If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Best networking books on mixed Windows environments?
I'm continually working on mixed Windows networks.
In all this time I've not found good descriptions of how all the pieces fit together, work together. For example: What happens if TCP/IP, NetBEUI and IPX are all installed on all computers? Are there protocol priorities for doing one task or another? etc. Some say to use all 3, others insist that TCP/IP is enough and others insist there is a proper mix for security purposes. Why does installing NetBEUI on one 98SE computer cause XP computers that don't have NetBEUI to disappear from view - even though they could see each other before installing NetBEUI on the 98SE or ME machine? How do Microsoft Family Logon and Client for Microsoft Networks differ? (I have seen both of them separately recommended to be used in order for a network to be reliable). What can be done to force or improve the time it takes to display the actual Workgroup computers after a change has been made? Oh, I've found pieces on the web. But, how about good books on Windows networking? I didn't see anything on amazon.com that sounded like what I'm looking for. Either the books were high-level networking books that don't talk about these Windows specifics and interactions (I already have books like that) or, they were about a single Windows OS and were too low-level to get into this kind of detail (and I already have books like that also). Thanks, Fred |
Ads |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Best networking books on mixed Windows environments?
In article , Fred Marshall
writes But, how about good books on Windows networking? A book wouldn't be any good. The problems mutate daily, it seems, and Win XP SP 2 seems like a mass extinction. (;-) Your resources are limited to mailgroups and the Internet. Nothing else can react fast enough. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. The good news is that nothing is compulsory. The bad news is that everything is prohibited. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Best networking books on mixed Windows environments?
John,
Thanks for the reply. Yabbut how about the stuff that's long-lived, that's been around for a long time, etc.? I guess I should trust my own research, eh? I didn't find anything - thus my question here. For that matter then, how about the example questions I asked? They were real enough. Fred "John Woodgate" wrote in message news In article , Fred Marshall writes But, how about good books on Windows networking? A book wouldn't be any good. The problems mutate daily, it seems, and Win XP SP 2 seems like a mass extinction. (;-) Your resources are limited to mailgroups and the Internet. Nothing else can react fast enough. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. The good news is that nothing is compulsory. The bad news is that everything is prohibited. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Best networking books on mixed Windows environments?
In article , "Fred Marshall"
wrote: I'm continually working on mixed Windows networks. In all this time I've not found good descriptions of how all the pieces fit together, work together. Hi, Fred. I know what you mean: there's a lot of networking information available, but much of it is fragmented, and much of it is just plain wrong. I've seen more misinformation about networking than about any other area of Windows -- so much that I've written a web page about it: Windows Networking Myths http://www.bcmaven.com/networking/myths.htm For example: What happens if TCP/IP, NetBEUI and IPX are all installed on all computers? Are there protocol priorities for doing one task or another? etc. Some say to use all 3, others insist that TCP/IP is enough and others insist there is a proper mix for security purposes. All three protocols support file sharing. Some networked games require TCP/IP or IPX. Only TCP/IP supports Internet access. Nothing in Windows networking has ever required NetBEUI. NetBEUI was the default protocol in Windows 95, but TCP/IP has been the default protocol since Windows 98. Even in Windows 95, you can un-install NetBEUI and use a different protocol. Microsoft wouldn't have dropped support for NetBEUI in Windows XP if anything required it. It's possible, but rarely useful, to use TCP/IP for Internet and one of the others for file sharing. Using more than one protocol for file sharing can cause browsing problems and make the network unreliable, especially when XP is involved. Unless there's a specific need for them, remove NetBEUI and IPX from all computers and use only TCP/IP. If the network needs more than one protocol (e.g. TCP/IP for Internet access and IPX/SPX for networked games), choose one protocol for file sharing and un-bind sharing from the other(s). I've written a web page with details: Windows XP Network Protocols http://www.practicallynetworked.com/..._protocols.htm I've seen networking web sites and even NIC installation instructions from network equipment manufacturers say to use all three, but my experience shows it to be a bad idea. I've never seen multiple protocols for file sharing recommended in any document from Microsoft. Why does installing NetBEUI on one 98SE computer cause XP computers that don't have NetBEUI to disappear from view - even though they could see each other before installing NetBEUI on the 98SE or ME machine? Using more than one protocol, even on a single computer, can cause browsing problems and make the network unreliable, especially when XP is involved. It causes redundant network broadcasts and disrupts the browse list that the network's master browser maintains. How do Microsoft Family Logon and Client for Microsoft Networks differ? (I have seen both of them separately recommended to be used in order for a network to be reliable). Microsoft Family Logon has nothing to do with file sharing and is never necessary. Installing it does two things: 1. Enables Win 9x computers to save DUN passwords if Client for Microsoft Networks isn't installed. 2. If you set the primary network logon to Microsoft Family Logon, it presents a menu of known user names at startup time and asks you to select one. You must install Client for Microsoft Networks to allow a computer to see other computers on the network. However, it doesn't have to be the primary network logon -- Windows Logon, Client for Microsoft Networks, Microsoft Family Logon are all OK as the primary network logon. What can be done to force or improve the time it takes to display the actual Workgroup computers after a change has been made? Because of the way that Microsoft implemented network browsing, it often takes up to 15 minutes for a computer to appear on the network after it starts up. I don't know of any way to speed that up. To access a computer directly, before it appears in Network Neighborhood or My Network Places, type its name in the Start | Run box in this format: \\computer Oh, I've found pieces on the web. But, how about good books on Windows networking? I didn't see anything on amazon.com that sounded like what I'm looking for. Either the books were high-level networking books that don't talk about these Windows specifics and interactions (I already have books like that) or, they were about a single Windows OS and were too low-level to get into this kind of detail (and I already have books like that also). I'm sorry, but I don't know of any good books. Thanks, Fred -- Best Wishes, Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking) Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups. Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program http://mvp.support.microsoft.com |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Best networking books on mixed Windows environments?
Steve,
Thanks for a great reply! Fred "Steve Winograd [MVP]" wrote in message ... In article , "Fred Marshall" wrote: I'm continually working on mixed Windows networks. In all this time I've not found good descriptions of how all the pieces fit together, work together. Hi, Fred. I know what you mean: there's a lot of networking information available, but much of it is fragmented, and much of it is just plain wrong. I've seen more misinformation about networking than about any other area of Windows -- so much that I've written a web page about it: Windows Networking Myths http://www.bcmaven.com/networking/myths.htm For example: What happens if TCP/IP, NetBEUI and IPX are all installed on all computers? Are there protocol priorities for doing one task or another? etc. Some say to use all 3, others insist that TCP/IP is enough and others insist there is a proper mix for security purposes. All three protocols support file sharing. Some networked games require TCP/IP or IPX. Only TCP/IP supports Internet access. Nothing in Windows networking has ever required NetBEUI. NetBEUI was the default protocol in Windows 95, but TCP/IP has been the default protocol since Windows 98. Even in Windows 95, you can un-install NetBEUI and use a different protocol. Microsoft wouldn't have dropped support for NetBEUI in Windows XP if anything required it. It's possible, but rarely useful, to use TCP/IP for Internet and one of the others for file sharing. Using more than one protocol for file sharing can cause browsing problems and make the network unreliable, especially when XP is involved. Unless there's a specific need for them, remove NetBEUI and IPX from all computers and use only TCP/IP. If the network needs more than one protocol (e.g. TCP/IP for Internet access and IPX/SPX for networked games), choose one protocol for file sharing and un-bind sharing from the other(s). I've written a web page with details: Windows XP Network Protocols http://www.practicallynetworked.com/..._protocols.htm I've seen networking web sites and even NIC installation instructions from network equipment manufacturers say to use all three, but my experience shows it to be a bad idea. I've never seen multiple protocols for file sharing recommended in any document from Microsoft. Why does installing NetBEUI on one 98SE computer cause XP computers that don't have NetBEUI to disappear from view - even though they could see each other before installing NetBEUI on the 98SE or ME machine? Using more than one protocol, even on a single computer, can cause browsing problems and make the network unreliable, especially when XP is involved. It causes redundant network broadcasts and disrupts the browse list that the network's master browser maintains. How do Microsoft Family Logon and Client for Microsoft Networks differ? (I have seen both of them separately recommended to be used in order for a network to be reliable). Microsoft Family Logon has nothing to do with file sharing and is never necessary. Installing it does two things: 1. Enables Win 9x computers to save DUN passwords if Client for Microsoft Networks isn't installed. 2. If you set the primary network logon to Microsoft Family Logon, it presents a menu of known user names at startup time and asks you to select one. You must install Client for Microsoft Networks to allow a computer to see other computers on the network. However, it doesn't have to be the primary network logon -- Windows Logon, Client for Microsoft Networks, Microsoft Family Logon are all OK as the primary network logon. What can be done to force or improve the time it takes to display the actual Workgroup computers after a change has been made? Because of the way that Microsoft implemented network browsing, it often takes up to 15 minutes for a computer to appear on the network after it starts up. I don't know of any way to speed that up. To access a computer directly, before it appears in Network Neighborhood or My Network Places, type its name in the Start | Run box in this format: \\computer Oh, I've found pieces on the web. But, how about good books on Windows networking? I didn't see anything on amazon.com that sounded like what I'm looking for. Either the books were high-level networking books that don't talk about these Windows specifics and interactions (I already have books like that) or, they were about a single Windows OS and were too low-level to get into this kind of detail (and I already have books like that also). I'm sorry, but I don't know of any good books. Thanks, Fred -- Best Wishes, Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking) Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups. Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program http://mvp.support.microsoft.com |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Best networking books on mixed Windows environments?
"Steve Winograd [MVP]" wrote in message ... In article , "Fred Marshall" wrote: I'm continually working on mixed Windows networks. In all this time I've not found good descriptions of how all the pieces fit together, work together. Hi, Fred. I know what you mean: there's a lot of networking information available, but much of it is fragmented, and much of it is just plain wrong. I've seen more misinformation about networking than about any other area of Windows -- so much that I've written a web page about it: Steve, Thanks again! I had one case where an existing network with WFW3.1 and WinNT4sp6 and ME were networked. All had TCP/IP and NetBEUI. Added an XP Home machine. XP couldn't see the network until NetBEUI was added.... ? In view of that experience, it seems like an expedient to just add NetBEUI. Because I couldn't make it work until I did that. So, now what am I motivated to do in the field in order to save on-site time ..... ? Or, how might I have avoided that situation without adding NetBEUI to the XP macine? By your comments, I'm motivated to try using just TCP/IP ..... Fred |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Best networking books on mixed Windows environments?
In article , "Fred Marshall"
wrote: "Steve Winograd [MVP]" wrote in message .. . In article , "Fred Marshall" wrote: I'm continually working on mixed Windows networks. In all this time I've not found good descriptions of how all the pieces fit together, work together. Hi, Fred. I know what you mean: there's a lot of networking information available, but much of it is fragmented, and much of it is just plain wrong. I've seen more misinformation about networking than about any other area of Windows -- so much that I've written a web page about it: Windows Networking Myths http://www.bcmaven.com/networking/myths.htm What happens if TCP/IP, NetBEUI and IPX are all installed on all computers? Are there protocol priorities for doing one task or another? etc. Some say to use all 3, others insist that TCP/IP is enough and others insist there is a proper mix for security purposes. All three protocols support file sharing. Some networked games require TCP/IP or IPX. Only TCP/IP supports Internet access. Nothing in Windows networking has ever required NetBEUI. NetBEUI was the default protocol in Windows 95, but TCP/IP has been the default protocol since Windows 98. Even in Windows 95, you can un-install NetBEUI and use a different protocol. Microsoft wouldn't have dropped support for NetBEUI in Windows XP if anything required it. It's possible, but rarely useful, to use TCP/IP for Internet and one of the others for file sharing. Using more than one protocol for file sharing can cause browsing problems and make the network unreliable, especially when XP is involved. Unless there's a specific need for them, remove NetBEUI and IPX from all computers and use only TCP/IP. If the network needs more than one protocol (e.g. TCP/IP for Internet access and IPX/SPX for networked games), choose one protocol for file sharing and un-bind sharing from the other(s). I've written a web page with details: Windows XP Network Protocols http://www.practicallynetworked.com/..._protocols.htm Steve, Thanks again! I had one case where an existing network with WFW3.1 and WinNT4sp6 and ME were networked. All had TCP/IP and NetBEUI. Added an XP Home machine. XP couldn't see the network until NetBEUI was added.... ? In view of that experience, it seems like an expedient to just add NetBEUI. Because I couldn't make it work until I did that. So, now what am I motivated to do in the field in order to save on-site time ..... ? Or, how might I have avoided that situation without adding NetBEUI to the XP macine? By your comments, I'm motivated to try using just TCP/IP ..... Fred You're welcome, Fred. Early versions of WFW didn't include TCP/IP. Some computers used a third-party product called Trumpet Winsock. Microsoft eventually released its own TCP/IP product, which is still available for download. I've used it successfully on WFW 3.11 (released 11/1/93), but I don't remember whether it works on WFW 3.1 (released 10/1/92): How to Obtain TCP/IP-32 3.11b for Windows for Workgroups http://support.microsoft.com/?id=99891 They key to Windows networking is to use the same protocol for file sharing on all computers. It's possible that the network that you saw had un-bound file sharing from TCP/IP and bound it only to NetBEUI. It's also possible that there was something wrong with the TCP/IP configuration. Certainly, it was expedient to add NetBEUI to XP to get things working. All versions of Windows, even as far back as WFW 3.11, can use TCP/IP as the only protocol. If you and the client have the time available, I recommend getting that to work on that network, especially if you'll be adding more XP computers. -- Best Wishes, Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking) Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups. Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program http://mvp.support.microsoft.com |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Best networking books on mixed Windows environments?
oops! I should have said WFW 3.11 and it does have TCP/IP.
"Steve Winograd [MVP]" wrote in message ... In article , "Fred Marshall" wrote: "Steve Winograd [MVP]" wrote in message .. . In article , "Fred Marshall" wrote: I'm continually working on mixed Windows networks. In all this time I've not found good descriptions of how all the pieces fit together, work together. Hi, Fred. I know what you mean: there's a lot of networking information available, but much of it is fragmented, and much of it is just plain wrong. I've seen more misinformation about networking than about any other area of Windows -- so much that I've written a web page about it: Windows Networking Myths http://www.bcmaven.com/networking/myths.htm What happens if TCP/IP, NetBEUI and IPX are all installed on all computers? Are there protocol priorities for doing one task or another? etc. Some say to use all 3, others insist that TCP/IP is enough and others insist there is a proper mix for security purposes. All three protocols support file sharing. Some networked games require TCP/IP or IPX. Only TCP/IP supports Internet access. Nothing in Windows networking has ever required NetBEUI. NetBEUI was the default protocol in Windows 95, but TCP/IP has been the default protocol since Windows 98. Even in Windows 95, you can un-install NetBEUI and use a different protocol. Microsoft wouldn't have dropped support for NetBEUI in Windows XP if anything required it. It's possible, but rarely useful, to use TCP/IP for Internet and one of the others for file sharing. Using more than one protocol for file sharing can cause browsing problems and make the network unreliable, especially when XP is involved. Unless there's a specific need for them, remove NetBEUI and IPX from all computers and use only TCP/IP. If the network needs more than one protocol (e.g. TCP/IP for Internet access and IPX/SPX for networked games), choose one protocol for file sharing and un-bind sharing from the other(s). I've written a web page with details: Windows XP Network Protocols http://www.practicallynetworked.com/..._protocols.htm Steve, Thanks again! I had one case where an existing network with WFW3.1 and WinNT4sp6 and ME were networked. All had TCP/IP and NetBEUI. Added an XP Home machine. XP couldn't see the network until NetBEUI was added.... ? In view of that experience, it seems like an expedient to just add NetBEUI. Because I couldn't make it work until I did that. So, now what am I motivated to do in the field in order to save on-site time ..... ? Or, how might I have avoided that situation without adding NetBEUI to the XP macine? By your comments, I'm motivated to try using just TCP/IP ..... Fred You're welcome, Fred. Early versions of WFW didn't include TCP/IP. Some computers used a third-party product called Trumpet Winsock. Microsoft eventually released its own TCP/IP product, which is still available for download. I've used it successfully on WFW 3.11 (released 11/1/93), but I don't remember whether it works on WFW 3.1 (released 10/1/92): How to Obtain TCP/IP-32 3.11b for Windows for Workgroups http://support.microsoft.com/?id=99891 They key to Windows networking is to use the same protocol for file sharing on all computers. It's possible that the network that you saw had un-bound file sharing from TCP/IP and bound it only to NetBEUI. It's also possible that there was something wrong with the TCP/IP configuration. Certainly, it was expedient to add NetBEUI to XP to get things working. All versions of Windows, even as far back as WFW 3.11, can use TCP/IP as the only protocol. If you and the client have the time available, I recommend getting that to work on that network, especially if you'll be adding more XP computers. -- Best Wishes, Steve Winograd, MS-MVP (Windows Networking) Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for everyone to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to me in E-mail or news groups. Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program http://mvp.support.microsoft.com |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
2 home computers XP Pro on comp. and Home Ed. on other? | Tiger | General XP issues or comments | 5 | October 2nd 05 01:17 AM |
WUP fials to update XP HighMAT | David Beardmore | The Basics | 0 | July 31st 04 05:22 PM |
Microsoft Windows Network & Web Client Network - somebody connected to my computer? | Patrick Briggs | Security and Administration with Windows XP | 3 | July 30th 04 04:01 PM |
2 home computers XP Pro on comp. and Home Ed. on other? | Tiger | General XP issues or comments | 4 | July 25th 04 12:06 PM |
2 home computers XP Pro on comp. and Home Ed. on other? | Tiger | General XP issues or comments | 4 | July 24th 04 06:16 AM |