35 years of printing, they still can't do it right

Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2015 03:28:10 -0000, GreyCloud wrote:

philo wrote:

On 10/23/2015 08:24 AM, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
Why is it after 35 years of desktop printers, they're still stupidly
designed?

I was in the middle of a print job and one of the colours ran out
(without it knowing). So I removed the paper to stop it from doing any
more the wrong colour, then opened the door. The ink cartridges were
hidden away. So I closed the lid, inserted some paper, then once it
started going and the cartridges were in the right place, I opened the
lid and placed my finger in the way so they could be accessed. I
changed the cartridge and both LEDs flash at once. Ok, it's upset, so
I turn it off and on again, and it moves the cartridges back and looks
happy. So I print the print job it's forgotten to complete for some
reason, and I then get more flashing, in morse code. I eventually
found this on the internet:

"If the orange LED flashes 16 times (!) followed by the green LED once,
the ink level cannot be detected, and you should press the resume/paper
feed button for at least 5 seconds to continue printing."

How ****ing difficult is it to detect when you change a cartridge, then
simply count how much it's used then assume it's empty?


My wife and I exclusively use Epson printers, they will not start a job
unless it determines there is enough ink to print it entirely.

We just replaced one after ten years of nearly flawless service.



Side note:

Right after my wife ordered several hundred dollars worth of ink...the
printer shot up an error message that it was at the end of it's useful
service. We got about 12 more prints and it died.

Fortunately they gave us a full refund on all the unused ink.

They have a 30 day return policy IIRC

Hi, Philo.

Say, I've got this HP 6810 all-in-one. When I print a photo from either
an iMac or PC, the print out on photo paper is very dark and far from
what the
original one is. The other HP printer does it right. What would cause
this?

Is it the same brand of ink you're using?

Brand new printer with stock cartridges.


Are there any colour settings in either of the drivers?

None whatsoever that I could find. Works the same on both an iMac and PC.

On Sat, 07 Nov 2015 19:33:24 -0000, GreyCloud wrote:

Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2015 03:28:10 -0000, GreyCloud wrote:

philo wrote:

On 10/23/2015 08:24 AM, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
Why is it after 35 years of desktop printers, they're still stupidly
designed?

I was in the middle of a print job and one of the colours ran out
(without it knowing). So I removed the paper to stop it from doing any
more the wrong colour, then opened the door. The ink cartridges were
hidden away. So I closed the lid, inserted some paper, then once it
started going and the cartridges were in the right place, I opened the
lid and placed my finger in the way so they could be accessed. I
changed the cartridge and both LEDs flash at once. Ok, it's upset, so
I turn it off and on again, and it moves the cartridges back and looks
happy. So I print the print job it's forgotten to complete for some
reason, and I then get more flashing, in morse code. I eventually
found this on the internet:

"If the orange LED flashes 16 times (!) followed by the green LED once,
the ink level cannot be detected, and you should press the resume/paper
feed button for at least 5 seconds to continue printing."

How ****ing difficult is it to detect when you change a cartridge, then
simply count how much it's used then assume it's empty?


My wife and I exclusively use Epson printers, they will not start a job
unless it determines there is enough ink to print it entirely.

We just replaced one after ten years of nearly flawless service.



Side note:

Right after my wife ordered several hundred dollars worth of ink...the
printer shot up an error message that it was at the end of it's useful
service. We got about 12 more prints and it died.

Fortunately they gave us a full refund on all the unused ink.

They have a 30 day return policy IIRC

Hi, Philo.

Say, I've got this HP 6810 all-in-one. When I print a photo from either
an iMac or PC, the print out on photo paper is very dark and far from
what the
original one is. The other HP printer does it right. What would cause
this?

Is it the same brand of ink you're using?

Brand new printer with stock cartridges.


Are there any colour settings in either of the drivers?

None whatsoever that I could find. Works the same on both an iMac and PC.

Very odd indeed.

It can't be the driver if two completely different systems produce the same fault (unless the default is warm colours on one and cool on the other or something weird like that?)

It shouldn't be the ink unless one of the inks is out of date or a faulty batch? Knowing HP, chances are the ink cartridges aren't the same so you can't swap to test.....

What you could do is print some blocks of cyan, magenta, black, and yellow on both printers from the same photo program from the same computer. That would narrow it down to perhaps one ink? Maybe a pipe is partially blocked?

--
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

On 23/10/2015 14:44, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
It's no use detecting a cartridge change as it's the ink delivery to
the print head that must be detected. That's not easy to do. It's
difficult to measure how much ink is being used as the delivery rate
varies depends on what is printed.

Surely the one thing that knows exactly what is being printed and how
it's being printed it is the printer that's printing it.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

On 23/10/2015 17:51, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
Yep, about 7 years ago I decided I had paid enough for their Super
Expensive colored ink so I purchased an Okidata color Laser printer and
have been more than happy with it ever since.
I don't buy original toner carts as they are too expensive but can get
brand new aftermarket cartridges from Toner Parts for about 1/4 of the
price, these are 5000 sheet carts and last me about 2 years, YMMV
depending on use.
I will never go back to inkjets again.

Is it good enough for photos?

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

Brian Gregory wrote:
On 23/10/2015 14:44, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
It's no use detecting a cartridge change as it's the ink delivery to
the print head that must be detected. That's not easy to do. It's
difficult to measure how much ink is being used as the delivery rate
varies depends on what is printed.

Surely the one thing that knows exactly what is being printed and how
it's being printed it is the printer that's printing it.


It's 2 picoliters per dot, times the number of firings :-)

Paul

On 11/7/2015 5:35 PM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2015-11-07 18:17, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 23/10/2015 17:51, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
Yep, about 7 years ago I decided I had paid enough for their Super
Expensive colored ink so I purchased an Okidata color Laser printer and
have been more than happy with it ever since.
I don't buy original toner carts as they are too expensive but can get
brand new aftermarket cartridges from Toner Parts for about 1/4 of the
price, these are 5000 sheet carts and last me about 2 years, YMMV
depending on use.
I will never go back to inkjets again.

Is it good enough for photos?

Brochure or advertising-quality pictures? Sure. Photo-quality as usually
understood? No.


As Wolf wrote, not really good enough for true Photos, Passable for
casual Pictures at a distance. Really super for web pages and presentations.

Regards, Rene

Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2015 19:33:24 -0000, GreyCloud wrote:

Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2015 03:28:10 -0000, GreyCloud wrote:

philo wrote:

On 10/23/2015 08:24 AM, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
Why is it after 35 years of desktop printers, they're still stupidly
designed?

I was in the middle of a print job and one of the colours ran out
(without it knowing). So I removed the paper to stop it from doing
any
more the wrong colour, then opened the door. The ink cartridges were
hidden away. So I closed the lid, inserted some paper, then once it
started going and the cartridges were in the right place, I opened
the
lid and placed my finger in the way so they could be accessed. I
changed the cartridge and both LEDs flash at once. Ok, it's upset,
so I turn it off and on again, and it moves the cartridges back and
looks
happy. So I print the print job it's forgotten to complete for some
reason, and I then get more flashing, in morse code. I eventually
found this on the internet:

"If the orange LED flashes 16 times (!) followed by the green LED
once, the ink level cannot be detected, and you should press the
resume/paper feed button for at least 5 seconds to continue
printing."

How ****ing difficult is it to detect when you change a cartridge,
then simply count how much it's used then assume it's empty?


My wife and I exclusively use Epson printers, they will not start a
job unless it determines there is enough ink to print it entirely.

We just replaced one after ten years of nearly flawless service.



Side note:

Right after my wife ordered several hundred dollars worth of ink...the
printer shot up an error message that it was at the end of it's useful
service. We got about 12 more prints and it died.

Fortunately they gave us a full refund on all the unused ink.

They have a 30 day return policy IIRC

Hi, Philo.

Say, I've got this HP 6810 all-in-one. When I print a photo from
either an iMac or PC, the print out on photo paper is very dark and far
from what the
original one is. The other HP printer does it right. What would
cause this?

Is it the same brand of ink you're using?

Brand new printer with stock cartridges.


Are there any colour settings in either of the drivers?

None whatsoever that I could find. Works the same on both an iMac and
PC.

Very odd indeed.

It can't be the driver if two completely different systems produce the
same fault (unless the default is warm colours on one and cool on the
other or something weird like that?)

It shouldn't be the ink unless one of the inks is out of date or a faulty
batch? Knowing HP, chances are the ink cartridges aren't the same so you
can't swap to test.....

What you could do is print some blocks of cyan, magenta, black, and yellow
on both printers from the same photo program from the same computer. That
would narrow it down to perhaps one ink? Maybe a pipe is partially
blocked?


The test pages come out like they are supposed to on plain paper.
I dug around and found one person that had the same problem and replaced the
ink cartridges and apparently solved the problem. It seems there are some
electronics in the cartridges themselves. Another thing I noticed when I
got it new, was that one of the ink cartridges wouldn't seat and spring back
out. So, when I run out of ink doing normal printing and replace the
cartridges I'll find out.
If that doesn't work, then I bought a pig in a poke.

Then I'll just go get an Epson printer and see how bad that turns out.

The interesting thing is that I'm still on the original cartridges that came
with the HP since April of this year. An earlier HP with the large pull out
ink wells didn't last as long as these have so far.

On Mon, 09 Nov 2015 21:17:06 -0700, GreyCloud wrote:

The test pages come out like they are supposed to on plain paper.
I dug around and found one person that had the same problem and replaced the
ink cartridges and apparently solved the problem. It seems there are some
electronics in the cartridges themselves. Another thing I noticed when I
got it new, was that one of the ink cartridges wouldn't seat and spring back
out. So, when I run out of ink doing normal printing and replace the
cartridges I'll find out.
If that doesn't work, then I bought a pig in a poke.

My Brother printer warns me WELL BEFORE any ink runs out
If I don't change the ink, it's MY fault, not the printer.

My previous Canon did the same.

On Mon, 09 Nov 2015 20:26:18 -0800, The New Other Guy
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Nov 2015 21:17:06 -0700, GreyCloud wrote:

The test pages come out like they are supposed to on plain paper.
I dug around and found one person that had the same problem and replaced the
ink cartridges and apparently solved the problem. It seems there are some
electronics in the cartridges themselves. Another thing I noticed when I
got it new, was that one of the ink cartridges wouldn't seat and spring back
out. So, when I run out of ink doing normal printing and replace the
cartridges I'll find out.
If that doesn't work, then I bought a pig in a poke.

My Brother printer warns me WELL BEFORE any ink runs out
If I don't change the ink, it's MY fault, not the printer.

My previous Canon did the same.



My Canon MG4250 warns me of ink running out much too soon. It's a
selling trick. The result is I have a spare pair of expensive
cartridges sitting in the spares drawer for months before they are
needed. I prefer the more economical "just in time" spares system now
that cartridges are more expensive than the printer.

Steve

--
Neural Network Software for Windows http://www.npsnn.com

On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 09:24:03 +0000, Stephen Wolstenholme
wrote:

My Canon MG4250 warns me of ink running out much too soon. It's a
selling trick. The result is I have a spare pair of expensive
cartridges sitting in the spares drawer for months before they are
needed. I prefer the more economical "just in time" spares system now
that cartridges are more expensive than the printer.

That was a problem on my Canon, but the ink for the Brother is cheap,
AND lasts far longer than I had any reason to expect.

Print quality is fine, not quite as good on pictures as the Canon,
but it has almost never jammed, twice in over a year, unlike the Canon
and previous Epsons, that would hang about once a month or more.

On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 04:17:06 -0000, GreyCloud wrote:

Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2015 19:33:24 -0000, GreyCloud wrote:

Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2015 03:28:10 -0000, GreyCloud wrote:

philo wrote:

On 10/23/2015 08:24 AM, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
Why is it after 35 years of desktop printers, they're still stupidly
designed?

I was in the middle of a print job and one of the colours ran out
(without it knowing). So I removed the paper to stop it from doing
any
more the wrong colour, then opened the door. The ink cartridges were
hidden away. So I closed the lid, inserted some paper, then once it
started going and the cartridges were in the right place, I opened
the
lid and placed my finger in the way so they could be accessed. I
changed the cartridge and both LEDs flash at once. Ok, it's upset,
so I turn it off and on again, and it moves the cartridges back and
looks
happy. So I print the print job it's forgotten to complete for some
reason, and I then get more flashing, in morse code. I eventually
found this on the internet:

"If the orange LED flashes 16 times (!) followed by the green LED
once, the ink level cannot be detected, and you should press the
resume/paper feed button for at least 5 seconds to continue
printing."

How ****ing difficult is it to detect when you change a cartridge,
then simply count how much it's used then assume it's empty?


My wife and I exclusively use Epson printers, they will not start a
job unless it determines there is enough ink to print it entirely.

We just replaced one after ten years of nearly flawless service.



Side note:

Right after my wife ordered several hundred dollars worth of ink...the
printer shot up an error message that it was at the end of it's useful
service. We got about 12 more prints and it died.

Fortunately they gave us a full refund on all the unused ink.

They have a 30 day return policy IIRC

Hi, Philo.

Say, I've got this HP 6810 all-in-one. When I print a photo from
either an iMac or PC, the print out on photo paper is very dark and far
from what the
original one is. The other HP printer does it right. What would
cause this?

Is it the same brand of ink you're using?

Brand new printer with stock cartridges.


Are there any colour settings in either of the drivers?

None whatsoever that I could find. Works the same on both an iMac and
PC.

Very odd indeed.

It can't be the driver if two completely different systems produce the
same fault (unless the default is warm colours on one and cool on the
other or something weird like that?)

It shouldn't be the ink unless one of the inks is out of date or a faulty
batch? Knowing HP, chances are the ink cartridges aren't the same so you
can't swap to test.....

What you could do is print some blocks of cyan, magenta, black, and yellow
on both printers from the same photo program from the same computer. That
would narrow it down to perhaps one ink? Maybe a pipe is partially
blocked?


The test pages come out like they are supposed to on plain paper.
I dug around and found one person that had the same problem and replaced the
ink cartridges and apparently solved the problem. It seems there are some
electronics in the cartridges themselves. Another thing I noticed when I
got it new, was that one of the ink cartridges wouldn't seat and spring back
out. So, when I run out of ink doing normal printing and replace the
cartridges I'll find out.
If that doesn't work, then I bought a pig in a poke.

Then I'll just go get an Epson printer and see how bad that turns out.

The interesting thing is that I'm still on the original cartridges that came
with the HP since April of this year. An earlier HP with the large pull out
ink wells didn't last as long as these have so far.

Printers with the cartridges just being ink tanks are a far better idea.

--
Make like a post-it note and stick around....

Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:

On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 04:17:06 -0000, GreyCloud wrote:

Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2015 19:33:24 -0000, GreyCloud wrote:

Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2015 03:28:10 -0000, GreyCloud
wrote:

philo wrote:

On 10/23/2015 08:24 AM, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
Why is it after 35 years of desktop printers, they're still
stupidly designed?

I was in the middle of a print job and one of the colours ran out
(without it knowing). So I removed the paper to stop it from doing
any
more the wrong colour, then opened the door. The ink cartridges
were
hidden away. So I closed the lid, inserted some paper, then once
it started going and the cartridges were in the right place, I
opened the
lid and placed my finger in the way so they could be accessed. I
changed the cartridge and both LEDs flash at once. Ok, it's upset,
so I turn it off and on again, and it moves the cartridges back and
looks
happy. So I print the print job it's forgotten to complete for
some
reason, and I then get more flashing, in morse code. I eventually
found this on the internet:

"If the orange LED flashes 16 times (!) followed by the green LED
once, the ink level cannot be detected, and you should press the
resume/paper feed button for at least 5 seconds to continue
printing."

How ****ing difficult is it to detect when you change a cartridge,
then simply count how much it's used then assume it's empty?


My wife and I exclusively use Epson printers, they will not start a
job unless it determines there is enough ink to print it entirely.

We just replaced one after ten years of nearly flawless service.



Side note:

Right after my wife ordered several hundred dollars worth of
ink...the printer shot up an error message that it was at the end of
it's useful service. We got about 12 more prints and it died.

Fortunately they gave us a full refund on all the unused ink.

They have a 30 day return policy IIRC

Hi, Philo.

Say, I've got this HP 6810 all-in-one. When I print a photo from
either an iMac or PC, the print out on photo paper is very dark and
far from what the
original one is. The other HP printer does it right. What would
cause this?

Is it the same brand of ink you're using?

Brand new printer with stock cartridges.


Are there any colour settings in either of the drivers?

None whatsoever that I could find. Works the same on both an iMac and
PC.

Very odd indeed.

It can't be the driver if two completely different systems produce the
same fault (unless the default is warm colours on one and cool on the
other or something weird like that?)

It shouldn't be the ink unless one of the inks is out of date or a
faulty
batch? Knowing HP, chances are the ink cartridges aren't the same so
you can't swap to test.....

What you could do is print some blocks of cyan, magenta, black, and
yellow
on both printers from the same photo program from the same computer.
That
would narrow it down to perhaps one ink? Maybe a pipe is partially
blocked?


The test pages come out like they are supposed to on plain paper.
I dug around and found one person that had the same problem and replaced
the
ink cartridges and apparently solved the problem. It seems there are
some
electronics in the cartridges themselves. Another thing I noticed when I
got it new, was that one of the ink cartridges wouldn't seat and spring
back
out. So, when I run out of ink doing normal printing and replace the
cartridges I'll find out.
If that doesn't work, then I bought a pig in a poke.

Then I'll just go get an Epson printer and see how bad that turns out.

The interesting thing is that I'm still on the original cartridges that
came
with the HP since April of this year. An earlier HP with the large pull
out ink wells didn't last as long as these have so far.

Printers with the cartridges just being ink tanks are a far better idea.

I thought so too when I bought an earlier HP with ink tanks.
Unfortunately, it kept on cycling thru the cleaning the print heads and the
waste ink trap overflowed onto the desk. Funny that none of these inkjets
have a removable tray to wash out the excess ink.

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 21:28:02 -0000, GreyCloud wrote:

Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:

On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 04:17:06 -0000, GreyCloud wrote:

Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2015 19:33:24 -0000, GreyCloud wrote:

Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:

On Sat, 07 Nov 2015 03:28:10 -0000, GreyCloud
wrote:

philo wrote:

On 10/23/2015 08:24 AM, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
Why is it after 35 years of desktop printers, they're still
stupidly designed?

I was in the middle of a print job and one of the colours ran out
(without it knowing). So I removed the paper to stop it from doing
any
more the wrong colour, then opened the door. The ink cartridges
were
hidden away. So I closed the lid, inserted some paper, then once
it started going and the cartridges were in the right place, I
opened the
lid and placed my finger in the way so they could be accessed. I
changed the cartridge and both LEDs flash at once. Ok, it's upset,
so I turn it off and on again, and it moves the cartridges back and
looks
happy. So I print the print job it's forgotten to complete for
some
reason, and I then get more flashing, in morse code. I eventually
found this on the internet:

"If the orange LED flashes 16 times (!) followed by the green LED
once, the ink level cannot be detected, and you should press the
resume/paper feed button for at least 5 seconds to continue
printing."

How ****ing difficult is it to detect when you change a cartridge,
then simply count how much it's used then assume it's empty?


My wife and I exclusively use Epson printers, they will not start a
job unless it determines there is enough ink to print it entirely.

We just replaced one after ten years of nearly flawless service.



Side note:

Right after my wife ordered several hundred dollars worth of
ink...the printer shot up an error message that it was at the end of
it's useful service. We got about 12 more prints and it died.

Fortunately they gave us a full refund on all the unused ink.

They have a 30 day return policy IIRC

Hi, Philo.

Say, I've got this HP 6810 all-in-one. When I print a photo from
either an iMac or PC, the print out on photo paper is very dark and
far from what the
original one is. The other HP printer does it right. What would
cause this?

Is it the same brand of ink you're using?

Brand new printer with stock cartridges.


Are there any colour settings in either of the drivers?

None whatsoever that I could find. Works the same on both an iMac and
PC.

Very odd indeed.

It can't be the driver if two completely different systems produce the
same fault (unless the default is warm colours on one and cool on the
other or something weird like that?)

It shouldn't be the ink unless one of the inks is out of date or a
faulty
batch? Knowing HP, chances are the ink cartridges aren't the same so
you can't swap to test.....

What you could do is print some blocks of cyan, magenta, black, and
yellow
on both printers from the same photo program from the same computer.
That
would narrow it down to perhaps one ink? Maybe a pipe is partially
blocked?


The test pages come out like they are supposed to on plain paper.
I dug around and found one person that had the same problem and replaced
the
ink cartridges and apparently solved the problem. It seems there are
some
electronics in the cartridges themselves. Another thing I noticed when I
got it new, was that one of the ink cartridges wouldn't seat and spring
back
out. So, when I run out of ink doing normal printing and replace the
cartridges I'll find out.
If that doesn't work, then I bought a pig in a poke.

Then I'll just go get an Epson printer and see how bad that turns out.

The interesting thing is that I'm still on the original cartridges that
came
with the HP since April of this year. An earlier HP with the large pull
out ink wells didn't last as long as these have so far.

Printers with the cartridges just being ink tanks are a far better idea.

I thought so too when I bought an earlier HP with ink tanks.
Unfortunately, it kept on cycling thru the cleaning the print heads and the
waste ink trap overflowed onto the desk. Funny that none of these inkjets
have a removable tray to wash out the excess ink.

I've never encountered any HP to be designed sensibly. I've seen other makes with removable trays, but I've only once had to empty one in 12 years of servicing hundreds of them. I guess most of the ink just evaporates.

--
Confucius say man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day.