Tutorial for setting up Ubuntu as a Windows Subsystem for Linux WSL in Windows 10

Mike Easter wrote:
Chris wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:
Chris wrote:
Mike Easter

Now that I understand better about WSL incl wsl2 running a MS invention
resembling a linux kernel, I am even more sure that whatever I want to
do linux, I would be *MUCH* better off doing it in a real linux using a
linux kernel as opposed to whatever thing MS has invented resembling a
linux kernel which is able to run some gnu user space linux ware.

What information is this based on?

Which part?

- wsl2 runs a MS invention resembling a linux kernel?

This bit.

My understanding is that MS took an (old) 4.19 kernel and bent and
twisted and 'optimized' it in some unknown (to me) number of ways. The
goal was for it to still be able to virtually run gnu user space apps
and I guess some services (but not systemd ones) on certain hardware.

I have no skill at being able to interpret how different that kernel is,
but my understanding is that the kernel source is available for
examination/ ie open. So, the bent 4.19 kernel is ALSO frequently
'patched' and I believe those patches are also available/ open.

https://github.com/microsoft/WSL2-Linux-Kernel The source for the Linux
kernel used in Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 (WSL2)

I'm reading that the above MS wsl2 kernel runs in a VM off a virtual
ext4 disk on *some* hardware (Intel VT or AMD-V) to run the gnu
userspace stuff of Ub, Suse, OpenSuse, Debian, Fedora or Kali which have
been modified for such use w/ MS's wsl2 kernel.

From my reading WSL2 is an actual Linux kernel which has been "tuned" to
work in the windows hypervisor and is a bit leaner. I imagine they've
removed all the device drivers which aren't relevant. All seems sensible
and is better than the real kludge that WSL is.

Not really sure what is "bent"? It's 100% compatible.

What is less great is that the kernel will be subject to the vagaries of
Windows update.

The other problem is the slow I/O between the two filesystems. Makes it
less useful for working on windows files.

Arlen Holder wrote:


Note you should likely want to be running WSL2 if you can:
"If you have the Windows 10 build 18917 or higher, you should run WSL2"
https://adamtheautomator.com/windows-subsystem-for-linux/

Only one computer in the house can do this.

What incentive do I have to even turn it on, via Windows Features ?

I select features on computers, that generally "work everywhere".
I don't like to invest in "orphan stuff".

Just because Microsoft is "larding up" this subsystem,
does not increase my "feelings of love" for it. If it
didn't depend on SLAT/EPT, then great, it would run
everywhere that matters.

Paul

On Tue, 19 May 2020 18:46:00 -0400, Paul wrote:

What incentive do I have to even turn it on, via Windows Features ?

Hi Paul,

Since you're almost always purposefully helpful, you're worth my time to
explain why you "might" want to turn WSL on.
o But what I do not know (yet?) is why you might _not_ want to do so!

As you're well aware, use the "Run" box, oh, scores of times a day (if I
mention any semblance of a number, the number trolls will be on me like
stink on a skunk).

Suffice to day I've documented _hundreds_ of quick "Run" commands:
o *Over 250 Start Run commands* (please improve!)
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/cc1lGn3ty0E/DH_FxVCjAAAJ

What Windows Subsystem for Linux enables me to do, is create just 1 mo
o Win+R wsl

Once there, I get scores of commands to add to my "toolbox" repertoire.

For example, after typing "wsl", I instantly get "awk", "sed", "grep",
"!!", "!ls", "col", "tr", "comm", "diff", "tr", "locate", etc.

Now, if you never have a _need_ for such things, then that reason would
vaporize; but I have a need every day it seems for the kind of efficiency
that the Linux command line provides over the DOS command line.

There may be "cons" about "enabling" WSL that I'm not yet aware of, but the
"pro" of enabling Ubuntu in WSL is inherent in the tutorial:
o PRO: It takes a couple of minutes to set it up, and,
o PRO: It takes a split second to get into & out of WSL.

To get in, all you type is:
o Win+R wsl

To get out, all you type is:
o $ exit

Hence, I ask you, what's the "con" of having wsl available to you?
--
Usenet is so much more valuable when people post with helpful intentions.

Arlen Holder wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:

Your priorities in this matter are very different from my own.

The facts are that you can easily install linux/wsl from the command line

- I have no interest in win10 wsl

Me neither.
o My goal is "sed", "awk", "grep", "tr", etc. inside of Windows.

Oh, and "vi", of course!

o The one platform I own that is a compatibility issue is iOS

Luckily, Ubuntu 18.04 handles iOS absolutely perfectly
o There's no need for the iTunes abomination when you have Ubuntu!

There's something "fundamental" about payware M$ Office that's key.
o Since Linux does everything else that Windows does, IMHO, with aplomb.

- because I have plenty of old computers which are mostly not rich in
resources, I also don't use VMs but instead I boot an OS of choice on a
box within 'reach' which is 5, 4 of them on two monitors and kb/mouse w/
KVM switching. 2 more are slightly out of reach

I too have all old computers (they are still BIOS, for example)...

My "hope" is that this new "Linux inside of WSL" is "more convenient" than
o Dual boot with Grub
o Docker
o Cygwin
o Linux inside of VMs
o emulators galore

You left out the best one; the one which I use.

ISTM itseemstome that given what you like to do in linux and that you
have old/other computers around, that somewhere along the way you would
have had a chance to do what I do with a KVM device where such a device
is most commonly a '2 port' KVM as opposed to 3 or more ports.

In my case, I have a lot more PS/2 keyboard/mouse devices, so that is
the basis for my KVM/s. I currently have 2 in use and 1 parked, which
was previously at another station.

You would need to have a KVM device that matches your hardware, ie
either PS/2 or USB. The idea would be that you have your current or
favorite Win10 installed machine on one port and whatever is your 'next
best' machine for the other linux port. That machine could be running
any one of:

- an installed linux distro of your choice, as a dual boot or single
- a live linux distro preferably w/ persistence
- a 'live-ish' linux distro as a 'frugal' install parking a
directory/file on such as a win part, not requiring its own partition as
a dual boot does

The point is that the win machine is booted into win, the linux machine
is booted into a linux, live or installed or frugal.

The KVM permits you to instantly switch from whether the I/O of kb,
mouse, video is working/viewing the Win machine or the linux machine.
Naturally the two machines are also on the same network and able to
share files or partitions or printers or whatever w/ each other.

When you wanted to do linux-y things as you mention above you would be
in a real linux; when you wanted to do Windows-y things such as Word or
whatever, you would be in a real Win. When you wanted to pass something
from a Win to linux or linux to win you would use a shared directory on
either box.

Here's an example of an IO-Gear 2 port KVM PS/2 like the ones I have.
Naturally if your kb/mouse is USB you would choose a USB one instead of
PS/2.
https://www.amazon.com/IOGEAR-2-Port.../dp/B00006IRR8
IOGEAR 2-Port MiniView Micro PS/2 KVM Switch with 2 Cables,

I think the MS WSL stuff is some kind of progress by MS and your efforts
to command install it are too, but I would not swap my own hardware
method for flipping between win & linux for wsl.

--
Mike Easter

On Wed, 20 May 2020 10:22:55 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

I think the MS WSL stuff is some kind of progress by MS and your efforts
to command install it are too, but I would not swap my own hardware
method for flipping between win & linux for wsl.

Hi Mike,
Thanks for continuing to be helpful by expanding the possible use models
where I might, someday, set up a spare machine as a linux _server_ since I
have need for a CalDAV server (which... exist... but suck... on Windows).

For now, I can't even _think_ of a "con" of this WSL setup.
o Seriously... what is the "con"? (I asked Paul the same question)

I'm not at all claiming there isn't a con...
o I just haven't seen it yet.

Normally the con is "complexity" or cost or maintenance, or _something_.
o But I can't even figure out a "con" yet to this WSL inside of Linux.
(for the kinds of things I want to do, which is Linux batch commands)

If you can tell me the con of this method, that would help.

Right now, as far as I can tell, here are the pros:
1. The thing installs in five minutes elapsed time (four c&p commands).
2. Instantly, that gives you the Linux command line inside of Windows.
3. As far as I can tell (so far), when it's off, it's transparent.

But what are the "cons"?
o One of the cons "might" be maintenance, or size?

Dunno, but literally, I don't even know _where_ M$ _put_ the darn thing.
o So far it has been transparent when not in use.

And when I need to munge a file or pipe a few commands, that's easy:
o Win+R wsl
$ comm -23 (sort foo.txt | uniq) (sort bar.txt | uniq)
(this shows the lines which are unique to the first file)
$ comm -12 (sort foo.txt | uniq) (sort bar.txt | uniq)
(this shows the lines which are common to both files)

I could also easily _change_ those lines with Linux, e.g.,
$ comm -23 second-file-sorted.txt first-file-sorted.txt
$ !!:gs/second-file-sorted/foo {i.e., replace one with the other}
$ $ !!:gs/first-file-sorted/bar {i.e., and then do that again}
Which results in the command:
$ comm -23 foo.txt bar.txt

I just did this bang-bang stuff to test it & it worked, which is my point
that much of the Linux finger memory now works inside of Windows.

Therefore, the full force (almost?) of Linux command line is at my
fingertips for the cost of four c&p commands & five minutes elapsed time.

I'm sure there are cons; but I haven't seen them yet.
o What are the cons of installing a WSL Ubuntu in Windows in five minutes?
--
Usenet works best when adults post with purposefully helpful intentions.

Arlen Holder wrote:
Mike Easter wrote:

I think the MS WSL stuff is some kind of progress by MS and your efforts
to command install it are too, but I would not swap my own hardware
method for flipping between win & linux for wsl.

Thanks for continuing to be helpful by expanding the possible use models
where I might, someday, set up a spare machine as a linux _server_ since I
have need for a CalDAV server (which... exist... but suck... on Windows).

For now, I can't even _think_ of a "con" of this WSL setup.
o Seriously... what is the "con"? (I asked Paul the same question)

For me, I only have one machine which has Win10 (a refurb license) and
its hardware I would consider weak:

Lenovo x131e Thinkpad - Win10 Home
Dual core AMD E2-1800 APU with Radeon HD Graphics
Its alleged 4G ram stick is reported as 3.3G, a chunk lost to video;
there is some ram 'missing' that I can't account for. In any case, it
is a lightweight w/ a weak cpu; BUT perfectly fit for running MX Linux
which is my preference for it because of its weakness and because of its
wifi chipset.

Personally I wouldn't choose that for my Win machine OR my linux machine
to flip between; also it is a laptop which doesn't have PS/2 which is
the condition of my KVM/s.

I use other older desktop machines for both my linux and my win.
Because of my 'configuration' and uses, the small amount of time I am in
win is split about evenly between XP (because it has some 'stuff'
attached, a winmodem & phone line, a printer/scanner, and its hdd has
some useful files) and Win7 which has some useful Win USB writing tools
and a USB storage). So, I don't really use Win10; I just occasionally
tinker w/ it as an alternate boot to the MX Linux.

I'm not at all claiming there isn't a con...
o I just haven't seen it yet.

I consider it a con if it isn't of interest to me and I don't need it
and I don't have any reasonable way to run it.

If you can tell me the con of this method, that would help.

See above as it applies to me, not you.

To me, I see this WSL exercise as a route to achieve a goal, which goal
I have achieved another way which I prefer and which works for me, while
the WSL route does NOT work for me nor would I prefer it.

For weighing cons, the con of my KVM/s is the initial hardware cost and
the fact that I run 2 machines at the same time, so some electrons are
spent on that.

However, the savings is that I don't require a more advanced machine to
run a Win10 and I get lots of variety in my choice of linux UI/s.



--
Mike Easter

Mike Easter wrote:
I use other older desktop machines for both my linux and my win. Because
of my 'configuration' and uses, the small amount of time I am in win is
split about evenly between XP (because it has some 'stuff' attached, a
winmodem & phone line, a printer/scanner, and its hdd has some useful
files) and Win7 which has some useful Win USB writing tools and a USB
storage).

And; just to add a little confusion to this 'how I do it' business;
right now the two machines I have running are NOT on the same 2 port
KVM, so I'm instead using two keyboards, mice, and monitors from the
same chair.

On my R is an XP machine doing some duties which mostly involve its USB
printer/scanner and some free utilities which run fine on XP. I am not
'surfing' w/ the old XP or the outdated Chrome browser which is on it.

In front of me is a linux machine which is my 'everyday' preference.
This one happens to be running a current Mint 19.3 Cinnamon (and Firefox
and Thunderbird). Another machine which is currently turned off on the
same KVM might run Win7 when it is booted, or instead it might run any
of a 'host' of different live linux distro/s which are on a 32G USB
stick or off several other USB sticks of various sizes. This machine
which is running the Mint can also boot a Win7 (refurb license) and it
has 8G of ram, so it has some breathing room.



--
Mike Easter

UPDATE:
o *The Windows 10 May 2020 Update is finally now released 5/27/2020*
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/C8uKEw5vIMA

Apparently they're billing WSL2 as part of this update
o Even though you can get it separately, as we covered he

o *Tutorial for setting up Ubuntu as a Windows Subsystem for Linux WSL in Windows 10*
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/rOT8xBWo9dk/pK8Z8ahDAgAJ

This is where they link the WSL2 with this new update:
o *Windows 10 May 2020 Update now available with built-in Linux kernel and Cortana updates*
https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/27/21271655/microsoft-windows-10-may-2020-update-download-available
"Microsoft's next major Windows 10 update includes WSL 2"

"The biggest change to the May 2020 Update is that it includes the
Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 (WSL 2), with a custom-built Linux kernel."

"WSL 2 won't include Linux GUI application support or GPU hardware
acceleration just yet, as Microsoft is promising both of these features
for future Windows updates."
o *Microsoft is bringing Linux GUI apps to Windows 10*
https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/19/21263377/microsoft-windows-10-linux-gui-apps-gpu-acceleration-wsl-features
--
Note that there's almost never anything really useful in any update...
o What can you do on Windows 10 that you can't do on Windows XP or Windows 7?
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/fJBY472ds3E/W539WlUTAwAJ

Dateline today...
"Microsoft's latest Windows Insider preview of Windows 10 cuts out
the Linux kernel for the Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 (WSL2)."

"Microsoft... decided to remove its custom Linux kernel from the
Windows OS image to improve serviceability. The idea was to let
Windows handle kernel updates like other driver updates via
Windows Update to ensure the kernel is kept current."

o New Windows 10 preview drops WSL2 Linux kernel
(adds AMD nested virtualization)
https://www.zdnet.com/article/new-windows-10-preview-drops-wsl2-linux-kernel-adds-amd-nested-virtualization/

"Windows 10 users can run the Linux distribution of their choice"

"This preview build also brings support for nested virtualization
on PCs with AMD processors... Until now Windows 10 only supported
nested virtualization on Intel processors."
--
It's nice to have Linux commands when you need them, inside of Windows.

Arlen Holder wrote:
Dateline today...
"Microsoft's latest Windows Insider preview of Windows 10 cuts out
the Linux kernel for the Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 (WSL2)."

This WSL business has a role for 'Win people' who want to do things w/
linux because it is 'better' by some metrics than doing linux things w/
Win via VM.

BUT...

.... from a 'linux' perspective, such as mine, it isn't important;
because I do linux things in linux. And, from a Win perspective, the
interest would be for a 'Win10-based' dev who wants to do linux in his
Win10. I don't know how many that would apply, certainly not me, for
example.

I can understand that a Win10 'user' might be interested to 'try it out'
to see it work. But, I would have to keep coming back to the fact that
for doing 'linux work' at the server level, the best way would be w/
(just) linux, not Win10 WSL2 linux.

--
Mike Easter

In article ,
Mike Easter wrote:
Arlen Holder wrote:
Dateline today...
"Microsoft's latest Windows Insider preview of Windows 10 cuts out
the Linux kernel for the Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 (WSL2)."

This WSL business has a role for 'Win people' who want to do things w/
linux because it is 'better' by some metrics than doing linux things w/
Win via VM.

I still think there are a lot of MS devs who are desperate to justify their
existence. IOW, they are casting around for something to do...

The above is 50% serious. The other half of it - and I think this really
is what's driving it - is that it fills the niche needs of some big
corporate customer. So, the reality is they did it for them, and the rest
of us benefit (or suffer, as the case may be...)

--
The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4
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in compliance with said RFCs, the actual sig can be found at the following URL:
http://user.xmission.com/~gazelle/Sigs/FiftyPercent

On 2020-06-11 21:23:07 +0000, Mike Easter said:

Arlen Holder wrote:
Dateline today...
"Microsoft's latest Windows Insider preview of Windows 10 cuts out
the Linux kernel for the Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 (WSL2)."

This WSL business has a role for 'Win people' who want to do things w/
linux because it is 'better' by some metrics than doing linux things w/
Win via VM.

BUT...

... from a 'linux' perspective, such as mine, it isn't important;
because I do linux things in linux. And, from a Win perspective, the
interest would be for a 'Win10-based' dev who wants to do linux in his
Win10. I don't know how many that would apply, certainly not me, for
example.

From a personal perspective, it is a great additional facet to windows
which would be very useful if I was a full-time win10 user. I'm not
because I use macOS and I regularly drop into the Terminal for doing
Unix things via scripts or shell commands which are just too convoluted
in the GUI. Having a native *nix machine a keystroke away from using
Office/Photoshop/et al and working on the same filesystem is fabulous.

I currently do the same in WSL on my win10 gaming desktop at home, but
far less regularly. Doing this via a VM would be a real PITA.

I have run long running analyses in WSL1 because they simply wouldn't
work in native Windows and a linux box wasn't immediately available. I
also wanted to see how badly it would fail. It didn't. It worked
transparently.


I can understand that a Win10 'user' might be interested to 'try it
out' to see it work. But, I would have to keep coming back to the fact
that for doing 'linux work' at the server level, the best way would be
w/ (just) linux, not Win10 WSL2 linux.

What do you mean "linux work at the server level"?

Kenny McCormack wrote:
In article ,
Mike Easter wrote:
Arlen Holder wrote:
Dateline today...
"Microsoft's latest Windows Insider preview of Windows 10 cuts out
the Linux kernel for the Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 (WSL2)."
This WSL business has a role for 'Win people' who want to do things w/
linux because it is 'better' by some metrics than doing linux things w/
Win via VM.

I still think there are a lot of MS devs who are desperate to justify their
existence. IOW, they are casting around for something to do...

The above is 50% serious. The other half of it - and I think this really
is what's driving it - is that it fills the niche needs of some big
corporate customer. So, the reality is they did it for them, and the rest
of us benefit (or suffer, as the case may be...)


One of the objectives of Windows 10, was to incorporate the
works of Microsoft Research.

WSL traces to Project Astoria (is a basis for it), but
I can't find an admission it was ever under the umbrella
of Microsoft Research. But, because it has the word "Project"
in it, it might have been a Microsoft Research project.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window...ux#Development

"The technology behind Windows Subsystem for Linux originated
in the unreleased Project Astoria, which enabled some Android
applications to run on Windows 10 Mobile."

I don't think the regular devs are given that much rope.
Maybe the webcam "frameserve" guy being the exception
(symptomatic of a management problem, not enough arch oversight).

As for the Enterprise customers, certain whizzy things are
stripped off their version. For example, MSEdge didn't ship
with theirs, because it was "a web browser that wasn't ripe".
Enterprise didn't want that. Only stable stuff goes in
theirs. And the document security model, was an example
of a feature crafted just for them (likely implemented
just for domains). No home user has seen that one.
If you have a document with a "Top Secret" security
clearance, the user cannot copy and paste text from
the document, into an email. The paste stops working :-)
Your own computer works to keep the company secrets safe,
by busting your Paste button.

Paul

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 06:19:39 -0000 (UTC), Kenny McCormack wrote:

The above is 50% serious. The other half of it - and I think this really
is what's driving it - is that it fills the niche needs of some big
corporate customer. So, the reality is they did it for them, and the rest
of us benefit (or suffer, as the case may be...)


On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 05:33:11 -0400, Paul wrote:

One of the objectives of Windows 10, was to incorporate the
works of Microsoft Research.

I _love_ WSL - but for reasons that perhaps Microsoft didn't do it for???

I can't disagree with anything said by Kenny or Paul (as I wouldn't know
_why_ M$ does anything), but, as a dual-boot Linux user, what I find useful
with WSL inside of Windows is simply that it saves me the effort of
booting.

Without booting, I have all (most of?) the basic commands (ls, locate,
grep, awk, sed, col, tr, etc.) instantly "more easily" accessible.

The "value" to me of WSL, is that it operates on my personal Windows files
* While Windows is running.

I suspect, as the post from Kenny McCormack & Paul indicate, that's _not_
why M$ added WSL, so it's a very interesting topic as to what is M$'s end
plan on adding WSL as a "component" of Windows moving forward.
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