 'built-in' support
situation. Free lifetime basic support and VIP support at $10/mo, which
basic support is toll free phone, email, and claims to be US based (that
may be the VIP v.) as opposed to a language barrier phone center
somewhere in the world.

The VIP support includes extras and remote access support.


I dunno about the US, but in the UK if I get an Indian I just say "I'd like to speak to an English person please" and they put me through to one.

--
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic -- Arthur C Clarke
  #83  
Old June 2nd 18, 02:05 PM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 131
Default Consumers' privacy concerns not backed by their actions

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 02:18:40 +0100, Roger Blake wrote:

On 2018-06-02, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Meanwhile normal people don't want to have to **** about with stuff to make it work.


Given the number of support calls I get for all the OSes that I deal with
I'd say people who don't want to do that should stick with a typewriter.
(Ever there they keys may jam up sometimes.)


When I used a typewriter, I'd be unjamming it every 5 minutes. A computer tends to **** up only every 5 weeks.

--
Having swallowed the most amount of semen ever officially recorded Michelle Monaghan had 1.7 pints (0.96 liter) of semen pumped out of her stomach in Los Angeles in July 1991.
  #84  
Old June 2nd 18, 02:08 PM posted to alt.test,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 131
Default Consumers' privacy concerns not backed by their actions

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 03:56:53 +0100, Anonymous wrote:

In article
Roger Blake wrote:

On 2018-06-02, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Er no. Windows 10 installs on any computer with any hardware and just works.


I was comparing BSD driver support to Linux, not Windows - and I have seen
machines where Windows 10 does not have built in drivers for all the hardware.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------





--
Every day more money is printed for Monopoly than the US Treasury.
  #85  
Old June 2nd 18, 02:09 PM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 131
Default Consumers' privacy concerns not backed by their actions

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 02:15:44 +0100, Roger Blake wrote:

On 2018-06-02, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Er no. Windows 10 installs on any computer with any hardware and just works.


I was comparing BSD driver support to Linux, not Windows - and I have seen
machines where Windows 10 does not have built in drivers for all the hardware.


Very rarely does that happen. Even if it does, it's enough to get it working, if not at full speed. Then you just install a batch of motherboard drivers from the manufacturer's website.

--
Every day more money is printed for Monopoly than the US Treasury.
  #86  
Old June 2nd 18, 02:15 PM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-10
ooze
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Consumers' privacy concerns not backed by their actions

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 00:25:52 +0200, Peter Köhlmann
wrote:

Melzzzzz wrote:

On 2018-06-01, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
nospam wrote:

In article , Roger Blake
wrote:

The BSDs have much to recommend them but Linux tends to have better
hardware and application support.

no it definitely does not.

Just don't bother to tell us that you can't read. Because that is way
beyond your capabilities


Good luck in booting BSDs on recent hardware



You are talking to "nospam"
In short, you are talking to heated dirt. Dumb beyond any imagination


Now that Peter the Klöwn has posted something in reference to "heated
dirt," we can say that alt.comp.os.windows-10 has received his seal of
approval.
  #87  
Old June 2nd 18, 02:28 PM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-10
ooze
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Consumers' privacy concerns not backed by their actions

On Fri, 1 Jun 2018 17:54:26 -0700, tom wrote:

Linux, to me, is basically like a used Pontiac which might actually
get you from point A to point B, but requires to be fixed on a monthly
basis.


Sounds to me like a distro problem not a kernel problem. What are you
on? Ubuntu? Try a professional distro like Devuan. I personally really
like Gentoo, however you have to know what you are doing to use Gentoo.


I've tried several distributions and while one might resolve a problem
that only exists in the other, it also comes with its own set of
problems. In the end, Linux is a very worthwhile operating system for
anyone who is looking to put some time into learning it but for anyone
who wants to just get going, chances are that Windows and Mac OS will
do a better job.

However, I have to say this. If a computer user had never used any of
the three operating systems, I'd say that they would find Linux a lot
easier to learn to maintain. It would also be a lot easier to find the
software that you need to do your work in Linux because of the fact
that most distributions come with a decent "store" to find
applications for every need. That's not to say that the software is as
good as what you would find on the Mac or in Windows, but at least a
person looking for a word processor or a PDF reader would be able to
quickly find one if either is not already bundled with the software.
In the case of Windows, a user would need to know to go on the web to
find one and then he'd have to learn to differentiate from malware and
the real deal. In the case of the Mac, chances are that he would find
what he needs in the store, but like in Windows he'd have to learn how
to differentiate between real software and software which is
essentially useless until you pay for it.

For actual maintenance, a new Windows user would have absolutely no
idea how to fix any issue unless it's with Metro apps that allow him
to reset the app. Registries. hidden folders and the like are probably
beyond the comprehension of a new user. Similarly, on the Mac, a user
would probably not have any idea what the heck permissions are and why
they would need to be fixed.
  #88  
Old June 2nd 18, 06:18 PM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mike Easter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,064
Default Consumers' privacy concerns not backed by their actions

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
Roger Blake wrote:
Cost is ridiculous when compared to similar-spec commodity hardware,
but as I said what you're paying for is the ease of use for people who
really have no knowledge of computers at all. I find it frustrating
to deal with since it is so locked down. However my elderly neighbor,
who is a WWII veteran to whom a computer seems like something out of
Buck Rogers, loves the thing.


Another feature of the WOW which is an all-in-one design 22" touchscreen
(2G ram, 32 G SSD, wireless kb/mouse) is their 'built-in' support
situation.Â* Free lifetime basic support and VIP support at $10/mo, which
basic support is toll free phone, email, and claims to be US based (that
may be the VIP v.)Â* as opposed to a language barrier phone center
somewhere in the world.

The VIP support includes extras and remote access support.


I dunno about the US, but in the UK if I get an Indian I just say "I'd
like to speak to an English person please" and they put me through to one.


The business of being able to provide sufficient quality telephone
support is typically a very costly and difficult undertaking. The
typical scenario is that it is farmed out to call centers somewhere the
support hourly wage is more affordable, such as India or the Philippines.

This target marketed audience of seniors, particularly those who would
choose to buy such a WOW computer, would seem to me to be a particularly
difficult one. "I don't know anything about computers and my faculties
are somewhat impaired as I can't see very well (or hear very well, or
remember very well, or handle a mouse very well)."

It is interesting that the WOW people decided to build their interface
on the Tiny Core Linux base and other open source ware. It seems that
the hardware is very minimal except for what is spent on that 22"
touchscreen, so the dollar distribution would be hardware-wise
principally that monitor touchscreen and then the tech support.

I'm sure they would 'immediately' upgrade the users who needed more
support to the $10/mo VIP (1st 30 d. free VIP), but that is still pretty
cheap price. Being able to give remote support helps a lot, but that
requires functional connectivity and hardware performance. If one of
those weren't operating properly, I think the customer would need some
kind of outside support.

The reviews on Amazon were more negative than positive. There were
worthwhile comments there from IT people who made suggestions about
alternate ways to provide much better hardware, but I didn't find those
suggestions satisfactory about how to achieve a 'foolproof' interface.
There's the nut in this venture.


--
Mike Easter
  #89  
Old June 2nd 18, 06:28 PM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 131
Default Consumers' privacy concerns not backed by their actions

On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 18:18:45 +0100, Mike Easter wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
Roger Blake wrote:
Cost is ridiculous when compared to similar-spec commodity hardware,
but as I said what you're paying for is the ease of use for people who
really have no knowledge of computers at all. I find it frustrating
to deal with since it is so locked down. However my elderly neighbor,
who is a WWII veteran to whom a computer seems like something out of
Buck Rogers, loves the thing.

Another feature of the WOW which is an all-in-one design 22" touchscreen
(2G ram, 32 G SSD, wireless kb/mouse) is their 'built-in' support
situation. Free lifetime basic support and VIP support at $10/mo, which
basic support is toll free phone, email, and claims to be US based (that
may be the VIP v.) as opposed to a language barrier phone center
somewhere in the world.

The VIP support includes extras and remote access support.


I dunno about the US, but in the UK if I get an Indian I just say "I'd
like to speak to an English person please" and they put me through to one.


The business of being able to provide sufficient quality telephone
support is typically a very costly and difficult undertaking. The
typical scenario is that it is farmed out to call centers somewhere the
support hourly wage is more affordable, such as India or the Philippines.


Which is why minimum wage is a stupid idea, it just means other countries get all our work.

This target marketed audience of seniors, particularly those who would
choose to buy such a WOW computer, would seem to me to be a particularly
difficult one. "I don't know anything about computers and my faculties
are somewhat impaired as I can't see very well (or hear very well, or
remember very well, or handle a mouse very well)."

It is interesting that the WOW people decided to build their interface
on the Tiny Core Linux base and other open source ware. It seems that
the hardware is very minimal except for what is spent on that 22"
touchscreen, so the dollar distribution would be hardware-wise
principally that monitor touchscreen and then the tech support.

I'm sure they would 'immediately' upgrade the users who needed more
support to the $10/mo VIP (1st 30 d. free VIP), but that is still pretty
cheap price. Being able to give remote support helps a lot, but that
requires functional connectivity and hardware performance. If one of
those weren't operating properly, I think the customer would need some
kind of outside support.


I was once asked to fax a copy of a receipt to a company when the fax/modem I bought from them wasn't working. He realised his mistake when I burst out laughing.

The reviews on Amazon were more negative than positive.


You managed to find Amazon's review system? I hate Amazon, it's about 10 times harder to use than Ebay. First annoying thing, the postage ain't shown in the search results. So I can't see who's the cheapest. Amazon, you lose.

There were
worthwhile comments there from IT people who made suggestions about
alternate ways to provide much better hardware, but I didn't find those
suggestions satisfactory about how to achieve a 'foolproof' interface.
There's the nut in this venture.


--
Can fat people go skinny-dipping?
  #90  
Old June 2nd 18, 06:54 PM posted to alt.privacy.anon-server,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Snit[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,027
Default Consumers' privacy concerns not backed by their actions

On 6/2/18 10:28 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 18:18:45 +0100, Mike Easter wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
Roger Blake wrote:
Cost is ridiculous when compared to similar-spec commodity hardware,
but as I said what you're paying for is the ease of use for people who
really have no knowledge of computers at all. I find it frustrating
to deal with since it is so locked down. However my elderly neighbor,
who is a WWII veteran to whom a computer seems like something out of
Buck Rogers, loves the thing.

Another feature of the WOW which is an all-in-one design 22"
touchscreen
(2G ram, 32 G SSD, wireless kb/mouse) is their 'built-in' support
situation.* Free lifetime basic support and VIP support at $10/mo,
which
basic support is toll free phone, email, and claims to be US based
(that
may be the VIP v.)* as opposed to a language barrier phone center
somewhere in the world.

The VIP support includes extras and remote access support.

I dunno about the US, but in the UK if I get an Indian I just say "I'd
like to speak to an English person please" and they put me through to
one.


The business of being able to provide sufficient quality telephone
support is typically a very costly and difficult undertaking.* The
typical scenario is that it is farmed out to call centers somewhere the
support hourly wage is more affordable, such as India or the Philippines.


Which is why minimum wage is a stupid idea, it just means other
countries get all our work.


Do you have other ideas to reduce socializing the cost of labor? Right
now, for example, many if not most of Walmart and McDonald's workers get
part of their income from the government -- socializing the cost of
labor for these businesses.

The general reply to this is to respond with microeconomics thinking:
these people should get other work if they want more money, but this
ignores the reality that these are the two largest employers in the
country. Looking at the macroeconomic situation, these corporations and
many others get socialized support for their labor costs.

....

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308
 




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