Windows Experience

On Fri, 24 May 2019 07:59:36 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

What can I do to make it more like previous windows version so I do not
have a big learning curve.

Tanks in advance.

My personal opinion is to learn how to use the system rather than trying
to add 3rd party tools to change it. Microsoft is making constant
changes and there is no love lost if any of these things break. To
them, it's there system to do what they want.

Those constant changes, I find, simply keep you having to relearn
different areas of the system, which is a waste of your time if you are
trying to be efficient in your use of the system as part of a business
situation.

Yet a surprising number of cries for help on this newsgroup come from
people who have installed 3rd party software or made nonstandard mods
to Windows to make it look and feel like some earlie version of
Windows to which they have got used. It has always puzzled me as I
would have thought that it is no harder to learn how to use whatever
MS has offered than it it is to work out how to make it behave like
something else.

people hate change.

That's too simplistic. It's not change that people hate. Change for the
better is usually welcomed, while change for the worse, or change that
just treads water, is less welcome. The value of change is in the eye of
the beholder.

In the cases of Windows 8 and 10, most of the changes (UI and system)
did not make things better, and that's why many people went back to
Windows 7 or used a tweaker tool to fix the many annoyances. I'm
referring to people who knew that they had those options. The vast
majority just buy a computer and use it, oblivious to any possibility of
improving it.

Personally, if I create a Win10 VM that I'm only going to use for a few
days, I leave it untouched. It's painful and awkward to use, but it's
short term pain. If it's a VM that I expect to keep around for a while,
you can bet I'm going to fix what I think is wrong with it.

In a way, I admire people who use Windows 10 just as it comes. In any
society, there are always a few people like that. Fortunately for me,
I'm not one of them.

On Fri, 24 May 2019 22:35:48 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Thu, 23 May 2019 07:51:03 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 5/22/19 12:41 PM, Big Al wrote:
On 5/22/19 2:01 PM, Knightly wrote:
New to windows 10 and do not like it.

What can I do to make it more like previous windows version so I do not
have a big learning curve.

Tanks in advance.

My personal opinion is to learn how to use the system rather than trying
to add 3rd party tools to change it. Microsoft is making constant
changes and there is no love lost if any of these things break. To
them, it's there system to do what they want.

Those constant changes, I find, simply keep you having to relearn
different areas of the system, which is a waste of your time if you are
trying to be efficient in your use of the system as part of a business
situation.

Yet a surprising number of cries for help on this newsgroup come from
people who have installed 3rd party software or made nonstandard mods
to Windows to make it look and feel like some earlie version of
Windows to which they have got used. It has always puzzled me as I
would have thought that it is no harder to learn how to use whatever
MS has offered than it it is to work out how to make it behave like
something else.


I am one of those who have installed third-party software (Start 10)
to make Windows 10 look and feel more like Windows 7. However I am
*not* one of those who cry for help.

I generally agree that "it is no harder to learn how to use whatever
MS has offered than it is to work out how to make it behave like
something else." That's not why I run Start10. I can use Windows 10
in its native form; it took very little time to learn it. I use
Start10 because I greatly prefer its GUI to Windows 10's native GUI.
For me, it's easier and more pleasant to use.

On Fri, 24 May 2019 10:11:39 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Fri, 24 May 2019 07:59:36 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

What can I do to make it more like previous windows version so I do not
have a big learning curve.

Tanks in advance.

My personal opinion is to learn how to use the system rather than trying
to add 3rd party tools to change it. Microsoft is making constant
changes and there is no love lost if any of these things break. To
them, it's there system to do what they want.

Those constant changes, I find, simply keep you having to relearn
different areas of the system, which is a waste of your time if you are
trying to be efficient in your use of the system as part of a business
situation.

Yet a surprising number of cries for help on this newsgroup come from
people who have installed 3rd party software or made nonstandard mods
to Windows to make it look and feel like some earlie version of
Windows to which they have got used. It has always puzzled me as I
would have thought that it is no harder to learn how to use whatever
MS has offered than it it is to work out how to make it behave like
something else.

people hate change.

That's too simplistic. It's not change that people hate. Change for the
better is usually welcomed, while change for the worse, or change that
just treads water, is less welcome. The value of change is in the eye of
the beholder.

In the cases of Windows 8 and 10, most of the changes (UI and system)
did not make things better, and that's why many people went back to
Windows 7 or used a tweaker tool to fix the many annoyances. I'm
referring to people who knew that they had those options. The vast
majority just buy a computer and use it, oblivious to any possibility of
improving it.


Well put!

In article , Char Jackson
wrote:

What can I do to make it more like previous windows version so I do not
have a big learning curve.

Tanks in advance.

My personal opinion is to learn how to use the system rather than trying
to add 3rd party tools to change it. Microsoft is making constant
changes and there is no love lost if any of these things break. To
them, it's there system to do what they want.

Those constant changes, I find, simply keep you having to relearn
different areas of the system, which is a waste of your time if you are
trying to be efficient in your use of the system as part of a business
situation.

Yet a surprising number of cries for help on this newsgroup come from
people who have installed 3rd party software or made nonstandard mods
to Windows to make it look and feel like some earlie version of
Windows to which they have got used. It has always puzzled me as I
would have thought that it is no harder to learn how to use whatever
MS has offered than it it is to work out how to make it behave like
something else.

people hate change.

That's too simplistic. It's not change that people hate. Change for the
better is usually welcomed, while change for the worse, or change that
just treads water, is less welcome. The value of change is in the eye of
the beholder.

agreed. the problem is that people see something different and
immediately reject it before even giving it a chance.

In the cases of Windows 8 and 10, most of the changes (UI and system)
did not make things better, and that's why many people went back to
Windows 7 or used a tweaker tool to fix the many annoyances. I'm
referring to people who knew that they had those options. The vast
majority just buy a computer and use it, oblivious to any possibility of
improving it.

win10 definitely makes things much better for most things.

win8 not so much. trying to unify desktop and mobile is destined to
fail. microsoft learned a lot from that.

Personally, if I create a Win10 VM that I'm only going to use for a few
days, I leave it untouched. It's painful and awkward to use, but it's
short term pain. If it's a VM that I expect to keep around for a while,
you can bet I'm going to fix what I think is wrong with it.

In a way, I admire people who use Windows 10 just as it comes. In any
society, there are always a few people like that. Fortunately for me,
I'm not one of them.

that's fine. no product is suited for everyone, nor should it be.

Ken Blake wrote:

On Fri, 24 May 2019 22:35:48 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Thu, 23 May 2019 07:51:03 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 5/22/19 12:41 PM, Big Al wrote:
On 5/22/19 2:01 PM, Knightly wrote:
New to windows 10 and do not like it.

What can I do to make it more like previous windows version so I do not
have a big learning curve.

Tanks in advance.

My personal opinion is to learn how to use the system rather than trying
to add 3rd party tools to change it. Microsoft is making constant
changes and there is no love lost if any of these things break. To
them, it's there system to do what they want.

Those constant changes, I find, simply keep you having to relearn
different areas of the system, which is a waste of your time if you are
trying to be efficient in your use of the system as part of a business
situation.

Yet a surprising number of cries for help on this newsgroup come from
people who have installed 3rd party software or made nonstandard mods
to Windows to make it look and feel like some earlie version of
Windows to which they have got used. It has always puzzled me as I
would have thought that it is no harder to learn how to use whatever
MS has offered than it it is to work out how to make it behave like
something else.

I am one of those who have installed third-party software (Start 10)
to make Windows 10 look and feel more like Windows 7. However I am
*not* one of those who cry for help.

I generally agree that "it is no harder to learn how to use whatever
MS has offered than it is to work out how to make it behave like
something else." That's not why I run Start10. I can use Windows 10
in its native form; it took very little time to learn it. I use
Start10 because I greatly prefer its GUI to Windows 10's native GUI.
For me, it's easier and more pleasant to use.

I agree that having a menued Start Menu where I can decide how to group
programs by type into submenues and decide what will appear in those
menues (like getting rid of an Uninstall shortcut when the program is
already listed in the Add/Remove applet) lets me configure the Start
Menu how *I* want it to appear. I can sort the tiles into groups (and
subgrouping is possible albeit with tiny icons), but tiles are a clumsy
way to organize the programs how *I* want into a tree menu. The
alphabetical list and tiles were designed for boobs, especially those
that never customized their Start Menu, so it was one big flat single
Programs folder where the user had to scan up and down with their eyes
trying to find a program. A single folder (Programs) was a messy way to
organize the programs, like tossing all your paper documents into a
plastic bin instead of organizing them into folders in the folder drawer
in your desk.

I might eventually use Start 10 to give me a better Start Menu, but
after I've spent awhile learning the crappy one that Microsoft provided.
To help others means knowing what the standard looks like and how it
works. Using the computers of others means I cannot rely and should not
expect them to use my same tweaking of the Start Menu. If you only have
a few programs, tossing them into the same container isn't much of an
issue. I have LOTS of programs, so organizing them lets me find them
faster. In fact, with the standard Start Menu in Windows 10, I've found
myself using the Cortana search box to find the apps then bother with
the Start Menu. Sad when a search is faster than using a well-organized
menu. Next will be Microsoft trying to somehow figure out how they can
migrate their context-sensitive ribbon bar to the Start Menu: the Start
Menu will change its content depending on what you are doing at the time
instead of what you actually intend to do next.

I can put a cushioned cover on the steering wheel to give me a better
grip and let me hold it when exposed to the sun on a hot summer day upon
returning to my many-hour parked car, but I still should know how to use
the steering wheel and all the controls on it.

On Fri, 24 May 2019 10:11:39 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

[snip]

Those constant changes, I find, simply keep you having to relearn
different areas of the system, which is a waste of your time if you are
trying to be efficient in your use of the system as part of a business
situation.

Quite. I am using Windows 7. Windows Explorer works a bit
differently between 7 and XP. In XP, I could click on a directory
name in the left pane (IIRC) and get the subdirectories displayed. In
7, I have to double-click. I frequently chase through directory
structures so this double-clicking is a waste of time. It is not a
huge thing, but it is noticeable and I think it was totally
unnecessary to change.

Why was it changed? It occurs to me that this change might even
have been accidental.

[snip]

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

On Fri, 24 May 2019 08:23:02 -0400, Paul
wrote:

nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

What can I do to make it more like previous windows version so I do not
have a big learning curve.

Tanks in advance.
My personal opinion is to learn how to use the system rather than trying
to add 3rd party tools to change it. Microsoft is making constant
changes and there is no love lost if any of these things break. To
them, it's there system to do what they want.
Those constant changes, I find, simply keep you having to relearn
different areas of the system, which is a waste of your time if you are
trying to be efficient in your use of the system as part of a business
situation.
Yet a surprising number of cries for help on this newsgroup come from
people who have installed 3rd party software or made nonstandard mods
to Windows to make it look and feel like some earlie version of
Windows to which they have got used. It has always puzzled me as I
would have thought that it is no harder to learn how to use whatever
MS has offered than it it is to work out how to make it behave like
something else.

people hate change.

People want productivity. They expect to use
muscle memory to get work done.

My first computer was an IBM 1620.

My second computer was an ICT 1300

My third computer was a Cromemco Z-3

My fourth computer was an AT&T 3B2

My fifth computer was a PC of some kind running DOS

My sixth computer was a Wyse AT

.... and so on.

All of this took place over 58 years and I hate to think how I would
have got on if I had not been able to retrain my muscle memory several
times.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Fri, 24 May 2019 10:24:49 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

On 5/24/2019 8:23 AM, Paul wrote:
People want productivity. They expect to use
muscle memory to get work done.
That is the point, why spend the additional time trying to keep the look
of an old OS version, when you can learn the new systems and start using
the system as soon as the update is installed.

While there are thing I like and don't like about Windows 10, I would
rather use it to do the job at hand rather that constantly fussing with
it and third party software just so I don't have to learn something new.

You would still have to learn the third party software. This is why it
seems to me to be such a waste of time.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Wed, 22 May 2019 17:08:07 -0400, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Paul
wrote:

A lot of it is the permissions model, which 30% of users just
cannot stand to deal with. Lots of "why can't I write here"
"why can't I write there" and "why do I keep having to click
this UAC prompt" questions. This is conceptually hard to
explain to people, how crap like that could possibly keep
them safe. Knowledgeable IT guys call this "Security Theater",
which tells you what it's all worth in the end.

First thing I do when I add a new *data* drive is set "Everyone" to full
control and tell it to inherit downward. Do not overwrite everything
beneath it though; it'll screw up the Recycle Bin for some reason (which
you fix by deleting the $RECYCLE.BIN directory and then deleting
something, it'll repopulate the directory with the right ACL).

I've come to no harm, so far.

Only thing on my system with default ACLs is the system drive. There is
some benefit to users not being able to see anyone else's home folder.
There is also a benefit to applications being protected by the "Program
Files" directories. That's owned by "TrustedInstaller."

But games, for instance, go on the "everyone" drive. So do large file
archives. If all you're doing is storage, and not personal information or
application installs, there's no point to a restrictive ACL. That only
means you might have to jump through hoops to get access if you stick the
drive in another machine.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On Wed, 22 May 2019 11:01:22 -0700, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Knightly
wrote:

New to windows 10 and do not like it.

What can I do to make it more like previous windows version so I do not
have a big learning curve.

Tanks in advance.

Start10 by Stardock will do the trick for the Start menu.

Good luck if you're a power user. You'll have to figure out, version by
version, which settings are in the Control Panel and which are in the
Settings app.

Pinning the Control Panel shortcut to the taskbar helps a lot, though.

Win+X is your friend. It brings up the power user menu.

Also, you can change File Explorer to show you "This PC" by default,
instead of the "Quick Access" page by choosing: [View tab] "Options,"
"Change folder and search options" and choosing "This PC" in the drop
down menu labeled "Open File Explorer to:"

I'm afraid you're stuck with the ribbon for programs that have it.

Pin stuff to your taskbar a lot. There's more than enough room.

You can also get rid of a lot of taskbar noise by right clicking on it
and doing things like setting "Search" or "Cortana," "Task View" and
"People" to off.

There are other things that can be done using the utility ShutUp10, like
turning off Cortana entirely, and ditching OneDrive, if you are so
inclined.

https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Zaghadka wrote:

Start10 by Stardock will do the trick for the Start menu.

Plenty of people used start8 or classic shell with Win8.x, myself included.

But I get the feeling that most Win10 users simply learn to use the new
start menu, pin stuff and get on with it, it's different but not bad.

Those who refuse to move on from a WinXP/Win7 start menu then turn up
here asking why "such-and-such" doesn't work, while carefully avoiding
any mention of the fact that they've installed an alternate start
menu/shell replacement.

On 25/05/2019 10:22, Eric Stevens wrote:
All of this took place over 58 years and I hate to think how I would
have got on if I had not been able to retrain my muscle memory several
times.
You are a kiwi so that might explain it. Americans and Canadians "Small
Boys Abusers" are scarred of anything new. They are too thick to learn
anything but they are quite good at copying or dare I say steal
somebody's intellectual property. Recently Donald Trump has decided
that Americans should avoid using Huawei 5G phone because it is too
difficult to know how it is made!!. So they came out with some excuse
saying it is a security risk.

Do you remember they also said the same thing about Windows XP, Windows
Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8/8.1 and now Windows 10. Frankly, I have just
given up on these idiots. You can't train them to think outside the box.

I don't see any difference between windows XP, Vista, 7, 8/8.1 or 10.
Interface has changed but beneath the bonnet the engine is still the
same with some extra functions which users can ignore them if they find
it too difficult to use them. The basic functionality is still the
same. Microsoft should have removed the tiles (by default) from 10 or
8.1 and just call it Windows without the 10 and these idiots would have
thought it is still Windows 7. Then they would have said there isn't
much difference between 7 and 10 (apart from colours) so there is no
need to upgrade!!! There you go working with these idiots.







--
With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

On 25/05/2019 11:40, Zaghadka wrote:
Good luck if you're a power user. You'll have to figure out, version
by version, which settings are in the Control Panel and which are in
the Settings app.

Because you are an idiot who can't use the search bar located in the
task bar. There are idiots here they have removed it because they
thought it is a privacy risk but it is a very useful tool when Windows
10 is nearly 30GB big. there is no way anybody can remember
everything; You just need to use them so that it gets embedded into
your brain, but idiots don't have a brain so it is futile to suggest
this here.

right clicking on it and doing things like setting "Search" or
"Cortana," "Task View" and "People" to off.
I told you so. you are a complete idiot to suggest this. Search bar is
a very useful tool in Windows 10.

There are other things that can be done using the utility ShutUp10,
like turning off Cortana entirely,

See another stupid suggestion to add a malware that can crash the system
and blame Microsoft for making a buggy OS. all the problems we see here
are people listening to you and people like you installing all sorts of
3rd party tools without knowing who is releasing them FREE and why and
stupidly, removing everything created by Microsoft or Google or Amazon
because they hate these conglomerates.


--
With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

On Sat, 25 May 2019 21:24:18 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Fri, 24 May 2019 10:24:49 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

On 5/24/2019 8:23 AM, Paul wrote:
People want productivity. They expect to use
muscle memory to get work done.
That is the point, why spend the additional time trying to keep the look
of an old OS version, when you can learn the new systems and start using
the system as soon as the update is installed.

While there are thing I like and don't like about Windows 10, I would
rather use it to do the job at hand rather that constantly fussing with
it and third party software just so I don't have to learn something new.

You would still have to learn the third party software. This is why it
seems to me to be such a waste of time.

There really isn't anything to learn. You just get a series of
checkboxes, usually, and you select the things you want to fix, then hit
Apply. A couple of minutes spent there will save you countless minutes
later.

nospam wrote:
In article , Char Jackson
wrote:

In the cases of Windows 8 and 10, most of the changes (UI and system)
did not make things better, and that's why many people went back to
Windows 7 or used a tweaker tool to fix the many annoyances. I'm
referring to people who knew that they had those options. The vast
majority just buy a computer and use it, oblivious to any possibility of
improving it.

win10 definitely makes things much better for most things.

win8 not so much. trying to unify desktop and mobile is destined to
fail. microsoft learned a lot from that.

Personally, if I create a Win10 VM that I'm only going to use for a few
days, I leave it untouched. It's painful and awkward to use, but it's
short term pain. If it's a VM that I expect to keep around for a while,
you can bet I'm going to fix what I think is wrong with it.

In a way, I admire people who use Windows 10 just as it comes. In any
society, there are always a few people like that. Fortunately for me,
I'm not one of them.

that's fine. no product is suited for everyone, nor should it be.


Except an OS with the install base as Windows does. By definition is has to
suit all of its 1-2 billion installed users. Problem is it can't, as the
win XP and 7 hold-outs attest.

It's huge dominance is a huge strength, but also a massive problem as it
limits MS's options between versions. Hence why 8 was such a disaster, too
many changes in one go.

Also Windows improvements are mostly artificial now. There is no reason
other than lack of support to move from Windows 7. In many places 10 is
just a skin on top of 7 tools. Especially the control panel or settings as
it's called now. That's why they've said 10 is going to be their last OS;
there's little to justify paid updates and it causes fragmentation. Apple
solved this a long time ago by making macOS and iOS free upgrades.