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  #61  
Old December 2nd 11, 07:51 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Gene E. Bloch[_5_]
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Posts: 1,720
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

On 12/01/2011, Wolf K posted:
On 01/12/2011 7:19 PM, BillW50 wrote:
[...]
Have you ever
written a printer driver for Windows before Dan?

[...]


Yes. I even recall inserting escape sequences (ie "driver" instructions) into
text docs so as to make the printer do all kinds of fancy things.


Glad those days are gone.


Wolf K.


I remember inserting escape codes into documents just to make them
print properly!

I'm also glad those days are over.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)


Ads
  #62  
Old December 2nd 11, 08:14 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Zaphod Beeblebrox
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Posts: 868
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks


"Gene E. Bloch" wrote in message
...
On 12/01/2011, Wolf K posted:
On 01/12/2011 7:19 PM, BillW50 wrote:
[...]
Have you ever
written a printer driver for Windows before Dan?

[...]


Yes. I even recall inserting escape sequences (ie "driver"
instructions) into text docs so as to make the printer do all kinds
of fancy things.


Glad those days are gone.


Wolf K.


I remember inserting escape codes into documents just to make them
print properly!

I'm also glad those days are over.

I wish they were for me - there are more businesses out there running
legacy products that still use the old escape control codes than you
might think...

--
Zaphod

Voted "Worst Dressed Sentient Being in the Known Universe" for seven
years in a row.


  #63  
Old December 2nd 11, 11:01 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Bob I
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Posts: 9,943
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks



On 12/2/2011 12:51 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On 12/01/2011, Wolf K posted:
On 01/12/2011 7:19 PM, BillW50 wrote:
[...]
Have you ever
written a printer driver for Windows before Dan?

[...]


Yes. I even recall inserting escape sequences (ie "driver"
instructions) into text docs so as to make the printer do all kinds of
fancy things.


Glad those days are gone.


Wolf K.


I remember inserting escape codes into documents just to make them print
properly!

I'm also glad those days are over.


ASCII art is pretty cool just the same.
  #64  
Old December 2nd 11, 11:05 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
BillW50
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,556
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

In . 97.131,
DanS wrote:
"BillW50" wrote in
:

(Note: Any deleted material does not mean I agree with it.

And again, going from 32 bit to 64 bit. CPUs with new
added instruction sets and other advances in hardware
architecture can require changes to take advantages of it.


OMG! Windows supported 16 bit for almost two decades. Now
the move from 32 to 64 bit, it can't be done anymore? With
the older Microsoft programmers it would happen. But with
the new lazy new programmers, it is not possible.


It wasn't 'lazy programmers', no matter what you say.

It was a business decision.

You can't support 100% of everything forever.

At some point, you have to decide that instead of supporting
100% you can only support 99.9999998% of users(, in relation
to this 16-bit issue.)

Users are crying about Windows 'bloat', and how do you cut
bloat.....by removing things that *virtually noone* uses
anymore.


You claim this, but DOS support is still there and Gates said about 15
years ago it would end. So why is it still there? And back in the DOS
only days, every application needed its own printer driver. Have 10 DOS
applications, you needed 10 printer drivers all for one printer.

Windows changed all of that. Now you only need one printer driver for
one printer and it doesn't matter how many applications you have. And
Windows supporting printer drivers from different versions of Windows is
a cakewalk. Far easier than supporting DOS. And I see no reason
(hardware or software wise) why Windows can't support printer drivers
from any version of Windows. Printer drivers are not all that complex.

And now with the whole HP printer exploit that's in the
news, who knows what's going to go on with printing
technologies...maybe there wil be a push just back to dumb
peripherals for most.


News to me. I plead ignorance here and I must check this
out.


http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/29/9076395-
exclusive-millions-of-printers-open-to-devastating-hack-
attack-researchers-say


Interesting. But that problem has always been there. As any device that
is firmware upgradeable is at risk. Cell phones, MP3 players, external
drives, etc., even my old Palm IIIc.

Since most of the old people at Microsoft has retired.
The new replacements just don't know any better. And I
see Microsoft getting into trouble because of this.
Even Microsoft had to layoff people in recent times
because of this (the first time in history).

I'm sure the layoffs were just like every other company
on Earth, the economy.....

In today's world, people can't live without computers.
Far different than just a few decades earlier. And
computers are not going away soon. And if Microsoft can't
convince the masses that newer is better, then they have
to have layoffs. Just the same as it was decades ago.
Remember WordStar and Lotus? The economy was great back
then but they couldn't convince the masses either.

Sure I remember Wordstar and Lotus, and bunches of other
s/w companies, but Wordstar was one of how many word
processor packages available ? Yes, they are gone because
MS created an Office Suite that was lower cost, that was a
viable package for most, so people stopped buying the
really expensive 3rd party Word Processors.


No! At the peak, upper management fired all of the
programmers because they thought they were big enough they
didn't need them anymore. As now they thought they could
hire people far cheaper than they had. Like always it
didn't work and they went under.


That may be so, but, this article:

(About spreadsheets, but the same applies)

http://www.utd.edu/~liebowit/book/sheets/sheet.html

...ends with the conclusion of......"The long-term winner in
this battle is Microsoft, which can unload Windows plus Excel
for such a low site-license price that few companies can
resist."

It doesn't matter *why* the other the others failed, they
failed.

Looks like the Lotus failure was just anojther bad business
decision....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Software

...."Although SmartSuite was bundled cheaply with many PCs and
may initially have been more popular than Microsoft Office,
Lotus quickly lost its dominance in the desktop applications
market with the transition to 32 bit applications running on
Windows 95. In large part due to its focusing much of its
development resources on a suite of applications for IBM's
then new (and eventually a market failure) OS/2 operating
system, Lotus was late in delivering its suite of 32 bit
products and failed to capitalize on the transition to the new
version of Windows. It now has very little market share."....


Exactly! That is what I am talking about. Watching all of this unfolding
over the decades I can see clearly the writing on the wall for some
companies based on the decisions a given company makes. Thus why my
concern about Microsoft. As they generally made the right decisions in
the past. But the old people were employed back then too. Nowadays the
old gang has retired. And the new people doesn't know how to make the
right decisions.

There are only 3 OSs now that are viable for everyday
use.......Windows, Linux and OSX (MAC).


There are many that tried to get into the game. Although I
see a big turning point and nobody is giving what people
want. So the door is wide open for even a startup to step
in.

The last two releases of Windows...Vista, and 7, sold more
copies faster than each preceeding release.


Really? MS Bob and ME were Microsoft's big flops.


And this means what, that people dumped MS like hot potato ?

Obviously not.


Since Windows is included with about 90% of PCs. And since computer
sales are increasing every year. It is a given that the newest version
of Windows is going have the highest sales figures compared to earlier
releases. This is a given and should come as no surprise to anybody.
Some call this as the Microsoft tax.

And I never saw Vista as being very exciting. Filled with bugs and
all. And Windows 7 is doing far better being as the Vista bug fixed
version.


And that's all I see it as.

Buy anyway, you have your opinion, I have mine. We can
leave it at that.


Lots of company are starving for cash. Microsoft is
different since they have billions in the bank. They don't
need to sell any stock whatsoever.


And so are others.....

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/...rantz/2011-07-
20-companies-with-the-most-cash_n.htm

...and all still laying off people.


If Vista and Windows 7 sold so well, why the layoffs?

You can say what you want, but you can't change the truth. And the
only danger Microsoft has is they lost all of the programmers who has
learned the hard lessons from the past. As the new programmers don't
have a clue.


Well, I'm assuming by 'programmers' you are talking about the
heads of individual programs...the one's that *actually make
the decisions* of what is or isn't included in whatever. The
people that actually do the programming, do what they are
told.....unless you think the 24-year old first year out of
college CS graduate is making the decisions of what goes or
doesn't go into Windows.


No, I see programming much like an art form. Sure anybody can take a
paint brush and paint a painting. Although few can do very well at it
while most can't. The same is true of programming to a certain extent.
The original group of OS programmers had experience programming DOS,
UNIX, Windows, OS/2, etc. And having all of this experience just made
Windows much better. They also had their share of failures and survived.
The new programmers doesn't have any of this experience. So they are
going to make mistakes that the older retired group wouldn't make. And
this time around, Microsoft might not survive such mistakes.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core Duo T2400 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP3


  #65  
Old December 3rd 11, 04:56 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
DanS[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,021
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

Gene E. Bloch wrote in
:

On 12/02/2011, DanS posted:
And now with the whole HP printer exploit that's in the
news, who knows what's going to go on with printing
technologies...maybe there wil be a push just back to
dumb peripherals for most.

News to me. I plead ignorance here and I must check this
out.


http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/29/9076395-
exclusive-millions-of-printers-open-to-devastating-hack-
attack-researchers-say


One quote from the article:
"In that demonstration, a thermal switch shut the printer
down – basically, causing it to self-destruct".

That tends to destroy the article's credibility for me. In
reality, thermal switches, like fuses, *prevent*
self-destruction...

But that was probably written by the reporter, and he may
have been confused.

Beyond that, I've been trying to figure out how the exploit
can take control of me and cause me to obtain CIA documents
& carry them to the printer so they could "...use a
hijacked printer as a copy machine for criminals, making it
easy to commit identity theft or even take control of
entire networks that would otherwise be secure", or cause
me to carry copied documents to the post office and mail
them to Petrograd.


I'm not sure.....although, if you have a large size commercial
HP printer/copier, similar tot he one at work which is a
Minolta, not an HP.....it could be one that has a hard drive
on it that stores things it copies and print, basically
forever, until it's overwritten or purposely erased, usually
through some obscure front panel sequence.

It was a big to-do here, when the city's leased peripherals
were traded in, with city document still on them, on the HD.
These could have been just copiers however, but the
possibility stil remains.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...gnews/main6412
439.shtml



  #66  
Old December 3rd 11, 02:43 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,291
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

In message 31, DanS
writes:
"BillW50" wrote in
:

(Note: Any deleted material does not mean I agree with it.

And again, going from 32 bit to 64 bit. CPUs with new
added instruction sets and other advances in hardware
architecture can require changes to take advantages of it.


OMG! Windows supported 16 bit for almost two decades. Now
the move from 32 to 64 bit, it can't be done anymore? With
the older Microsoft programmers it would happen. But with
the new lazy new programmers, it is not possible.


It wasn't 'lazy programmers', no matter what you say.

It was a business decision.


It's a bit of a combination of both. It takes a non-zero amount more
effort to make something backwards-compatible than not to; if the choice
is between maintaining backwards compatibility and adding new features
(let alone fixing bugs), and your programming resources are finite, it
can indeed be a business decision: you hope you will attract more new
users with your new features than lose old users.

You can't support 100% of everything forever.

At some point, you have to decide that instead of supporting
100% you can only support 99.9999998% of users(, in relation
to this 16-bit issue.)


However, I think supporting older device drivers _as a whole_ - i. e.
the _family_ of them - isn't a 0.0000002% of users issue. Writing a new
OS so that it doesn't _work with_ older drivers _is_ lazy - not
necessarily lazy programming, lazy business decision, as in "if we drop
support for older drivers, we'll not even have to _think_ about it in
future in our board meetings".

Users are crying about Windows 'bloat', and how do you cut
bloat.....by removing things that *virtually noone* uses
anymore.

As opposed to adding things that "virtually no-one" (note the hyphen)
wants?

Ideally, software should be a whole lot more modular, so you only have
to buy (or at least install) the bits you want. But that's not
attractive from the business point of view, as they want to be able to
keep selling the whole suite every time. (It's not exclusive to
softwa if I buy a new TV, for example, it is likely to include
facilities I no longer not only probably don't want anyway, but also
already have in the devices I'll be connecting to it.)
[]
There are only 3 OSs now that are viable for everyday
use.......Windows, Linux and OSX (MAC).


I'd eve say that for the man in the street it's only the first and third
two: for whatever reason, all the main (US) or high (UK) street stores
(in UK, that's PCWorld/Currys, Comet, Tesco, Sainsbury, John Lewis,
Selfridges, even ToysRUs ...) do _not_ sell Linux-based computers in the
mainstream, though will occasionally sell some _devices_ that are Linux
inside (but not mention it, and have no need to as it's embedded).

There are many that tried to get into the game. Although I
see a big turning point and nobody is giving what people
want. So the door is wide open for even a startup to step
in.


I can't see any new OS taking off in the real world: it'd have to run
Windows and/or Mac applications or not enough people would buy it for it
to be anything but a novelty for geeks. It's not that M$/Apple now even
have to apply their (undoubtably significant) marketing force: they're
just _there_ in such a big way that nothing can shift them. OK, some of
the developments via the mobile and tablet markets are likely to have an
effect - but I suspect it's going to be more that Microsoft and Apple
incorporate ideas from those areas, rather than that those are going to
replace M/A. (There is the _possibility_ that computers as we know them
- desktops and laptops/netbooks - will themselves become the exception,
with most people using very portable devices, but I don't think so for
at least 5 years.)
[]
You can say what you
want, but you can't change the truth. And the only danger
Microsoft has is they lost all of the programmers who has
learned the hard lessons from the past. As the new
programmers don't have a clue.


Well, I'm assuming by 'programmers' you are talking about the
heads of individual programs...the one's that *actually make
the decisions* of what is or isn't included in whatever. The
people that actually do the programming, do what they are
told.....unless you think the 24-year old first year out of
college CS graduate is making the decisions of what goes or
doesn't go into Windows.


No, but the person making the decisions may well be a 2x-year-old fresh
out of business school. (Not that that _necessarily_ means s/he'll make
_wrong_ decisions, though we oldies [BillW50, does the 50 signify
something?] may tend to think they tend to be _hasty_ decisions.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... his charming, bumbling best, a serial monogamist terrified of commitment,
who comes across as a sort of Bertie Wooster but with a measurable IQ. - Barry
Norman on Hugh Grant's persona in certain films, Radio Times 3-9 July 2010
  #67  
Old December 3rd 11, 02:51 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,291
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

In message , SC Tom writes:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message 31,
DanS writes:
[]
And again, going from 32 bit to 64 bit. CPUs with new added
instruction sets and other advances in hardware architecture
can require changes to take advantages of it.

[]
Yes, but _take advantage of_ is the significant phrase. You should
still be able to run existing software (in the case under discussion,
printer drivers); if it doesn't _take advantage of_ the new features,
that's your problem.

If I had a car that could do 200 miles per hour, I would accept that
I might have to pay for access to places where I could take advantage
of that capability; however, I'd be pretty peeved if I _couldn't_
drive it on ordinary roads (and, obviously, I'd accept that I
couldn't do 200 on them).


Sort of a bad analogy; there are plenty of cars that will go 200MPH,
but you can't drive them on regular roads without a lot of
modifications (Nascar racers), and some that wouldn't be legal no
matter what you did to them (drag racers come to mind). But I get your
point :-)


OK - when I said "car", I meant "street legal car", not grand prix
engine-on-wheels (-:! There are plenty of "supercars" that can do a lot
higher speeds than are legal in UK or US (in fact I think hardly any car
on sale today can't exceed those speeds), but are still usable on
ordinary roads. But you got my point, which was that if I bought such a
car, I'd at least expect to be able to use it. So if I buy a super new
computer with the latest OS, I'm more than a bit cross that I can't use
much software and hardware I already own: I don't expect to get the
benefit of all the new whizzy bits of my new machine and OS when running
older hardware and software (though actually I do expect it to do so
somewhat faster than the previous machine), but I do expect to be able
to use it - and I don't see why I shouldn't be able to.

Another car analogy might be one that runs on a special fuel. Now in
that case, I _would_ expect to have to hunt for filling stations that
had that fuel. But that would be like buying a Linux or Mac computer/OS:
I'd know I would have to replace a lot of my software, and I'd know that
from before I bought the new toy.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... his charming, bumbling best, a serial monogamist terrified of commitment,
who comes across as a sort of Bertie Wooster but with a measurable IQ. - Barry
Norman on Hugh Grant's persona in certain films, Radio Times 3-9 July 2010
  #68  
Old December 3rd 11, 03:18 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Wolf K
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default Copier & printer security (Was: ! Windows 7 Sucks)

On 02/12/2011 10:56 PM, DanS wrote:
[snip] if you have a large size commercial
HP printer/copier, similar tot he one at work which is a
Minolta, not an HP.....it could be one that has a hard drive
on it that stores things it copies and print, basically
forever, until it's overwritten or purposely erased, usually
through some obscure front panel sequence.

It was a big to-do here, when the city's leased peripherals
were traded in, with city document still on them, on the HD.
These could have been just copiers however, but the
possibility stil remains.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...gnews/main6412
439.shtml


Bottom line: printer security is not an issue IMO. (But network security
is.)

Many (pretty well all older) office type copier/printer/mufti-function
machines have hard drives (1), used to store the copy/print image while
multiple copies are made. Eventually the HDD fills up and FIFO takes
over as new print/copy jobs are done. Any security issue would arise at
a recycling depot where the machine is taken apart. The HDD could be
attached to a computer and its contents read. Forestall that by removing
it before sending the machine to the dumpster.

I note that the story that caused such a flurry was about using a glitch
in the printer's firmware to make the printer overheat. I don't see any
way to get data out of the machine without a hack of the printer's
firmware so that the printer sends the contents of the HDD to the
computer used to hack it. Considering there are so many easier ways to
get "sensitive data", including the good old cold-cash-in-greasy-palm
method, that I think it's hardly worth the trouble. But why bother?
Using a zombie to send print-job data to unauthorised recipients is just
another application, so to speak.

(1) I've noticed that recent ads for printers list how much RAM they have.

HTH
Wolf K.


  #69  
Old December 3rd 11, 03:18 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
DanS[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,021
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

In message , SC Tom
writes:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote
in message ...
In message
31,
DanS
writes:
[]
And again, going from 32 bit to 64 bit. CPUs with new
added instruction sets and other advances in hardware
architecture can require changes to take advantages of
it.
[]
Yes, but _take advantage of_ is the significant phrase.
You should
still be able to run existing software (in the case under
discussion, printer drivers); if it doesn't _take
advantage of_ the new features, that's your problem.

If I had a car that could do 200 miles per hour, I would
accept that
I might have to pay for access to places where I could
take advantage of that capability; however, I'd be pretty
peeved if I _couldn't_ drive it on ordinary roads (and,
obviously, I'd accept that I couldn't do 200 on them).


Sort of a bad analogy; there are plenty of cars that will
go 200MPH, but you can't drive them on regular roads
without a lot of modifications (Nascar racers), and some
that wouldn't be legal no matter what you did to them (drag
racers come to mind). But I get your point :-)


OK - when I said "car", I meant "street legal car", not
grand prix engine-on-wheels (-:! There are plenty of
"supercars" that can do a lot higher speeds than are legal
in UK or US (in fact I think hardly any car on sale today
can't exceed those speeds), but are still usable on
ordinary roads. But you got my point, which was that if I
bought such a car, I'd at least expect to be able to use
it. So if I buy a super new computer with the latest OS,
I'm more than a bit cross that I can't use much software
and hardware I already own: I don't expect to get the
benefit of all the new whizzy bits of my new machine and OS
when running older hardware and software (though actually I
do expect it to do so somewhat faster than the previous
machine), but I do expect to be able to use it - and I
don't see why I shouldn't be able to.


OK, so with complete honesty, how much s/w have you actually
had to replace because it *really* wouldn't run, in any way
shape of form, from a Windows OS upgrade. (Hardware drivers
aside.)



  #70  
Old December 3rd 11, 03:33 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Wolf K
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default Modularity (Was: ! Windows 7 Sucks)

On 03/12/2011 8:43 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
[snip]
Ideally, software should be a whole lot more modular, so you only have
to buy (or at least install) the bits you want. But that's not
attractive from the business point of view, as they want to be able to
keep selling the whole suite every time. (It's not exclusive to
softwa if I buy a new TV, for example, it is likely to include
facilities I no longer not only probably don't want anyway, but also
already have in the devices I'll be connecting to it.)


True, but it's cheaper to include those bits and capabilities on all TVs
than to offer a slew of models with different combinations of them. One
of the costs (underestimated by the consumer for sure) is that of
selling off or trashing product that doesn't appeal to enough customers.
Estimates of such costs are of course built into all prices, so that
all products cost more than they need to.

From my POV, TVs and graphics cards should have more standard features,
whether the buyer uses them or not. Eg, I'm looking for a medium sized
TV for my son that can double as a monitor, so as not over-clutter his
small apartment, so I want DVI. Hard to find, oddly enough, but VGA is
pretty well universal. I've passed on a number of laptop deals recently
(I "need" a new one ;-0 ) because they didn't have HDMI outputs.

See?

Wolf K.

  #71  
Old December 3rd 11, 03:35 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Wolf K
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

On 03/12/2011 9:18 AM, DanS wrote:
[snip]
OK, so with complete honesty, how much s/w have you actually
had to replace because it *really* wouldn't run, in any way
shape of form, from a Windows OS upgrade. (Hardware drivers
aside.)


I'll have to update my preferred office suite soon, at a cost, as recent
W7 updates have made it flakey. Bah!

Wolf K.

  #72  
Old December 3rd 11, 04:23 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Stephen Wolstenholme[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 147
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 13:43:28 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

Ideally, software should be a whole lot more modular, so you only have
to buy (or at least install) the bits you want.


I have been involved with the production of modular software. It needs
to be built into a common structure. The software I was involved with
had thousands of modules and a "collector" system to put it all
together before releasing to the customer. That worked very well but
if it needed to be released in bits that the customer wanted it would
have needed a collector system with every customer. It's much easier
to give them the lot and tell them how to enable on the extra bits
they buy.

Steve

--
Neural network software applications, help and support.

Neural Network Software. www.npsl1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. www.justnn.com

  #73  
Old December 3rd 11, 04:31 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
DanS[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,021
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

In message
31, DanS
writes:
"BillW50" wrote in
:

(Note: Any deleted material does not mean I agree with it.

And again, going from 32 bit to 64 bit. CPUs with new
added instruction sets and other advances in hardware
architecture can require changes to take advantages of
it.

OMG! Windows supported 16 bit for almost two decades. Now
the move from 32 to 64 bit, it can't be done anymore?
With the older Microsoft programmers it would happen. But
with the new lazy new programmers, it is not possible.


It wasn't 'lazy programmers', no matter what you say.f

It was a business decision.


It's a bit of a combination of both. It takes a non-zero
amount more effort to make something backwards-compatible
than not to; if the choice is between maintaining backwards
compatibility and adding new features (let alone fixing
bugs), and your programming resources are finite, it can
indeed be a business decision: you hope you will attract
more new users with your new features than lose old users.

You can't support 100% of everything forever.

At some point, you have to decide that instead of
supporting 100% you can only support 99.9999998% of users(,
in relation to this 16-bit issue.)


However, I think supporting older device drivers _as a
whole_ - i. e. the _family_ of them - isn't a 0.0000002% of
users issue. Writing a new OS so that it doesn't _work
with_ older drivers _is_ lazy - not necessarily lazy
programming, lazy business decision, as in "if we drop
support for older drivers, we'll not even have to _think_
about it in future in our board meetings".

Users are crying about Windows 'bloat', and how do you cut
bloat.....by removing things that *virtually noone* uses
anymore.

As opposed to adding things that "virtually no-one" (note
the hyphen) wants?


Why point out a typo, when you actually have ideas to convey?

(A third of time it comes out like that, antoher 1/3 it's
'none' and the other third is 'no one'. It's because I'm *not*
a typer, and my brain works faster than my fingers do,
skipping letters and appearing dyslexic, like the 'antoher'
typo I left above purposely.)


Ideally, software should be a whole lot more modular, so
you only have to buy (or at least install) the bits you
want. But that's not attractive from the business point of
view, as they want to be able to keep selling the whole
suite every time.


Of course. They're in business to sell s/w.


(It's not exclusive to softwa if I buy
a new TV, for example, it is likely to include facilities I
no longer not only probably don't want anyway, but also
already have in the devices I'll be connecting to it.) []
There are only 3 OSs now that are viable for everyday
use.......Windows, Linux and OSX (MAC).


I'd eve say that for the man in the street it's only the
first and third two: for whatever reason, all the main (US)
or high (UK) street stores (in UK, that's PCWorld/Currys,
Comet, Tesco, Sainsbury, John Lewis, Selfridges, even
ToysRUs ...) do _not_ sell Linux-based computers in the
mainstream, though will occasionally sell some _devices_
that are Linux inside (but not mention it, and have no need
to as it's embedded).


Well, my list of wasn't in any particular order.



There are many that tried to get into the game. Although
I see a big turning point and nobody is giving what
people want. So the door is wide open for even a startup
to step in.


I can't see any new OS taking off in the real world: it'd
have to run Windows and/or Mac applications or not enough
people would buy it for it to be anything but a novelty for
geeks.


Like Linux ? (Don't let *them* hear you say that...wait, that
was me that said that. I run Linux too, 1/2 the time.)

As a desktop OS, Linux is comletely useable now, for a
*typical home user*, except that 1) you need to make sure the
hardware will work, and two, 2) you'd need to learn new
troubleshooting and repair techniques, 3) some of your s/w
would need to be replaced, which would require some investment
in time to familiarize yourself with it. *Some* of the most
common home user apps are produced for Linux and Windows,
Firefox and Thunderbird spring to mind immediately. Dropbox,
Skype (although the Linux version really does s*ck), Nero,
OpenOffice/LibreOffice, GIMP, Filezilla, Opera, Pidgin.

My dual boot uses the same user profiles for Thunderbird and
Firefox, so no matter which OS I boot into, I'v got the same
user data in both. I see the same mail, same favorites, etc.

Linux does run some Windows s/w using WINE,


It's not that M$/Apple now even have to apply their
(undoubtably significant) marketing force: they're just
_there_ in such a big way that nothing can shift them.


At least not over a truly significant span of time. Since car
analogies are common.....

....Toyota....1958, the first year Toyota began exporting to
the US. 287 cars. At that time, I believe GM ws the hands-down
winner for auto sales.

....Toyota....2009, Toyota Overtakes GM as Number One in Sales

It took over 50 years, but it was done.

(I know, not a truly valid analogy, since the cars don't need
to interop with other cars, but still.)

OK,
some of the developments via the mobile and tablet markets
are likely to have an effect - but I suspect it's going to
be more that Microsoft and Apple incorporate ideas from
those areas, rather than that those are going to replace
M/A. (There is the _possibility_ that computers as we know
them - desktops and laptops/netbooks - will themselves
become the exception, with most people using very portable
devices, but I don't think so for at least 5 years.)
[]
You can say what you
want, but you can't change the truth. And the only danger
Microsoft has is they lost all of the programmers who has
learned the hard lessons from the past. As the new
programmers don't have a clue.


Well, I'm assuming by 'programmers' you are talking about
the heads of individual programs...the one's that *actually
make the decisions* of what is or isn't included in
whatever. The people that actually do the programming, do
what they are told.....unless you think the 24-year old
first year out of college CS graduate is making the
decisions of what goes or doesn't go into Windows.


No, but the person making the decisions may well be a
2x-year-old fresh out of business school.


And, at MS, specifically, are they ?....
----------------------------------------
"Steven Sinofsky (born 1965[1]) has been the President of the
Windows Division at Microsoft since September 2008,
responsible for the development and marketing of Windows,
Windows Live, and Internet Explorer.".....

......In July 1989, Sinofsky joined Microsoft as a software
design engineer.....

You, and BillW50 can read more he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Sinofsky

but, he's *certainly* not NEW, and has been on-board MS
through the *entire* PC explosion, 3.1 through Windows7 and
now going into Windows 8.

(Not as the head of Windows the entire time, but as a point to
show that those 'running the show' certainly aren't brand-
spanking new 'lazy programmers'. )

--------------------------------------------

Newly appointed head of 'Server & Tools Business'

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/nadella/

Is this *another* one of BillW50's 'lazy programmers'?

....."Nadella joined Microsoft in 1992."

---------------------------------------------

Seems as though the people that *are* making the decisions
aren't new young "programmers" that don't have a clue.


(Not that that
_necessarily_ means s/he'll make _wrong_ decisions, though
we oldies....

[BillW50, does the 50 signify something?] may

So the reason I'm not a typer, is because I'm not far behind
that. Nowadays, 'Typing' is called 'Keyboarding'. When I was
in school, 'Typing' was for girls. There was uproar among my
class when in 6th grade, the boys were forced to do a 1/2 year
of 'Home Ec.' and the girls to do a 1/2 year of 'Shop'. (That
was, until we boys realized most of the 'Home Ec' course, for
the boys version of it anyway, consisted of making and eating
food.)

I've been programming since my first C64 back in the
80's....had 8-tracks, watched black and white TV at times,
lived through and hated disco, watched with horror with the
rise of the front-wheel drive car as the standard, etc.

tend to think they tend to be _hasty_ decisions.)


They can be. MS has made many bad decisions before, like Bob
and Me, that BillW50 pointed out, but they seem to have
recovered from those, haven't they......

.....many thought that the time for MS to fall was with the
release of Vista....expecting large numbers to bail and seek
refuge in MAC/OSX and Linux.....and it just didn't happen.

....not that it won't, in 20 or 30 *more* years.....

  #74  
Old December 3rd 11, 04:33 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
DanS[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,021
Default ! Windows 7 Sucks

Wolf K wrote in
m:

On 03/12/2011 9:18 AM, DanS wrote:
[snip]
OK, so with complete honesty, how much s/w have you
actually had to replace because it *really* wouldn't run,
in any way shape of form, from a Windows OS upgrade.
(Hardware drivers aside.)


I'll have to update my preferred office suite soon, at a
cost, as recent W7 updates have made it flakey. Bah!


That could just be another update away from a fix.

The point was, XP to Vista, or Vista to 7 mainly.
  #75  
Old December 3rd 11, 04:46 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
DanS[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,021
Default Copier & printer security (Was: ! Windows 7 Sucks)

Wolf K wrote in
om:

On 02/12/2011 10:56 PM, DanS wrote:
[snip] if you have a large size commercial
HP printer/copier, similar tot he one at work which is a
Minolta, not an HP.....it could be one that has a hard
drive on it that stores things it copies and print,
basically forever, until it's overwritten or purposely
erased, usually through some obscure front panel sequence.

It was a big to-do here, when the city's leased
peripherals were traded in, with city document still on
them, on the HD. These could have been just copiers
however, but the possibility stil remains.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...ningnews/main6
412 439.shtml


Bottom line: printer security is not an issue IMO. (But
network security is.)

Many (pretty well all older) office type
copier/printer/mufti-function machines have hard drives
(1), used to store the copy/print image while multiple
copies are made. Eventually the HDD fills up and FIFO takes
over as new print/copy jobs are done. Any security issue
would arise at a recycling depot where the machine is taken
apart. The HDD could be attached to a computer and its
contents read. Forestall that by removing it before sending
the machine to the dumpster.

I note that the story that caused such a flurry was about
using a glitch in the printer's firmware to make the
printer overheat.


This is true. But, it all starts somewhere.

I don't see any way to get data out of
the machine without a hack of the printer's firmware so
that the printer sends the contents of the HDD to the
computer used to hack it.


Which may or may not could be done. I don't have an intimate
knowledge of what is required for a printer/copier firmware
update. As I said, it all starts somewhere. "Super Anti-virus
2009" wasn't the first virus/whatever to appear.

Not sure of the accuracy, but.....

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/17/c...irst-computer-
virus-is-40-years-young-today/

........."Creeper (named after a character in the old Scooby
Doo cartoons) spread from BBN Technologies' DEC PDP-10 through
Arpanet, displaying the message: "I'm the creeper, catch me if
you can!" and messing with people's printers."

Now isn't *that* bizarre!!!!!!!!

It messed with your printer!!!!!


Considering there are so many
easier ways to get "sensitive data", including the good old
cold-cash-in-greasy-palm method, that I think it's hardly
worth the trouble. But why bother?


People do stuff all the time, just because they can.

 




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