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#46
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Windows 9 will be for rent
Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 10:47:29 +0100, Roderick Stewart wrote: Well, they were stupid enough to give us Windows 8, a system which abandoned just about every main feature that anybody could recognise, Only if you use the Metro/Modern interface, which is entirely optional. As far as I'm concerned, what Microsoft did wrong is not make it at all clear that Windows 8 has two interfaces, and you can use either or both. So, your opinion, as mine, is that what Microsoft did "wrong" was not explain the blatantly obvious to the eggspurts? ;-D BTW, there are 3 UIs, if you count the command prompt and Smart Shell as one. -- best regards, Neil |
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#47
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Windows 9 will be for rent
Paul wrote:
Ken Blake, MVP wrote: On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 10:47:29 +0100, Roderick Stewart wrote: Well, they were stupid enough to give us Windows 8, a system which abandoned just about every main feature that anybody could recognise, Only if you use the Metro/Modern interface, which is entirely optional. As far as I'm concerned, what Microsoft did wrong is not make it at all clear that Windows 8 has two interfaces, and you can use either or both. It's entirely optional... after a lot of work. In my experience, it only took extra work to keep Windows from defaulting to the desktop. If I wanted only that UI, I'd have stuck with an earlier version of Windows (such as is on the machine I'm sending this from), which has no Metro interface, and thus will have no ability to run newer apps once the trend among developers swings toward a single development cycle for mobile and stationary devices. -- best regards, Neil |
#48
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Windows 9 will be for rent
Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 07:34:35 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP" wrote: On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 10:47:29 +0100, Roderick Stewart wrote: Well, they were stupid enough to give us Windows 8, a system which abandoned just about every main feature that anybody could recognise, Only if you use the Metro/Modern interface, which is entirely optional. No, not "entirely" optional, but mostly optional. If it were entirely optional, a user would be able to use just one interface or the other, rather than a mix of the two. I would like to be able to use only the desktop interface, but I can't. I had to jump through a number of hoops to keep my computer from booting to the desktop after installing U1. If all you use are desktop apps, what is sending you to the Metro/Modern UI? -- best regards, Neil |
#49
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Windows 9 will be for rent
Per DK:
The only reason corporate people want Office is because no one wants to spend any time looking for programs that can reliably open Office documents. Having seen the complexity of some of the gigacious spreadsheets people have where I work, I have to wonder if anything besides Excel could read and/or create them. Also there would seem to be a fungibility consideration: people get in-depth expertise with Excel and it would seem wasteful to impose something else on them - especially when people are moving from organization-to-organization. -- Pete Cresswell |
#50
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Windows 9 will be for rent
On 06/15/2014 06:13 AM, Alias wrote:
DK wrote: In article , Alias wrote: I think MS wants to go mobile and into the cloud and they are in the caboose of that train. This is an opportunity for Linux but I doubt they can provide what corporate Windows users want, especially Office. The only reason corporate people want Office is because no one wants to spend any time looking for programs that can reliably open Office documents. Other than that, no one gives a **** because 99% users use no more that 1% of features/capabilities of Office programs. DK One word: Outlook. Linux has nothing that comes close. When they do, I will leave Windows. Have you tried Thunderbird with Lightning and possibly the addon Provider for Google Calender? That is if you use Google stuff. Or if you are a business Thunderbird with egroupware. Don't know exactly what you need that Linux doesn't have in a PIM so this is the best I can do. -- Caver1 |
#51
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Windows 9 will be for rent
On 06/15/2014 07:53 AM, Neil Gould wrote:
Char Jackson wrote: On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 07:34:35 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP" wrote: On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 10:47:29 +0100, Roderick Stewart wrote: Well, they were stupid enough to give us Windows 8, a system which abandoned just about every main feature that anybody could recognise, Only if you use the Metro/Modern interface, which is entirely optional. No, not "entirely" optional, but mostly optional. If it were entirely optional, a user would be able to use just one interface or the other, rather than a mix of the two. I would like to be able to use only the desktop interface, but I can't. I had to jump through a number of hoops to keep my computer from booting to the desktop after installing U1. If all you use are desktop apps, what is sending you to the Metro/Modern UI? I couldn't get it to boot to the desktop without an a third party utility. -- Caver1 |
#52
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Windows 9 will be for rent
Caver1 wrote:
On 06/15/2014 06:13 AM, Alias wrote: DK wrote: In article , Alias wrote: I think MS wants to go mobile and into the cloud and they are in the caboose of that train. This is an opportunity for Linux but I doubt they can provide what corporate Windows users want, especially Office. The only reason corporate people want Office is because no one wants to spend any time looking for programs that can reliably open Office documents. Other than that, no one gives a **** because 99% users use no more that 1% of features/capabilities of Office programs. DK One word: Outlook. Linux has nothing that comes close. When they do, I will leave Windows. Have you tried Thunderbird with Lightning and possibly the addon Provider for Google Calender? Lightning yes, Google no and I like Lightning and use it. That is if you use Google stuff. Or if you are a business Thunderbird with egroupware. Don't know exactly what you need that Linux doesn't have in a PIM so this is the best I can do. Proper HTML renderings in emails so that my business emails look the same in Yahoo, Hotmail and Gmail which is what most of my clients use. It would help if they had something like Dreamweaver for web site editing. All I can find that isn't using code is BlueGriffon and it sucks. -- Alias |
#53
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Windows 9 will be for rent
Caver1 wrote, On 6/15/2014 12:59 PM:
I couldn't get it to boot to the desktop without an a third party utility. Taskbar's properties tabs Navigation tab - look in the Start Screen area on that tab - Check 'When I sign in or close all apps on a screen, go to the desktop instead of Start' - Logoff then logon Taskbar tab - Uncheck 'Show Windows Store apps on the taskbar' -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#54
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Windows 9 will be for rent
On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 21:59:15 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote: On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 15:42:11 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP" wrote: That tiled screen is entirely optional, as I said. Ken, you keep saying "entirely optional" when I'm sure you mean mostly or partly optional. I don't think "entirely optional" means what you think it means. I mean "entirely." Neither I nor my wife, nor many other people I know *ever* see the tiled Metro/Modern interface. The biggest problem is that Microsoft has done a terrible job of letting people know there's a choice of interfaces or how to use the desktop interface. Like I and others have said, the biggest problem is that Microsoft didn't simply let users pick an interface *and stick with it*. They *did*. I would love to use the desktop interface all of the time, but so far that doesn't seem to be possible. It *is* possible. I do, my wife does, and many other people I know, use it *all* the time. If you don't, as I said, you should ask yourself what's wrong with your setup. |
#55
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Windows 9 will be for rent
On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 08:28:13 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote: On Sat, 14 Jun 2014 15:42:11 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP" wrote: It may be easy for you, or for me, or probably for most of the people who would join a newsgroup like this, but it certainly isn't for most ordinary folks just looking for a new computer in a shop. If they've used any kind of personal computer before, that tiled screen doesn't look like anything they can understand. That tiled screen is entirely optional, as I said. Although I set it up for my wife, she, who is a complete beginner at computers, never sees it. No, it's not entirely optional. Why do people keep saying this? It simply isn't true. As far as I'm concerned, it *is* true. Neither my wife, nor I, nor many others I know, ever see it. Windows 8 as supplied offers the tiles by default, Yes, a poor default, as far as I'm concerned. Microsoft should have let the users pick which interface they want to be the default. and although you can get to a conventional desktop there isn't a Start button that would enable you to get to a recognisable menu, True, but as much as I like the Start orb, I know several others who prefer the desktop interface without it, and don't choose to use one of the several easy-to-use third-party programs that put it back. so not much point in having it. That's your view, but it's far from everyone's. You have two choices if you use the desktop interface: 1. Use it without the start orb, if you like it that way (as I said, I know several people who do like it that way). 2. Use one of the free or very inexpensive easy-to-use third-party programs that put the Start orb back. That's my choice. I use Start8. Windows 8.1 as supplied can be configured to go straight to the desktop, and there is a button where the Start button always was, but it doesn't behave like one. Right. I agree that doing what Microsoft did here was a poor choice. As we all know, there are third party addons that will restore something like normal behaviour, and the fact that they are amongst the most popular addons for Windows 8 is telling. Telling what? As far as I'm concerned, it's telling that Microsoft's decision here was a poor one, but it's so easy to get around that that poor choice doesn't bother me at all. Some people might absolutely love the new way of working and be perfectly happy to re-learn how to use a computer in order to use it. Well, good for them, but it is the new system that should be optional, not the old. It should not be forced on everybody by default. It isn't "forced," although I agree with you that the default is a poor one. But I don't agree that the desktop interface should be the default. I think all users should have the choice of which they want to be the default. |
#56
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Windows 9 will be for rent
In the last episode of ,
"Ken Blake, MVP" said: As far as I'm concerned, what Microsoft did wrong is not make it at all clear that Windows 8 has two interfaces, and you can use either or both. Something Windows 8.1 fixed. -- Reality is a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. |
#57
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Windows 9 will be for rent
On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 05:26:12 GMT, DK wrote:
Other than that, no one gives a **** because 99% users use no more that 1% of features/capabilities of Office programs. Unfortunately each user uses a different 1%! |
#58
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Windows 9 will be for rent
On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 13:14:03 -0700, DevilsPGD
wrote: In the last episode of , "Ken Blake, MVP" said: As far as I'm concerned, what Microsoft did wrong is not make it at all clear that Windows 8 has two interfaces, and you can use either or both. Something Windows 8.1 fixed. I don't agree. For example, in their advertising, they don't show or even mention the desktop interface. |
#59
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Windows 9 will be for rent
On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 02:58:00 -0400, ...winston wrote:
DK wrote, On 6/15/2014 1:26 AM: Other than that, no one gives a **** because 99% users use no more that 1% of features/capabilities of Office programs. DK How many features are there in Office ? Apparently, 100 times what 99% of users use :-) -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
#60
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Windows 9 will be for rent
In the last episode of ,
"Ken Blake, MVP" said: On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 13:14:03 -0700, DevilsPGD wrote: In the last episode of , "Ken Blake, MVP" said: As far as I'm concerned, what Microsoft did wrong is not make it at all clear that Windows 8 has two interfaces, and you can use either or both. Something Windows 8.1 fixed. I don't agree. For example, in their advertising, they don't show or even mention the desktop interface. And yet it's the default interface if you're on a desktop or portable without a touch screen -- Marketing rarely reflects reality. -- If(tagline = 'funny') steal(); else next message(); |
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