Gmail interface

Is anyone here using Gmail in a browser?

I've used my Gmail account for years now with a client program.
But recently I decided to have a look at the Gmail app in Chrome.
The window is riddled with an overwhelming amount of icons and graphical
artifacts.

But most annoying is the date format of the messages.
Why are the hiding the year digits? How can I get them back for ALL
messages?
Or do americans think it will allways remain 2018??
I want displayed dd-mm-yyyy everywhere, without any hiding of any parts.

The second annoyance: how do I get rid of the automatic 'read' marking?
I allways read a message more than once, and want to control the 'read'
marking ONLY MANUALLY, after having replied the message. I dont need any
interference from google.

I'm sure I wil stumble upon more annoyances, but for now I would be very
happy to have solutions for these two issues.


best regards,


--


|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

On 07/10/2018 20:32, Linea Recta wrote:
Is anyone here using Gmail in a browser?

Yes. Firefox is my browser for it. I use Basic HTML format. No "
/overwhelming amount of icons and graphical artifacts /" here.







--
With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

Linea Recta wrote:

Is anyone here using Gmail in a browser?

I've used my Gmail account for years now with a client program.
But recently I decided to have a look at the Gmail app in Chrome.
The window is riddled with an overwhelming amount of icons and graphical
artifacts.

But most annoying is the date format of the messages.
Why are the hiding the year digits? How can I get them back for ALL
messages?
Or do americans think it will allways remain 2018??
I want displayed dd-mm-yyyy everywhere, without any hiding of any parts.

The second annoyance: how do I get rid of the automatic 'read' marking?
I allways read a message more than once, and want to control the 'read'
marking ONLY MANUALLY, after having replied the message. I dont need any
interference from google.

I'm sure I wil stumble upon more annoyances, but for now I would be very
happy to have solutions for these two issues.

best regards,

Google has used their own datestamp string for quite awhile. They will
show something as xx minutes old, a day-of-the-week, a month-day when
within the current year, or a month-day-year datestamp when older.

Google created a new layout for their webmail client. For awhile, users
that want to be unpaid beta testers could switch to the new layout, or
switch back to the classic layout. Google removed the option to switch
back to Classic, I think, sometime around September. They moved forward
to the new layout and are not going to support multiple layouts.

Continue using your local e-mail client if you don't want to learn, use,
or bother with the new webmail client's layout. I rarely use any
webmail client and instead use a local e-mail client.

"VanguardLH" schreef in bericht
...
Linea Recta wrote:

Is anyone here using Gmail in a browser?

I've used my Gmail account for years now with a client program.
But recently I decided to have a look at the Gmail app in Chrome.
The window is riddled with an overwhelming amount of icons and graphical
artifacts.

But most annoying is the date format of the messages.
Why are the hiding the year digits? How can I get them back for ALL
messages?
Or do americans think it will allways remain 2018??
I want displayed dd-mm-yyyy everywhere, without any hiding of any parts.

The second annoyance: how do I get rid of the automatic 'read' marking?
I allways read a message more than once, and want to control the 'read'
marking ONLY MANUALLY, after having replied the message. I dont need any
interference from google.

I'm sure I wil stumble upon more annoyances, but for now I would be very
happy to have solutions for these two issues.

best regards,

Google has used their own datestamp string for quite awhile. They will
show something as xx minutes old, a day-of-the-week, a month-day when
within the current year, or a month-day-year datestamp when older.

Google created a new layout for their webmail client. For awhile, users
that want to be unpaid beta testers could switch to the new layout, or
switch back to the classic layout. Google removed the option to switch
back to Classic, I think, sometime around September. They moved forward
to the new layout and are not going to support multiple layouts.

Continue using your local e-mail client if you don't want to learn, use,
or bother with the new webmail client's layout. I rarely use any
webmail client and instead use a local e-mail client.




Thanks.
Disappointing they seem to have abandonrd the common sense options...




--


|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

"Linea Recta" on Mon, 8 Oct 2018 17:36:35
+0200 typed in alt.windows7.general the following:



Thanks.
Disappointing they seem to have abandonrd the common sense options...


It is Google. They will decide what is common sense, and make you
use it. Whether it works for you or not. E.G., what they did with
Google Groups has made the archives impossible to search. Which is
not a good look for a Company which started as "search" engine.


--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

In message , pyotr
filipivich writes:
"Linea Recta" on Mon, 8 Oct 2018 17:36:35
+0200 typed in alt.windows7.general the following:



Thanks.
Disappointing they seem to have abandonrd the common sense options...


It is Google. They will decide what is common sense, and make you
use it. Whether it works for you or not. E.G., what they did with
Google Groups has made the archives impossible to search. Which is
not a good look for a Company which started as "search" engine.


I don't know what they've done to GG as I don't use it, but it certainly
seems they've made some of the archive contents appear in search results
- but in such a way that the person finding them doesn't realise they're
a newsgroup post, in fact in all likelihood doesn't know what usenet is.
They've also made the user interface in such a way that anyone
attempting to respond to such a posting (a) doesn't realise the posting
is ten or twenty years old (b) thinks they're responding with a private
email to the original poster, rather than a post to a newsgroup. This
seems to be particularly the case for people with @gmail addresses: I'm
not saying anything about such people, more that Google seem to have set
things up such that they in particular are liable to be misled in this
way.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... the greatest musical festival in the world that doesn't involve mud.
- Eddie Mair, RT 2014/8/16-22

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

pyotr filipivich WROTE:

Linea Recta:

Thanks. Disappointing they seem to have abandonrd the common sense
options...

It is Google. They will decide what is common sense, and make you
use it. Whether it works for you or not. E.G., what they did with
Google Groups has made the archives impossible to search. Which is
not a good look for a Company which started as "search" engine.

I don't know what they've done to GG as I don't use it, but it
certainly seems they've made some of the archive contents appear in
search results - but in such a way that the person finding them
doesn't realise they're a newsgroup post, in fact in all likelihood
doesn't know what usenet is. They've also made the user interface in
such a way that anyone attempting to respond to such a posting (a)
doesn't realise the posting is ten or twenty years old (b) thinks
they're responding with a private email to the original poster,
rather than a post to a newsgroup. This seems to be particularly the
case for people with @gmail addresses: I'm not saying anything about
such people, more that Google seem to have set things up such that
they in particular are liable to be misled in this way.

Before acquiring Deja News, Google had their own groups which are
web-based forums that someone (the owner) created there to have their
own private conversations. Some were open to the public but most
required you register to discuss there. After Google acquired Deja
News, they deliberately confused Usenet "newsgroups" with their private
"groups" by calling both just "groups".

At first, Google had an advanced search page. That let you change the
time range of a search, search by author, and other customizable search
criteria. You could also use search operators, like author: to, for
example, search on a specific poster, like "author:VanguardLH". While
I create kill filters, I usually revisit them and review the comment
for each to see if a poster has amended their behavior a year later to
qualify for removing the filter (but keep colorizing their posts until
another year later). They took that away (both the advanced search
page disappeared and so did the author operator). Some are still
available, like a date range, but that might disappear, too, along with
the other advanced operators that have already disappeared.

Used to be you could use their advanced search page (which built a
search string with the advanced operators) or specify the operators in
your own search string to focus on which posts you wanted to find.
Google eventually started included their privated "groups" in the
[news]groups search which brought in a lot of irrelevant noise, plus
they started using their web search engine which discards any
non-alphanumeric characters.

A Usenet archive that is not searchable is of little or no value. You
go to the archive to find prior discussions, not to see what you can
already see in your own local NNTP client. Google ruined that Usenet
archive.

While Google will peer their Usenet archive with other NNTP servers
(both peer-in and peer-out), there is only one way to submit to Google:
using their webmail client. There are no NNTP servers accessible to
the public to submit posts to Google's NNTP server. Just peering and
their webmail client are the only access. Because those that submit to
Google Groups (which is their private groups + Usenet) almost
invariably only know how to use a web browser, most there are trolls,
malcontents, forgers, spammers, and uber boobs hence the Usenet
Improvement Project:

http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/index.html

I have filters that mark as read, colorize, and flag as ignored any
articles that originate from Google Groups (i.e., as the injection
node, not peered through them) mostly because of spammers and uber
boobs [ab]using that Usenet injection node. I don't delete those
posts, just use a default view that hides the ignore-flagged posts
(along with their subthreads since I also don't want to see replies to
those posts).

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" on Mon, 8 Oct 2018
17:56:26 +0100 typed in alt.windows7.general the following:
In message , pyotr
filipivich writes:
"Linea Recta" on Mon, 8 Oct 2018 17:36:35
+0200 typed in alt.windows7.general the following:



Thanks.
Disappointing they seem to have abandonrd the common sense options...


It is Google. They will decide what is common sense, and make you
use it. Whether it works for you or not. E.G., what they did with
Google Groups has made the archives impossible to search. Which is
not a good look for a Company which started as "search" engine.


I don't know what they've done to GG as I don't use it, but it certainly
seems they've made some of the archive contents appear in search results

I don't use google groups myself. But trying to find a post which
you know was made ... I have better luck looking through my own files.

- but in such a way that the person finding them doesn't realise they're
a newsgroup post, in fact in all likelihood doesn't know what usenet is.
They've also made the user interface in such a way that anyone
attempting to respond to such a posting (a) doesn't realise the posting
is ten or twenty years old (b) thinks they're responding with a private
email to the original poster, rather than a post to a newsgroup. This
seems to be particularly the case for people with @gmail addresses: I'm
not saying anything about such people, more that Google seem to have set
things up such that they in particular are liable to be misled in this
way.

Google has its own standards of what is "good" and useful.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 09:10:23 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

"Linea Recta" on Mon, 8 Oct 2018 17:36:35
+0200 typed in alt.windows7.general the following:

Disappointing they seem to have abandonrd the common sense options...

It is Google. They will decide what is common sense, and make you
use it. Whether it works for you or not. E.G., what they did with
Google Groups has made the archives impossible to search. Which is
not a good look for a Company which started as "search" engine.

When Google started offering webmail they offered a simple no-nonsense
editor that worked well.

But they kept "enhancing" it so that I now find it impossible to use.

I check my Gmail about once a month or so, mainly to delete spurious
"notifications" that some websites insist on sending me. I now use
use my Gmail address only for giving to sites that went to send me
notifications or offers or newsletters that I don't want cluttering up
my inbox, and bulk delete them every few weeks.

If anyone sends me anything that needs a reply, I forward it to myself
on my proper e-mail address and reply there where I have an editor
that works.




--
Ignore the following - it's spammers for spambot fodder.

On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 07:44:28 +0200, Steve Hayes
wrote:

On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 09:10:23 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

"Linea Recta" on Mon, 8 Oct 2018 17:36:35
+0200 typed in alt.windows7.general the following:

Disappointing they seem to have abandonrd the common sense options...

It is Google. They will decide what is common sense, and make you
use it. Whether it works for you or not. E.G., what they did with
Google Groups has made the archives impossible to search. Which is
not a good look for a Company which started as "search" engine.

When Google started offering webmail they offered a simple no-nonsense
editor that worked well.

But they kept "enhancing" it so that I now find it impossible to use.


As far as I'm concerned, Google webmail and all other webmail has
*always* been poor. It's the worst possible way to do e-mail. Many
people don't realize it, but you can read and write gmail with almost
any e-mail program. And almost any e-mail program is a far better way
to do it.



I check my Gmail about once a month or so, mainly to delete spurious
"notifications" that some websites insist on sending me. I now use
use my Gmail address only for giving to sites that went to send me
notifications or offers or newsletters that I don't want cluttering up
my inbox, and bulk delete them every few weeks.

If anyone sends me anything that needs a reply, I forward it to myself
on my proper e-mail address and reply there where I have an editor
that works.



Why not simply read your gmail in your "proper" e-mail program?

In message , Steve Hayes
writes:
Ignore the following - it's spammers for spambot fodder.














Did this work? Does it still?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

(Petitions - at least e-petitions - should collect votes both for and
against, if they're going to be reported as indicative of public
opinion. If you agree, please click below, unless you already have.) [UK only]
https://petition.parliament.uk/petit...BYobumelL9J54c

Odds are, the phrase "It's none of my business" will be followed by "but".

Linea Recta wrote:

VanguardLH ...

Linea Recta wrote:

Is anyone here using Gmail in a browser?

I've used my Gmail account for years now with a client program.
But recently I decided to have a look at the Gmail app in Chrome.
The window is riddled with an overwhelming amount of icons and graphical
artifacts.

But most annoying is the date format of the messages.
Why are the hiding the year digits? How can I get them back for ALL
messages?
Or do americans think it will allways remain 2018??
I want displayed dd-mm-yyyy everywhere, without any hiding of any parts.

The second annoyance: how do I get rid of the automatic 'read' marking?
I allways read a message more than once, and want to control the 'read'
marking ONLY MANUALLY, after having replied the message. I dont need any
interference from google.

I'm sure I wil stumble upon more annoyances, but for now I would be very
happy to have solutions for these two issues.

best regards,

Google has used their own datestamp string for quite awhile. They will
show something as xx minutes old, a day-of-the-week, a month-day when
within the current year, or a month-day-year datestamp when older.

Google created a new layout for their webmail client. For awhile, users
that want to be unpaid beta testers could switch to the new layout, or
switch back to the classic layout. Google removed the option to switch
back to Classic, I think, sometime around September. They moved forward
to the new layout and are not going to support multiple layouts.

Continue using your local e-mail client if you don't want to learn, use,
or bother with the new webmail client's layout. I rarely use any
webmail client and instead use a local e-mail client.

Disappointing they seem to have abandonrd the common sense options...

Google probably saw or knew that Microsoft was going to change their
webmail client's layout (to make it more similar to their Outlook local
e-mail client), so they did the same and updated their webmail client.

I don't a lot of change. There is still the folders pane on the left
with its More link. Instead of a white-on-red square button at the top
left for Compose, there's now a rounded Compose button now. Above that
is what looks like a menu button but what it really does is squash the
folders pane to give more room to the mail/header list pane; however,
when you hover the mouse over a folder, it expands temporarily so you
can see the name of each folder.

Awhile back, I think, you could use a button (which is why I thought the
3-bar hamburger icon was a selection menu) to switch between Calendar
and Contacts. Instead, they created a right-side vertical navbar to
quickly switch to Calender and Tasks (but, as yet, no quick switch to
Contacts). Looks like that sidebar is where icons for add-ons get
listed. I rarely use any webmail client, so there's no point in
customizing it only to later lose the setup when they next change their
webmail client's layout.

Although you asked for a change in the datestamp string, you sure
Google's webmail client ever showed yyyy-dd-mm for any item within the
current year? The various formats that I mentioned seemed, to me, to be
what Google was using before. Here's a pic before the layout change:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/AGiFkJDwG-k/maxresdefault.jpg

Sure looks like Google previously used the varying datestamp string, as
I mentioned. You didn't lose anything from before with the new webmail
client's layout. Google's datestring is still xx minutes, day-of-week
or mm-dd, and only yyyy-dd-mm when the item is dated in the prior year.

I don't remember a mark-read option in their Classic webmail client.
That's something you got used to how it behaved in your local client.

What "common sense" options? Always seemed to me that Google designed a
webmail client that catered to the lowest common denominator of users
(aka boobs). Lots of options available in local e-mail clients never
did and still haven't shown up in their webmail client.

"VanguardLH" schreef in bericht
...
Linea Recta wrote:

VanguardLH ...

Linea Recta wrote:

Is anyone here using Gmail in a browser?

I've used my Gmail account for years now with a client program.
But recently I decided to have a look at the Gmail app in Chrome.
The window is riddled with an overwhelming amount of icons and
graphical
artifacts.

But most annoying is the date format of the messages.
Why are the hiding the year digits? How can I get them back for ALL
messages?
Or do americans think it will allways remain 2018??
I want displayed dd-mm-yyyy everywhere, without any hiding of any
parts.

The second annoyance: how do I get rid of the automatic 'read' marking?
I allways read a message more than once, and want to control the 'read'
marking ONLY MANUALLY, after having replied the message. I dont need
any
interference from google.

I'm sure I wil stumble upon more annoyances, but for now I would be
very
happy to have solutions for these two issues.

best regards,

Google has used their own datestamp string for quite awhile. They will
show something as xx minutes old, a day-of-the-week, a month-day when
within the current year, or a month-day-year datestamp when older.

Google created a new layout for their webmail client. For awhile, users
that want to be unpaid beta testers could switch to the new layout, or
switch back to the classic layout. Google removed the option to switch
back to Classic, I think, sometime around September. They moved forward
to the new layout and are not going to support multiple layouts.

Continue using your local e-mail client if you don't want to learn, use,
or bother with the new webmail client's layout. I rarely use any
webmail client and instead use a local e-mail client.

Disappointing they seem to have abandonrd the common sense options...

Google probably saw or knew that Microsoft was going to change their
webmail client's layout (to make it more similar to their Outlook local
e-mail client), so they did the same and updated their webmail client.

I don't a lot of change. There is still the folders pane on the left
with its More link. Instead of a white-on-red square button at the top
left for Compose, there's now a rounded Compose button now. Above that
is what looks like a menu button but what it really does is squash the
folders pane to give more room to the mail/header list pane; however,
when you hover the mouse over a folder, it expands temporarily so you
can see the name of each folder.

Awhile back, I think, you could use a button (which is why I thought the
3-bar hamburger icon was a selection menu) to switch between Calendar
and Contacts. Instead, they created a right-side vertical navbar to
quickly switch to Calender and Tasks (but, as yet, no quick switch to
Contacts). Looks like that sidebar is where icons for add-ons get
listed. I rarely use any webmail client, so there's no point in
customizing it only to later lose the setup when they next change their
webmail client's layout.

Although you asked for a change in the datestamp string, you sure
Google's webmail client ever showed yyyy-dd-mm for any item within the
current year? The various formats that I mentioned seemed, to me, to be
what Google was using before. Here's a pic before the layout change:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/AGiFkJDwG-k/maxresdefault.jpg

Sure looks like Google previously used the varying datestamp string, as
I mentioned. You didn't lose anything from before with the new webmail
client's layout. Google's datestring is still xx minutes, day-of-week
or mm-dd, and only yyyy-dd-mm when the item is dated in the prior year.

I don't remember a mark-read option in their Classic webmail client.
That's something you got used to how it behaved in your local client.

What "common sense" options? Always seemed to me that Google designed a
webmail client that catered to the lowest common denominator of users
(aka boobs). Lots of options available in local e-mail clients never
did and still haven't shown up in their webmail client.



In my local client (Windows Mail from Vista!), I can see all the date info
in the format dd-mm-yyyy and time format hh:mm, even from my Gmail account.
So all the date information is still there. They just seem to like to hide
some parts in Gmail web mail. Couldn't find no option to make it appear in
the web mail.
I never want to mark anything automatically as 'read' because I want to keep
track of what I replied and what not yet replied.
Come to think of it: it would be usefull to have messages marked
automatically 'replied', if such exists.

So for the time being I keep using my local client (also because of the nntp
groups).
But I got warnings from Google that this causes "security risks"...



--


|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

In message , Linea Recta
writes:
[]
I never want to mark anything automatically as 'read' because I want to
keep track of what I replied and what not yet replied.

Read isn't the same as replied. I too sometimes (in my client) mark
things as unread even if I've read them, as a reminder that I want to go
back to them.

Come to think of it: it would be usefull to have messages marked
automatically 'replied', if such exists.

Some clients do indeed do that (at least for emails); my ancient
Turnpike does, for one.

So for the time being I keep using my local client (also because of the
nntp groups).
But I got warnings from Google that this causes "security risks"...

You can (in the webmail interface), I understand, turn off those
warnings (though there is some hearsay that they get turned back on from
time to time). And there _are_ local clients that don't trigger them
(recent Thunderbirds, for example) - it's not all clients, only the ones
that can't do something (submit passwords encrypted, I think it is).


--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The losses on both sides at Borodino [1812], 70 miles from Moscow, are the
equivalent of a jumbo jet crashing into an area of six square miles every five
minutes for the whole ten hours of the battle, killing or wounding everyone on
board. - Andrew Roberts on Napoleon, RT 2015/6/13-19

Linea Recta wrote:
Is anyone here using Gmail in a browser?

I've used my Gmail account for years now with a client program.
But recently I decided to have a look at the Gmail app in Chrome.
The window is riddled with an overwhelming amount of icons and graphical
artifacts.

But most annoying is the date format of the messages.
Why are the hiding the year digits? How can I get them back for ALL
messages?
Or do americans think it will allways remain 2018??
I want displayed dd-mm-yyyy everywhere, without any hiding of any parts.

The second annoyance: how do I get rid of the automatic 'read' marking?
I allways read a message more than once, and want to control the 'read'
marking ONLY MANUALLY, after having replied the message. I dont need any
interference from google.

I'm sure I wil stumble upon more annoyances, but for now I would be very
happy to have solutions for these two issues.

best regards,

If you don't like the Gmail app in Chrome [1] and have used a normal
e-mail client before, then why don't you just use that?

I.e. what's wrong with your current e-mail client (I assume that's
Windows Mail, i.e. the same you use for NetNews/Usenet)?

[1] I.e. not (just) Gmail in a browser, which you could use on any
'foreign' computer, but Gmail app in Chrome, which you probably cannot
use on any 'foreign' computer, because it probably will/might not allow
you to install apps.