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O.T. Cleaning computer



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 30th 18, 01:00 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

What are your thoughts about cleaning
the inside of computers with anti-static
brushes, compressed air, vacuum?

I've always been leery about brushing the
motherboard etc because it seems so delicate.

Thoughts?

Robert
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  #2  
Old November 30th 18, 01:09 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
default[_2_]
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Posts: 201
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 04:00:23 -0800 (PST), Mark Twain
wrote:

What are your thoughts about cleaning
the inside of computers with anti-static
brushes, compressed air, vacuum?

I've always been leery about brushing the
motherboard etc because it seems so delicate.

Thoughts?

Robert


I've never given it a thought or had any problems.

Once a year I haul the desktop outside and hit all the nooks and
crannies with compressed air (and then let it sit for a day to allow
any entrained water evaporate - I don't have a dryer on my air
compressor - but if you use a aerosol product you may still get
condensate (water) to form on parts since that stuff is cold coming
out of the can, and if the dew-point and temperature cross paths...)

If I have it open for things like component tinkering, I use a paint
brush and a vacuum cleaner to slurp up the gradoo. (old TV servicing
trick)

If you are worried about static damage, the single most important
thing you can do is avoid touching a charged body (presumably your
body) to a component without first touching the grounded case of the
computer to equalize the charges.

And not recommended for components, but very effective, a strip of
something like masking tape can be useful in picking up dust from
things like ventilation holes in the case.

I'm an electrical engineer so things like static equalization is
second nature when I get my hands on CMOS devices, but I don't spend
money for specific tools that are supposed to be "static-safe" because
the tools matter a lot less than good technique.
  #3  
Old November 30th 18, 01:34 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
default[_2_]
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Posts: 201
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 14:01:26 +0100, "R.Wieser"
wrote:

Mark,

What are your thoughts about cleaning
the inside of computers with anti-static
brushes, compressed air, vacuum?


My personal favorite is using a vacuum, simply because that has the least
chance of pushing dirt into tight spots where you can't get at it anymore.

I've always been leery about brushing the
motherboard etc because it seems so delicate.


I would not want to suggest to use brillo (steel wool) or a horse brush, but
there is nothing wrong with using a feather brush (plumeau) on a
motherboard. Or even a (clean! :-) ) paintbrush (as I sometimes use for
"stubborn" dirt).

It might *seem* very delicate ('cause the components are often very small),
but you might be amazed about the ammount of force needed to get one off or
break it.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


I use water (clean de ionized) and a tooth brush for those hard to
remove laundry stains. The thing has to be off and the BIOS battery
has to be removed and the caps discharged. The technique works very
well on electronic components providing you keep it away from things
like unsealed switches, relays, motors, potentiometers, connectors and
the like and give it plenty of time to dry in a warm oven or vacuum
oven if you have access to one.

It must be dried soon after it is washed and connectors take a long
time to dry. Dry soon after wash is necessary because dissimilar
metals can form electrical potentials in electrolyte solutions.

It is the only technique that works for things like insect poop which
can be found on things like circuit boards for outdoor equipment and
salt spray on marine equipment. Things like the drive circuits for AC
compressors with variable speed drive? That stuff (insect gradoo) is
hygroscopic semi-conductive and with surface mount components and
close lead spacing, can cause problems during times of high humidity.

Water with dish detergent is great for cleaning, but you do have to
develop some techniques to use it safely and effectively. You can't
just spray it in a device, but have to take out the boards out and
then pay attention to drying before applying power or batteries again.
  #4  
Old November 30th 18, 02:01 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
R.Wieser
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Posts: 1,302
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

Mark,

What are your thoughts about cleaning
the inside of computers with anti-static
brushes, compressed air, vacuum?


My personal favorite is using a vacuum, simply because that has the least
chance of pushing dirt into tight spots where you can't get at it anymore.

I've always been leery about brushing the
motherboard etc because it seems so delicate.


I would not want to suggest to use brillo (steel wool) or a horse brush, but
there is nothing wrong with using a feather brush (plumeau) on a
motherboard. Or even a (clean! :-) ) paintbrush (as I sometimes use for
"stubborn" dirt).

It might *seem* very delicate ('cause the components are often very small),
but you might be amazed about the ammount of force needed to get one off or
break it.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser



  #5  
Old November 30th 18, 02:16 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

Mark Twain wrote:
What are your thoughts about cleaning
the inside of computers with anti-static
brushes, compressed air, vacuum?

I've always been leery about brushing the
motherboard etc because it seems so delicate.

Thoughts?

Robert


Static electricity is generated by dust-filled
air moving past other items. Whether the airflow
is with positive pressure (compressor), or with
negative pressure (vacuum cleaner), there is the
possibility of generating static electricity.

If your tooling scrapes across the surface
of a motherboard, it can knock off SMT capacitors
and resistors. That's not good. While bypass caps
(like the broadside caps under the CPU), a lot of
those can be knocked off, the caps used for AC
coupling PCIe lanes, losing those ruins functionality.

Your main enemy would be the notion of "scrupulous
cleaning". Trying to get every last bit of dust.

Gently blow out the "excess" of dust in the case
and call it a day. The dust will come back, unless
you've made major changes to airflow conditions
or something. It's not worth "scrubbing" stuff,
only to have the dust come back five minutes
from now.

To give you an example of what can happen, I took
a cleaning cloth, moistened with isopropyl, to clean
the fan blade on the CPU cooler. I pulled a little too
hard on the hub, and some "spring" on the hub of
the Coolermaster fan was moved out of place. The
fan was ruined, as I couldn't get it to go back.
I had to replace the fan with a Vantec Stealth
that was the same size.

I do clean dust out of heatsink fins. As you can get
quite a bit of blockage there, depending on fin
spacing. I have a vacuum kit but due to the small
diameter of the hose on that, it doesn't have
a tremendous airflow. And it's enough to clear
a blockage, where they exist.

My other heatsink, there's no dust on it, as the
fin spacing is large enough to make it "self-clearing".

With the system off, you can visually inspect for a
dust plug. On a Windows 10 system, turn off the power
at the back, so that the system doesn't wake up while
the vacuum is shoved through some fan fins.

There's always a risk you might damage something.

Dusty systems seem to continue running.

Paul
  #6  
Old November 30th 18, 05:26 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mr Pounder Esquire
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Posts: 100
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

Mark Twain wrote:
What are your thoughts about cleaning
the inside of computers with anti-static
brushes, compressed air, vacuum?

I've always been leery about brushing the
motherboard etc because it seems so delicate.

Thoughts?

Robert


For over 11 years I've gently used a paint brush and vacuumed up the dust.
And, I'm still standing. Touches wood.
Oh, I've always earthed myself to a radiator before I take the desktop into
the garage.



  #7  
Old November 30th 18, 08:56 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Shadow
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Posts: 1,638
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 04:00:23 -0800 (PST), Mark Twain
wrote:

What are your thoughts about cleaning
the inside of computers with anti-static
brushes, compressed air, vacuum?

I've always been leery about brushing the
motherboard etc because it seems so delicate.

Thoughts?



Once a year I take my PC outside, ground it, tape the
ventilators so they can't spin and take a leaf-blower to it.
My 1997 and 1998 PCs still works fine, as do all my more
modern ones. The only MB that died on me was a SOYO with leaking
capacitors, and that was over a decade ago.
I might just be lucky - so take care.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  #8  
Old December 1st 18, 12:49 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul in Houston TX[_2_]
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Posts: 999
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

Mark Twain wrote:
What are your thoughts about cleaning
the inside of computers with anti-static
brushes, compressed air, vacuum?

I've always been leery about brushing the
motherboard etc because it seems so delicate.

Thoughts?

Robert


Things I've learned from scada systems work:
Regular synthetic or hair brushes create static.
Get a couple of antistatic brushes off of ebay.
Don't use the anti-huff and puff compressed air stuff either.
It has a bitterant which will leave deposits on everything.
PVnRT: expanding air gets cold and condenses moisture on things.
Ground everything first, including yourself.
I often stick a wire in my boot and let it drag on the ground.
An air compressor works well if if has a drier and deoiler.
Computer fans explode violently at about 30,000 rpm.
  #9  
Old December 1st 18, 12:55 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

I want to thank everyone for their
thoughts and suggestions.

I myself have used a clean soft paint
brush and vacuum to clean out my computer
but I never touch the motherboard etc
because I'm afraid of screwing something
up.

Robert
  #10  
Old December 1st 18, 01:08 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

The last time I had the 8500 open I did want
to clean the heat sink on the 8500 but the fan
is right on top of it so I need to remove it
but one screw seemed tight and I didn't want
to put any pressure on it to remove it so I
left it alone.

So how do I get around that? Try again?

Thanks,
Robert
  #11  
Old December 1st 18, 01:25 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
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Posts: 2,679
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

In message , Mr Pounder Esquire
writes:
[]
Oh, I've always earthed myself to a radiator before I take the desktop into
the garage.

Good idea, but voltage is relative - it's more important that you touch
(an exposed metal part of) the chassis before touching anything inside -
in theory, it probably doesn't matter if you're at 1 kV, if the chassis
is also at 1 kV. (Well, I exaggerate for effect, but YKWIM.) If the
chassis and you are both grounded, even better. Often achievable by
leaving the mains lead (US: line cord) plugged in, assuming it's a 3-pin
plug.


(The kV reference reminds me of an anecdote a colleague told me, from
well before computers. He was working with highish voltages; after
turning things off, he carefully grounded a capacitor terminal. Then
touched its negative terminal ... [I told you voltage is relative!])


Have you ever disagreed with a petition, but been frustrated that there's no
way you can *show* that you disagree? If so, visit 255soft.uk - and please
pass it on, especially to twitter, facebook, gransnet/mumsnet, or any such.
--
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years or more. - "Hamadryad", ~2016-4-4
  #12  
Old December 1st 18, 04:19 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

Mark Twain wrote:
The last time I had the 8500 open I did want
to clean the heat sink on the 8500 but the fan
is right on top of it so I need to remove it
but one screw seemed tight and I didn't want
to put any pressure on it to remove it so I
left it alone.

So how do I get around that? Try again?

Thanks,
Robert


I see two levels to work at.

https://i.postimg.cc/W4jYgKmQ/8500-cooler.jpg

If you remove the four spring-loaded retention
screws, all that will do is give you access to
the bottom of the heatsink. And that isn't where
the dust would be. It's more likely to be up
close to the fan, where it blows down through the
fins.

If, on the other hand, you try to separate the
fan from the heatsink, can you actually do that ?
Some fans use metalwork screws that "bite" into the
aluminum heatsink fins. That tends to kick up metal
filings, which can fall down on the motherboard. And
if instead, that's actually some sort of rivet I'm
looking at, and not a screw, that spells trouble too.

If you do pull the heatsink assembly off the
processor, you'll have to check the paste
or thermal interface material (TIM) before
reassembly. Some Intel heatsinks had a black
brittle material screened onto the heatsink,
and that stuff melts a bit and flows. If you
disassemble that a couple of times, it'll get
quite messed up and difficult to seat properly
again. Then it's time for AS3 or AS5 or similar
paste material.

Little chores like this are fine, as long as
you have the materials handy for reassembly.
I still have a little bit of AS3 left (it's
a paste with boron nitride, but it's also
got some silver particles in it).

Paul
  #13  
Old December 1st 18, 05:05 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

In your image (2) are actually screws and
those were the ones I was attempting to
unscrew because I could see that the spring
loaded ones were not what I needed to remove
the fan.

Hmmmm I never thought of metal filings dropping
to the motherboard. I think I should leave well
enough alone. As I said I don't want to mess
things up.


Robert

  #14  
Old December 1st 18, 05:12 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

I meant (rivets) not(2) of course..

Maybe I can get a set of anti-static
brushes that can get in-between the
fan blades to clean/loosen the dust
and then vacuum?

I don't think they thought much about
maintenance when they build computers.
..

Robert
  #15  
Old December 1st 18, 05:18 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Cleaning computer

In passing... had (4) power outages
today all while I was online!

Thankfully the 8500 came back up OK
each time.

Robert
 




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