A Windows XP help forum. PCbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PCbanter forum » Microsoft Windows 7 » Windows 7 Forum
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

! Windows 7 Sucks



 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #91  
Old December 4th 11, 03:32 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
DanS[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,021
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

I can't see any new OS taking off in the real world: it'd
have to run Windows and/or Mac applications or not enough
people would buy it for it to be anything but a novelty
for geeks.


Like Linux ? (Don't let *them* hear you say that...wait,
that was me that said that. I run Linux too, 1/2 the time.)

As a desktop OS, Linux is comletely useable now, for a


I don't doubt that it is - or rather, the Linux enthusiasts
have been telling me so for many years now, and I'm
inclined to believe them.


(Have you tried a Live CD ? I'd suggest Kubuntu)

The fact remains, however, that
if an ordinary member of the public, here in UK and I
suspect in US, decides to buy a computer from virtually any
of the high/main street usual suspects, and a pretty high
proportion of online retailers, he will not be offered a
Linux-based one.


Correct. Dell was selling Ubuntu boxs for a while. Maybe if
you deal with private computer shops, they may offer a Linux
box.

Linux may *never* take hold based solely on the 'great'
philosophy of FOSS. There is no incentive (money) to invest
gobs and gobs of time and effort.....and money. And then, at
any point in time, if someone has a spat, or their views
differ, that can just 'fork' of the s/w and produce their own.
That is *exactly* what happened with OpenOffice, and why there
is now Libre Office.



*typical home user*, except that 1) you need to make sure
the


So the "typical home user" - who just buys the computer,
and probably some software - is unlikely to (have the
opportunity to) actually find out.

hardware will work, and two, 2) you'd need to learn new


Well, with a couple of the more friendly distros, it's not
really a problem with the actual PC hardware, but instead,
peripherals plugged into the PC. Printer support for one.
Canon supports Linux for ALL their printers. Other companies
have limited, or no support.



Hmm ... now you're unpicking my support. To go cars again,
even if I buy something exotic like a hydrogen-powered one,
I would expect not to have to worry about whether it works
or not, only where I'm going to find the fuel stations.

troubleshooting and repair techniques, 3) some of your s/w
would need to be replaced, which would require some
investment in time to familiarize yourself with it. *Some*
of the most common home user apps are produced for Linux
and Windows, Firefox and Thunderbird spring to mind
immediately. Dropbox, Skype (although the Linux version
really does s*ck), Nero, OpenOffice/LibreOffice, GIMP,
Filezilla, Opera, Pidgin.


I think we're moving out of "common home user" here. I
suppose I mean something like the 90% level (though I am
pretty sure the proportion is in the higher nineties). I
think you'll find - sadly! - that the majority of common
users use Windows as OS, IE rather than Firefox as browser,
WLM (or, these days, a web interface) for mail (and won't
use newsnet at all - possibly using the odd forum), Office
(or at least Word) for WP, and so on. Or the Mac
equivalents for those with lots of money (or, and I think
there probably _is_ something in it, who want even less
hassle). []


I *may* be moving away, but, I wasn't really thinking by ways
of the actual piece of s/w to do whatever task, but only that
there is s/w available.

Like the browsers I mentioned, or there's Open Office, a
multitude of e-mail programs, etc.

.....here's what I always try to get across to people....they
all work the same way. If you know how to use Word, you know
how to use OO/LO Writer, or AbiWord, or Word Perfect, etc.
They all have the same UI, same menus, same features.(Yes,
small differences, so I should have said equivalent, but basic
usage is identical.)

.....so it's not really a matter of having to relearn
everything you know to switch packages.....

....let's look a NL video editors....MS MovieMaker, Adobe
Premiere, Sony Vegas, Pinnacle Studio, ULead Videostudio, etc.

All different s/w packages to do the same thing, form
different vendors, yet the majority of using each is the same.

They all let you create a project, they all have a media
'library' to choose from. In all of them, you drag-n-drop
video clips from teh library into the timeline, trim/crop, add
effects to tracks, add audio tracks, titling, etc.

It's not the actual program itself, but the concepts of what
you are doing that are important. You can edit/render video in
the free Movie Maker, the same way you edit/render video in an
expensive Adobe Premiere. (Of course, Premiere has more
features, but the concept is identical.)


SNIP a whole bunch of stuff we mostly agree about

(However, let me tell you how the 'typical' PC users that I
know works...."Dan, the printer stopped working, can you fix
it"...."Dan, can you install this for me"..."Dan, I keep
getting this error...."...etc.)


But lethargy - and, the genuine time it takes to learn
anything different, even if actually better - gave M. time
to develop 7, which - even if it is just Vista with a lot
of the bugs (including in just how it works) fixed, and
that saved them. (Along with some pretty heavy
advertising.)


Yes. And 7 was vastly improved over Vista (gold release
anyway) and is being accepted.


(PS- John...this is the most intelligent debate/discussion
I've had on Usenet in at least 6 months. Thank you.)
Ads
  #92  
Old December 4th 11, 03:35 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
DanS[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,021
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

In message
31, DanS
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote
in :

still admire compact code, though, and feel it runs
both faster and more reliably. Like "flamer", a little
utility I have which simulates flames on the screen, in
453 bytes ... [my copy of the file is dated 1995,
though I think the original is older than that].)

This is intersting. Do you have source, or just the
program ?

Sorry, only the executable. (I think it's a .com rather
than a .exe! I think it runs in something like CGA - you
can certainly see the pixels - though it runs under DOS,
9x, and XP [though full-screen on all]; I haven't tried
it on 7.) And with a name like that, it's impossible to
google for.


CGA ? That wouldn't be good anyway....


Just guessing; it runs in full screen mode (not
surprising), and when it's running I can see that its
resolution is limited (I can see the little squares the
flames are made up of). But it switches to it from whatever
(VGA, SVGA, etc.) mode you're using, and you get your
original screen back when you stop it.

And yes, and Googling for "flamer", even with a binch of
other qualifying words, was futile.


"BUNCH" even.


Is your email valid if I take all the dots out (apart from
the one before the c)?


It *is* valid if all the dots are removed except for the one
before the 'c'.
  #93  
Old December 4th 11, 04:11 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,291
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

In message 31, DanS
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

[]
As a desktop OS, Linux is comletely useable now, for a


I don't doubt that it is - or rather, the Linux enthusiasts
have been telling me so for many years now, and I'm
inclined to believe them.


(Have you tried a Live CD ? I'd suggest Kubuntu)


(No: I don't have the time, that's all.)

The fact remains, however, that
if an ordinary member of the public, here in UK and I
suspect in US, decides to buy a computer from virtually any
of the high/main street usual suspects, and a pretty high
proportion of online retailers, he will not be offered a
Linux-based one.


Correct. Dell was selling Ubuntu boxs for a while. Maybe if


Yes, I remember that. Wonder why they stopped: I _hope_ it wasn't
pressure from M$.

you deal with private computer shops, they may offer a Linux
box.


Yes, certainly, I think if someone goes to one and says "build me a
computer", they're _very_ likely to be offered that choice. (Apart from
anything else, M$'s marketing/pricing strategy has - IMO - more or less
killed home assembly anyway, at least of Windows machines.)

Linux may *never* take hold based solely on the 'great'
philosophy of FOSS. There is no incentive (money) to invest
gobs and gobs of time and effort.....and money. And then, at
any point in time, if someone has a spat, or their views
differ, that can just 'fork' of the s/w and produce their own.
That is *exactly* what happened with OpenOffice, and why there
is now Libre Office.

(Ah, I'd noticed mention of that: I'd thought maybe it was something for
Mac.)
[]
....here's what I always try to get across to people....they
all work the same way. If you know how to use Word, you know
how to use OO/LO Writer, or AbiWord, or Word Perfect, etc.
They all have the same UI, same menus, same features.(Yes,
small differences, so I should have said equivalent, but basic
usage is identical.)


But I think a significant proportion of "standard users" just don't
even know they exist at all.

....so it's not really a matter of having to relearn
everything you know to switch packages.....

...let's look a NL video editors....MS MovieMaker, Adobe
Premiere, Sony Vegas, Pinnacle Studio, ULead Videostudio, etc.

All different s/w packages to do the same thing, form
different vendors, yet the majority of using each is the same.

They all let you create a project, they all have a media
'library' to choose from. In all of them, you drag-n-drop
video clips from teh library into the timeline, trim/crop, add
effects to tracks, add audio tracks, titling, etc.


All sounds _way_ too complicated for my "standard user" - who I suspect
does no more than his equivalent did ten years ago: email, web, a bit of
word-processing (to write the odd letter), and media playing. Granted,
his/her web access and media playing probably include more video than
they used to. But I suspect a lot of them don't edit video, or even
audio.
[]
(However, let me tell you how the 'typical' PC users that I
know works...."Dan, the printer stopped working, can you fix
it"...."Dan, can you install this for me"..."Dan, I keep
getting this error...."...etc.)

Yup (-:. I've been tempted by those "no, I _won't_ fix your computer"
T-shirts, but (as well as not wearing T-shirts because they don't have a
pocket!) I _do_ continue to do so because I enjoy it.

Including the "teaching" that is involved. OK, it can be depressing when
most of it goes in one ear and ..., but it is so rewarding when
something sticks, and you see them doing unaided something you've been
teaching them. I think my most satisfying "pupil" is an old chap - a
printer, from the hot metal days - who is very slow to learn anything,
but - over several years - I have got him to the point where he's
gradually converting his record and cassette collection to CDs, all on a
Windows 98 system (which is more than adequate for the purpose).
[]
Yes. And 7 was vastly improved over Vista (gold release
anyway) and is being accepted.

It very much is being accepted. Since I tend to hang back and watch the
fun, I have observed each new Windows' arrival with interest: the cries
of delight at things that had been fixed, and of anguish at things that
had been changed for no (or no _obvious_ to the masses) good reason, and
the twitterings (positive and negative) of those for whom it was their
first encounter with computing at all. But when 7 came in, I was
overwhelmed by the silence: quite unnerving in a way. Of course, some of
that is because computing in general is so much more a part of life and
not a novelty any more, but the lack of comment did startle me.

(PS- John...this is the most intelligent debate/discussion
I've had on Usenet in at least 6 months. Thank you.)


Beam! Thanks. Usenet can be enjoyable! (I've been using it since I
dialled up with my DOS machine using modified KA9Q!)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... his charming, bumbling best, a serial monogamist terrified of commitment,
who comes across as a sort of Bertie Wooster but with a measurable IQ. - Barry
Norman on Hugh Grant's persona in certain films, Radio Times 3-9 July 2010
  #94  
Old December 5th 11, 11:18 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Gene E. Bloch[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,720
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

On 12/02/2011, DanS posted:
Gene E. Bloch wrote in
:


On 12/02/2011, DanS posted:
And now with the whole HP printer exploit that's in the
news, who knows what's going to go on with printing
technologies...maybe there wil be a push just back to
dumb peripherals for most.

News to me. I plead ignorance here and I must check this
out.


http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/29/9076395-
exclusive-millions-of-printers-open-to-devastating-hack-
attack-researchers-say


One quote from the article:
"In that demonstration, a thermal switch shut the printer
down – basically, causing it to self-destruct".

That tends to destroy the article's credibility for me. In
reality, thermal switches, like fuses, *prevent*
self-destruction...

But that was probably written by the reporter, and he may
have been confused.

Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the exploit
can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA documents
& carry them to the printer so they could "...use a
hijacked printer as a copy machine for criminals, making it
easy to commit identity theft or even take control of
entire networks that would otherwise be secure", or cause
me to carry copied documents to the post office and mail
them to Petrograd.


I'm not sure.....although, if you have a large size commercial
HP printer/copier, similar tot he one at work which is a
Minolta, not an HP.....it could be one that has a hard drive
on it that stores things it copies and print, basically
forever, until it's overwritten or purposely erased, usually
through some obscure front panel sequence.


It was a big to-do here, when the city's leased peripherals
were traded in, with city document still on them, on the HD.
These could have been just copiers however, but the
possibility stil remains.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...gnews/main6412
439.shtml


You didn't address my real question, so I'll requote it below:

"Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the exploit
can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA documents
& carry them to the printer".

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)


  #95  
Old December 5th 11, 11:32 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Gene E. Bloch[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,720
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

On 12/03/2011, DanS posted:
(I know, not a truly valid analogy, since the cars don't need
to interop with other cars, but still.)


Does that mean I can cancel my collision insurance?

Just asking...

While I'm here, I do find this an interesting thread, but it seems like
on some level I can manage agree with hardly *anybody*. The result is
that I can't really contribute meaningfully to the thread (beyond the
occasional pun).

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)


  #96  
Old December 5th 11, 11:42 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Gene E. Bloch[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,720
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

On 12/03/2011, Char Jackson posted:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 20:53:17 +0000, Loonie wrote:


If I had the chance again, I would certainly NOT have gone for Win 7. I
support the notion that Win 7 SUCKS!!!!!!!!


I think it's safe to say that most of us aren't having any serious
problems with it. Yes, there are a few minor annoyances, but overall
it works just fine.


That's certainly been my experience.

What problems are you having?


This question is for Loonie, so I'll go away now.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)


  #97  
Old December 6th 11, 01:27 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
DanS[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,021
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

Gene E. Bloch wrote in
:

On 12/02/2011, DanS posted:
Gene E. Bloch wrote in
:


On 12/02/2011, DanS posted:
And now with the whole HP printer exploit that's in
the news, who knows what's going to go on with
printing technologies...maybe there wil be a push just
back to dumb peripherals for most.

News to me. I plead ignorance here and I must check
this out.

http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/29/9076395-
exclusive-millions-of-printers-open-to-devastating-hack-
attack-researchers-say

One quote from the article:
"In that demonstration, a thermal switch shut the printer
down – basically, causing it to self-destruct".

That tends to destroy the article's credibility for me.
In reality, thermal switches, like fuses, *prevent*
self-destruction...

But that was probably written by the reporter, and he may
have been confused.

Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the
exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA
documents & carry them to the printer so they could
"...use a hijacked printer as a copy machine for
criminals, making it easy to commit identity theft or
even take control of entire networks that would otherwise
be secure", or cause me to carry copied documents to the
post office and mail them to Petrograd.


I'm not sure.....although, if you have a large size
commercial HP printer/copier, similar tot he one at work
which is a Minolta, not an HP.....it could be one that has
a hard drive on it that stores things it copies and print,
basically forever, until it's overwritten or purposely
erased, usually through some obscure front panel sequence.


It was a big to-do here, when the city's leased
peripherals were traded in, with city document still on
them, on the HD. These could have been just copiers
however, but the possibility stil remains.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...ningnews/main6
412 439.shtml


You didn't address my real question, so I'll requote it
below:

"Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the
exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA
documents & carry them to the printer".


*I've* been trying to figure out how you got anything about
mind control or the CIA out of that article.

(I laughed off that question as outlandish, bizarre, and over-
the-top.)

  #98  
Old December 6th 11, 06:13 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Wolf K
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

On 06/12/2011 7:27 AM, DanS wrote:
Gene Wrote:
You didn't address my real question, so I'll requote it
below:

"Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the
exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA
documents& carry them to the printer".

*I've* been trying to figure out how you got anything about
mind control or the CIA out of that article.

(I laughed off that question as outlandish, bizarre, and over-
the-top.)


Gene was doing satire.

Wolf K.
  #99  
Old December 6th 11, 07:57 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Gene E. Bloch[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,720
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

On 12/06/2011, DanS posted:
Gene E. Bloch wrote in
:


On 12/02/2011, DanS posted:
Gene E. Bloch wrote in
:
On 12/02/2011, DanS posted:
And now with the whole HP printer exploit that's in
the news, who knows what's going to go on with
printing technologies...maybe there wil be a push just
back to dumb peripherals for most.

News to me. I plead ignorance here and I must check
this out.

http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/29/9076395-
exclusive-millions-of-printers-open-to-devastating-hack-
attack-researchers-say

One quote from the article:
"In that demonstration, a thermal switch shut the printer
down – basically, causing it to self-destruct".

That tends to destroy the article's credibility for me.
In reality, thermal switches, like fuses, *prevent*
self-destruction...

But that was probably written by the reporter, and he may
have been confused.

Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the
exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA
documents & carry them to the printer so they could
"...use a hijacked printer as a copy machine for
criminals, making it easy to commit identity theft or
even take control of entire networks that would otherwise
be secure", or cause me to carry copied documents to the
post office and mail them to Petrograd.
I'm not sure.....although, if you have a large size
commercial HP printer/copier, similar tot he one at work
which is a Minolta, not an HP.....it could be one that has
a hard drive on it that stores things it copies and print,
basically forever, until it's overwritten or purposely
erased, usually through some obscure front panel sequence.
It was a big to-do here, when the city's leased
peripherals were traded in, with city document still on
them, on the HD. These could have been just copiers
however, but the possibility stil remains.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...ningnews/main6
412 439.shtml


You didn't address my real question, so I'll requote it
below:

"Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the
exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA
documents & carry them to the printer".


*I've* been trying to figure out how you got anything about
mind control or the CIA out of that article.


(I laughed off that question as outlandish, bizarre, and over-
the-top.)


Perhaps you failed to notice sentences such as these in the article:

In paragraph one:
"Or use a hijacked printer as a copy machine for criminals, making it
easy to commit identity theft or even take control of entire networks
that would otherwise be secure?"

In paragraph three:
"Printers can be remotely controlled by computer criminals over the
Internet, with the potential to steal personal information, attack
otherwise secure networks and even cause physical damage, the
researchers argue..."

Things that, in my opinion, would require me to go to the printer or
copier and perform certain acts at the behest of the criminals.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)


  #100  
Old December 6th 11, 08:02 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Gene E. Bloch[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,720
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

On 12/06/2011, Wolf K posted:
On 06/12/2011 7:27 AM, DanS wrote:
Gene Wrote:
You didn't address my real question, so I'll requote it
below:

"Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the
exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA
documents& carry them to the printer".

*I've* been trying to figure out how you got anything about
mind control or the CIA out of that article.

(I laughed off that question as outlandish, bizarre, and over-
the-top.)


Gene was doing satire.


Wolf K.


Not really. See my reply to DanS a couple of hours after yours.

I certainly expressed it satirically, but it was meant seriously as a
way of rebutting the article.

Besides, I've recently had my tinfoil hat refurbished, so I feel safe
now :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)


  #101  
Old December 7th 11, 01:40 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Todd[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 724
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

On 11/29/2011 08:55 AM, Microsoft Rippoff wrote:
Windows 7 is the new Windows ME.

IE9 sucks really bad too.

Windows 7 64-bit sucks even worse.

Don't buy it. Insist on XP or Mac!

Hope this helps.


http://elrepo.org/people/ajb/troll_spray.jpg
  #102  
Old December 7th 11, 01:48 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
DanS[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,021
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

Gene E. Bloch wrote in
:

On 12/06/2011, DanS posted:
Gene E. Bloch wrote in
:


On 12/02/2011, DanS posted:
Gene E. Bloch wrote in
:
On 12/02/2011, DanS posted:
And now with the whole HP printer exploit that's in
the news, who knows what's going to go on with
printing technologies...maybe there wil be a push
just back to dumb peripherals for most.

News to me. I plead ignorance here and I must check
this out.

http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/29/9076395-
exclusive-millions-of-printers-open-to-devastating-hack
- attack-researchers-say

One quote from the article:
"In that demonstration, a thermal switch shut the
printer down – basically, causing it
to self-destruct".

That tends to destroy the article's credibility for me.
In reality, thermal switches, like fuses, *prevent*
self-destruction...

But that was probably written by the reporter, and he
may have been confused.

Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the
exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain
CIA documents & carry them to the printer so they could
"...use a hijacked printer as a copy machine for
criminals, making it easy to commit identity theft or
even take control of entire networks that would
otherwise be secure", or cause me to carry copied
documents to the post office and mail them to
Petrograd.
I'm not sure.....although, if you have a large size
commercial HP printer/copier, similar tot he one at work
which is a Minolta, not an HP.....it could be one that
has a hard drive on it that stores things it copies and
print, basically forever, until it's overwritten or
purposely erased, usually through some obscure front
panel sequence. It was a big to-do here, when the city's
leased peripherals were traded in, with city document
still on them, on the HD. These could have been just
copiers however, but the possibility stil remains.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...veningnews/mai
n6 412 439.shtml

You didn't address my real question, so I'll requote it
below:

"Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the
exploit can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA
documents & carry them to the printer".


*I've* been trying to figure out how you got anything
about mind control or the CIA out of that article.


(I laughed off that question as outlandish, bizarre, and
over- the-top.)


Perhaps you failed to notice sentences such as these in the
article:


No, I read those.

Many tech articles have ideas/concepts/claims that should be
taken with a grain of salt.


In paragraph one:
"Or use a hijacked printer as a copy machine for criminals,
making it easy to commit identity theft or even take
control of entire networks that would otherwise be secure?"

In paragraph three:
"Printers can be remotely controlled by computer criminals
over the Internet, with the potential to steal personal
information, attack otherwise secure networks and even
cause physical damage, the researchers argue..."

Things that, in my opinion, would require me to go to the
printer or copier and perform certain acts at the behest of
the criminals.


Or *someone* to copy something, and it be stored on the HD.

Based on other replies, it's comletely possible to
access/use/store the copier/printers HD, so if some
malware/spyware got installed on a PC, why couldn't it access
a printer/copier and send all stored documents somewhere ?

Are there internet facing printers that you don't need to be
'in' the network to access ? That's the big question.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off






All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PCbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.