Multi-Boot Configuration Setup

I've been running Win-XP Home for several years now and the time has come
for a fresh install on a new hard drive. (Hard drive issues).

I bought a new Drive, 160GB as well as WinXP-Pro retail upgrade.

I'd like to setup a multi-boot configuration and would like someone to
look-over my shoulder and give a little advise.

This is what I think I want to do...

Remove all hardware, PCI and external devices (except video card).

a) Partition the new "Basic" drive as follows via XP-Pro CD...
Partition #1 = Drive "C" = 25GB and set as "Active" , Label as
"WinXP-Pro1".
Install WinXP-Pro (to partition #1).
Boot-up and cancel all "Found New Hardware" messages.
Confirm that the page file is sized the way I want.
Install Chipset Drivers.
Install Application Accelerator.
Reboot to let "Found New Hardware" install system (onboard)
drivers.
or....
Open Device Manager and "Scan for hardware changes".
Install Video Driver (nVidia reference driver).
Cancel all Windows Activation messages. (till the job is
successfully complete).

b) Via Windows drive Mgr, create a new Partition.
Partition #2 = Drive "D" = 25GB and set as "Active" , Label as
"WinXP-Pro2".
With WinXP-Pro running, reinsert the XP CD and choose to do a
"Custom" install.
Direct the 2nd install towards the 2nd partition.
This should create a multi-boot configuration.
Follow the steps as above (a) to bring both installs to the
same state.

Go To... StartSettingsControl PanelSystemAdvancedStartup And
RecoverySettingsSystem Startup and select the "edit" button to edit the
boot.ini file and give each install a unique name to list on the boot menu.

Open Disk Mgr. and create a new extended (dos) partition to use the
remaining 110GB +/-.
Via Disk Mgr. Create a "Logical" drive "E" = 30GB and label as "Programs".

- Install network card, log-on to each install, install network
drivers/setup ISP.
- Install Sound Card, log-on to each install, install drivers and target
audio software towards the "E" "Programs" logical drive.
- One-at-a-time, install remaining PCI devices and a printer in each of the
installs.
(target all software to install onto the "E" "Programs" logical drive.)
(each OS install will share the same program files).
- Log-on to each install and run MS Windows update.

Via Disk Mgr., format the remaining 80GB +/- in the extended partition as a
new logical drive labeled "Documents".

The idea is that I will have two (2) installs of XP-Pro, one as a "safe
haven" and the other where I can play "hard-ball", or test new software and
hardware. In other words, just have fun and not worry about messing things
up.

I'm certainly open to suggestions, I've never heard of anyone doing this
but, according to the Microsoft Windows XP Inside Out eBook, it can be done.

But doing this leads me to my next set of questions...

1) Can WinXP be "activated" more than once on the same PC?
If so, is there a limit to the number of installs?

2) Can Norton Internet Security 2006 ( product registration and 1
anti-virus subscription) be installed in both OS Installs?
I assume I'll need to run "Norton Live Update" from both installs.

Any help and ideas anyone has to offer would be appreciated!

Best regards and Happy Holidays,

Richard in Va.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hello John,

Thanks for the quick reply!

I don't recall the Microsoft Windows XP Inside Out eBook stating that the 2
XP install had to be a separately purchased operating system.

And I certainly don't want to upset big Bill. I just assumed that because
both installs would be on the same PC that it would be allowable because I
could only "use" one at a time. My intention is to have one (1) install as a
safe backup and the 2nd for everyday use, knowing that eventually I'll have
it all loaded and bogged down again. I can un-install applications all day
and the un-installer will leave bits and pieces of the application all over
the place. Including the registry file. (Wonder why that is?)

Anyway, I own a copy Norton Internet Security 2006 and System Works 2006. I
also own a copy of System Suite 6 Professional by Vcom. Part of my
intention was to install each in a separate install of XP-Pro. If one gets
corrupted, I could clean thing back up with the other. I've always been an
avid user of NIS/NSW, but recently I've been using Vcom to clean up where
NIS let me down. I like many of the features and cleanup tools Vcom offers.
However, it's my understanding that because both have virus protection and a
fire wall as a part of the package that I can have only one installed. Is
there a work around for this? Can I install both but turn-off (disable) the
anti-virus and fire wall I don't want to use?

I guess my only other option short of buying something else is to install
XP-Home on one partition and XP-Pro on the other to keep Bill happy.

Thanks for your links!
I'll look through those tonight or tomorrow!

Best regards,

Richard in Va.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"John Barnett MVP" wrote in message
...
Richard, take a look at my website http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org Click
the Win XP Faq button and take a look at questions 6, 7 and 41.

The dual boot is simple, using the same copy of XP isn't. The EULA allow 1
copy on a single machine, you would be using the same copy twice which
would invalidate the EULA


--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org

The information in this post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any kind,
either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of
the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
post..



"Richard In Va." wrote in message
...
I've been running Win-XP Home for several years now and the time has come
for a fresh install on a new hard drive. (Hard drive issues).

I bought a new Drive, 160GB as well as WinXP-Pro retail upgrade.

I'd like to setup a multi-boot configuration and would like someone to
look-over my shoulder and give a little advise.

This is what I think I want to do...

Remove all hardware, PCI and external devices (except video card).

a) Partition the new "Basic" drive as follows via XP-Pro CD...
Partition #1 = Drive "C" = 25GB and set as "Active" , Label as
"WinXP-Pro1".
Install WinXP-Pro (to partition #1).
Boot-up and cancel all "Found New Hardware" messages.
Confirm that the page file is sized the way I want.
Install Chipset Drivers.
Install Application Accelerator.
Reboot to let "Found New Hardware" install system (onboard)
drivers.
or....
Open Device Manager and "Scan for hardware changes".
Install Video Driver (nVidia reference driver).
Cancel all Windows Activation messages. (till the job is
successfully complete).

b) Via Windows drive Mgr, create a new Partition.
Partition #2 = Drive "D" = 25GB and set as "Active" , Label as
"WinXP-Pro2".
With WinXP-Pro running, reinsert the XP CD and choose to do a
"Custom" install.
Direct the 2nd install towards the 2nd partition.
This should create a multi-boot configuration.
Follow the steps as above (a) to bring both installs to the
same state.

Go To... StartSettingsControl PanelSystemAdvancedStartup And
RecoverySettingsSystem Startup and select the "edit" button to edit the
boot.ini file and give each install a unique name to list on the boot
menu.

Open Disk Mgr. and create a new extended (dos) partition to use the
remaining 110GB +/-.
Via Disk Mgr. Create a "Logical" drive "E" = 30GB and label as
"Programs".

- Install network card, log-on to each install, install network
drivers/setup ISP.
- Install Sound Card, log-on to each install, install drivers and target
audio software towards the "E" "Programs" logical drive.
- One-at-a-time, install remaining PCI devices and a printer in each of
the installs.
(target all software to install onto the "E" "Programs" logical
drive.)
(each OS install will share the same program files).
- Log-on to each install and run MS Windows update.

Via Disk Mgr., format the remaining 80GB +/- in the extended partition as
a new logical drive labeled "Documents".

The idea is that I will have two (2) installs of XP-Pro, one as a "safe
haven" and the other where I can play "hard-ball", or test new software
and hardware. In other words, just have fun and not worry about messing
things up.

I'm certainly open to suggestions, I've never heard of anyone doing this
but, according to the Microsoft Windows XP Inside Out eBook, it can be
done.

But doing this leads me to my next set of questions...

1) Can WinXP be "activated" more than once on the same PC?
If so, is there a limit to the number of installs?

2) Can Norton Internet Security 2006 ( product registration and 1
anti-virus subscription) be installed in both OS Installs?
I assume I'll need to run "Norton Live Update" from both installs.

Any help and ideas anyone has to offer would be appreciated!

Best regards and Happy Holidays,

Richard in Va.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You're making this way, way too complicated. It's much easier to accomplish
what you want than going through all this hassle.

As far as installing hardware AFTER installation, I'm not all that convinced
this is worth the effort UNLESS the component is non-essential. For
example, I'd keep the sound card, video card, LAN card, etc., all installed.
But I might not install w/ a TV tuner card, wireless adapter, etc. But in
the end, that's up to you. Personally, I would keep most components
installed *if* I knew they would always be part of any OS installation.

As far as multiple OS installation, there's no need for all this complexity.
What you do is use a good boot manager. I use BootIt NG, but there are
others, like XOSL, Boot Magic, etc. These are capable of HIDING partitions,
which is key. The default Windows boot loader cannot, which is what
complicates your multi-boot installation unnecessarily.

If you use BootIt NG (or similar), you simply install WinXP to a partition,
activate it, then image copy it (external HD, DVD/CD, whatever). Again, I
use BootIt NG for this purpose. So now you have a "base image" to which you
always can return. You then CLONE one or more WinXP partition from the base
image (or just COPY from the first partition, depends if you want a pristine
install or not) to new partitions. Using the boot manager, you then hide
all other OS partitions whenever any given OS is booted (using BootIt NG,
this is done automatically, OR, you can setup boot menu items). Since all
other OS partitions are hidden, each can be cloned and booted WITHOUT
REINSTALLING THE OS!!! because each can now be booted as C:!!!

Finally, you create an extended partition w/ one or more volumes for your
DATA. Then add those volumes (if any) to your boot menu items for each OS.

This is the SUPER SIMPLE way to do it. The key to success is avoiding the
Windows default boot loader at all costs. Any decent boot manager will let
you hide partitions, which GREATLY simplifies multi-boot installations.
Esp. in cases where you want essentially CLONES, perhaps for testing, gaming
vs. office apps config, etc. And notice that the base we use for those
clones is AFTER activation! So no more crap in that regard. Every time you
want to start over, create another clone, etc., you simply return to the
base image, restore it to a partition, create a boot menu item, and you're
in business.

Believe me, I've been doing this for a LONG LONG time, using a boot manager
is *the* way to avoid lots of hassles.

As far as the EULA, most every MVP in these forums will give you the
nonsense about being in violation of the EULA. I find the arguments
ludicrous and unconvincing. Technically, using their logic, even a BACKUP
would consitiute an unauthorized copy, even a RAID mirror! They read the
EULA *literally*, without any sense of perspective or the "spirit" in which
it was intended. Personally, I believe that since you can only RUN one
instance at any time (since its on the same hardware), it fits perfectly
within the spirit of the EULA. NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY, including the
MVPs, is going to license each and every instance of XP on one machine. If
they tell you they do, they're full of crap. So just clone your XP
installations as necessary.

Btw, having multiple instances of WinXP w/ activation is NOT a problem, you
still only activate ONCE, just as long as you COPY/CLONE after activation,
of course. It's the same hardware, so it's a non-issue. Btw, this is yet
another reason I say that having multiple instances on the same machine is
perfectly within the spirit of the EULA. If it wasn't, why wouldn't each
instance require a NEW activation!!!

Jim


"Richard In Va." wrote in message
...
I've been running Win-XP Home for several years now and the time has come
for a fresh install on a new hard drive. (Hard drive issues).

I bought a new Drive, 160GB as well as WinXP-Pro retail upgrade.

I'd like to setup a multi-boot configuration and would like someone to
look-over my shoulder and give a little advise.

This is what I think I want to do...

Remove all hardware, PCI and external devices (except video card).

a) Partition the new "Basic" drive as follows via XP-Pro CD...
Partition #1 = Drive "C" = 25GB and set as "Active" , Label as
"WinXP-Pro1".
Install WinXP-Pro (to partition #1).
Boot-up and cancel all "Found New Hardware" messages.
Confirm that the page file is sized the way I want.
Install Chipset Drivers.
Install Application Accelerator.
Reboot to let "Found New Hardware" install system (onboard)
drivers.
or....
Open Device Manager and "Scan for hardware changes".
Install Video Driver (nVidia reference driver).
Cancel all Windows Activation messages. (till the job is
successfully complete).

b) Via Windows drive Mgr, create a new Partition.
Partition #2 = Drive "D" = 25GB and set as "Active" , Label as
"WinXP-Pro2".
With WinXP-Pro running, reinsert the XP CD and choose to do a
"Custom" install.
Direct the 2nd install towards the 2nd partition.
This should create a multi-boot configuration.
Follow the steps as above (a) to bring both installs to the
same state.

Go To... StartSettingsControl PanelSystemAdvancedStartup And
RecoverySettingsSystem Startup and select the "edit" button to edit the
boot.ini file and give each install a unique name to list on the boot
menu.

Open Disk Mgr. and create a new extended (dos) partition to use the
remaining 110GB +/-.
Via Disk Mgr. Create a "Logical" drive "E" = 30GB and label as "Programs".

- Install network card, log-on to each install, install network
drivers/setup ISP.
- Install Sound Card, log-on to each install, install drivers and target
audio software towards the "E" "Programs" logical drive.
- One-at-a-time, install remaining PCI devices and a printer in each of
the
installs.
(target all software to install onto the "E" "Programs" logical
drive.)
(each OS install will share the same program files).
- Log-on to each install and run MS Windows update.

Via Disk Mgr., format the remaining 80GB +/- in the extended partition as
a
new logical drive labeled "Documents".

The idea is that I will have two (2) installs of XP-Pro, one as a "safe
haven" and the other where I can play "hard-ball", or test new software
and
hardware. In other words, just have fun and not worry about messing things
up.

I'm certainly open to suggestions, I've never heard of anyone doing this
but, according to the Microsoft Windows XP Inside Out eBook, it can be
done.

But doing this leads me to my next set of questions...

1) Can WinXP be "activated" more than once on the same PC?
If so, is there a limit to the number of installs?

2) Can Norton Internet Security 2006 ( product registration and 1
anti-virus subscription) be installed in both OS Installs?
I assume I'll need to run "Norton Live Update" from both installs.

Any help and ideas anyone has to offer would be appreciated!

Best regards and Happy Holidays,

Richard in Va.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Richard, take a look at my website http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org Click
the Win XP Faq button and take a look at questions 6, 7 and 41.

The dual boot is simple, using the same copy of XP isn't. The EULA allow 1
copy on a single machine, you would be using the same copy twice which would
invalidate the EULA


--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org

The information in this post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any kind,
either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this post. The Author shall not be liable for any
direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use
of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post..



"Richard In Va." wrote in message
...
I've been running Win-XP Home for several years now and the time has come
for a fresh install on a new hard drive. (Hard drive issues).

I bought a new Drive, 160GB as well as WinXP-Pro retail upgrade.

I'd like to setup a multi-boot configuration and would like someone to
look-over my shoulder and give a little advise.

This is what I think I want to do...

Remove all hardware, PCI and external devices (except video card).

a) Partition the new "Basic" drive as follows via XP-Pro CD...
Partition #1 = Drive "C" = 25GB and set as "Active" , Label as
"WinXP-Pro1".
Install WinXP-Pro (to partition #1).
Boot-up and cancel all "Found New Hardware" messages.
Confirm that the page file is sized the way I want.
Install Chipset Drivers.
Install Application Accelerator.
Reboot to let "Found New Hardware" install system (onboard)
drivers.
or....
Open Device Manager and "Scan for hardware changes".
Install Video Driver (nVidia reference driver).
Cancel all Windows Activation messages. (till the job is
successfully complete).

b) Via Windows drive Mgr, create a new Partition.
Partition #2 = Drive "D" = 25GB and set as "Active" , Label as
"WinXP-Pro2".
With WinXP-Pro running, reinsert the XP CD and choose to do a
"Custom" install.
Direct the 2nd install towards the 2nd partition.
This should create a multi-boot configuration.
Follow the steps as above (a) to bring both installs to the
same state.

Go To... StartSettingsControl PanelSystemAdvancedStartup And
RecoverySettingsSystem Startup and select the "edit" button to edit the
boot.ini file and give each install a unique name to list on the boot
menu.

Open Disk Mgr. and create a new extended (dos) partition to use the
remaining 110GB +/-.
Via Disk Mgr. Create a "Logical" drive "E" = 30GB and label as "Programs".

- Install network card, log-on to each install, install network
drivers/setup ISP.
- Install Sound Card, log-on to each install, install drivers and target
audio software towards the "E" "Programs" logical drive.
- One-at-a-time, install remaining PCI devices and a printer in each of
the installs.
(target all software to install onto the "E" "Programs" logical drive.)
(each OS install will share the same program files).
- Log-on to each install and run MS Windows update.

Via Disk Mgr., format the remaining 80GB +/- in the extended partition as
a new logical drive labeled "Documents".

The idea is that I will have two (2) installs of XP-Pro, one as a "safe
haven" and the other where I can play "hard-ball", or test new software
and hardware. In other words, just have fun and not worry about messing
things up.

I'm certainly open to suggestions, I've never heard of anyone doing this
but, according to the Microsoft Windows XP Inside Out eBook, it can be
done.

But doing this leads me to my next set of questions...

1) Can WinXP be "activated" more than once on the same PC?
If so, is there a limit to the number of installs?

2) Can Norton Internet Security 2006 ( product registration and 1
anti-virus subscription) be installed in both OS Installs?
I assume I'll need to run "Norton Live Update" from both installs.

Any help and ideas anyone has to offer would be appreciated!

Best regards and Happy Holidays,

Richard in Va.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I am just curious, but didn't the OP say the Win XP Pro was an
upgrade?
Doesn't this complicate the end user licence agreement even more?


"John Barnett MVP" wrote in message
...
| Richard,
|
| As a beta tester i have to change my operating system build quite
often,
| especially when things go wrong. The easiest thing for me to do
would be to
| actually install the operating system twice (on seperate partitions,
just as
| you would like to do). Therefore when one operating system went
wrong, it
| would be easy to go back to the original one and start again.
| This option was put to Microsoft and we (being the beta testers)
were told
| that we couldn't do it as we would be infringing the end user
licence
| agreement. We could do a parallel install 'only' if we deleted the
other
| operating system after the second one was installed.
| You can install Windows XP Home on one partition and XP Pro on
another
| because you have two seperate CDs and two seperate licences. I boot
three
| operating systems, XP Home, XP Pro and Vista, but they are all
individually
| licenced.
| The same constrains will apply to any software you install, as only
one copy
| can be installed on one machine.
| If you want a backup then the easiest way is to image the partition.
This is
| what i do, anyway. Use Norton Ghost, Acronis, or casper to image the
| partition to another drive, or, if the software allows, to one or
two DVD's.
|
| --
| John Barnett MVP
| Associate Expert
| http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
|
| The information in this post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind,
| either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
| reliability or content of this post. The Author shall not be liable
for any
| direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of
the use
| of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
post..
|
|
|
| "Richard in Va." wrote in message
| ...
| Hello John,
|
| Thanks for the quick reply!
|
| I don't recall the Microsoft Windows XP Inside Out eBook stating
that the
| 2 XP install had to be a separately purchased operating system.
|
| And I certainly don't want to upset big Bill. I just assumed that
because
| both installs would be on the same PC that it would be allowable
because I
| could only "use" one at a time. My intention is to have one (1)
install as
| a safe backup and the 2nd for everyday use, knowing that
eventually I'll
| have it all loaded and bogged down again. I can un-install
applications
| all day and the un-installer will leave bits and pieces of the
application
| all over the place. Including the registry file. (Wonder why that
is?)
|
| Anyway, I own a copy Norton Internet Security 2006 and System
Works 2006.
| I also own a copy of System Suite 6 Professional by Vcom. Part of
my
| intention was to install each in a separate install of XP-Pro. If
one gets
| corrupted, I could clean thing back up with the other. I've
always been
| an avid user of NIS/NSW, but recently I've been using Vcom to
clean up
| where NIS let me down. I like many of the features and cleanup
tools Vcom
| offers. However, it's my understanding that because both have
virus
| protection and a fire wall as a part of the package that I can
have only
| one installed. Is there a work around for this? Can I install
both but
| turn-off (disable) the anti-virus and fire wall I don't want to
use?
|
| I guess my only other option short of buying something else is to
install
| XP-Home on one partition and XP-Pro on the other to keep Bill
happy.
|
| Thanks for your links!
| I'll look through those tonight or tomorrow!
|
| Best regards,
|
| Richard in Va.
| ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
| "John Barnett MVP" wrote in message
| ...
| Richard, take a look at my website
http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org Click
| the Win XP Faq button and take a look at questions 6, 7 and 41.
|
| The dual boot is simple, using the same copy of XP isn't. The
EULA allow
| 1 copy on a single machine, you would be using the same copy
twice which
| would invalidate the EULA
|
|
| --
| John Barnett MVP
| Associate Expert
| http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
|
| The information in this post is supplied "as is". No warranty of
any
| kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the
accuracy,
| reliability or content of this post. The Author shall not be
liable for
| any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising
out of
| the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions
expressed in
| this post..
|
|
|
| "Richard In Va." wrote in message
| ...
| I've been running Win-XP Home for several years now and the time
has
| come for a fresh install on a new hard drive. (Hard drive
issues).
|
| I bought a new Drive, 160GB as well as WinXP-Pro retail upgrade.
|
| I'd like to setup a multi-boot configuration and would like
someone to
| look-over my shoulder and give a little advise.
|
| This is what I think I want to do...
|
| Remove all hardware, PCI and external devices (except video
card).
|
| a) Partition the new "Basic" drive as follows via XP-Pro
CD...
| Partition #1 = Drive "C" = 25GB and set as "Active" ,
Label as
| "WinXP-Pro1".
| Install WinXP-Pro (to partition #1).
| Boot-up and cancel all "Found New Hardware"
messages.
| Confirm that the page file is sized the way I want.
| Install Chipset Drivers.
| Install Application Accelerator.
| Reboot to let "Found New Hardware" install system
(onboard)
| drivers.
| or....
| Open Device Manager and "Scan for hardware changes".
| Install Video Driver (nVidia reference driver).
| Cancel all Windows Activation messages. (till the
job is
| successfully complete).
|
| b) Via Windows drive Mgr, create a new Partition.
| Partition #2 = Drive "D" = 25GB and set as "Active" ,
Label as
| "WinXP-Pro2".
| With WinXP-Pro running, reinsert the XP CD and
choose to do
| a "Custom" install.
| Direct the 2nd install towards the 2nd partition.
| This should create a multi-boot configuration.
| Follow the steps as above (a) to bring both installs
to the
| same state.
|
| Go To... StartSettingsControl PanelSystemAdvancedStartup
And
| RecoverySettingsSystem Startup and select the "edit" button to
edit
| the boot.ini file and give each install a unique name to list on
the
| boot menu.
|
| Open Disk Mgr. and create a new extended (dos) partition to use
the
| remaining 110GB +/-.
| Via Disk Mgr. Create a "Logical" drive "E" = 30GB and label as
| "Programs".
|
| - Install network card, log-on to each install, install network
| drivers/setup ISP.
| - Install Sound Card, log-on to each install, install drivers
and target
| audio software towards the "E" "Programs" logical drive.
| - One-at-a-time, install remaining PCI devices and a printer in
each of
| the installs.
| (target all software to install onto the "E" "Programs"
logical
| drive.)
| (each OS install will share the same program files).
| - Log-on to each install and run MS Windows update.
|
| Via Disk Mgr., format the remaining 80GB +/- in the extended
partition
| as a new logical drive labeled "Documents".
|
| The idea is that I will have two (2) installs of XP-Pro, one as
a "safe
| haven" and the other where I can play "hard-ball", or test new
software
| and hardware. In other words, just have fun and not worry about
messing
| things up.
|
| I'm certainly open to suggestions, I've never heard of anyone
doing this
| but, according to the Microsoft Windows XP Inside Out eBook, it
can be
| done.
|
| But doing this leads me to my next set of questions...
|
| 1) Can WinXP be "activated" more than once on the same PC?
| If so, is there a limit to the number of installs?
|
| 2) Can Norton Internet Security 2006 ( product registration
and 1
| anti-virus subscription) be installed in both OS Installs?
| I assume I'll need to run "Norton Live Update" from both
installs.
|
| Any help and ideas anyone has to offer would be appreciated!
|
| Best regards and Happy Holidays,
|
| Richard in Va.
| ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|

Hello Jim,

Thank-you for intercepting my post. And also thank-you for your time and
in-depth discussion as to how using a boot manager would be a solution in
achieving my objectives. I've visited the Bootit NG web site and I like
what I see. But I still have a few concerns and questions.

In response to the hardware issue, Installing the hardware devices
one-at-a-time into each OS install is likely part of my mentality that goes
back to Win98 or Win95 wherein it might be safer to install one thing at a
time between boots. Old habits are hard to break I guess. Also, It's my
understanding that installing devices and drivers in a particular order is
important in optimizing my Intel 850 chipset/Socket 478/P4 based PC. I've
read somewhere on Intel's web site (some time ago) what their recommended
order of installation is, but can't seem to locate it anymore. Which is why
I intend to uninstall all PCI and external devices such that I can install
the chipset driver first. Then Application Accelerator, then (I think)
video, then ATA-100 controller card, then network (LAN) card, then sound
card. I guess from there, it really may not matter for the other items. But
please advise if you (or others listening in) feel differently. All
hardware would be installed in each OS install.

I've never used a boot manager, nor do I know anyone who does. I know
they've been around for some time, I guess a lack of knowledge has kept me
leery of them. But based on your suggestion and explanation in an effort to
help me achieve what I'd like to do. A boot manager sounds like a good
thing. Basically, All I really want is a maintained healthy OS install to
fall back on, along with an install for everyday family use and then maybe
one where I can pull out the stops.

Each install would have internet access. Which leads to my other main
concern. I own Norton Internet Security 2006, Norton System Works 2006 as
well as System Suite 6 Pro by VCOM and System Mechanic 6 Pro by iolo. About
a month ago, my system crashed and refused to boot, so I ran down to
Wal-Mart and bought the VCOM and iolo products because they both claimed I
could boot from their install disk and they would (might) repair my disk
problems. They didn't help much but did advise me to run chkdsk via the
recovery console to repair drive C: . I got everything running again and
then was hit with a virus. Norton (NIS) got corrupted and would not run a
system virus scan. So I uninstalled NIS and installed the VCOM product.
Between VCOM and Spyware Doctor and Ad-Aware, I was able to locate and
remove allot of security threats. Therefore, if I could have more than one
OS install, maybe I could use NIS for everyday use and install the VCOM
product on the other OS installation and be able to use one to clean up the
OS on the other partition. Seems to me that some of these clean-up
utilities would be safer if used on a OS install that was not active or in
use. With the way you've explained using a boot manager and it's ability to
hide the other partition(s) containing an OS. This would not be possible.
It's a shame NIS/NSW won't let you boot from the install CD and use all of
it's built in features, as long as it had access to updated virus definition
and such.

By the way, would you know if VCOM and NIS/NSW will coexist on the same OS
install? VCOM has allot of features that I really like, some of which might
surpass NIS/NSW. Norton won't seem to install if it finds other virus and
firewall applications. VCOM strongly suggest removing other virus/firewall
apps as well. For many years I've been an avid user of NIS/NSW, it's always
seemed to do the job well, but now VCOM has caught my eye. I could
certainly live with both being installed on the same OS and simply disabling
the virus and firewall app I chose not to use.

If using a boot manager is my answer, I assume I would need to run Windows
Security Update as well as the virus definition update from within each OS.
Is receiving multiple updates acceptable?

Best regards and have a safe Holiday,

Richard in Va.

PS: and Jim, you can look over my shoulder anytime...!

Trivia for the day:
When in history did man developed the first knot?
I'm really not sure either, but it likely happened the same day he invented
rope!
For one can not exist without the other...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Jim" wrote in message
news:j9sqf.3398$nj1.1427@fed1read07...
You're making this way, way too complicated. It's much easier to
accomplish
what you want than going through all this hassle.

As far as installing hardware AFTER installation, I'm not all that
convinced
this is worth the effort UNLESS the component is non-essential. For
example, I'd keep the sound card, video card, LAN card, etc., all
installed.
But I might not install w/ a TV tuner card, wireless adapter, etc. But in
the end, that's up to you. Personally, I would keep most components
installed *if* I knew they would always be part of any OS installation.



As far as multiple OS installation, there's no need for all this
complexity.
What you do is use a good boot manager. I use BootIt NG, but there are
others, like XOSL, Boot Magic, etc. These are capable of HIDING
partitions,
which is key. The default Windows boot loader cannot, which is what
complicates your multi-boot installation unnecessarily.





If you use BootIt NG (or similar), you simply install WinXP to a
partition,
activate it, then image copy it (external HD, DVD/CD, whatever). Again, I
use BootIt NG for this purpose. So now you have a "base image" to which
you
always can return. You then CLONE one or more WinXP partition from the
base
image (or just COPY from the first partition, depends if you want a
pristine
install or not) to new partitions. Using the boot manager, you then hide
all other OS partitions whenever any given OS is booted (using BootIt NG,
this is done automatically, OR, you can setup boot menu items). Since all
other OS partitions are hidden, each can be cloned and booted WITHOUT
REINSTALLING THE OS!!! because each can now be booted as C:!!!

Finally, you create an extended partition w/ one or more volumes for your
DATA. Then add those volumes (if any) to your boot menu items for each
OS.

This is the SUPER SIMPLE way to do it. The key to success is avoiding the
Windows default boot loader at all costs. Any decent boot manager will
let
you hide partitions, which GREATLY simplifies multi-boot installations.
Esp. in cases where you want essentially CLONES, perhaps for testing,
gaming
vs. office apps config, etc. And notice that the base we use for those
clones is AFTER activation! So no more crap in that regard. Every time
you
want to start over, create another clone, etc., you simply return to the
base image, restore it to a partition, create a boot menu item, and you're
in business.

Believe me, I've been doing this for a LONG LONG time, using a boot
manager
is *the* way to avoid lots of hassles.

As far as the EULA, most every MVP in these forums will give you the
nonsense about being in violation of the EULA. I find the arguments
ludicrous and unconvincing. Technically, using their logic, even a BACKUP
would consitiute an unauthorized copy, even a RAID mirror! They read the
EULA *literally*, without any sense of perspective or the "spirit" in
which
it was intended. Personally, I believe that since you can only RUN one
instance at any time (since its on the same hardware), it fits perfectly
within the spirit of the EULA. NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY, including the
MVPs, is going to license each and every instance of XP on one machine.
If
they tell you they do, they're full of crap. So just clone your XP
installations as necessary.

Btw, having multiple instances of WinXP w/ activation is NOT a problem,
you
still only activate ONCE, just as long as you COPY/CLONE after activation,
of course. It's the same hardware, so it's a non-issue. Btw, this is yet
another reason I say that having multiple instances on the same machine is
perfectly within the spirit of the EULA. If it wasn't, why wouldn't each
instance require a NEW activation!!!

Jim


"Richard In Va." wrote in message
...
I've been running Win-XP Home for several years now and the time has come
for a fresh install on a new hard drive. (Hard drive issues).

I bought a new Drive, 160GB as well as WinXP-Pro retail upgrade.

I'd like to setup a multi-boot configuration and would like someone to
look-over my shoulder and give a little advise.

This is what I think I want to do...

Remove all hardware, PCI and external devices (except video card).

a) Partition the new "Basic" drive as follows via XP-Pro CD...
Partition #1 = Drive "C" = 25GB and set as "Active" , Label as
"WinXP-Pro1".
Install WinXP-Pro (to partition #1).
Boot-up and cancel all "Found New Hardware" messages.
Confirm that the page file is sized the way I want.
Install Chipset Drivers.
Install Application Accelerator.
Reboot to let "Found New Hardware" install system (onboard)
drivers.
or....
Open Device Manager and "Scan for hardware changes".
Install Video Driver (nVidia reference driver).
Cancel all Windows Activation messages. (till the job is
successfully complete).

b) Via Windows drive Mgr, create a new Partition.
Partition #2 = Drive "D" = 25GB and set as "Active" , Label as
"WinXP-Pro2".
With WinXP-Pro running, reinsert the XP CD and choose to do
a
"Custom" install.
Direct the 2nd install towards the 2nd partition.
This should create a multi-boot configuration.
Follow the steps as above (a) to bring both installs to the
same state.

Go To... StartSettingsControl PanelSystemAdvancedStartup And
RecoverySettingsSystem Startup and select the "edit" button to edit the
boot.ini file and give each install a unique name to list on the boot
menu.

Open Disk Mgr. and create a new extended (dos) partition to use the
remaining 110GB +/-.
Via Disk Mgr. Create a "Logical" drive "E" = 30GB and label as
"Programs".

- Install network card, log-on to each install, install network
drivers/setup ISP.
- Install Sound Card, log-on to each install, install drivers and target
audio software towards the "E" "Programs" logical drive.
- One-at-a-time, install remaining PCI devices and a printer in each of
the
installs.
(target all software to install onto the "E" "Programs" logical
drive.)
(each OS install will share the same program files).
- Log-on to each install and run MS Windows update.

Via Disk Mgr., format the remaining 80GB +/- in the extended partition as
a
new logical drive labeled "Documents".

The idea is that I will have two (2) installs of XP-Pro, one as a "safe
haven" and the other where I can play "hard-ball", or test new software
and
hardware. In other words, just have fun and not worry about messing
things
up.

I'm certainly open to suggestions, I've never heard of anyone doing this
but, according to the Microsoft Windows XP Inside Out eBook, it can be
done.

But doing this leads me to my next set of questions...

1) Can WinXP be "activated" more than once on the same PC?
If so, is there a limit to the number of installs?

2) Can Norton Internet Security 2006 ( product registration and 1
anti-virus subscription) be installed in both OS Installs?
I assume I'll need to run "Norton Live Update" from both installs.

Any help and ideas anyone has to offer would be appreciated!

Best regards and Happy Holidays,

Richard in Va.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Richard in Va." wrote in message
...
Hello Jim,

Thank-you for intercepting my post. And also thank-you for your time and
in-depth discussion as to how using a boot manager would be a solution in
achieving my objectives. I've visited the Bootit NG web site and I like
what I see. But I still have a few concerns and questions.

In response to the hardware issue, Installing the hardware devices
one-at-a-time into each OS install is likely part of my mentality that
goes
back to Win98 or Win95 wherein it might be safer to install one thing at a
time between boots. Old habits are hard to break I guess. Also, It's my
understanding that installing devices and drivers in a particular order is
important in optimizing my Intel 850 chipset/Socket 478/P4 based PC. I've
read somewhere on Intel's web site (some time ago) what their recommended
order of installation is, but can't seem to locate it anymore. Which is
why
I intend to uninstall all PCI and external devices such that I can install
the chipset driver first. Then Application Accelerator, then (I think)
video, then ATA-100 controller card, then network (LAN) card, then sound
card. I guess from there, it really may not matter for the other items.
But
please advise if you (or others listening in) feel differently. All
hardware would be installed in each OS install.


Let me try to explain this a little better. Ultimately, this isn't a big
deal AS LONG AS *you* don't mind the hassle of having to install the PCI
cards after initial OS installation. I'm thinking of the situation where
you've removed almost everything, created a base image of the XP
installation, and now start installing and configuring each card, one by
one. For a *single* OS installation, this is NOT a big deal. BUT, if you
want to create 2, 3 or more clones of that base image, the idea of removing
the cards, restoring from the base image to create a second instance, and
then installing each card, one by one AGAIN, well..., I don't know about
you, but this would prove incredibly tedious to me, esp. by the 3rd or 4th
instance

XP is a MUCH better OS than any other consumer OS Microsoft has ever built,
no comparison to Win95/98/ME, which are MS-DOS based operating systems
(their achilles heel). Unless you have really obscure PCI cards, something
really out of the ordinary, I find leaving these cards IN PLACE, most of the
time, works just fine. You'd be surprised how well XP manages installation
of these drivers! For any PCI cards that are not recognized and/or can't be
configured correctly on the initial installation, the device will simply be
listed under Device Manager w/ a yellow exclamation, meaning it needs
attention. For 95% of PCI cards, this approach works fine. Conflicts w/
IRQ interrupts, driver problems, etc., are not nearly as much a problem w/
XP as w/ Win98 and alike. Despite all the complaints about Microsoft, they
do do a VERY good job w/ the XP installation, it's actually works remarkably
well.

But again, it's totally up to you. I just think it's an incredible hassle
to be pulling/installing PCI cards for multiple installations. What I *do*
pull are my USB, parallel, and serial devices (USB external drives, USB pen
drives, wireless devices, printers, USB hubs, digital cameras, etc.),
anything like that. That's because these installations tend to be more
tempermental, and they're really easy to install, heck, you don't even need
to shutdown! If you can build a base image that would only require adding
back these USB devices, I think that's ideal. Also, I strongly recommend
using a "wired" LAN card (or on-board adapter) for the initial install, even
if you eventually go w/ wireless. Wired LAN installations are so trivial,
it makes the installation effortless, and you won't have any issues w/
activation that require getting your wireless configured FIRST. Keep it
simple by using a wired LAN adapter. Activate, image copy the base, install
the wireless adapter, then finally disable the wired adapter. Anytime you
have a wireless problem, all you need do is re-enable the wired LAN
connection.

I've never used a boot manager, nor do I know anyone who does. I know
they've been around for some time, I guess a lack of knowledge has kept me
leery of them. But based on your suggestion and explanation in an effort
to
help me achieve what I'd like to do. A boot manager sounds like a good
thing. Basically, All I really want is a maintained healthy OS install to
fall back on, along with an install for everyday family use and then maybe
one where I can pull out the stops.


Boot managers have been around a very long time. I must have tried every
one every made. Spent literally YEARS jumping from one to the next, trying
to find the "perfect" solution that didn't force me to compromise this or
that. About 5-6 years ago, I found BootIt NG, and have never used anything
else since. BootIt NG (like most other boot managers) is as safe as any
other product these days, it's pretty hard to screw up. And if you don't
like it, you simply uninstall it.

To be honest, managing multiple OS installation *can* be complicated if you
mix OS types, like XP, NT, W2K, Win98, etc. Each OS has idiosyncracies that
requires experience to know and understand. For example, older OS's like
Win98 have a "load limit" which means you can only boot it from a maximum
distance from the head of the HD. An obscure but important detail. That's
why experts in this area will tell you, that in general, it's best to place
early version of the OS at the head of the HD, and later versions
progressively farther up the HD. Earlier release have more severe load
limits than later releases, so this minimizes the chance of installing any
given OS in a location from which it can't be booted.

But in the case of XP, I haven't seen nearly as many of these "limits" as
with prior OS releases. So if you're going strictly w/ XP installations, it
simplies things considerably.

One limitation you always have to consider is due to Microsoft's HD
architecture, which ALWAYS limits you to 4 primary partitions, OR, 3
primaries and 1 extended partition (w/ one or more logical partitions).
That means you are limited to 3 OS installations, assuming you place your
DATA within logical partitions of the extended partition (which I generally
recommend). The other choice is to define 4 primary partitions (so you can
install the OS 4 times, of course), then create an extended partition (w/
one or more logical partitions) on a second HD (slave). Either way works
very nicely and minimizes multi-boot installation complications.

Using BootIt NG, you have the choice of installing the boot manager either
in its own partition, OR, the OS partition. If you choose the OS partition,
it must be FAT (FAT or FAT32, NOT NTFS). OTOH, if you install it on its own
partition, you can choose to uses its proprietary partition type (what it
will choose by default), or a FAT16, FAT, or FAT32 partition. Your choice.
Of course, by installing it on its own partition, this consumes a partition
that could otherwise be used for XP! But there's a big benefit as well --
by NOT installing the boot manager within an existing XP partition, you
remove any dependencies between the OS and the boot manager. So you can
CLONE/COPY/MOVE any OS partition, anywhere, at anytime without worrying
whether it will muck up your boot manager. Instead, the boot manager's
partition just stays put, for the life of your HD installation! In fact, I
recommend the boot manager partition be installed at the END of the HD, it
only requires a measly 8-16mb.

Finally (and this is the one that raises the eyebrows of ppl in the NG,
trust me, you'll hear hoots and hollers), you could consider using BootIt NG
"unlimited primaries". An incredibly useful feature, and frankly,
ingenuous. By enabling this BootIt NG exclusive feature, you can have as
many primary partitions as you like! Essentially only limited by available
HD space. How can that be you say?! To understand this feature, you need
to understand how the Microsoft HD architecture works. The reason the HD is
normally limited to 4 primaries (or 3 primaries and 1 extended) is because
of the MBR (Master Boot Record). This is located on the first sector of the
HD, and contains a maximum of FOUR address fields, each of which can point
to the address of a partition. When you enable BootIt NG unlimited
primaries, it doesn't actually change anything on the HD. But what it does
do is change the boot manager's behavior. Once enabled, you can copy/clone
OS installations, create data partitions, etc., as many as you like, on that
HD. Unlike other boot managers that track the address of available
partitions in the MBR, BootIt NG tracks the addresses of these partitions
within its own config files. When you setup boot menu items, you are
telling BootIt NG (and this is a key concept) HOW to construct the MBR for
that OS! IOW, BootIt NG *dynamically* constructs an MBR that contains only
the addresses of those partitions you wish to consider at boot time. This
is unique to BootIt NG. Other boot managers work differently, they change
the OS type indicator field in the MBR to hide partitions, but this
dependence on the MBR is what limits the primaries you can define. BootIt
NG doesn't need to do this. When constructing a boot menu item, it simple
never puts the address of partitions that shouldn't be seen in the MBR at
all!

That's why BootIt NG unlimited primaries works. It's the only boot manager
I know that dynamically creates an MBR for each OS configuration you want to
setup.

Most ppl shy away from using unlimited primaries w/ BootIt NG because they
don't understand it. They get queasy because it goes counter to convention,
and *does* require being careful. For example, you can't use third party
partition managers in this mode because those tools will ASSUME that the
only data partitions on the HD are those currently listed in the MBR. This
is not the case. Remember, BootIt NG is managing all the other defined
partitions in its config file. It only updates the MBR with this
information based on the config for the OS you intend to boot next. So
again, you do have to be careful.

I was leery at first too. But I started using BootIt NG unlimited primaries
one day about 4-5 years ago, and frankly, it's never been a problem. Works
beautifully. And no more primary partition limits. I can literally have
dozens of OS installations on my PC at any given time, if I want to.
Incredibly powerful once you see it in action. And since BootIt NG comes w/
its own imaging solution and partition manager anyway, it's a non issue that
its incompatible (in this mode) w/ third party tools. I stopped using these
others tools (e.g., Partition Manager) years ago. No need.

But you don't have to consider using unlimited primaries, that's just a
taste of what you can do if interested. You can always enable the feature
at any time. Again, doesn't actually do anything except allow you to create
additional primaries. When not enabled, the software will prevent creation
of those additional primaries. And if you have unlimited primaries enabled,
and more than 4 defined, it won't let you disable it until you delete
sufficient primaries to meet the 4 primaries restriction. As I said, this
software is very safe, it goes out of its way to make sure you don't mess
things up.

Each install would have internet access. Which leads to my other main
concern. I own Norton Internet Security 2006, Norton System Works 2006 as
well as System Suite 6 Pro by VCOM and System Mechanic 6 Pro by iolo.
About
a month ago, my system crashed and refused to boot, so I ran down to
Wal-Mart and bought the VCOM and iolo products because they both claimed I
could boot from their install disk and they would (might) repair my disk
problems. They didn't help much but did advise me to run chkdsk via the
recovery console to repair drive C: . I got everything running again and
then was hit with a virus. Norton (NIS) got corrupted and would not run a
system virus scan. So I uninstalled NIS and installed the VCOM product.
Between VCOM and Spyware Doctor and Ad-Aware, I was able to locate and
remove allot of security threats. Therefore, if I could have more than
one
OS install, maybe I could use NIS for everyday use and install the VCOM
product on the other OS installation and be able to use one to clean up
the
OS on the other partition. Seems to me that some of these clean-up
utilities would be safer if used on a OS install that was not active or in
use. With the way you've explained using a boot manager and it's ability
to
hide the other partition(s) containing an OS. This would not be possible.
It's a shame NIS/NSW won't let you boot from the install CD and use all of
it's built in features, as long as it had access to updated virus
definition
and such.


Well now you're delving into a different area. Frankly, I'm not much of a
believer in all these so-called "tools". As someone who's been a software
developer by trade for some 20 years, and seen virtually everything in the
MS world since the mid 80's, I find most of this stuff to be more trouble
than it's worth

Fact is, the OS installation is so complex and unique to each person, that
the claims made by these products can't possibly be meet. The worst are the
registry cleaners, they are notorious for deleting things they shouldn't
because they can't possible know all the intricacies of every system
sufficiently to avoid making errors. And as far as these "recovery tools",
here again, most can only make a cursory scan of your situation, and guess
what's wrong, and often *are* wrong in their assessment. Some actually make
the situation worse!

The key to having a smooth running system is to avoid getting into a mess in
the first place, trying to FIX the situation afterwards is usually
problematic. In most instances, ppl simply reinstall. One of the things
you HAVE to do these days is NOT install the OS while connected to the
Internet, not unless you have a firewall erected, at a minimum. That's why
having a hardware router is so beneficial. When using a software firewall,
like ICS, even here, there's a brief period when the network is active, but
the firewall is NOT erected yet! Might only be 20-30 seconds, but sometimes
that's enough.

Here's my recommendation, I've followed these basic rules for years, NEVER
had a virus, not one that wasn't caught before it did damage anyway. But I
was hit by plenty of spyware when this problem first hit the 'net, like
everyone else.

First, forget all these useless tools, System Suite, System Works, even NIS
is so bloated these days.

Second, you should get a good HARDWARE firewall, such as that found on any
basic router these days. Get one EVEN if you have no intention of sharing
resources. They're dirt cheap, even FREE after rebate in many cases, and
even wireless as a bonus. This will always keep you protected, even a PC
that has no protection at the moment (e.g., a new OS install).

Third, install an anti-virus program. I don't want to get into a debate
about brand, it almost doesn't matter, but I do use Norton myself. Run a
scheduled scan at least once a week, and update your signatures EVERY night
(this can usually be automated as well).

Finally, install at least two, but no more than three anti-spyware programs
(so it doesn't get overly complex to manage). I recommend Webroot Spy
Sweeper (the best imo), MS AntiSpyware (currently in beta, a close second to
WSS, imo), and SpywareBlaster (free). Ad-aware is good too, but I've found
lately it tends to miss a lot of stuff, can't always remove spyware
successfully, and the interface is way too complex for the average user.
I'm sure it's useful, but the UI is rather confusing at times. I've also
used Spybot Search and Destroy. Anyway, there are a lot of choices. I esp.
recommend those tools that can be scheduled and run in the background, so
you don't have to remember to run them. And have at least one tool that
runs actively (keep it to one too) to catch attempts to install spyware,
hijack your browser, etc., in real time. Spy Sweeper and MS AntiSpyware
work esp. well for this purpose.

Beyond that, I do little else. Never ever bought any of these other tools
for any reason. Wouldn't them trust if I did anyway. Most are pure junk.
KEEP IT SIMPLE! One hardware firewall, one anti-virus program, and 2-3
spyware programs, that's it! Anything more and you're really not providng
significant improvement to your system, if anything, it only adds to the
list of things that can go wrong.

Btw, I have used NIS, as sort of a backup to my hardware router. It also
lets me see which apps are using the Internet, and allow or deny access on a
per app basis. I also think NIS has the absolute best ad popup blocking
I've ever seen. Beats even software designed to only block ads. Not sure
why, but Norton seems to have figured this out better than anyone. So I
have used it from time to time for these purposes. But strictly speaking,
if you use a hardware firewall, you can usually eliminate NIS or similar
software-based firewalls, it's superfluous. Again, the simpler the better.
At the very least, only ADD software when you feel convinced you MUST have
it to solve a specific problem, not just because it "seems" useful.

By the way, would you know if VCOM and NIS/NSW will coexist on the same OS
install? VCOM has allot of features that I really like, some of which
might
surpass NIS/NSW. Norton won't seem to install if it finds other virus and
firewall applications. VCOM strongly suggest removing other
virus/firewall
apps as well. For many years I've been an avid user of NIS/NSW, it's
always
seemed to do the job well, but now VCOM has caught my eye. I could
certainly live with both being installed on the same OS and simply
disabling
the virus and firewall app I chose not to use.


Here again, it's best to keep things simple. Once you start getting into
this area of virus, spyware, system maintenance, etc., you get all kinds of
conflicts and problems. And most of it is unnecessary. I see too many ppl
just piling on software. I approach the configuration of my system much
differently. I only add softare AS NEEDED, when I KNOW that it is
addressing a specific problem that I otherwise can not solve without it.
And again, most of these tools like NSW are not necessary. Heck, I haven't
used anything like NSW ever! I strive to keep as few modifications and
additional software as possible on my system. In fact, many ppl would be
surprised how "plain jane" my systems are, and I'm a software developer w/
LOTS of PCs and equipment here. I make it a point NOT to fall in love w/
the system and all these tools. And my systems run squeaky clean and fast,
and have done so for years. Keep it simple.

If using a boot manager is my answer, I assume I would need to run Windows
Security Update as well as the virus definition update from within each
OS.
Is receiving multiple updates acceptable?


Yes, of course. Each OS has to be kept up-to-date, which can only occur
when booted. Presumably you will be booting each OS from time to time.
When you do, of course, you'll be prompted for Windows Updates if you have
automatic updates enabled (btw, I always have it enabled, but recommend you
NEVER let it auto-install, you should always KNOW what's being installed,
record what has changed in a log, then TELL it to install the updates).
Updating multiple OS instances is a non-issue to MS, there's no "tracking"
of Windows Updates per se. Each OS installation simples contacts MS from
time to time to see what needs updating. You can theoretically perform
these updates FOREVER if you kept restoring the base image, MS couldn't care
less, doesn't even know.

Btw, speaking of a log, that's another thing I strongly recommend. KEEP A
LOG OF CHANGES! Once I create the base image, I log every change (w/ date)
in a simple log file. This is invaluable in case you need to restore a
prior image copy and reapply changes. It also can be very useful in problem
diagnosis, you can sometimes link a specific problem to a change recorded in
the log. And there's just something about the process that makes you much
more aware of what's changing, whether you're making too many changes, what
effect the order of changes has (if any), etc. It's a great habit to
develop. I keep a seaprate log for every OS installation on every PC I own.

Jim

Best regards and have a safe Holiday,

Richard in Va.

PS: and Jim, you can look over my shoulder anytime...!

Trivia for the day:
When in history did man developed the first knot?
I'm really not sure either, but it likely happened the same day he
invented
rope!
For one can not exist without the other...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Jim" wrote in message
news:j9sqf.3398$nj1.1427@fed1read07...
You're making this way, way too complicated. It's much easier to
accomplish
what you want than going through all this hassle.

As far as installing hardware AFTER installation, I'm not all that
convinced
this is worth the effort UNLESS the component is non-essential. For
example, I'd keep the sound card, video card, LAN card, etc., all
installed.
But I might not install w/ a TV tuner card, wireless adapter, etc. But
in
the end, that's up to you. Personally, I would keep most components
installed *if* I knew they would always be part of any OS installation.



As far as multiple OS installation, there's no need for all this
complexity.
What you do is use a good boot manager. I use BootIt NG, but there are
others, like XOSL, Boot Magic, etc. These are capable of HIDING
partitions,
which is key. The default Windows boot loader cannot, which is what
complicates your multi-boot installation unnecessarily.





If you use BootIt NG (or similar), you simply install WinXP to a
partition,
activate it, then image copy it (external HD, DVD/CD, whatever). Again,
I
use BootIt NG for this purpose. So now you have a "base image" to which
you
always can return. You then CLONE one or more WinXP partition from the
base
image (or just COPY from the first partition, depends if you want a
pristine
install or not) to new partitions. Using the boot manager, you then
hide
all other OS partitions whenever any given OS is booted (using BootIt
NG,
this is done automatically, OR, you can setup boot menu items). Since
all
other OS partitions are hidden, each can be cloned and booted WITHOUT
REINSTALLING THE OS!!! because each can now be booted as C:!!!

Finally, you create an extended partition w/ one or more volumes for
your
DATA. Then add those volumes (if any) to your boot menu items for each
OS.

This is the SUPER SIMPLE way to do it. The key to success is avoiding
the
Windows default boot loader at all costs. Any decent boot manager will
let
you hide partitions, which GREATLY simplifies multi-boot installations.
Esp. in cases where you want essentially CLONES, perhaps for testing,
gaming
vs. office apps config, etc. And notice that the base we use for those
clones is AFTER activation! So no more crap in that regard. Every time
you
want to start over, create another clone, etc., you simply return to the
base image, restore it to a partition, create a boot menu item, and
you're
in business.

Believe me, I've been doing this for a LONG LONG time, using a boot
manager
is *the* way to avoid lots of hassles.

As far as the EULA, most every MVP in these forums will give you the
nonsense about being in violation of the EULA. I find the arguments
ludicrous and unconvincing. Technically, using their logic, even a
BACKUP
would consitiute an unauthorized copy, even a RAID mirror! They read
the
EULA *literally*, without any sense of perspective or the "spirit" in
which
it was intended. Personally, I believe that since you can only RUN one
instance at any time (since its on the same hardware), it fits perfectly
within the spirit of the EULA. NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY, including the
MVPs, is going to license each and every instance of XP on one machine.
If
they tell you they do, they're full of crap. So just clone your XP
installations as necessary.

Btw, having multiple instances of WinXP w/ activation is NOT a problem,
you
still only activate ONCE, just as long as you COPY/CLONE after
activation,
of course. It's the same hardware, so it's a non-issue. Btw, this is
yet
another reason I say that having multiple instances on the same machine
is
perfectly within the spirit of the EULA. If it wasn't, why wouldn't
each
instance require a NEW activation!!!

Jim


"Richard In Va." wrote in message
...
I've been running Win-XP Home for several years now and the time has
come
for a fresh install on a new hard drive. (Hard drive issues).

I bought a new Drive, 160GB as well as WinXP-Pro retail upgrade.

I'd like to setup a multi-boot configuration and would like someone to
look-over my shoulder and give a little advise.

This is what I think I want to do...

Remove all hardware, PCI and external devices (except video card).

a) Partition the new "Basic" drive as follows via XP-Pro CD...
Partition #1 = Drive "C" = 25GB and set as "Active" , Label as
"WinXP-Pro1".
Install WinXP-Pro (to partition #1).
Boot-up and cancel all "Found New Hardware" messages.
Confirm that the page file is sized the way I want.
Install Chipset Drivers.
Install Application Accelerator.
Reboot to let "Found New Hardware" install system
(onboard)
drivers.
or....
Open Device Manager and "Scan for hardware changes".
Install Video Driver (nVidia reference driver).
Cancel all Windows Activation messages. (till the job is
successfully complete).

b) Via Windows drive Mgr, create a new Partition.
Partition #2 = Drive "D" = 25GB and set as "Active" , Label as
"WinXP-Pro2".
With WinXP-Pro running, reinsert the XP CD and choose to
do
a
"Custom" install.
Direct the 2nd install towards the 2nd partition.
This should create a multi-boot configuration.
Follow the steps as above (a) to bring both installs to
the
same state.

Go To... StartSettingsControl PanelSystemAdvancedStartup And
RecoverySettingsSystem Startup and select the "edit" button to edit
the
boot.ini file and give each install a unique name to list on the boot
menu.

Open Disk Mgr. and create a new extended (dos) partition to use the
remaining 110GB +/-.
Via Disk Mgr. Create a "Logical" drive "E" = 30GB and label as
"Programs".

- Install network card, log-on to each install, install network
drivers/setup ISP.
- Install Sound Card, log-on to each install, install drivers and
target
audio software towards the "E" "Programs" logical drive.
- One-at-a-time, install remaining PCI devices and a printer in each of
the
installs.
(target all software to install onto the "E" "Programs" logical
drive.)
(each OS install will share the same program files).
- Log-on to each install and run MS Windows update.

Via Disk Mgr., format the remaining 80GB +/- in the extended partition
as
a
new logical drive labeled "Documents".

The idea is that I will have two (2) installs of XP-Pro, one as a "safe
haven" and the other where I can play "hard-ball", or test new software
and
hardware. In other words, just have fun and not worry about messing
things
up.

I'm certainly open to suggestions, I've never heard of anyone doing
this
but, according to the Microsoft Windows XP Inside Out eBook, it can be
done.

But doing this leads me to my next set of questions...

1) Can WinXP be "activated" more than once on the same PC?
If so, is there a limit to the number of installs?

2) Can Norton Internet Security 2006 ( product registration and 1
anti-virus subscription) be installed in both OS Installs?
I assume I'll need to run "Norton Live Update" from both
installs.

Any help and ideas anyone has to offer would be appreciated!

Best regards and Happy Holidays,

Richard in Va.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Richard,

As a beta tester i have to change my operating system build quite often,
especially when things go wrong. The easiest thing for me to do would be to
actually install the operating system twice (on seperate partitions, just as
you would like to do). Therefore when one operating system went wrong, it
would be easy to go back to the original one and start again.
This option was put to Microsoft and we (being the beta testers) were told
that we couldn't do it as we would be infringing the end user licence
agreement. We could do a parallel install 'only' if we deleted the other
operating system after the second one was installed.
You can install Windows XP Home on one partition and XP Pro on another
because you have two seperate CDs and two seperate licences. I boot three
operating systems, XP Home, XP Pro and Vista, but they are all individually
licenced.
The same constrains will apply to any software you install, as only one copy
can be installed on one machine.
If you want a backup then the easiest way is to image the partition. This is
what i do, anyway. Use Norton Ghost, Acronis, or casper to image the
partition to another drive, or, if the software allows, to one or two DVD's.

--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org

The information in this post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any kind,
either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this post. The Author shall not be liable for any
direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use
of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post..



"Richard in Va." wrote in message
...
Hello John,

Thanks for the quick reply!

I don't recall the Microsoft Windows XP Inside Out eBook stating that the
2 XP install had to be a separately purchased operating system.

And I certainly don't want to upset big Bill. I just assumed that because
both installs would be on the same PC that it would be allowable because I
could only "use" one at a time. My intention is to have one (1) install as
a safe backup and the 2nd for everyday use, knowing that eventually I'll
have it all loaded and bogged down again. I can un-install applications
all day and the un-installer will leave bits and pieces of the application
all over the place. Including the registry file. (Wonder why that is?)

Anyway, I own a copy Norton Internet Security 2006 and System Works 2006.
I also own a copy of System Suite 6 Professional by Vcom. Part of my
intention was to install each in a separate install of XP-Pro. If one gets
corrupted, I could clean thing back up with the other. I've always been
an avid user of NIS/NSW, but recently I've been using Vcom to clean up
where NIS let me down. I like many of the features and cleanup tools Vcom
offers. However, it's my understanding that because both have virus
protection and a fire wall as a part of the package that I can have only
one installed. Is there a work around for this? Can I install both but
turn-off (disable) the anti-virus and fire wall I don't want to use?

I guess my only other option short of buying something else is to install
XP-Home on one partition and XP-Pro on the other to keep Bill happy.

Thanks for your links!
I'll look through those tonight or tomorrow!

Best regards,

Richard in Va.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"John Barnett MVP" wrote in message
...
Richard, take a look at my website http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org Click
the Win XP Faq button and take a look at questions 6, 7 and 41.

The dual boot is simple, using the same copy of XP isn't. The EULA allow
1 copy on a single machine, you would be using the same copy twice which
would invalidate the EULA


--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org

The information in this post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of
the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in
this post..



"Richard In Va." wrote in message
...
I've been running Win-XP Home for several years now and the time has
come for a fresh install on a new hard drive. (Hard drive issues).

I bought a new Drive, 160GB as well as WinXP-Pro retail upgrade.

I'd like to setup a multi-boot configuration and would like someone to
look-over my shoulder and give a little advise.

This is what I think I want to do...

Remove all hardware, PCI and external devices (except video card).

a) Partition the new "Basic" drive as follows via XP-Pro CD...
Partition #1 = Drive "C" = 25GB and set as "Active" , Label as
"WinXP-Pro1".
Install WinXP-Pro (to partition #1).
Boot-up and cancel all "Found New Hardware" messages.
Confirm that the page file is sized the way I want.
Install Chipset Drivers.
Install Application Accelerator.
Reboot to let "Found New Hardware" install system (onboard)
drivers.
or....
Open Device Manager and "Scan for hardware changes".
Install Video Driver (nVidia reference driver).
Cancel all Windows Activation messages. (till the job is
successfully complete).

b) Via Windows drive Mgr, create a new Partition.
Partition #2 = Drive "D" = 25GB and set as "Active" , Label as
"WinXP-Pro2".
With WinXP-Pro running, reinsert the XP CD and choose to do
a "Custom" install.
Direct the 2nd install towards the 2nd partition.
This should create a multi-boot configuration.
Follow the steps as above (a) to bring both installs to the
same state.

Go To... StartSettingsControl PanelSystemAdvancedStartup And
RecoverySettingsSystem Startup and select the "edit" button to edit
the boot.ini file and give each install a unique name to list on the
boot menu.

Open Disk Mgr. and create a new extended (dos) partition to use the
remaining 110GB +/-.
Via Disk Mgr. Create a "Logical" drive "E" = 30GB and label as
"Programs".

- Install network card, log-on to each install, install network
drivers/setup ISP.
- Install Sound Card, log-on to each install, install drivers and target
audio software towards the "E" "Programs" logical drive.
- One-at-a-time, install remaining PCI devices and a printer in each of
the installs.
(target all software to install onto the "E" "Programs" logical
drive.)
(each OS install will share the same program files).
- Log-on to each install and run MS Windows update.

Via Disk Mgr., format the remaining 80GB +/- in the extended partition
as a new logical drive labeled "Documents".

The idea is that I will have two (2) installs of XP-Pro, one as a "safe
haven" and the other where I can play "hard-ball", or test new software
and hardware. In other words, just have fun and not worry about messing
things up.

I'm certainly open to suggestions, I've never heard of anyone doing this
but, according to the Microsoft Windows XP Inside Out eBook, it can be
done.

But doing this leads me to my next set of questions...

1) Can WinXP be "activated" more than once on the same PC?
If so, is there a limit to the number of installs?

2) Can Norton Internet Security 2006 ( product registration and 1
anti-virus subscription) be installed in both OS Installs?
I assume I'll need to run "Norton Live Update" from both installs.

Any help and ideas anyone has to offer would be appreciated!

Best regards and Happy Holidays,

Richard in Va.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Thanks for the input but I am just attaching an external drive - like a big
memory card but i believe the drive has to be formatted


"Richard In Va." wrote:

I've been running Win-XP Home for several years now and the time has come
for a fresh install on a new hard drive. (Hard drive issues).

I bought a new Drive, 160GB as well as WinXP-Pro retail upgrade.

I'd like to setup a multi-boot configuration and would like someone to
look-over my shoulder and give a little advise.

This is what I think I want to do...

Remove all hardware, PCI and external devices (except video card).

a) Partition the new "Basic" drive as follows via XP-Pro CD...
Partition #1 = Drive "C" = 25GB and set as "Active" , Label as
"WinXP-Pro1".
Install WinXP-Pro (to partition #1).
Boot-up and cancel all "Found New Hardware" messages.
Confirm that the page file is sized the way I want.
Install Chipset Drivers.
Install Application Accelerator.
Reboot to let "Found New Hardware" install system (onboard)
drivers.
or....
Open Device Manager and "Scan for hardware changes".
Install Video Driver (nVidia reference driver).
Cancel all Windows Activation messages. (till the job is
successfully complete).

b) Via Windows drive Mgr, create a new Partition.
Partition #2 = Drive "D" = 25GB and set as "Active" , Label as
"WinXP-Pro2".
With WinXP-Pro running, reinsert the XP CD and choose to do a
"Custom" install.
Direct the 2nd install towards the 2nd partition.
This should create a multi-boot configuration.
Follow the steps as above (a) to bring both installs to the
same state.

Go To... StartSettingsControl PanelSystemAdvancedStartup And
RecoverySettingsSystem Startup and select the "edit" button to edit the
boot.ini file and give each install a unique name to list on the boot menu.

Open Disk Mgr. and create a new extended (dos) partition to use the
remaining 110GB +/-.
Via Disk Mgr. Create a "Logical" drive "E" = 30GB and label as "Programs".

- Install network card, log-on to each install, install network
drivers/setup ISP.
- Install Sound Card, log-on to each install, install drivers and target
audio software towards the "E" "Programs" logical drive.
- One-at-a-time, install remaining PCI devices and a printer in each of the
installs.
(target all software to install onto the "E" "Programs" logical drive.)
(each OS install will share the same program files).
- Log-on to each install and run MS Windows update.

Via Disk Mgr., format the remaining 80GB +/- in the extended partition as a
new logical drive labeled "Documents".

The idea is that I will have two (2) installs of XP-Pro, one as a "safe
haven" and the other where I can play "hard-ball", or test new software and
hardware. In other words, just have fun and not worry about messing things
up.

I'm certainly open to suggestions, I've never heard of anyone doing this
but, according to the Microsoft Windows XP Inside Out eBook, it can be done.

But doing this leads me to my next set of questions...

1) Can WinXP be "activated" more than once on the same PC?
If so, is there a limit to the number of installs?

2) Can Norton Internet Security 2006 ( product registration and 1
anti-virus subscription) be installed in both OS Installs?
I assume I'll need to run "Norton Live Update" from both installs.

Any help and ideas anyone has to offer would be appreciated!

Best regards and Happy Holidays,

Richard in Va.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++