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O.T. Dell 780 Problem



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 2nd 18, 10:45 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Intel (R) Core 2 Duo 2.93 GHz
4GB RAM, 750 GB HD
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

WD BLACK SERIES WD2003FZEX 2TB 7200
RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

Seagate Backup Plus 1(TB) 2.5 USB Portable HD


I have a problem with the Dell 780 ,.. I started
to do my monthly Mrimg backups and finished my
8500 and started to do the Dell 780 (Seagate Backup
Plus 1(TB) 2.5 USB Portable HD) but it hung up
with not- responding so I closed the application and
tried again with the same result.

I restarted the computer and ran an Avast scan successfully
then tried to do a Mrimg again and let it run all night
with the same result. It's hung up at 11% and not responding.

I haven't added or done anything that I know of prior to this
happening and hardly use the 780, it's a backup.I just do scans
and Windows updates.

Thoughts/suggestions?
Robert
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  #2  
Old April 3rd 18, 04:03 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

In message , Mark
Twain writes:
[]
I have a problem with the Dell 780 ,.. I started
to do my monthly Mrimg backups and finished my
8500 and started to do the Dell 780 (Seagate Backup
Plus 1(TB) 2.5 USB Portable HD) but it hung up
with not- responding so I closed the application and
tried again with the same result.

I restarted the computer and ran an Avast scan successfully
then tried to do a Mrimg again and let it run all night
with the same result. It's hung up at 11% and not responding.

[]
How are you doing your Macrium backup: are you running something
installed on the machine (i. e. from within Windows), or are you booting
from the Macrium CD?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you help someone when they're in trouble, they will remember you when
they're in trouble again.
  #3  
Old April 3rd 18, 04:36 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

Mark Twain wrote:
I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Intel (R) Core 2 Duo 2.93 GHz
4GB RAM, 750 GB HD
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

WD BLACK SERIES WD2003FZEX 2TB 7200
RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

Seagate Backup Plus 1(TB) 2.5 USB Portable HD


I have a problem with the Dell 780 ,.. I started
to do my monthly Mrimg backups and finished my
8500 and started to do the Dell 780 (Seagate Backup
Plus 1(TB) 2.5 USB Portable HD) but it hung up
with not- responding so I closed the application and
tried again with the same result.

I restarted the computer and ran an Avast scan successfully
then tried to do a Mrimg again and let it run all night
with the same result. It's hung up at 11% and not responding.

I haven't added or done anything that I know of prior to this
happening and hardly use the 780, it's a backup.I just do scans
and Windows updates.

Thoughts/suggestions?
Robert


How is the Seagate Backup Plus 1TB USB powered ?

A USB2 port can provide 5V @ 500mA. A 2.5" hard
drive spinning up, draws 5V @ 1000mA for around
10 seconds, until it gets up to speed.

So while the drive in the enclosure could be going
bad, it's also possible the enclosure doesn't have
enough power to run properly. If the drive can finish
spinup, before the computer cuts off power, the
"idle" power level is a lot lower once the
spindle finishes spinning up.

Either the source drive is going bad, or the destination
drive is going bad. My wild bet at the moment, is it's
the external which is causing a problem.

You could try test-transferring a large file from inside
the computer, onto the 2.5" drive, and see whether a
sustained transfer works when a file is copied.

To test whether the source file you're sending to the
external file that way is valid, you can either run a
checksum on the file (which is just a read operation).
For example, Macrium can run a "verify" command on
a previously made .mrimg, as a means to verify the
entire file is readable. And if you have such a file
on your internal drive, you could verify the file first,
then later try and copy it to the external.

Seagate does have diagnostic tests for their hard drive
products, but I don't know whether a "proper" test can
be run on a USB external drive. If there is no SMART
passthru, then the test program cannot issue an internal
test command to the drive. It would be easier to issue
tests to the internal drives in your computer.

For the external drive you assembled yourself, that one
comes apart, and the drive inside that one can be moved inside
the computer for usage with a Seagate diagnostic program.

So far, it sounds like a hardware problem. And the hardest part
will be thinking up a good test case, to verify the problem
exists.

Check the Seagate site for a test diagnostic. You might
already have a copy of this installed.

https://www.seagate.com/ca/en/suppor...oads/seatools/

SeaTools for Windows 24.8MB

There is only one thing to watch with the Seatools program.
I *do not* recommend using that, with a home-brew enclosure.
The thing is, Seatools erased the config eeprom on my
Cypress controller based enclosure a number of years ago.
I was able to find a recipe to re-program the chip.

The SeaTools should not damage or take a poke at the Seagate
branded enclosure. But if you happened to have a Cypress
chip inside the 3.5" enclosure, you'd want to disconnect
such an enclosure from the 780, before testing. I didn't
even know my enclosure here *had* a Cypress chip, until
it just "disappeared" from my desktop. Ugh!

Paul
  #4  
Old April 3rd 18, 05:03 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

In message , Paul
writes:
[]
A USB2 port can provide 5V @ 500mA. A 2.5" hard
drive spinning up, draws 5V @ 1000mA for around
10 seconds, until it gets up to speed.

[]
Is this true for _all_ 2.5" drives, or only most? Are there models that
remain within the ½A limit?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I don't like activity holidays. I like /inactivity/ holidays.
- Miriam Margolyes, RT 2017/4/15-21
  #5  
Old April 3rd 18, 05:15 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

I'm running Macrium via downloadable version 6.3

I'm Seagate is powered via a USB connection to the
780. That's the only connection it has.

It sounds like I have allot to do,....

I do have a older version of Sea Tools on disc but
now wonder if I should use it?

Why is it I always seem to get the weirdest problems
that come out of nowhere? *L*

Robert
  #6  
Old April 3rd 18, 05:17 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

This is the backup HD for the 780:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16822178107

Robert

  #7  
Old April 3rd 18, 05:26 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

I keep all the Mrimg's on the external HD''s

The 780 is a backup so I don't have any large
files on it.

Should I run chkdsk?


Robert



  #8  
Old April 3rd 18, 05:40 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

In message , Mark
Twain writes:
I'm running Macrium via downloadable version 6.3


Yes, but are you running it from the HD which it is backing up, or from
the bootable CD you made after you downloaded Macrium? (You have made
the CD, haven't you!)

I'm Seagate is powered via a USB connection to the
780. That's the only connection it has.


Does it have a USB lead with two plugs at the PC end, though?
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I don't like activity holidays. I like /inactivity/ holidays.
- Miriam Margolyes, RT 2017/4/15-21
  #9  
Old April 3rd 18, 07:27 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
[]
A USB2 port can provide 5V @ 500mA. A 2.5" hard
drive spinning up, draws 5V @ 1000mA for around
10 seconds, until it gets up to speed.

[]
Is this true for _all_ 2.5" drives, or only most? Are there models that
remain within the ½A limit?


You have to find a datasheet to be sure.

The reason this works most of the time, is the USB2 port
uses a 1.1A fuse. Laptops use an 8 pin DIP to "police" the
power, and it has a more precise cutoff capability (it uses
some sort of internal MOSFET to gate the power).

The incidence of problems has changed with time, and
in previous generations, there were more complains about
devices running off just one USB lead set. Using two USB
cables usually fixes any failures to spin up.

A USB3 connector hole, has a higher fuse rating on it. And
is moore likely to work from a powering perspective.

*******

The drive could also have a mechanical problem.

Paul
  #10  
Old April 3rd 18, 09:01 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

Mark Twain wrote:
I keep all the Mrimg's on the external HD''s

The 780 is a backup so I don't have any large
files on it.

Should I run chkdsk?


Robert


Are you getting any Click Of Death from this thing ?

That's when the drive tries to reset itself, and it
bangs the heads against the stop.

On quiet drives, this can give a "tiny click" noise.
And that's a sign it's having trouble reading stuff
off the platters.

I can't find any data of note, about that external.
Including, how hard is it to take the enclosure apart.

*******

To make a test file on your internal drive, is "easy".
It just about killed me :-)

It appears they changed the behavior of one of the Windows
commands I used previously for this.

Open an administrator Command Prompt. In Windows 7
type "cmd" into the search box, and for the top-most
item returned, right-click that item and select
Run As Administrator.

Now, the command I'm about to show, I don't think it
always needed administrator for this.

First, in the Command Prompt, we need a place on the
internal drive to store the test file. Here, I've selected
your Downloads folder to be the holder of the file. In
this case, the test file is roughly 10GB. The command doesn't
accept shorthands like some commands do, for size.

cd /d %userprofile%\Downloads

fsutil file createnew my_new_test_file.bin 10485760000

Now, that command appears to make a file virtually instantly
on the drive. Go to your downloads folder, and check the
properties of the new file. It should show a size of
approximately 10GB.

Now you can copy that file (in File Explorer) to the external drive,
and see if it accepts the operation. The disk light really
shouldn't flash for the source drive for that file, but
the LED for the external drive should flash. Because
the writes to the external drive should be real.

What I can't figure out, is how the computer is making
that zero-containing file. It has all the earmarks of
being a Sparse file. And one of the reasons in the past
that I didn't like that fsutil command, is the file it
created was sparse. What's weird is, if I check the
Attributes right now, it's 0x20, which is the "archived"
attribute and perfectly normal looking. For all the world,
the file the fsutil created, behaves just like a Sparse
file would.

Anyway, little puzzles aside, the "fsutil" command,
a command provided in Windows, has a way to make a
large file for test purposes. And it can make the
file in no time at all. Copying the file, however,
takes time to do, and that's what we want for testing.
Is to see the external drive working out, and
not "conking out".

Paul
  #11  
Old April 3rd 18, 01:21 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

This is what I did,

I took one of my spare 2GB external Seagate HD's
and used that to complete a Macrium Mrimg backup.

So it seems it was the external HD that was the
problem.

I should of done this in the first place.

Thanks,
Robert
  #12  
Old April 4th 18, 12:37 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

I run it from the HD and no, I never made a Macrium CD.
It has a USB plug,.. but I've resolved the problem.

Thanks,
Robert

  #13  
Old April 4th 18, 12:43 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

I did read your suggestions before I thought of
using one of my spare HD's but is there anything
else I should do at this point?

Maybe when I can, I think it's a good idea to
buy a couple of spare HD's since you said quality
HD's and cases are becoming hard to find.


Robert
  #14  
Old April 4th 18, 04:05 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

Mark Twain wrote:
I did read your suggestions before I thought of
using one of my spare HD's but is there anything
else I should do at this point?

Maybe when I can, I think it's a good idea to
buy a couple of spare HD's since you said quality
HD's and cases are becoming hard to find.


Robert


I can't say what's happened to your 2.5" drive.

And those can be a little hard to get out of the casing.

Paul
  #15  
Old April 4th 18, 10:39 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default O.T. Dell 780 Problem

In message , Mark
Twain writes:
I run it from the HD and no, I never made a Macrium CD.
It has a USB plug,.. but I've resolved the problem.

Thanks,
Robert

You may have resolved the current problem, but if you haven't made a
Macrium CD, you're going to have a problem if the HD you're making the
images of ever dies [or gets infected with ransomware] (which I
_presume_ is/are the reasons you're making the images)!

Think about it: HD dies, or for some other reason becomes unbootable:
how will you use (even access) your images?

Make that CD! (And check that you _can_ boot from it; after disaster
strikes is _not_ a good time to discover it doesn't work!) It'll fit on
a mini-CD (well M5 will, and I think M6 and M7 too).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

it is easy to make up a lie, but it can take much more time and effort to
convincingly refute it. - Patrick Cockburn, i, 2016-9-24
 




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