Application test puzzler - FFMPEG with 10074 x64

On Wed, 13 May 2015 19:04:58 -0400, Paul wrote:

Ed Cryer wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2015 05:16:07 -0400, Paul wrote:

Ed Cryer wrote:


How ready is Ffmpeg for Windows 10?
I'd go to the horse's mouth before spending hours trying to solve this.
There's a forum here;
https://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/forum/
and they have a group for developers using Windows software.

Ed

Well, I know exactly what's wrong now.

I ran ffprobe on the input file, a ~16GB AVI file.
[snip]


I was going to gently remind you that AVI, as a video container
format, had
pretty well become obsolete by the mid to late 90's, but after reading
the
rest of the thread I see that you're having fun with the experiments, so
play on. :-)



I went up to Seascale last week for a break. (Yes I know it's right next
door to Sellafield, but I didn't break my heart (Ah, ah! Only a fellow
Brit will understand that)) - anyway, I took my Samsung camera with me.
It's an ES67 and I bought it brand new a couple of years ago.
So then, I took some stills and movies.
Back home I download them onto the PC; and, guess what format the videos
are in! Yes, you guessed, AVI.

Ed


AVI is fine, as long as you keep your movies... short :-)

That's what I'm learning.

I've got another test run underway. This time, the container
is .mov :-) I don't have a working player, but that's never
stopped me before :-) [If I had to, I could always boot
up the Mac.]

For this run, the movie goes from 6GB .mp4 to 800GB RGB .mov,
and eventually (after the baking session), will be delivered
as piping hot CinePak in AVI. Ready to pop into AviDemux for
a test. Only 30 hours to go... The purpose of the 800GB
intermediate step, is a format without keyframes. Then, if
any snipping or joining needs to be done, there are fewer
issues with time granularity. For example, there are
a few comments about joining videos, that the first two
seconds of sound get blanked out. And that could be related
to the sound compression method. I'm using PCM as an
attempt to avoid that issue.

avi...cinepak...avidemux...mov

It's like a flashback to 20 years ago. :-)

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2015 19:04:58 -0400, Paul wrote:

Ed Cryer wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2015 05:16:07 -0400, Paul wrote:

Ed Cryer wrote:

How ready is Ffmpeg for Windows 10?
I'd go to the horse's mouth before spending hours trying to solve this.
There's a forum here;
https://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/forum/
and they have a group for developers using Windows software.

Ed
Well, I know exactly what's wrong now.

I ran ffprobe on the input file, a ~16GB AVI file.
[snip]


I was going to gently remind you that AVI, as a video container
format, had
pretty well become obsolete by the mid to late 90's, but after reading
the
rest of the thread I see that you're having fun with the experiments, so
play on. :-)


I went up to Seascale last week for a break. (Yes I know it's right next
door to Sellafield, but I didn't break my heart (Ah, ah! Only a fellow
Brit will understand that)) - anyway, I took my Samsung camera with me.
It's an ES67 and I bought it brand new a couple of years ago.
So then, I took some stills and movies.
Back home I download them onto the PC; and, guess what format the videos
are in! Yes, you guessed, AVI.

Ed

AVI is fine, as long as you keep your movies... short :-)

That's what I'm learning.

I've got another test run underway. This time, the container
is .mov :-) I don't have a working player, but that's never
stopped me before :-) [If I had to, I could always boot
up the Mac.]

For this run, the movie goes from 6GB .mp4 to 800GB RGB .mov,
and eventually (after the baking session), will be delivered
as piping hot CinePak in AVI. Ready to pop into AviDemux for
a test. Only 30 hours to go... The purpose of the 800GB
intermediate step, is a format without keyframes. Then, if
any snipping or joining needs to be done, there are fewer
issues with time granularity. For example, there are
a few comments about joining videos, that the first two
seconds of sound get blanked out. And that could be related
to the sound compression method. I'm using PCM as an
attempt to avoid that issue.

avi...cinepak...avidemux...mov

It's like a flashback to 20 years ago. :-)


Seeing as video is a very large, multidimensional, sparse
matrix, sometimes you don't have a choice in what you
get to use. Video exists, in a permanently broken space.

Sure, if someone bakes your video for you, it
arrives in some sort of "working" state. However,
if the presentation isn't working all that well,
the path to making a second "working" setup can
be pretty damn long.

The thing is, not every container, supports every codec.
I tried .mkv, and it wouldn't accept non-compressed audio.
The .avi is busted at the 4GB mark. And .mov supports
uncompressed audio, so .mov got the nod.

And I need to get rid of compressed audio (at least
temporarily), so I can split the video into N segments,
use N single threaded conversions programs (to make
best usage of the multicore processor), then
concatenate the segments back together again.
With the uncompressed audio, I can get seamless
splicing of the segments (already tested and
working, in a 12 minute test video).

I don't want to waste a 40 hour run, only to discover
"glitches" when joining the video segments without
re-encoding them.

Paul

On Thu, 14 May 2015 08:50:36 -0400, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2015 19:04:58 -0400, Paul wrote:

Ed Cryer wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2015 05:16:07 -0400, Paul wrote:

Ed Cryer wrote:

How ready is Ffmpeg for Windows 10?
I'd go to the horse's mouth before spending hours trying to solve this.
There's a forum here;
https://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/forum/
and they have a group for developers using Windows software.

Ed
Well, I know exactly what's wrong now.

I ran ffprobe on the input file, a ~16GB AVI file.
[snip]


I was going to gently remind you that AVI, as a video container
format, had
pretty well become obsolete by the mid to late 90's, but after reading
the
rest of the thread I see that you're having fun with the experiments, so
play on. :-)


I went up to Seascale last week for a break. (Yes I know it's right next
door to Sellafield, but I didn't break my heart (Ah, ah! Only a fellow
Brit will understand that)) - anyway, I took my Samsung camera with me.
It's an ES67 and I bought it brand new a couple of years ago.
So then, I took some stills and movies.
Back home I download them onto the PC; and, guess what format the videos
are in! Yes, you guessed, AVI.

Ed

AVI is fine, as long as you keep your movies... short :-)

That's what I'm learning.

I've got another test run underway. This time, the container
is .mov :-) I don't have a working player, but that's never
stopped me before :-) [If I had to, I could always boot
up the Mac.]

For this run, the movie goes from 6GB .mp4 to 800GB RGB .mov,
and eventually (after the baking session), will be delivered
as piping hot CinePak in AVI. Ready to pop into AviDemux for
a test. Only 30 hours to go... The purpose of the 800GB
intermediate step, is a format without keyframes. Then, if
any snipping or joining needs to be done, there are fewer
issues with time granularity. For example, there are
a few comments about joining videos, that the first two
seconds of sound get blanked out. And that could be related
to the sound compression method. I'm using PCM as an
attempt to avoid that issue.

avi...cinepak...avidemux...mov

It's like a flashback to 20 years ago. :-)


Seeing as video is a very large, multidimensional, sparse
matrix, sometimes you don't have a choice in what you
get to use. Video exists, in a permanently broken space.

Sure, if someone bakes your video for you, it
arrives in some sort of "working" state. However,
if the presentation isn't working all that well,
the path to making a second "working" setup can
be pretty damn long.

The thing is, not every container, supports every codec.
I tried .mkv, and it wouldn't accept non-compressed audio.

I assume you're using PCM? Did you try converting it to WAV?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156530

The .avi is busted at the 4GB mark. And .mov supports
uncompressed audio, so .mov got the nod.

I don't do much with video anymore, but if it were me, I'd insist on using
mp4 video (in any of its common and CURRENT flavors) and probably WAV audio
if there turned out to be sync issues. If audio sync isn't a problem, then
ac3 or even mp3. I would wrap everything in a mkv container, and presto, I'm
in the current century.

And I need to get rid of compressed audio (at least
temporarily), so I can split the video into N segments,
use N single threaded conversions programs (to make
best usage of the multicore processor), then
concatenate the segments back together again.
With the uncompressed audio, I can get seamless
splicing of the segments (already tested and
working, in a 12 minute test video).

Is the end goal to arrive at a working video, or are you torture testing
your PC? I honestly can't tell what you're trying to do. I know you do a lot
of testing, so I'm guessing you wanted a test that utilizes all processor
cores, and the video is just a means to an end.

I don't want to waste a 40 hour run, only to discover
"glitches" when joining the video segments without
re-encoding them.

Although, that last part makes me wonder if perhaps you really do care about
the video.

Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 14 May 2015 08:50:36 -0400, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2015 19:04:58 -0400, Paul wrote:

Ed Cryer wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2015 05:16:07 -0400, Paul wrote:

Ed Cryer wrote:

How ready is Ffmpeg for Windows 10?
I'd go to the horse's mouth before spending hours trying to solve this.
There's a forum here;
https://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/forum/
and they have a group for developers using Windows software.

Ed
Well, I know exactly what's wrong now.

I ran ffprobe on the input file, a ~16GB AVI file.
[snip]


I was going to gently remind you that AVI, as a video container
format, had
pretty well become obsolete by the mid to late 90's, but after reading
the
rest of the thread I see that you're having fun with the experiments, so
play on. :-)


I went up to Seascale last week for a break. (Yes I know it's right next
door to Sellafield, but I didn't break my heart (Ah, ah! Only a fellow
Brit will understand that)) - anyway, I took my Samsung camera with me.
It's an ES67 and I bought it brand new a couple of years ago.
So then, I took some stills and movies.
Back home I download them onto the PC; and, guess what format the videos
are in! Yes, you guessed, AVI.

Ed

AVI is fine, as long as you keep your movies... short :-)

That's what I'm learning.

I've got another test run underway. This time, the container
is .mov :-) I don't have a working player, but that's never
stopped me before :-) [If I had to, I could always boot
up the Mac.]

For this run, the movie goes from 6GB .mp4 to 800GB RGB .mov,
and eventually (after the baking session), will be delivered
as piping hot CinePak in AVI. Ready to pop into AviDemux for
a test. Only 30 hours to go... The purpose of the 800GB
intermediate step, is a format without keyframes. Then, if
any snipping or joining needs to be done, there are fewer
issues with time granularity. For example, there are
a few comments about joining videos, that the first two
seconds of sound get blanked out. And that could be related
to the sound compression method. I'm using PCM as an
attempt to avoid that issue.
avi...cinepak...avidemux...mov

It's like a flashback to 20 years ago. :-)

Seeing as video is a very large, multidimensional, sparse
matrix, sometimes you don't have a choice in what you
get to use. Video exists, in a permanently broken space.

Sure, if someone bakes your video for you, it
arrives in some sort of "working" state. However,
if the presentation isn't working all that well,
the path to making a second "working" setup can
be pretty damn long.

The thing is, not every container, supports every codec.
I tried .mkv, and it wouldn't accept non-compressed audio.

I assume you're using PCM? Did you try converting it to WAV?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156530

The .avi is busted at the 4GB mark. And .mov supports
uncompressed audio, so .mov got the nod.

I don't do much with video anymore, but if it were me, I'd insist on using
mp4 video (in any of its common and CURRENT flavors) and probably WAV audio
if there turned out to be sync issues. If audio sync isn't a problem, then
ac3 or even mp3. I would wrap everything in a mkv container, and presto, I'm
in the current century.

And I need to get rid of compressed audio (at least
temporarily), so I can split the video into N segments,
use N single threaded conversions programs (to make
best usage of the multicore processor), then
concatenate the segments back together again.
With the uncompressed audio, I can get seamless
splicing of the segments (already tested and
working, in a 12 minute test video).

Is the end goal to arrive at a working video, or are you torture testing
your PC? I honestly can't tell what you're trying to do. I know you do a lot
of testing, so I'm guessing you wanted a test that utilizes all processor
cores, and the video is just a means to an end.

I don't want to waste a 40 hour run, only to discover
"glitches" when joining the video segments without
re-encoding them.

Although, that last part makes me wonder if perhaps you really do care about
the video.


I'm finding the Cinepak gives excellent performance,
in that it takes very little CPU to decode. Which
makes the video seek quite smoothly. Other formats
have a bit of decoding overhead. This is a one-off
experiment, because with the performance level
of the encoder I'm using, it just isn't practical
in any way. But I'm following through on the project,
to see how well it works.

The thing is, I'm finding even some uncompressed
formats don't work all that well. For some reason,
performance wise, the Cinepak seems to be in the
middle. With uncompressed, I was pulling maybe
50MB/sec off the hard drive. Which isn't a problem,
except something weird was happening to audio that
I couldn't figure out. I might have just left
it in some uncompressed format, and played with
the video that way, if it wasn't for the audio problem.
Audio always played, but it was modulated (gravel
sound).

I just find the heavily compressed formats, they
don't work all that well for random access. Plenty
of times I've had the sound disabled, so I have to
close the file and open it again. Or close the player
and open it again.

Paul

On Thu, 14 May 2015 14:04:57 -0400, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 14 May 2015 08:50:36 -0400, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2015 19:04:58 -0400, Paul wrote:

Ed Cryer wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2015 05:16:07 -0400, Paul wrote:

Ed Cryer wrote:

How ready is Ffmpeg for Windows 10?
I'd go to the horse's mouth before spending hours trying to solve this.
There's a forum here;
https://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/forum/
and they have a group for developers using Windows software.

Ed
Well, I know exactly what's wrong now.

I ran ffprobe on the input file, a ~16GB AVI file.
[snip]


I was going to gently remind you that AVI, as a video container
format, had
pretty well become obsolete by the mid to late 90's, but after reading
the
rest of the thread I see that you're having fun with the experiments, so
play on. :-)


I went up to Seascale last week for a break. (Yes I know it's right next
door to Sellafield, but I didn't break my heart (Ah, ah! Only a fellow
Brit will understand that)) - anyway, I took my Samsung camera with me.
It's an ES67 and I bought it brand new a couple of years ago.
So then, I took some stills and movies.
Back home I download them onto the PC; and, guess what format the videos
are in! Yes, you guessed, AVI.

Ed

AVI is fine, as long as you keep your movies... short :-)

That's what I'm learning.

I've got another test run underway. This time, the container
is .mov :-) I don't have a working player, but that's never
stopped me before :-) [If I had to, I could always boot
up the Mac.]

For this run, the movie goes from 6GB .mp4 to 800GB RGB .mov,
and eventually (after the baking session), will be delivered
as piping hot CinePak in AVI. Ready to pop into AviDemux for
a test. Only 30 hours to go... The purpose of the 800GB
intermediate step, is a format without keyframes. Then, if
any snipping or joining needs to be done, there are fewer
issues with time granularity. For example, there are
a few comments about joining videos, that the first two
seconds of sound get blanked out. And that could be related
to the sound compression method. I'm using PCM as an
attempt to avoid that issue.
avi...cinepak...avidemux...mov

It's like a flashback to 20 years ago. :-)

Seeing as video is a very large, multidimensional, sparse
matrix, sometimes you don't have a choice in what you
get to use. Video exists, in a permanently broken space.

Sure, if someone bakes your video for you, it
arrives in some sort of "working" state. However,
if the presentation isn't working all that well,
the path to making a second "working" setup can
be pretty damn long.

The thing is, not every container, supports every codec.
I tried .mkv, and it wouldn't accept non-compressed audio.

I assume you're using PCM? Did you try converting it to WAV?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156530

The .avi is busted at the 4GB mark. And .mov supports
uncompressed audio, so .mov got the nod.

I don't do much with video anymore, but if it were me, I'd insist on using
mp4 video (in any of its common and CURRENT flavors) and probably WAV audio
if there turned out to be sync issues. If audio sync isn't a problem, then
ac3 or even mp3. I would wrap everything in a mkv container, and presto, I'm
in the current century.

And I need to get rid of compressed audio (at least
temporarily), so I can split the video into N segments,
use N single threaded conversions programs (to make
best usage of the multicore processor), then
concatenate the segments back together again.
With the uncompressed audio, I can get seamless
splicing of the segments (already tested and
working, in a 12 minute test video).

Is the end goal to arrive at a working video, or are you torture testing
your PC? I honestly can't tell what you're trying to do. I know you do a lot
of testing, so I'm guessing you wanted a test that utilizes all processor
cores, and the video is just a means to an end.

I don't want to waste a 40 hour run, only to discover
"glitches" when joining the video segments without
re-encoding them.

Although, that last part makes me wonder if perhaps you really do care about
the video.


I'm finding the Cinepak gives excellent performance,
in that it takes very little CPU to decode. Which
makes the video seek quite smoothly. Other formats
have a bit of decoding overhead. This is a one-off
experiment, because with the performance level
of the encoder I'm using, it just isn't practical
in any way. But I'm following through on the project,
to see how well it works.

The thing is, I'm finding even some uncompressed
formats don't work all that well. For some reason,
performance wise, the Cinepak seems to be in the
middle. With uncompressed, I was pulling maybe
50MB/sec off the hard drive. Which isn't a problem,
except something weird was happening to audio that
I couldn't figure out. I might have just left
it in some uncompressed format, and played with
the video that way, if it wasn't for the audio problem.
Audio always played, but it was modulated (gravel
sound).

I just find the heavily compressed formats, they
don't work all that well for random access. Plenty
of times I've had the sound disabled, so I have to
close the file and open it again. Or close the player
and open it again.

What is your starting point, as in the video and audio formats of the source
material and the container they happen to be in, and why do you need to
convert it?

I haven't experienced the audio and seek issues that you describe, so I'm
guessing it has something to do with the source material and/or your player.
Which player(s) have you tried? I use MPC-HC exclusively.