more error in F8.1U1

On Wed, 21 May 2014 08:56:53 -0400, knuttle
posted ):

On 5/21/2014 8:49 AM, Silver Slimer wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014 07:36:02 -0400, Keith Nuttle
posted ):

On 5/21/2014 1:47 AM, Paul wrote:
Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 5/20/2014 9:29 PM, Paul wrote:
Remember that Microsoft is only interested in "cosmetics". Your
problem just doesn't fit the cosmetic mould. Your changes wouldn't
sell any additional computers.
And would be ignored, like my concern that the Task Manager just
doesn't work properly.

Have you taken note of which programs make a fuss ?

Are they all Metro, or desktop ones ?

Paul

Two Micro soft games Mahjong and Solitaire and something that is
there frequently that I can not identify. I only work from the
desktop except for the two games, and as has been my practice of
about 20 years, all programs are closed before I shut down the
computer

Just for kicks, try closing the two Metro programs with alt-F4 when
the Metro program has the focus. Then try shutting down.

Paul

I have tried alt F4 before, but tried it again this morning with
Mahjong, While it got me out of the program and back to the start
menu,
the program was still running in the Task Manager.

I have posted a similar question before and seen similar post, I have
followed all of the suggestions, and never found a simple way to shut
down a Metro program.

I think that by design, they weren't meant to be completely shut down.
They simply remain in memory, using next to nothing since you're not in
the application, and come back to life once they're needed. It's not a
bad approach for anyone who, for instance, is playing a game of
Mahjongg,
needs to close the program to catch a train or something and then
restores the program, expecting to be at the same place as he left off
when he next starts the application. It's even more beneficial for
users of productivity programs.

So you are saying it is an MS bug that has become a feature

Not necessarily an intentional one. Tell yourself that I am not a big fan
of Windows in general, in particular the Modern interface.

--
Silver Slimer
OpenMedia & Ubuntu Supporter
www.silverlips.ca

On Tue, 20 May 2014 19:06:09 -0400, knuttle wrote:

On 5/20/2014 6:07 PM, Paul wrote:
Alias wrote:



The "Mail" application in this example, is a Metro application.
Note the Start menu on the left. The Start menu can be customized,
and at least some Tiles can be added or removed. No picture was
provided with all the Tiles removed. That would free up too
much real estate.

http://thedigitallifestyle.com/w/wp-...E6977C21 .jpg


Paul

I hope in U2 they make it so you can stop Metro applications They made
a big deal about adding back the X to the Metro application window. In
a Metro window the X functions like the -- the closed window but left
the program running.

I am tired of every time I try to close my computer, having the OS tell
me there are still programs running when I have closed all open windows
on the desktop.

I had a more relevant thought, after reading the replies to and from you
in this subthread.

I believe (mostly based on remarks in this NG) that W8 prefers to
hibernate rather than shutdown, so I wonder if you have configured it to
really shut down, thereby have causing those messages.

I say "causing" not to imply blame, but as part of an attempt to figure
out what W8 might be thinking...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

Nil wrote:
On 21 May 2014, knuttle wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

So you are saying it is an MS bug that has become a feature

Of course not. That's the design, and it makes sense. There's no need
to have to explicitly close certain types of programs when not in use
as long as they don't tie up resources that are needed elsewhere.
That's they way Android works.

That said, it's not right that Windows would complain about those open
programs when the OS is shut down. That would be a bug or a poorly
implemented feature.

I guess this means I'll have to go back and test.

I thought the last time I tested that, there was nothing
visible afterwards.

Perhaps a copy of Process Explorer sees the processes in question ?

I'd be curious as to how they were listed, in terms of state.
(Unix used to have the concept of a "zombie" state, for processes
that were dead, but not harvested by INIT.)

Years ago, there were terminate and stay resident things. In
Unix, you could set the T bit, so that the next time a process
was forked, some part of what was running before could be
used (so perhaps, you didn't have to load the executable off
a disk). It was an attempt at optimization, for scripting,
where the same process is launched thousands of times sequentially.

There's got to be some explanation for the state they're in. We
understand why it was done - for the use case where a user goes
back to the same Metro screen, five minutes after they closed one.
The use case is not quite the same as scripting in Unix,
where a program is used once a second, five thousand times in a
row. Such an optimization in that case makes sense, because
of the reduced launch time component.

Paul

Keith Nuttle wrote, On 5/20/2014 10:33 PM:
On 5/20/2014 9:29 PM, Paul wrote:
Remember that Microsoft is only interested in "cosmetics".
Your problem just doesn't fit the cosmetic mould. Your
changes wouldn't sell any additional computers.
And would be ignored, like my concern that the Task Manager
just doesn't work properly.

Have you taken note of which programs make a fuss ?

Are they all Metro, or desktop ones ?

Paul

Two Micro soft games Mahjong and Solitaire and something that is there
frequently that I can not identify. I only work from the desktop except
for the two games, and as has been my practice of about 20 years, all
programs are closed before I shut down the computer

Drag the open app from the top to the bottom of the screen, wait for it
to app window to change to the tile icon then drag off the screen.


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

Paul wrote:
Nil wrote:
On 21 May 2014, knuttle wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:
So you are saying it is an MS bug that has become a feature

Of course not. That's the design, and it makes sense. There's no need
to have to explicitly close certain types of programs when not in use
as long as they don't tie up resources that are needed elsewhere.
That's they way Android works.

That said, it's not right that Windows would complain about those open
programs when the OS is shut down. That would be a bug or a poorly
implemented feature.

I guess this means I'll have to go back and test.


OK, I did a quick check, without trying to get too fancy.

If I open the Sports tile into a Metro Window, then
flip back to Process Explorer, I can see a

wwahost suspended

It switches to suspended mode, moments after I navigate
back to the desktop.

After a couple of back and forths, the Sports tile gets
a bit more bold, and downloads a bit of content. A picture of
a couple basketball players. If I flip back to Process
Explorer, in addition I can see

runtimebroker
thumbnailextract

The wwahost eventually returns to suspended.

Now, if I alt-F4 while in the Sports Tile, then
check the Process Explorer, the wwahost exits and
is no longer running. The Runtimebroker continues
to run, implying it is a time limited service.
After a number of seconds, it exits. The thumbnail
thing goes away rather quickly in any case (after
making a thumbnail of the two basketball players).

I would maintain that alt-F4 in Win8.1 U1 x64 is
the way to stop a Metro program. Go to Process
Explorer, and have a look to verify the cruft
associated with Metro tiles, has also exited.
It's possible there is still some Tile running,
like perhaps doing background downloads or something.
Extra pictures of basketball players or something.

Process Explorer
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/s...rnals/bb896653

Paul