Can't get no BASS via HDMI from Monitor Headphone Output.

I've been collecting devices to cast audio/video.
ChromeCast is an example.
Problem is that they have no way to get audio out.

Today, I acquired an ASUS VE248 Monitor with
HDMI input and internal speakers and headphone
output.

I fired up the win10 computer with the AMD HD6750
video card and plugged the HDMI into the VE248.

I get video and audio out the VE248 speakers.
But the Bass is non-existent. Ok, crap speakers.
I plugged my speaker system into the headphone out.
Audio switches from internal speakers to the headphone
output, but still NO BASS.
This is not a minor problem. Unplug the subwoofer
from your speaker system and you'll experience
what I'm hearing.
I dug around in all the setup screens I could find
to see if it somehow assumed a subwoofer that wasn't
plugged in and filtered L and R audio.
Can't find anything.

So, I plugged in A Chromecast device and cast the
same audio through that to the monitor.
SAME PROBLEM.

I spent the afternoon googling and couldn't find any
hint of that problem.

I can't imagine anyone would stand for this, so
it must be the monitor.
I can understand them filtering the bass for the internal
crap speakers, but the headphone output?

I've got zero experience with HDMI. Is there any possibility
I could fix this inside the monitor? If it's digital filtering
in the HDMI stuff, it's all over.
If I could tap the headphone jack into the path before an
analog filter, I might be able to make this work.

Ideas?

mike wrote:
I've been collecting devices to cast audio/video.
ChromeCast is an example.
Problem is that they have no way to get audio out.

Today, I acquired an ASUS VE248 Monitor with
HDMI input and internal speakers and headphone
output.

I fired up the win10 computer with the AMD HD6750
video card and plugged the HDMI into the VE248.

I get video and audio out the VE248 speakers.
But the Bass is non-existent. Ok, crap speakers.
I plugged my speaker system into the headphone out.
Audio switches from internal speakers to the headphone
output, but still NO BASS.
This is not a minor problem. Unplug the subwoofer
from your speaker system and you'll experience
what I'm hearing.
I dug around in all the setup screens I could find
to see if it somehow assumed a subwoofer that wasn't
plugged in and filtered L and R audio.
Can't find anything.

So, I plugged in A Chromecast device and cast the
same audio through that to the monitor.
SAME PROBLEM.

I spent the afternoon googling and couldn't find any
hint of that problem.

I can't imagine anyone would stand for this, so
it must be the monitor.
I can understand them filtering the bass for the internal
crap speakers, but the headphone output?

I've got zero experience with HDMI. Is there any possibility
I could fix this inside the monitor? If it's digital filtering
in the HDMI stuff, it's all over.
If I could tap the headphone jack into the path before an
analog filter, I might be able to make this work.

Ideas?

Apparently the thing at the end of the chain, can tell the head
end to send stereo. Or send some other channel config.

https://superuser.com/questions/1240...ier-output-5-1

These are examples of "in-line converter boxes with Audio EDID".
The second one shows you don't have to pay a lot. These are
audio extractors.

https://www.amazon.com/J-Tech-Digita.../dp/B074HHSJVN

https://www.amazon.com/AVBOX-Extract.../dp/B078V7CDF5

So does the audio EDID actually work on those or not ? Who knows.
Maybe the Audio Extractor is not allowed to override 2.0
coming from the VE248.

ChromeCast ---------- Audio_Extractor ------------- VE248
8-ch LPCM? Declare 2.0 or 5.1 Declare 2.0
DolbyXXX ? --- EDID --- EDID

They also make extractors with all 7.1 channels pinned out.
Check the review rating before buying.

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Bla.../dp/B01B5FR722

If the output target really is stereo 2.0, then that's what your
gear should be communicating to the head end. Having 7.1 sitting
there, when you don't want it, doesn't help. If you hook up
Front Left and Front Right to a 7.1 signal, there's no particular
reason for bass below 200Hz to be mixed in that signal, as
the bass is supposed to be carried on the Sub channel.

You probably need an AVForum to answer questions like this.

*******

The other method is ARC.

"What is Audio Return Channel (ARC)?"

https://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-au...n-channel-arc/

It might look like this.

bluray_player ---------- big_screen_tv ------- AV_receiver or soundbar
ARC (AV_receiver decodes Dolby)

There's a chance the head end can only send content
formats, for which it has an incoming audio stream.
It might not be doing an active transform, to convert
7.1 down to 2.1 or 2.0 for you. And all your "bass signal"
is on the 7.1 Sub channel - which isn't pinned out anywhere
for you to access.

Paul

On 8/19/2018 8:14 PM, Paul wrote:
mike wrote:
I've been collecting devices to cast audio/video.
ChromeCast is an example.
Problem is that they have no way to get audio out.

Today, I acquired an ASUS VE248 Monitor with
HDMI input and internal speakers and headphone
output.

I fired up the win10 computer with the AMD HD6750
video card and plugged the HDMI into the VE248.

I get video and audio out the VE248 speakers.
But the Bass is non-existent. Ok, crap speakers.
I plugged my speaker system into the headphone out.
Audio switches from internal speakers to the headphone
output, but still NO BASS.
This is not a minor problem. Unplug the subwoofer
from your speaker system and you'll experience
what I'm hearing.
I dug around in all the setup screens I could find
to see if it somehow assumed a subwoofer that wasn't
plugged in and filtered L and R audio.
Can't find anything.

So, I plugged in A Chromecast device and cast the
same audio through that to the monitor.
SAME PROBLEM.

I spent the afternoon googling and couldn't find any
hint of that problem.

I can't imagine anyone would stand for this, so
it must be the monitor.
I can understand them filtering the bass for the internal
crap speakers, but the headphone output?

I've got zero experience with HDMI. Is there any possibility
I could fix this inside the monitor? If it's digital filtering
in the HDMI stuff, it's all over.
If I could tap the headphone jack into the path before an
analog filter, I might be able to make this work.

Ideas?

Apparently the thing at the end of the chain, can tell the head
end to send stereo. Or send some other channel config.

https://superuser.com/questions/1240...ier-output-5-1

You, and the forums I've checked are talking about more complication.
I want something simple.

I start with an MP3 that has only two channels, Right and Left.
It contains ALL the audio because my win10 speakers say so.

I set the sound setup in win10 to use stereo right and left only.
The HDMI driver sends that to the monitor.
I have no idea the format, but it has to be generated in the driver,
cause the source material only has left and right.
The monitor speakers have no means to play anything other than
right and left, cause that's all they got.
The headphone output has only right and left wires.

I can't imagine why anybody would want their headphones to play
without the BASS component.

I can't come up with any (rational) scenario that would do that.

And it's the same from the Chromecast dongle.

These are examples of "in-line converter boxes with Audio EDID".
The second one shows you don't have to pay a lot. These are
audio extractors.

Yep, got at least one of those. If I wanted to use it, I wouldn't be
asking how NOT to use it.

https://www.amazon.com/J-Tech-Digita.../dp/B074HHSJVN


https://www.amazon.com/AVBOX-Extract.../dp/B078V7CDF5


So does the audio EDID actually work on those or not ? Who knows.
Maybe the Audio Extractor is not allowed to override 2.0
coming from the VE248.

ChromeCast ---------- Audio_Extractor ------------- VE248
8-ch LPCM? Declare 2.0 or 5.1 Declare 2.0
DolbyXXX ? --- EDID --- EDID

They also make extractors with all 7.1 channels pinned out.
Check the review rating before buying.

All I want is left and right with full frequency response.

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Bla.../dp/B01B5FR722


If the output target really is stereo 2.0, then that's what your
gear should be communicating to the head end.

That's what I told the win10 driver to do.
Have no idea what the Chromecast is doing, but I was surprised
that the result was the same.

Having 7.1 sitting
there, when you don't want it, doesn't help. If you hook up
Front Left and Front Right to a 7.1 signal, there's no particular
reason for bass below 200Hz to be mixed in that signal, as
the bass is supposed to be carried on the Sub channel.

If all I have is left and right, what would be the reason to
strip it out the bass and send it to left and right?
I don't think I have 5.1 or 7.1 anywhere in the mix.

You probably need an AVForum to answer questions like this.

Got a suggestion? My google attempts failed to come up
with anything that looked like it would help. Lots of chatter
on how to get audio enabled. Didn't find any mention of
frequency response.

*******

The other method is ARC.

"What is Audio Return Channel (ARC)?"

https://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-au...n-channel-arc/

It might look like this.

bluray_player ---------- big_screen_tv ------- AV_receiver or soundbar
ARC (AV_receiver decodes
Dolby)

There's a chance the head end can only send content
formats, for which it has an incoming audio stream.
It might not be doing an active transform, to convert
7.1 down to 2.1 or 2.0 for you. And all your "bass signal"
is on the 7.1 Sub channel - which isn't pinned out anywhere
for you to access.

Why would ARC be involved in a headphone output?

Paul

mike wrote:
I've been collecting devices to cast audio/video.
ChromeCast is an example.
Problem is that they have no way to get audio out.

Today, I acquired an ASUS VE248 Monitor with
HDMI input and internal speakers and headphone
output.

I fired up the win10 computer with the AMD HD6750
video card and plugged the HDMI into the VE248.

I get video and audio out the VE248 speakers.
But the Bass is non-existent. Ok, crap speakers.
I plugged my speaker system into the headphone out.
Audio switches from internal speakers to the headphone
output, but still NO BASS.
This is not a minor problem. Unplug the subwoofer
from your speaker system and you'll experience
what I'm hearing.
I dug around in all the setup screens I could find
to see if it somehow assumed a subwoofer that wasn't
plugged in and filtered L and R audio.
Can't find anything.

So, I plugged in A Chromecast device and cast the
same audio through that to the monitor.
SAME PROBLEM.

I spent the afternoon googling and couldn't find any
hint of that problem.

I can't imagine anyone would stand for this, so
it must be the monitor.
I can understand them filtering the bass for the internal
crap speakers, but the headphone output?

I've got zero experience with HDMI. Is there any possibility
I could fix this inside the monitor? If it's digital filtering
in the HDMI stuff, it's all over.
If I could tap the headphone jack into the path before an
analog filter, I might be able to make this work.

Ideas?

Extractor not supported ???

https://productforums.google.com/for...st/ie9i7ad1pWc

It's probably another case of "nobody wants to
pay for a Dolby license". In terms of downmixing
in the "casting" device itself.

https://en.community.sonos.com/home-...-dd5-1-6753654

It seems the ChromeCast works best if plugged to
the AV_receiver first, then an HDMI out from the
AV_Receiver goes to the video device.

https://superuser.com/questions/1240...ier-output-5-1

Another way to experiment, is use an HDMI capture
card. This one is 1080p60 capable, which is why
it's "more than the usual $100". You want a device
which is passthru, not the single-connector capture
cards. The BlackMagic was the first, which had In
and Out connectors. But others came along without
passthru, which was cheaper.

https://www.amazon.com/Elgato-Game-C.../dp/B014MQIVPS

It's unlikely any of these devices can support
HDCP. Does ChromeCast use HDCP ? Then a capture
card might be a risky solution. Maybe the $500
capture device would work. (There are some 4K
capture cards/boxes now.)

See, thwarted at every turn. You need an
"illegal" HDCP stripper. Certain Chinese 1-to-2 HDMI
distribution amplifiers, had stripping capability,
until they were stopped at the border.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ElgatoGamin...th_chromecast/

It doesn't look like it's going to be easy to
shine a light on the Chromecast capabilities,
using your own "lab equipment".

And if there's absolutely no bass at all,
a "graphic equalizer with really tall sliders"
won't fix it either :-)

*******

For reasons unknown, it looks like an AV_receiver
with passthru video is the best bet. Or maybe,
buying a Roku.

Paul

On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 22:18:55 -0700, mike wrote:

On 8/19/2018 8:14 PM, Paul wrote:
mike wrote:
I've been collecting devices to cast audio/video.
ChromeCast is an example.
Problem is that they have no way to get audio out.

Today, I acquired an ASUS VE248 Monitor with
HDMI input and internal speakers and headphone
output.

I fired up the win10 computer with the AMD HD6750
video card and plugged the HDMI into the VE248.

I get video and audio out the VE248 speakers.
But the Bass is non-existent. Ok, crap speakers.
I plugged my speaker system into the headphone out.
Audio switches from internal speakers to the headphone
output, but still NO BASS.
This is not a minor problem. Unplug the subwoofer
from your speaker system and you'll experience
what I'm hearing.
I dug around in all the setup screens I could find
to see if it somehow assumed a subwoofer that wasn't
plugged in and filtered L and R audio.
Can't find anything.

So, I plugged in A Chromecast device and cast the
same audio through that to the monitor.
SAME PROBLEM.

I spent the afternoon googling and couldn't find any
hint of that problem.

I can't imagine anyone would stand for this, so
it must be the monitor.

Of course it's the monitor. Playing audio through a monitor is done for
convenience, not for fidelity. If you want fidelity, run the audio
through a device that provides that fidelity. I use an AV receiver with
HDMI inputs/outputs. HDMI video and audio from the PC go to the
receiver, where the audio is processed and goes to speakers (headphones
would work as well, but I use speakers), and the video is sent to the
monitor/TV via HDMI.

I can understand them filtering the bass for the internal
crap speakers, but the headphone output?

I would expect the speaker output and the headphone output on the
monitor to be equally crappy.

I can't imagine why anybody would want their headphones to play
without the BASS component.

Then don't plug your headphones into your monitor.

On 8/19/2018 10:42 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 22:18:55 -0700, mike wrote:

On 8/19/2018 8:14 PM, Paul wrote:
mike wrote:
I've been collecting devices to cast audio/video.
ChromeCast is an example.
Problem is that they have no way to get audio out.

Today, I acquired an ASUS VE248 Monitor with
HDMI input and internal speakers and headphone
output.

I fired up the win10 computer with the AMD HD6750
video card and plugged the HDMI into the VE248.

I get video and audio out the VE248 speakers.
But the Bass is non-existent. Ok, crap speakers.
I plugged my speaker system into the headphone out.
Audio switches from internal speakers to the headphone
output, but still NO BASS.
This is not a minor problem. Unplug the subwoofer
from your speaker system and you'll experience
what I'm hearing.
I dug around in all the setup screens I could find
to see if it somehow assumed a subwoofer that wasn't
plugged in and filtered L and R audio.
Can't find anything.

So, I plugged in A Chromecast device and cast the
same audio through that to the monitor.
SAME PROBLEM.

I spent the afternoon googling and couldn't find any
hint of that problem.

I can't imagine anyone would stand for this, so
it must be the monitor.

Of course it's the monitor. Playing audio through a monitor is done for
convenience, not for fidelity. If you want fidelity, run the audio
through a device that provides that fidelity. I use an AV receiver with
HDMI inputs/outputs. HDMI video and audio from the PC go to the
receiver, where the audio is processed and goes to speakers (headphones
would work as well, but I use speakers), and the video is sent to the
monitor/TV via HDMI.

I can understand them filtering the bass for the internal
crap speakers, but the headphone output?

I would expect the speaker output and the headphone output on the
monitor to be equally crappy.

Why would you expect that?
There's no reason to restrict the lows except where the speakers
can't produce it. The headphone output has no such requirement.

It's like restricting the headphone output on your smartphone
to that of the speaker fidelity.
EVERYBODY WOULD BE BITCHIN' ABOUT THAT!
It's not a rational design decision.


I can't imagine why anybody would want their headphones to play
without the BASS component.

Then don't plug your headphones into your monitor.

I'd have to agree that the symptoms point to the monitor design.
I don't expect too many people try to take the audio out
of the monitor, unless there's no other option, like my case.
I'd like to fix it in THIS monitor if I can.

On 8/19/2018 10:38 PM, Paul wrote:
mike wrote:
I've been collecting devices to cast audio/video.
ChromeCast is an example.
Problem is that they have no way to get audio out.

Today, I acquired an ASUS VE248 Monitor with
HDMI input and internal speakers and headphone
output.

I fired up the win10 computer with the AMD HD6750
video card and plugged the HDMI into the VE248.

I get video and audio out the VE248 speakers.
But the Bass is non-existent. Ok, crap speakers.
I plugged my speaker system into the headphone out.
Audio switches from internal speakers to the headphone
output, but still NO BASS.
This is not a minor problem. Unplug the subwoofer
from your speaker system and you'll experience
what I'm hearing.
I dug around in all the setup screens I could find
to see if it somehow assumed a subwoofer that wasn't
plugged in and filtered L and R audio.
Can't find anything.

So, I plugged in A Chromecast device and cast the
same audio through that to the monitor.
SAME PROBLEM.

I spent the afternoon googling and couldn't find any
hint of that problem.

I can't imagine anyone would stand for this, so
it must be the monitor.
I can understand them filtering the bass for the internal
crap speakers, but the headphone output?

I've got zero experience with HDMI. Is there any possibility
I could fix this inside the monitor? If it's digital filtering
in the HDMI stuff, it's all over.
If I could tap the headphone jack into the path before an
analog filter, I might be able to make this work.

Ideas?

Extractor not supported ???

https://productforums.google.com/for...st/ie9i7ad1pWc

The interesting part here is:
2) Chromecast only outputs DD 5.1+.

(I'm lost in all the acronyms)

I understand how that might be problematic for the Chromecast.
Seems that not everyone has 5.1. There are lots of left/right
only speaker systems out there.
Nor does it explain why the win10 computer set for stereo only
has the same problem.

I guess I should plug in the win7 disk and see if it's any different.

It's probably another case of "nobody wants to
pay for a Dolby license". In terms of downmixing
in the "casting" device itself.

https://en.community.sonos.com/home-...-dd5-1-6753654

I've read several posts like that.
It's not clear to me whether their problem is lack of surround sound or
lack of any sound or something else.


It seems the ChromeCast works best if plugged to
the AV_receiver first, then an HDMI out from the
AV_Receiver goes to the video device.

https://superuser.com/questions/1240...ier-output-5-1

The interesting part here is;
Anything I cast on the TV (from the NAS, from Netflix, from Youtube
etc.) will have only stereo sound. The receiver says "PCM (48Khz)" when
auto-detecting the audio source.

That's all I want, stereo sound. There's no mention of lack of bass
response. I can't imagine anybody tolerating complete lack of bass
response.

Another way to experiment, is use an HDMI capture
card. This one is 1080p60 capable, which is why
it's "more than the usual $100". You want a device
which is passthru, not the single-connector capture
cards. The BlackMagic was the first, which had In
and Out connectors. But others came along without
passthru, which was cheaper.

https://www.amazon.com/Elgato-Game-C.../dp/B014MQIVPS

We've had enough discussions that you should understand that if
It ain't $1 at a garage sale, I ain't gonna ever have one ;-)

It's unlikely any of these devices can support
HDCP. Does ChromeCast use HDCP ? Then a capture
card might be a risky solution. Maybe the $500
capture device would work. (There are some 4K
capture cards/boxes now.)

See, thwarted at every turn. You need an
"illegal" HDCP stripper. Certain Chinese 1-to-2 HDMI
distribution amplifiers, had stripping capability,
until they were stopped at the border.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ElgatoGamin...th_chromecast/


It doesn't look like it's going to be easy to
shine a light on the Chromecast capabilities,
using your own "lab equipment".

OK, but since the Chromecast and win10 computer have the
same symptoms, it's likely that the monitor is at fault,
or I have something configured incorrectly.

And if there's absolutely no bass at all,
a "graphic equalizer with really tall sliders"
won't fix it either :-)
My test speakers have only left/right inputs.
The subwoofer is split out inside the speaker system.
When I plug the speaker system into the monitor, there's basically
nothing coming out of the subwoofer.

*******

For reasons unknown, it looks like an AV_receiver
with passthru video is the best bet. Or maybe,
buying a Roku.

I have two Rokus and a Revue, but they're several generations old.
Time for more experiments.

Paul

On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 16:35:55 -0700, mike wrote:

On 8/19/2018 10:38 PM, Paul wrote:

Another way to experiment, is use an HDMI capture
card. This one is 1080p60 capable, which is why
it's "more than the usual $100". You want a device
which is passthru, not the single-connector capture
cards. The BlackMagic was the first, which had In
and Out connectors. But others came along without
passthru, which was cheaper.

https://www.amazon.com/Elgato-Game-C.../dp/B014MQIVPS

We've had enough discussions that you should understand that if
It ain't $1 at a garage sale, I ain't gonna ever have one ;-)

How does free sound? If you have a Freecycle group in your area,
consider asking for an AV receiver with HDMI inputs/outputs. Not only
will that solve your bass problem, it'll also beat the deal you get at
the garage sales and flea markets since it's free. I use an old* AV
receiver to drive speakers in my back yard, which was free from a
generous freecycler.

*old - it was probably 2-3 years old when I got it from an older couple
who no longer had a use for it. They called it old, but to me it was
still fairly current.

If you're feeling guilty about accepting something at no cost, consider
looking through the wanted section and offering up something that
someone else is looking for. The whole idea is to take things that might
be heading to the dump or heading to the attic for indefinite storage,
and putting those items in the hands of someone who will use it now.

I've given away at least a dozen older (but working) computers, misc
audio equipment, assorted tools, small furniture items such as lamps and
end tables, and much more. Don't wait for someone to offer what you're
looking for. Just ask for it. You'll be surprised how often you get
multiple offers to just come and take something away.

https://www.freecycle.org/
(Use the 'browse groups' link to see if you have a local chapter)

This has been my unpaid endorsement of Freecycle. :-)
Hopefully, there's one in your area.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 16:12:39 -0700, mike wrote:

On 8/19/2018 10:42 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 22:18:55 -0700, mike wrote:

On 8/19/2018 8:14 PM, Paul wrote:
mike wrote:
I've been collecting devices to cast audio/video.
ChromeCast is an example.
Problem is that they have no way to get audio out.

Today, I acquired an ASUS VE248 Monitor with
HDMI input and internal speakers and headphone
output.

I fired up the win10 computer with the AMD HD6750
video card and plugged the HDMI into the VE248.

I get video and audio out the VE248 speakers.
But the Bass is non-existent. Ok, crap speakers.
I plugged my speaker system into the headphone out.
Audio switches from internal speakers to the headphone
output, but still NO BASS.
This is not a minor problem. Unplug the subwoofer
from your speaker system and you'll experience
what I'm hearing.
I dug around in all the setup screens I could find
to see if it somehow assumed a subwoofer that wasn't
plugged in and filtered L and R audio.
Can't find anything.

So, I plugged in A Chromecast device and cast the
same audio through that to the monitor.
SAME PROBLEM.

I spent the afternoon googling and couldn't find any
hint of that problem.

I can't imagine anyone would stand for this, so
it must be the monitor.

Of course it's the monitor. Playing audio through a monitor is done for
convenience, not for fidelity. If you want fidelity, run the audio
through a device that provides that fidelity. I use an AV receiver with
HDMI inputs/outputs. HDMI video and audio from the PC go to the
receiver, where the audio is processed and goes to speakers (headphones
would work as well, but I use speakers), and the video is sent to the
monitor/TV via HDMI.

I can understand them filtering the bass for the internal
crap speakers, but the headphone output?

I would expect the speaker output and the headphone output on the
monitor to be equally crappy.

Why would you expect that?
There's no reason to restrict the lows except where the speakers
can't produce it. The headphone output has no such requirement.

Put yourself in the design/marketing meeting on the day that this
monitor was on the agenda. Half the people in the room are arguing that
no one is going to use this feature anyway, and they're mostly right.
The other half are arguing that they need this feature because a
competitor has it, but it must cost less than 3 magic beans. The
engineers are sent scurrying to design a system, and that's what it is,
that will meet the requirements that they heard in the design/marketing
meeting.

I call it a system because it's not one team designing an awesome (but
dirt cheap) amplifier and a separate team deciding to couple that amp
with the crappiest of speakers. Instead, there's coordination going on,
with the giant fist of budgets hanging over all of their heads. The amp
designer knows he's going to get **** for speakers, so he doesn't go out
of his way to do any better than necessary. Last, but not least, if you
thought hardly anyone is going to use the monitor speakers, just think
how few are going to try the monitor's headphone jack. You're in rare
company there.

That leads me to my final question: Why try so hard to get decent audio
via your monitor? That makes no sense to me. Take the audio from a
source that has higher fidelity since fidelity is obviously important to
you.

Heh, I just read what I wrote and it sounds like I'm ranting. I'm not;
I'm actually amused, not annoyed. Good luck in your quest! :-)

Char Jackson wrote:

Put yourself in the design/marketing meeting on the day that this
monitor was on the agenda. Half the people in the room are arguing that
no one is going to use this feature anyway, and they're mostly right.
The other half are arguing that they need this feature because a
competitor has it, but it must cost less than 3 magic beans. The
engineers are sent scurrying to design a system, and that's what it is,
that will meet the requirements that they heard in the design/marketing
meeting.

I call it a system because it's not one team designing an awesome (but
dirt cheap) amplifier and a separate team deciding to couple that amp
with the crappiest of speakers. Instead, there's coordination going on,
with the giant fist of budgets hanging over all of their heads. The amp
designer knows he's going to get **** for speakers, so he doesn't go out
of his way to do any better than necessary. Last, but not least, if you
thought hardly anyone is going to use the monitor speakers, just think
how few are going to try the monitor's headphone jack. You're in rare
company there.

That leads me to my final question: Why try so hard to get decent audio
via your monitor? That makes no sense to me. Take the audio from a
source that has higher fidelity since fidelity is obviously important to
you.

Heh, I just read what I wrote and it sounds like I'm ranting. I'm not;
I'm actually amused, not annoyed. Good luck in your quest! :-)

You could do the amp for the monitor, with a single chip
with almost no heatsink, and around 6-8 analog components.
(One set of those, for each channel.) You could run it off
the 12V used by the panel, or coming direct from the wall
adapter.

The amp doesn't have to be very complicated at all. A high
school student could do the amp, using the application
note. (In some cases, there's even a suggested layout
in the application note from the manufacturer of the chip.)
When you do an amp like that, you still need to do a
minimum of lab verification, to ensure the amp isn't
actually oscillating. (I had an amp once, that was
oscillating at 500KHz. When that happens, your amp
will sound "hollow". That's your first hint you
fouled up the layout.)

That doesn't answer the question though, of why the
buffered LineOut on the monitor, isn't full spectrum.
If you plug in your $300 headphones, the signal
should sound damn good. The signal could be coming
from the chip that processes the HDMI (on the input
board).

Paul

mike wrote:

The interesting part here is;
Anything I cast on the TV (from the NAS, from Netflix, from Youtube
etc.) will have only stereo sound. The receiver says "PCM (48Khz)" when
auto-detecting the audio source.

I got an idea from this thread.

https://www.experts-exchange.com/que...DMI-audio.html

The individual posting there, has two TV sets.
One has a 128 byte EDID table, as dumped by the
EntechTaiwan "moninfo" program. The other TV dumps
a 256 byte EDID table. (Apparently there is even
a 512 byte option, but that's not important at the
moment.)

This is what the Toshiba shows.

CE video identifiers (VICs) - timing/formats supported === audio piggybacks on this format
1920 x 1080p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1) [Native]
...
CE audio data (formats supported)
LPCM 2-channel, 16/20/24 bit depths at 32/44/48 kHz === should get two full channels
with bass this way
Raw data (256 byte EDID)
00,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,00,52,62,08,02,01,01,01,01,FF ,13,01,03,80,69,3B,78,0A,0D,C9,A0,57,47,98,27,
12,48,4C,2F,CF,00,81,80,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01 ,01,01,01,01,01,02,3A,80,18,71,38,2D,40,58,2C,
45,00,C4,8E,21,00,00,1E,8C,0A,D0,8A,20,E0,2D,10,10 ,3E,96,00,C4,8E,21,00,00,18,00,00,00,FC,00,54,
53,42,2D,54,56,0A,20,20,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,FD,00 ,17,4C,0F,51,0F,00,0A,20,20,20,20,20,20,01,02,
02,03,23,71,4A,90,05,04,03,07,02,06,01,20,22,23,09 ,07,07,6C,03,0C,00,40,00,38,2D,C0,2B,2B,33,33,
E2,00,7F,01,1D,80,18,71,1C,16,20,58,2C,25,00,C4,8E ,21,00,00,9E,01,1D,00,72,51,D0,1E,20,6E,28,55,
00,C4,8E,21,00,00,1E,8C,0A,D0,8A,20,E0,2D,10,10,3E ,96,00,13,8E,21,00,00,18,8C,0A,A0,14,51,F0,16,
00,26,7C,43,00,13,8E,21,00,00,98,8C,0A,A0,14,51,F0 ,16,00,26,7C,43,00,C4,8E,21,00,00,98,00,00,FE

You could run moninfo in Windows, while the VE248
is connected via HDMI to your computer, and dump
the EDID (real time dump).

https://www.entechtaiwan.com/files/mi_setup.exe

Your VE248 should really send the same value
as in the example. As it's 2.0 audio (no Sub signal
to screw things up).

*******

There's a guy here selling an EDID faking box, and
you'll notice he doesn't have a lot of audio choices.

https://www.clearvisionsystems.co.uk/hdmi-edid-feeder

2 channel
5.1 channel (so there is a Sub signal carrying 200Hz content etc)
HD === what is this, 7.1 LPCM ???

And while an EDID faking box should have worked,
I can find threads where it didn't. And only an
AV receiver seemed to satisfy the upstream device.

HTH,
Paul

Paul wrote:
mike wrote:

The interesting part here is;
Anything I cast on the TV (from the NAS, from Netflix, from Youtube
etc.) will have only stereo sound. The receiver says "PCM (48Khz)"
when auto-detecting the audio source.

I got an idea from this thread.

https://www.experts-exchange.com/que...DMI-audio.html



https://www.entechtaiwan.com/files/mi_setup.exe

The audio EDID extension is described here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extend...ification_Data

bit 6..3: Audio format code
0 = Reserved
1 = Linear Pulse Code Modulation (LPCM)
2 = AC-3
3 = MPEG1 (Layers 1 and 2)
4 = MP3
5 = MPEG2
6 = AAC
7 = DTS
8 = ATRAC
9 = One-bit audio aka SACD
10 = DD+
11 = DTS-HD
12 = MLP/Dolby TrueHD
13 = DTS Audio
14 = Microsoft WMA Pro
15 = Reserved
bit 2..0: number of channels minus 1
000 = 1 channel
001 = 2 channels
...
111 = 8 channels (i.e. could be 7.1 maybe)

Paul

On 8/20/2018 9:24 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 16:12:39 -0700, mike wrote:

On 8/19/2018 10:42 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2018 22:18:55 -0700, mike wrote:

On 8/19/2018 8:14 PM, Paul wrote:
mike wrote:
I've been collecting devices to cast audio/video.
ChromeCast is an example.
Problem is that they have no way to get audio out.

Today, I acquired an ASUS VE248 Monitor with
HDMI input and internal speakers and headphone
output.

I fired up the win10 computer with the AMD HD6750
video card and plugged the HDMI into the VE248.

I get video and audio out the VE248 speakers.
But the Bass is non-existent. Ok, crap speakers.
I plugged my speaker system into the headphone out.
Audio switches from internal speakers to the headphone
output, but still NO BASS.
This is not a minor problem. Unplug the subwoofer
from your speaker system and you'll experience
what I'm hearing.
I dug around in all the setup screens I could find
to see if it somehow assumed a subwoofer that wasn't
plugged in and filtered L and R audio.
Can't find anything.

So, I plugged in A Chromecast device and cast the
same audio through that to the monitor.
SAME PROBLEM.

I spent the afternoon googling and couldn't find any
hint of that problem.

I can't imagine anyone would stand for this, so
it must be the monitor.

Of course it's the monitor. Playing audio through a monitor is done for
convenience, not for fidelity. If you want fidelity, run the audio
through a device that provides that fidelity. I use an AV receiver with
HDMI inputs/outputs. HDMI video and audio from the PC go to the
receiver, where the audio is processed and goes to speakers (headphones
would work as well, but I use speakers), and the video is sent to the
monitor/TV via HDMI.

I can understand them filtering the bass for the internal
crap speakers, but the headphone output?

I would expect the speaker output and the headphone output on the
monitor to be equally crappy.

Why would you expect that?
There's no reason to restrict the lows except where the speakers
can't produce it. The headphone output has no such requirement.

Put yourself in the design/marketing meeting on the day that this
monitor was on the agenda. Half the people in the room are arguing that
no one is going to use this feature anyway, and they're mostly right.
The other half are arguing that they need this feature because a
competitor has it, but it must cost less than 3 magic beans. The
engineers are sent scurrying to design a system, and that's what it is,
that will meet the requirements that they heard in the design/marketing
meeting.

Can't argue with that. I've been in "that meeting" numerous times.
But I didn't let 'em do something stupid when it didn't save any
money or time.

I call it a system because it's not one team designing an awesome (but
dirt cheap) amplifier and a separate team deciding to couple that amp
with the crappiest of speakers. Instead, there's coordination going on,
with the giant fist of budgets hanging over all of their heads. The amp
designer knows he's going to get **** for speakers, so he doesn't go out
of his way to do any better than necessary.

I can't imagine that taking the headphone out prior to the filter
would cost anything...unless the filter is software and done in
software inside some HDMI chip.

Last, but not least, if you
thought hardly anyone is going to use the monitor speakers, just think
how few are going to try the monitor's headphone jack. You're in rare
company there.

That leads me to my final question: Why try so hard to get decent audio
via your monitor? That makes no sense to me. Take the audio from a
source that has higher fidelity since fidelity is obviously important to
you.

Well...that's my point. The objective is to get audio out of something
that has no other audio output format. In this case it's Chromecast.
I did mess some with the Logitech Revue. It's worthless for many other
reasons, but it also exhibits the missing bass symptom.
I don't need a lot of other equipment in the path. The objective is to
take the computer and everything else out of the path and cast to the
monitor wirelessly. I do have to use an active speaker set to get it
out of the monitor...if only it would work at full spectrum.

Heh, I just read what I wrote and it sounds like I'm ranting. I'm not;
I'm actually amused, not annoyed. Good luck in your quest! :-)

On 8/20/2018 9:10 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2018 16:35:55 -0700, mike wrote:

On 8/19/2018 10:38 PM, Paul wrote:

Another way to experiment, is use an HDMI capture
card. This one is 1080p60 capable, which is why
it's "more than the usual $100". You want a device
which is passthru, not the single-connector capture
cards. The BlackMagic was the first, which had In
and Out connectors. But others came along without
passthru, which was cheaper.

https://www.amazon.com/Elgato-Game-C.../dp/B014MQIVPS

We've had enough discussions that you should understand that if
It ain't $1 at a garage sale, I ain't gonna ever have one ;-)

How does free sound? If you have a Freecycle group in your area,
consider asking for an AV receiver with HDMI inputs/outputs.
I don't need/want an AV receiver. I want a monitor with speaker
out and wireless AV input. I don't really need it, I have the pieces
and wanted to make it work.
Not only
will that solve your bass problem, it'll also beat the deal you get at
the garage sales and flea markets since it's free. I use an old* AV
receiver to drive speakers in my back yard, which was free from a
generous freecycler.

I could check that out. We have/had a freecycle store in Portland.
Last time I was in there, they wanted 10X what I'd been spending at
garage sales. Their stuff was crappier than what I'd been buying.
And they didn't provide any of the euphoria I get from
digging thru other people's junk at a garage sale.


*old - it was probably 2-3 years old when I got it from an older couple
who no longer had a use for it. They called it old, but to me it was
still fairly current.

If you're feeling guilty
guilty about free stuff is not something I experience.
about accepting something at no cost, consider
looking through the wanted section and offering up something that
someone else is looking for. The whole idea is to take things that might
be heading to the dump or heading to the attic for indefinite storage,
and putting those items in the hands of someone who will use it now.

I've given away at least a dozen older (but working) computers, misc
audio equipment, assorted tools, small furniture items such as lamps and
end tables, and much more. Don't wait for someone to offer what you're
looking for. Just ask for it. You'll be surprised how often you get
multiple offers to just come and take something away.

https://www.freecycle.org/
(Use the 'browse groups' link to see if you have a local chapter)
I signed up.
Not much interesting. Most of the listings are months old.

This has been my unpaid endorsement of Freecycle. :-)
Hopefully, there's one in your area.