Is this any good?

On 01/15/2019 6:14 PM, Paul wrote:
David B. wrote:
On 15/01/2019 22:56, Paul wrote:
Big Al wrote:
On 1/15/19 3:21 PM, Paul wrote:
The antenna I built here, someone wrote an "optimizer" that
adjusted antenna elements and evaluated performance each time

OT.Â* But what the hell do you do for a living?Â*Â* Not complaining as
your replies are very chocked full of info.Â*Â*Â* PCs, now antennas and
more I've seen.

Al


I'm a retired EE.

But with a bit of a science background.

Â*Â*Â* Paul

???Â* https://ee.co.ukÂ* ???


Just keep scrolling until you find it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EE

Electrical Engineering.

I was designing electronics before I got the parchment.
I made a profession out of a hobby, but not right away.

Â*Â* Paul

Sorta like a Canadian *Steve Wozniak* . :-)

Rene

Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 01/15/2019 6:14 PM, Paul wrote:
David B. wrote:
On 15/01/2019 22:56, Paul wrote:
Big Al wrote:
On 1/15/19 3:21 PM, Paul wrote:
The antenna I built here, someone wrote an "optimizer" that
adjusted antenna elements and evaluated performance each time

OT. But what the hell do you do for a living? Not complaining as
your replies are very chocked full of info. PCs, now antennas
and more I've seen.

Al


I'm a retired EE.

But with a bit of a science background.

Paul

??? https://ee.co.uk ???


Just keep scrolling until you find it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EE

Electrical Engineering.

I was designing electronics before I got the parchment.
I made a profession out of a hobby, but not right away.

Paul

Sorta like a Canadian *Steve Wozniak* . :-)

Rene


Actually, I met a guy at the Computer Club (defunct), who was
very much like a Steve Ciarcia (Byte Magazine).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Ciarcia

I also worked on a project the Computer Club guy designed,
but never had to contact him for that one (he spent three
days on it, everyone else spent years on it). He was able
to do *one electronics project per month*, and no other
person in the club could come even remotely close to
keeping up. His official job was with some military
related industry. He had (presumably) more than one assistant
who built up prototypes.

People like that eventually burn out, because they get bored.

I didn't have any *on-topic* materials for the club.

It would be sorta like if I wanted to contribute to
RPi. They've done a ton of work so far, and it would
take me forever to catch up. You have to do work that
"aligns" with the status quo, to expect it to be
accepted or used. Like if there's an official way to
do motor control, you want your widget to "just work"
with it.

Paul

On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 16:55:47 -0700, XS11E
wrote:

HW wrote:

https://www.freeseetv.com/tvfix/en/

It should work but it's a bit pricy. Over the air TV depends on where
you are some areas any old rabbit ears work well, other areas require a
VERY good antenna.

I'm in Phoenix, Arizona and I use this:

https://www.amazon.com/RCA-Multi-Dir...igital-Indoor-
Antenna/dp/B0027FZQ1E/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1547596238&sr=8-
18&keywords=rca+tv+antenna+indoor

OR https://tinyurl.com/ybret529

This allows me to get all the local OTA channels but I got only about 4
or 5 before I moved so who knows?

I'd find an old rabbit ears and see what channels you can get, good
luck!

The best antennas are still the single-direction ones like the DB2E. I
use one of those on the bottom floor of my condo and get great
reception but got a Flex antenna from AntennasDirect which is
multidirectional and gets signals up to 80+ miles. I'd recommend that
one simply because of the multidirectional aspect but it's pricey.

On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 23:23:01 +0000, "David B." "David
wrote:

On 15/01/2019 22:56, Paul wrote:
Big Al wrote:
On 1/15/19 3:21 PM, Paul wrote:
The antenna I built here, someone wrote an "optimizer" that
adjusted antenna elements and evaluated performance each time

OT.* But what the hell do you do for a living?** Not complaining as
your replies are very chocked full of info.*** PCs, now antennas and
more I've seen.

Al


I'm a retired EE.

But with a bit of a science background.

** Paul

??? https://ee.co.uk ???

The wheels are turning, eh? Find a website that looks like a good fit,
(that one is not), find a 'rogues gallery' photo, find someone in the
photo named Paul, ask Paul "Is THIS you?", then go on a fishing
expedition from there. The life of a stalker is not an easy one.

On 01/15/2019 7:23 PM, Paul wrote:
Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 01/15/2019 6:14 PM, Paul wrote:
David B. wrote:
On 15/01/2019 22:56, Paul wrote:
Big Al wrote:
On 1/15/19 3:21 PM, Paul wrote:
The antenna I built here, someone wrote an "optimizer" that
adjusted antenna elements and evaluated performance each time

OT.Â* But what the hell do you do for a living?Â*Â* Not complaining
as your replies are very chocked full of info.Â*Â*Â* PCs, now
antennas and more I've seen.

Al


I'm a retired EE.

But with a bit of a science background.

Â*Â*Â* Paul

???Â* https://ee.co.ukÂ* ???


Just keep scrolling until you find it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EE

Electrical Engineering.

I was designing electronics before I got the parchment.
I made a profession out of a hobby, but not right away.

Â*Â*Â* Paul

Sorta like a Canadian *Steve Wozniak* . :-)

Rene


Actually, I met a guy at the Computer Club (defunct), who was
very much like a Steve Ciarcia (Byte Magazine).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Ciarcia

I also worked on a project the Computer Club guy designed,
but never had to contact him for that one (he spent three
days on it, everyone else spent years on it). He was able
to do *one electronics project per month*, and no other
person in the club could come even remotely close to
keeping up. His official job was with some military
related industry. He had (presumably) more than one assistant
who built up prototypes.

People like that eventually burn out, because they get bored.

I didn't have any *on-topic* materials for the club.

It would be sorta like if I wanted to contribute to
RPi. They've done a ton of work so far, and it would
take me forever to catch up. You have to do work that
"aligns" with the status quo, to expect it to be
accepted or used. Like if there's an official way to
do motor control, you want your widget to "just work"
with it.

Â*Â* Paul

I was only ever destined to be a good Power Engineer, very little schooling.
Byte, one of my favorite old Magazines (and the thickest), much great
reading (and adds).

Rene

Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 23:23:01 +0000, "David B." "David
wrote:

On 15/01/2019 22:56, Paul wrote:
Big Al wrote:
On 1/15/19 3:21 PM, Paul wrote:
The antenna I built here, someone wrote an "optimizer" that
adjusted antenna elements and evaluated performance each time
OT. But what the hell do you do for a living? Not complaining as
your replies are very chocked full of info. PCs, now antennas and
more I've seen.

Al

I'm a retired EE.

But with a bit of a science background.

Paul
??? https://ee.co.uk ???

The wheels are turning, eh? Find a website that looks like a good fit,
(that one is not), find a 'rogues gallery' photo, find someone in the
photo named Paul, ask Paul "Is THIS you?", then go on a fishing
expedition from there. The life of a stalker is not an easy one.

I'm ducking down behind my console now, so he can't see me.

Paul

"KenW" wrote |
| Do you know if this gadget works indoors? I don't have an external
| aerial so I need an indoor one to receive FreeView without any extensive
| cables.
|

I don't know what they're charging, but it's just an antenna.
I bought one for $10 at Target. I also have old rabbit ears with
a UHF ring that works just as well. In the US, at least, digital
broadcast TV is now UHF.

On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 22:51:12 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

"KenW" wrote |
| Do you know if this gadget works indoors? I don't have an external
| aerial so I need an indoor one to receive FreeView without any extensive
| cables.
|

I don't know what they're charging, but it's just an antenna.
I bought one for $10 at Target. I also have old rabbit ears with
a UHF ring that works just as well. In the US, at least, digital
broadcast TV is now UHF.

You'd be surprised. I live in Montreal and every Canadian station is
on UHF so they're particularly easy to get wherever you live on the
island or outside. Even the American channels are fairly easy to get
as long as you know where to point the antenna. However, ABC out of
Burlington, Vermont which broadcasts four stations from the same
antenna (ABC, Quest, Laff and Grit) uses VHF-Lo which requires an
additional attachment to most antennas being sold or one of those old,
metallic antennas pointed in the right direction.

"silverslimer" wrote

| You'd be surprised. I live in Montreal and every Canadian station is
| on UHF so they're particularly easy to get wherever you live on the
| island or outside. Even the American channels are fairly easy to get
| as long as you know where to point the antenna. However, ABC out of
| Burlington, Vermont which broadcasts four stations from the same
| antenna (ABC, Quest, Laff and Grit) uses VHF-Lo which requires an
| additional attachment to most antennas being sold or one of those old,
| metallic antennas pointed in the right direction.

I have a brother in NH who I think still uses a giant
rooftop antenna with a motor, to get Providence, VT,
or Canada. They don't have cable. (Or cellphone signals.)
Which seems to be much more common than most urban
people realize.

We used to have one VHF station in Boston, but now I
think they're all UHF. Though I don't really know the reason.

Maybe that's a case for finding old rabbit ears that handle
both. We have two TVs. One's using the newer "plate"
style UHF antenna. One uses old rabbit ears with a UHF ring.
Both pick up about 45 stations. Though I should note that at
least half of those are Spanish, religious, shopping, or spend
most of their time showing commercials for vaginal mesh
implant lawsuits.

I've also seen ads on TV for these new antennae. I found
it somewhat comical. In the few short years that TV antennae
have become rare, apparently it's developed that most people
don't know what they are. So now they're marketed as an
amazing new technology to be sold to cordcutters.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

We used to have one VHF station in Boston, but now I
think they're all UHF. Though I don't really know the reason.

digital tv, although according to the fcc, there are still vhf stations.


I've also seen ads on TV for these new antennae. I found
it somewhat comical. In the few short years that TV antennae
have become rare, apparently it's developed that most people
don't know what they are. So now they're marketed as an
amazing new technology to be sold to cordcutters.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/millenn...g-hack-to-get-
free-tv-the-antenna-1501686958
Millennials Unearth an Amazing Hack to Get Free TV: the Antenna
....
³I was just kind of surprised that this is technology that exists,²
says Mr. Sisco, 28 years old. ³It¹s been awesome. It doesn¹t log out
and it doesn¹t skip.²
....
Carlos Villalobos, 21, who was selling tube-shaped digital antennas
at a swap meet in San Diego recently, says customers often ask if his
$20 to $25 products are legal. ³They don¹t trust me when I say that
these are actually free local channels,² he says.
....
Almost a third of Americans (29%) are unaware local TV is available
free, according to a June survey by the National Association of
Broadcasters, an industry trade group.

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 10:55:43 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

We used to have one VHF station in Boston, but now I
think they're all UHF. Though I don't really know the reason.

digital tv, although according to the fcc, there are still vhf stations.


I've also seen ads on TV for these new antennae. I found
it somewhat comical. In the few short years that TV antennae
have become rare, apparently it's developed that most people
don't know what they are. So now they're marketed as an
amazing new technology to be sold to cordcutters.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/millenn...g-hack-to-get-
free-tv-the-antenna-1501686958
Millennials Unearth an Amazing Hack to Get Free TV: the Antenna
...
³I was just kind of surprised that this is technology that exists,²
says Mr. Sisco, 28 years old. ³It¹s been awesome. It doesn¹t log out
and it doesn¹t skip.²
...
Carlos Villalobos, 21, who was selling tube-shaped digital antennas
at a swap meet in San Diego recently, says customers often ask if his
$20 to $25 products are legal. ³They don¹t trust me when I say that
these are actually free local channels,² he says.
...
Almost a third of Americans (29%) are unaware local TV is available
free, according to a June survey by the National Association of
Broadcasters, an industry trade group.

In this day and age of leftist propaganda and repulsive demands that
the public embrace not only homosexuality but transsexuality and
pedophilia (look up Desmond is Amazing), it's in everyone's benefit to
just cut the cord and limit how much television they watch. It's
literally impossible to watch an awards show or even a sitcom without
someone on screen virtue signaling about how everyone must accept open
borders, 5 year-old boys who think they're little girls and grown men
using the women's washroom because they claim to be women. It's
sickening and the disgust should not be limited to Christians. Anyone
with any kind of moral fibre should reject this trash wholeheartedly
and demand that these monsters be prosecuted.

Mayayana wrote:

I've also seen ads on TV for these new antennae. I found
it somewhat comical. In the few short years that TV antennae
have become rare, apparently it's developed that most people
don't know what they are. So now they're marketed as an
amazing new technology to be sold to cordcutters.

In some countries, your government cares enough to provide
web information on the topic. I suppose this is for countries
where more people are rural or outside the range a lot of people
here would be dealing with.

https://www.acma.gov.au/Citizen/TV-R...antenna-system

I tried to find coverage maps for TV in Canada, and Google wasn't
coughing them up (they used to be available). I wanted a map so I
could make fun of our coverage. We seem to care little on the topic
now. During the digital transition, our government provided $0 to
TV stations to pay for new equipment. And the coverage we have today
reflects that. That's also why they allowed a station with a
channel 6 analog transmitter, to transition to DTV using the
same channel 6 transmitter.

*******

The information I can find on those plastic (fractal) antenna
panels suggest an urban user would likely be pleased with
one, and see enough performance to conclude "it works". Without
it performing miracles for reception. It would make a decent
placebo (i.e. just as good as the rabbit ears I slap on my
distribution here in the house). You need to have some sort
of exposed wire, as just leaving the 75 ohm coaxial connector
on the TV set open to the air, won't couple in enough signal.

In terms of material cost, you can see these fractal samples are cheap
to make. To me, it seems unlikely such a design would match 75
ohms on its own. Maybe the balanced to unbalanced transformer (balun)
is located elsewhere. The impedance of antennas even changes with
frequency, which means an "exact" match at one frequency is a less
than exact match at others. TV is pretty tolerant of that
mismatch (the match doesn't have to be perfect).

https://i.postimg.cc/SKJg5Fjz/cheap-...a-business.jpg

They could also put the fractal panel inside the TV set itself,
but that wouldn't be flexible enough in terms of positioning. There
could be an OTA TV station at an inconvenient location, that
would require rotating the TV set in the living room for best
results. I don't think TV buyers would like that. But making
people pay for a panel separately, is also naughty. As the antenna
panel could be made for $5 and thrown into the box as an accessory.

Paul

On 01/16/2019 11:36 AM, Paul wrote:
Mayayana wrote:

Â* I've also seen ads on TV for these new antennae. I found
it somewhat comical. In the few short years that TV antennae
have become rare, apparently it's developed that most people
don't know what they are. So now they're marketed as an
amazing new technology to be sold to cordcutters.

In some countries, your government cares enough to provide
web information on the topic. I suppose this is for countries
where more people are rural or outside the range a lot of people
here would be dealing with.

https://www.acma.gov.au/Citizen/TV-R...antenna-system


I tried to find coverage maps for TV in Canada, and Google wasn't
coughing them up (they used to be available). I wanted a map so I
could make fun of our coverage. We seem to care little on the topic
now. During the digital transition, our government provided $0 to
TV stations to pay for new equipment. And the coverage we have today
reflects that. That's also why they allowed a station with a
channel 6 analog transmitter, to transition to DTV using the
same channel 6 transmitter.

*******

The information I can find on those plastic (fractal) antenna
panels suggest an urban user would likely be pleased with
one, and see enough performance to conclude "it works". Without
it performing miracles for reception. It would make a decent
placebo (i.e. just as good as the rabbit ears I slap on my
distribution here in the house). You need to have some sort
of exposed wire, as just leaving the 75 ohm coaxial connector
on the TV set open to the air, won't couple in enough signal.

In terms of material cost, you can see these fractal samples are cheap
to make. To me, it seems unlikely such a design would match 75
ohms on its own. Maybe the balanced to unbalanced transformer (balun)
is located elsewhere. The impedance of antennas even changes with
frequency, which means an "exact" match at one frequency is a less
than exact match at others. TV is pretty tolerant of that
mismatch (the match doesn't have to be perfect).

https://i.postimg.cc/SKJg5Fjz/cheap-...a-business.jpg

They could also put the fractal panel inside the TV set itself,
but that wouldn't be flexible enough in terms of positioning. There
could be an OTA TV station at an inconvenient location, that
would require rotating the TV set in the living room for best
results. I don't think TV buyers would like that. But making
people pay for a panel separately, is also naughty. As the antenna
panel could be made for $5 and thrown into the box as an accessory.

Â*Â* Paul

Back in the 1960 to 1968 period I installed a 25 foot guyed mast on the
peak of my 30 foot 2 1/2 story house, T the top of which I installed a
Channel Master rotator and a Channel Master 12 element Yagi antennae
with which I was able to receive 5 VHF channels, The furthest being
Pembina, North Dakota, 75 miles away, a 4 channel amplifier splitter fed
3 TV sets, one of which was a Heathkit 21 inch colour set which I
assembled. Back then the cabling was all 300 ohm twin lead, later
upgraded to 75 ohm RG59 Coax.
The Whole rooftop installation was a major 1 man only job as I had no
one to help, the roof was 45 degree pitch and wooden shingles, kinda
scary at times.

Rene

On 1/15/19 9:51 PM, Mayayana wrote:

[snip]

I don't know what they're charging, but it's just an antenna.
I bought one for $10 at Target. I also have old rabbit ears with
a UHF ring that works just as well. In the US, at least, digital
broadcast TV is now UHF.

MOST is UHF. There is a channel 7 near here (which does actually
broadcast on channel 7, VHF-Hi), and rabbit ears do work for that if
you're close enough to the transmitter.

BTW, most rabbit ears have adjustable length. Short works best for
higher channels and long for lower channels. 7 is near the middle.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Horrible Bug Encountered. No idea what has happened."

On 1/16/19 9:11 AM, Mayayana wrote:

[snip]

I've also seen ads on TV for these new antennae. I found
it somewhat comical. In the few short years that TV antennae
have become rare, apparently it's developed that most people
don't know what they are. So now they're marketed as an
amazing new technology to be sold to cordcutters.

Also, "HD" and "Digital" have nothing to do with antennas.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Horrible Bug Encountered. No idea what has happened."