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#46
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Good News for Windows XP Users...
On 05/06/2014 04:18 PM, Alek Trishan wrote:
Good Guy has written on 5/6/2014 3:57 PM: On 06/05/2014 14:45, Caver1 wrote: What work can't you do in Linux? File my Tax Returns and to do my Accounts. What Windows programs do you use to do those? There are several. -- Caver1 |
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#47
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Good News for Windows XP Users...
Caver1 wrote:
I just read a posting form someone who loves Windows and it took him 4 hours to install Windows 8.1. He wanted to make sure that nothing went wrong. He was worried. Heck it takes longer just to download Windows updates than it takes Linux to download them and install them. Caver1 Of course we're going to find different ways to do things here. Why would you come here, if we didn't explore the terrain for you ? Every environment has its easy way and its hard way. Want easy Linux ? Adopt Ubuntu, and get your free Amazon tracking. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/1...and-data-leaks Want Linux your way - the hard way ? Build Linux from scratch, using well-written Gentoo documentation. Only takes around ten hours on a relatively weak PC. By doing it yourself, you can have it any way you like, with things like PulseAudio removed (so your copy of TVTime will work). Paul |
#48
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Good News for Windows XP Users...
On Tue, 06 May 2014 23:41:04 -0400, Caver1
wrote: I just read a posting form someone who loves Windows and it took him 4 hours to install Windows 8.1. He wanted to make sure that nothing went wrong. He was worried. Heck it takes longer just to download Windows updates than it takes Linux to download them and install them. For a moment I wondered if you might be referring to me, but then I realised I don't think I've ever completed any Windows installation since 3.1 in as *little* as 4 hours. I usually set aside half a day before I expect to have a usable system. For Linux it's usually less than half an hour. Rod. |
#49
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Good News for Windows XP Users...
Caver1 has written on 5/6/2014 11:49 PM:
On 05/06/2014 04:18 PM, Alek Trishan wrote: Good Guy has written on 5/6/2014 3:57 PM: On 06/05/2014 14:45, Caver1 wrote: What work can't you do in Linux? File my Tax Returns and to do my Accounts. What Windows programs do you use to do those? There are several. Would you be so kind as to name a few? |
#50
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Good News for Windows XP Users...
Caver1 wrote:
On 05/06/2014 01:28 PM, Silver Slimer wrote: On 14-05-06 06:28 AM, mechanic wrote: On Tue, 6 May 2014 05:12:18 -0500, BillW50 wrote: So I've never found one killer app for Linux in all of these years. Shotwell? Nothing better on Windows or Linux (don't know about Apple). The problem with GNU/Linux killer apps is that they're not exclusive in any way. Shotwell is nice, so is Handbrake and LibreOffice. They're all free but they're also available for other operating systems. For something to be a killer app, it has to be exclusive and in this case, no GNU/Linux software is. That doesn't mean that Windows is better. None of the "Killer" apps in Windows is free or multi platform. So Linux supplies good software for everybody. Windows doesn't. Not all Linux software is multi platform. So some GNU/Linux software is. I'm surprise in this day and age, we would waste time on the "better" aspect. Why are we still wasting time on such discussions ? All popular operating systems now, use preemptive multitasking. And a robust split between kernel and userspace. So the core of the OS is rather the same. Boringly the same. So boring in fact, that companies can spin new versions... and get stuff wrong. We have to be content comparing the graphical decorations, the size of the icons, whether we swipe from the left or the right. How boring... What Linux lacks, is commercial focus. No more or no less. Canonical is just inept. They do a good job on delivering a product (i.e. the "little people" are skilled - it's not their fault). But proper direction is missing at the top. There are likely companies that have done a better job, but "they don't advertise". Nobody has a customer focus. What do customers want ? What can we do to attract customers ? Canonical certainly doesn't waste any time on that. They just do stuff to **** people off. ******* There was a FUD article recently, on smart phones. And how all the innovations were over, the playing field was flat, and it was a matter of making a phone the right color or the right shape. And you can see how the desktop part of computing, could easily receive a scathing article like that as well. Stale. Boring. The only excitement for users comes, when their support is killed (this happens with both Windows and Linux, so neither is free from this aspect - if the Linux folks wanted, I could be running package manager for Ubuntu 7.04 and it would continue to deliver apps when I want them.) So why are we wasting our time on these advocacy discussions ? The only thing worth discussing, is why nobody is able to take a leadership role, and deliver anything. Is it that the market is too small ? The market is not worth owning ? I don't get it. All the ingredients are there, but nothing is happening. Instead, mobile devices come along as a displacement technology, and everyone else just sits back on their haunches. The last time I checked, there were some things that don't work well on a small screen. Why would we expect to kill those off, and stare into a 3" screen, scrolling left and right, up and down as we work ? There s still room for other kinds of devices. ******* The next innovation could have been VR, but that's kinda ruined now, by the Facebook purchase. I wonder if anyone in the OS side of things, is at all interested (3D GUI) ? At least with a desktop environment (chair and table), and a VR headset, you won't be walking into the furniture :-) Paul |
#51
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Good News for Windows XP Users...
On Tue, 06 May 2014 13:06:40 -0700, Todd wrote:
On 05/06/2014 12:57 PM, Good Guy wrote: On 06/05/2014 14:45, Caver1 wrote: What work can't you do in Linux? Obviously really haven't really used you Linux for work. Especially lately. File my Tax Returns This must be just a US problem? In the UK the HMRC website has a faciltiy to put together and file a tax return, using any sensible browser on Linux. |
#52
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Good News for Windows XP Users...
op 06-05-14 01:25, BillW50 schreef:
In , Aka typed: cut I have transformed my slow (8 years old) Windows XP notebook into a speedy Linux Mint one, at no costs, including Libre Office. I don't know why your 8 year old notebook is so slow? As this laptop is also 8 years old and boots XP in 20 seconds (thanks to SSD technology). These machines also runs Vista, 7, and 8 well too. And it is currently docked and using an external 23 inch monitor on an Ergotron desk arm and I can float the monitor anywhere on the desk I want. I can even drop the monitor in my lap. Hmm... maybe a 27 inch touch screen monitor might be my next purchase. :-) ================================================== My Asus notebook configuration made it unsuitable (insufficient memory, mainly) for upgrading to Windows 8. And it (Windows XP) became a sluggard as time went by, I guess because of Windows' notorious incapability of keeping its kernel pristine. Programs like Ccleaner were of no help. And no SSD! So for people with a limited budget and who would need to buy a new computer otherwise, Linux Mint etc. may be a godsend. There is no need to install it right away - just test it with a self-starting dvd to see whether all gadgets on your computer still work. I found no software button to start my webcam (Bisoncam), but using the VLC Media Player my own face appeared on the screen, so Skype I hope will also function once installed. I have not yet tested the Windows emulation programs of Linux, e.g. Wine, since for the moment I have no need for Windows-only programs. Down with ever-bloating Windows! And virus scanners... Regards, Aka |
#53
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Good News for Windows XP Users...
On 14-05-06 10:55 PM, Caver1 wrote:
On 05/06/2014 01:28 PM, Silver Slimer wrote: On 14-05-06 06:28 AM, mechanic wrote: On Tue, 6 May 2014 05:12:18 -0500, BillW50 wrote: So I've never found one killer app for Linux in all of these years. Shotwell? Nothing better on Windows or Linux (don't know about Apple). The problem with GNU/Linux killer apps is that they're not exclusive in any way. Shotwell is nice, so is Handbrake and LibreOffice. They're all free but they're also available for other operating systems. For something to be a killer app, it has to be exclusive and in this case, no GNU/Linux software is. That doesn't mean that Windows is better. None of the "Killer" apps in Windows is free or multi platform. So Linux supplies good software for everybody. Windows doesn't. Not all Linux software is multi platform. So some GNU/Linux software is. Oh, clearly Windows isn't better. I'll just give you an example of how it might be worse. This laptop I'm posting on was bought in 2010. It was retired earlier this year in favour of a Windows 8 laptop which I quickly put aside because of its slow performance and lack of ports. I therefore revived it and installed a new WD Black 7200RPM HD to replace the dead Seagate it came with. The new HD, for whatever reason, prevented the system's recovery discs from installing the OS. Installed Windows 7 on its own using the product key underneath the laptop worked but obviously was lacking some bundled software I liked. After two days though, Windows was popping up a message telling me that the battery on the laptop, which has never been disconnected since 2010, was incompatible with the device or badly connected. Meanwhile, Ubuntu works beautifully. I'm actually a Windows advocate in most cases, but what happened to me with this laptop and Windows 7 is so insulting that I'm considering moving to Ubuntu on all of my machines and never looking back. -- Silver Slimer Wikipedia & OpenMedia Supporter |
#54
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Good News for Windows XP Users...
On 05/07/2014 12:11 AM, Paul wrote:
Caver1 wrote: Of course we're going to find different ways to do things here. Why would you come here, if we didn't explore the terrain for you ? I come here to see problems/solutions as I have to upkeep some Windows computers. Every environment has its easy way and its hard way. True. Want easy Linux ? Adopt Ubuntu, and get your free Amazon tracking. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/1...and-data-leaks All you have to do is disable it. Very easy to do and some people like that feature. Don't know why. Also don't know why it wasn't opt in instead of opt out. In windows 8'1 choose a program to open a file. That file is opened when you download it automatically if you want it to or not. Doesn't give you the choice. Maybe you didn't want to open it right then. Maybe you wanted to get some information off the description box first. It won't open in Linux until you want it to. So you try to disassociate from that or any program so you con view it. Can't in Windows. Can in Linux. Just one example. Want Linux your way - the hard way ? Build Linux from scratch, using well-written Gentoo documentation. Only takes around ten hours on a relatively weak PC. By doing it yourself, Then don't do it on a relatively week PC. Why do it at all? with Ubuntu and some other Distro's you don't even have to use the command line if you don't want to. Windows doesn't give you the choice to build it your way IF you want to. you can have it any way you like, with things like PulseAudio removed (so your copy of TVTime will work). Paul That's right anyway you like. G o ahead and remove Pulse adio and break other programs. Or "alsamixer was initially set to Card: Pulse (which is the default) - I hit F6 to select a Sound Card - there were 3 options: 0 HDA Intel MID 1 HD-Audio Generic 2 Conexant CX8811 I selected option 0 - and checked "Line" (which is what the external wire from the tv tuner is plugged into) and it was unmuted and 100% volume. I then noticed there were more input options then presented in Kmix and Gnome Alsa Mixer - i scrolled to the right and noticed "Loopback" - i selected it and hit enter to unmute and I not only got TV audio but the quality was excellent. I then fired up TvTime and checked the sync between the video and audio and it appears to be in sync as well. Then; $ amixer -D hw:0 set 'Loopback Mixing' Enabled numid=14,iface=MIXER,name='Loopback Mixing' ; type=ENUMERATED,access=rw------,values=1,items=2 ; Item #0 'Disabled' ; Item #1 'Enabled' : values=0" -- Caver1 |
#55
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Good News for Windows XP Users...
On 05/07/2014 01:00 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 23:41:04 -0400, Caver1 wrote: I just read a posting form someone who loves Windows and it took him 4 hours to install Windows 8.1. He wanted to make sure that nothing went wrong. He was worried. Heck it takes longer just to download Windows updates than it takes Linux to download them and install them. For a moment I wondered if you might be referring to me, but then I realised I don't think I've ever completed any Windows installation since 3.1 in as *little* as 4 hours. I usually set aside half a day before I expect to have a usable system. For Linux it's usually less than half an hour. Rod. -- Caver1 |
#56
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Good News for Windows XP Users...
On 05/07/2014 01:45 AM, Paul wrote:
All popular operating systems now, use preemptive multitasking. And a robust split between kernel and userspace. So the core of the OS is rather the same. Boringly the same. So boring in fact, that companies can spin new versions... and get stuff wrong. Windows spins new versions theirself. Linux others do it. Linux gives you that option. Linux itself gives new versions of the kernel-new updates,features,security features,drivers... and such. Linux itself does not do graphical interfaces. Canonical,RedHat,other and individuals do. Not arguing the wrong part. But Linux distros (the more well supported such as RedHat, Canonical) Patch theirs faster than Windows does most of the time. We have to be content comparing the graphical decorations, the size of the icons, whether we swipe from the left or the right. How boring... There is quite a bit of difference in the desktop environments in Linux distros. KDE, Gnome, Lxe, etc. Depending on on the users preferences and hardware. Windows, take Xp, or 8.1 for instance, only have a difference in versions on how much money you want to spend. More money means more features. Doesn't matter on your likes or dislikes,can't change preferences within versions. Yes you can change some minor things but nothing major) or the hardware you are on. In fact most of the time you have to upgrade you hardware. What Linux lacks, is commercial focus. No more or no less. Canonical is just inept. They do a good job on delivering a product (i.e. the "little people" are skilled - it's not their fault). That is true to the fact that some people don't like Canonical's leadership. As far as product it is very good for more than the computer geeks.In it's desktop environment you can use it as is, never use the command line if you don't want, and add feature you do want. Minor one's or major if you want. It is built for all people. Not all distros are. Some are built for specific purposes, such as Scientific Linux as an example. It was built by the scientific community for stability and for customization those in the know for their purposes. But proper direction is missing at the top. There are likely companies that have done a better job, but "they don't advertise". Nobody has a customer focus. What do customers want ? What can we do to attract customers ? Canonical certainly doesn't waste any time on that. They just do stuff to **** people off. ******* I agree. Microsoft also helped in the begging by not letting manufacturers have Windows if they also loaded other OS's on computers. Killed of several non Linux OS's and crippled knowledge that Linux even existed. Now that is a huge hurdle to get over as that most people don't want to change from what they have learned regardless of the problems they have. There was a FUD article recently, on smart phones. And how all the innovations were over, the playing field was flat, and it was a matter of making a phone the right color or the right shape. And you can see how the desktop part of computing, could easily receive a scathing article like that as well. Stale. Boring. The only excitement for users comes, when their support is killed (this happens with both Windows and Linux, so neither is free from this aspect - if the Linux folks wanted, I could be running package manager for Ubuntu 7.04 and it would continue to deliver apps when I want them.) They could upgrade without full reinstall if they keep updating in Linux. After all there could be some major security problems in 7.04, we are up to 14.04 now. Been many improvements.Updating in Linux usually will not give you the head aches that Windows does quite often. And you have to reboot after an update to Windows much more often than in Windows. You can keep using Linux while it is updating. Linux will add the updates to a program you are usingat the time when you shut down. No data lost.. Not Windows. Windows quite often makes you do a complete reinstall to update to a new version regardless if you kept up to date or not. So why are we wasting our time on these advocacy discussions ? The only thing worth discussing, is why nobody is able to take a leadership role, and deliver anything. Is it that the market is too small ? The market is not worth owning ? I don't get it. All the ingredients are there, but nothing is happening. Instead, mobile devices come along as a displacement technology, and everyone else just sits back on their haunches. The last time I checked, there were some things that don't work well on a small screen. Why would we expect to kill those off, and stare into a 3" screen, scrolling left and right, up and down as we work ? There s still room for other kinds of devices. ******* The only time I get into it is when someone tries to totally trash Linux. I agree many,young ones especially, Try to do all there computing on their phones or tablets in the cloud. They have /no idea how much more powerful a desktop/laptop is. Windows or Linux. Most of the spending public is now the young ones. Us older people are satisfied with what we have. After all most of us has much more computing power than we need. The next innovation could have been VR, but that's kinda ruined now, by the Facebook purchase. I wonder if anyone in the OS side of things, is at all interested (3D GUI) ? At least with a desktop environment (chair and table), and a VR headset, you won't be walking into the furniture :-) Paul The VR purchase by Facebook was one company and has little to do with desktop VR. Virtual box on servers and desktop is very alive. -- Caver1 |
#57
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Good News for Windows XP Users...
On 05/07/2014 09:13 AM, Silver Slimer wrote:
On 14-05-06 10:55 PM, Caver1 wrote: On 05/06/2014 01:28 PM, Silver Slimer wrote: On 14-05-06 06:28 AM, mechanic wrote: On Tue, 6 May 2014 05:12:18 -0500, BillW50 wrote: So I've never found one killer app for Linux in all of these years. Shotwell? Nothing better on Windows or Linux (don't know about Apple). The problem with GNU/Linux killer apps is that they're not exclusive in any way. Shotwell is nice, so is Handbrake and LibreOffice. They're all free but they're also available for other operating systems. For something to be a killer app, it has to be exclusive and in this case, no GNU/Linux software is. That doesn't mean that Windows is better. None of the "Killer" apps in Windows is free or multi platform. So Linux supplies good software for everybody. Windows doesn't. Not all Linux software is multi platform. So some GNU/Linux software is. Oh, clearly Windows isn't better. I'll just give you an example of how it might be worse. This laptop I'm posting on was bought in 2010. It was retired earlier this year in favour of a Windows 8 laptop which I quickly put aside because of its slow performance and lack of ports. I therefore revived it and installed a new WD Black 7200RPM HD to replace the dead Seagate it came with. The new HD, for whatever reason, prevented the system's recovery discs from installing the OS. Installed Windows 7 on its own using the product key underneath the laptop worked but obviously was lacking some bundled software I liked. After two days though, Windows was popping up a message telling me that the battery on the laptop, which has never been disconnected since 2010, was incompatible with the device or badly connected. Meanwhile, Ubuntu works beautifully. I'm actually a Windows advocate in most cases, but what happened to me with this laptop and Windows 7 is so insulting that I'm considering moving to Ubuntu on all of my machines and never looking back. Use what works. I am a full time Linux user. but I do have to maintain some Windows machines. Only reason I'm here. Retired also. -- Caver1 |
#58
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Good News for Windows XP Users...
On Wed, 07 May 2014 12:41:08 +0200, Aka wrote:
My Asus notebook configuration made it unsuitable (insufficient memory, mainly) for upgrading to Windows 8. And it (Windows XP) became a sluggard as time went by, I guess because of Windows' notorious incapability of keeping its kernel pristine. Programs like Ccleaner were of no help. And no SSD! So for people with a limited budget and who would need to buy a new computer otherwise, Linux Mint etc. may be a godsend. There is no need to install it right away - just test it with a self-starting dvd to see whether all gadgets on your computer still work. If you want something to replace Windows XP on an older machine, you might also like to try Lubuntu and Xubuntu. Lubuntu in particular is designed as a simple "no frills" system that shouldn't make excessive demands on the hardware in order to generate fancy screen effects, but it looks neat and does the job. A Windows user should have no trouble becoming accustomed to it. Rod. |
#59
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Good News for Windows XP Users...
On 14-05-06 11:35 PM, Caver1 wrote:
On 05/06/2014 03:08 PM, BillW50 wrote: On 05/06/2014 11:32 AM, Caver1 wrote: On 05/06/2014 12:07 PM, BillW50 wrote: "Caver1" wrote in message ... On 05/06/2014 06:12 AM, BillW50 wrote: Sure, it is the OS that is crazier than a three-ring circus with 306 distros and counting. The Linux community doesn't believe in standardization either. Because there wouldn't be 300+ distros if they did. And it is very tough to write applications that would run on 300+ distros. So you end up with many lame basic applications like Firefox, Thunderbird, LibreOffice, VLC, etc. Hell Android, iOS, Windows RT, Palm OS, etc can do that stuff too. So I've never found one killer app for Linux in all of these years. Wow! I had to dig up my old post because whatever you used to quote it sure screwed it up. Compare the above to your quoted version. Big difference. You're fooling only yourself. I didn't quote anything. That was a direct follow up to the newsgroup. Go back and look at it again there is no difference. If there is prove it. Yeah well you are going to have to wait. As Thunderbird under Windows and Linux isn't showing your original post at all. That's funny I can see it in Thunderbird in Linux. Your's also. Anyways the point was to prove what you said not me. Still can't can you? You only have to write for a Linux desktop environment such as KDE, Gnome. Then a distribution that uses that desktop environment can use it. There is no reason to try to think you have to write for a specific distribution. The Linux kernel Is written so that a user can customize it easily for his/her needs or wants. Such as Cern, Pixar, Nasa, me, just to name a few. Naw it is a huge mess. Touch screens for example is now the new fade (maybe one that will last for generations to come). Virtually all OS support it right out of the box. But not Linux! Linux is that OS that always lags behind everything else. Try to get Linux to learn a new trick is like a pulling a lazy donkey while it kicks and screams. Like I said You haven't really used Linux especially recently. Look at your comment below. " Even this distro is outdated..." If you keep current with Windows and use Linux why don't you keep current with Linux? Really? This looks like Linux. It works like Linux. Go figure. Works pretty good doesn't it? If you regularly use Linux why are you so down on it. And since you are so down on Linux why don't you stay with Windows? How do I know you're not using an user agent spoofer? And it remains very stable. Unlike MS which will not let you see their code, and is not as stable. My Windows machines are all stable. Although I am not into beta testing the latest and greatest Windows versions. I wait until they have been proven stable. It is not as stable as Linux and you run into many more problems with windows- bloatware, viruses, update problems, errors that can't be figured out by anyone so the suggestion is to reload windows and start over. I can go on from there. Really? I usually install Windows once and that is it and I am done. Not so with Linux. Even this distro is outdated and I need to wipe it out and to start all over again. Although I get really tired of this crap from Linux. It is like driving on the same road that is always under construction. I have been using Linux for years and never reinstalled an OS. Just do a search and see how many times a Windows user has had to reinstall. I also do maintenance on Windows machines. I'm not ignorant of that OS. Why haven't you kept it updated? If you stay with the same root OS (Debian,Redhat, etc.) All you have to do is keep your /Home partition and load the new distro and you're fine. Unless you are trying to keep your /Home from a 15 year old system. Things have progressed. Crap? How about Windows? How many versions have they had? And how many times has their software been updated and not compatible with the previous version? Needed a Patch to fix the problem, several times. Office software in the free software can usually import/export in many formats. Such as Corel file types,Linux file tyoes, all of the different Windows file types. Windows can't. As far as I know you like the outdated stuff. WordStar, Palm. What else? You're right about the /home directory. People will point to the fact that it is recommended that you completely reinstall the OS at every new version (generally every six months) but I believe the upgrade process has become seamless in the past few years and the recommendation no longer applies. Besides, even if you DID have to reinstall every six months, making sure that the /home remains untouched will prevent you from losing any kind of data. However, this six-month reinstall process is actually something I like because it ensures that a rather recent version of the operating system is always available. Unlike installing Windows 7 or 8 and then going through hours of updating (it literally takes me a day with Windows 7), if you install a recent version of a distribution in say 20 minutes, you already have much of the most recent software and even if you don't, the update process is done ONCE and everything is updated in that one cycle. This is a gigantic advantage. -- Silver Slimer Wikipedia & OpenMedia Supporter |
#60
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Good News for Windows XP Users...
On 14-05-07 01:00 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 23:41:04 -0400, Caver1 wrote: I just read a posting form someone who loves Windows and it took him 4 hours to install Windows 8.1. He wanted to make sure that nothing went wrong. He was worried. Heck it takes longer just to download Windows updates than it takes Linux to download them and install them. For a moment I wondered if you might be referring to me, but then I realised I don't think I've ever completed any Windows installation since 3.1 in as *little* as 4 hours. I usually set aside half a day before I expect to have a usable system. For Linux it's usually less than half an hour. Reinstalling Windows is literally the most annoying process a human being can go through. I'm surprised it only took you half a day to complete it. I generally require a whole day. -- Silver Slimer Wikipedia & OpenMedia Supporter |
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