O.T. - Connection Problem:

Mark Twain wrote:
Oh you just wanted me to go into the BIOS,...
but I wouldn't of known to go through all those
steps,....

I was able to make a Win7 Pro Sp1 DVD :

http://i66.tinypic.com/2ivmt61.jpg - Win 7 DVD complete

Then install all A/V,.... then bookmarks ,.. then data

However, before I do this a question arises,.. I
believe I have all of the A/V bookmarks on the 780
to get the 8500 up and going and I've saved my bookmarks
and should be able to import the HMTL version once I get
FF up and running.

but do I then use the latest Mrimg (8-25-16) to restore
my data and bring everything up to date? Otherwise how will
I safe and restore my data?


So once we have it set on saving my data I will try to use
system utilities to do this and keep the disk in reserve.

what do you think?

Robert

Well, the old Dell computers used alt-F11.

It appears the XPS8500, you use F8 while the computer
is booting. The same F8 you use to enter Safe Mode
before Windows starts. So the F8 is picked up just after
the BIOS has finished enumerating the disks, the screen
flashes to black, the blinking cursor is (for an instant)
in the upper left corner. If the F8 is pressed just
as Windows starts to boot, you can enter Safe Mode.

Apparently, the Dell Restore is an item in the F8 menu.
So the XPS8500 isn't quite the same as the 8200.

As with all startup-time key pressing, timing is
critical to getting the desired result. If the
computer "races past" your F8 presses, you'd have
to shut down Windows and try again.

The other post I wrote, would have the details
for using the factory restore option from the F8
Safe Mode menu.

*******

Regarding copying your data, Firefox profile, email
folder or whatever...

Make your "XPS8500_Aug25_2016.mrimg" now, so it will
hold your data. Using the usual Macrium recipe.

That file should be stored on your external disk.
The external disk can be disconnected during whatever
method you use for Windows 7 installation (factory
restore method or install-from-DVD method).

Install Windows 7.

When the install of Windows 7 is finished, install
the same version of Macrium as you're currently using.
That will be Macrium 6.

Later, reconnect the external 2TB disk.

Open the folder with "XPS8500_Aug25_2016.mrimg" in it.
Since Macrium is installed, it has a mounter service
running. Right-click the "XPS8500_Aug25_2016.mrimg" file.

There should be an item at the top of the context menu
that says "Explore image". Use that option.

http://knowledgebase.macrium.com/dis... dows+Explorer

It will show all the partitions in the Aug25 backup.
Tick all the boxes that have data you are
interested in. So that would be the old C: .
You should be able to control the drive letter
it uses, if you want it to be H: or J: or something.

There's also a tick box if you want restricted folders
to be accessible (I hadn't noticed that before).

Using File Explorer, you enter the new H: or J:
which is your "old C:" and copy the files out
of there into the "new C:". Simple copy and paste.

The above Macrium article shows that you can
also unmount the virtual H: drive when you're
finished. There is a Macrium item in the right-click
menu for the unmount operation.

And after that is done, you should be able to
"Safely Remove" the External 2TB drive from the
USB bus.

HTH,
Paul

Yes, it appears the 8500 is different
than the 8200 and I suppose the 780 may
be like the 8500.

To be honest, the last few days the system
has been coming up clean (except for being
slow) I almost don't want to do this.

I already have made the book marks and Mrimg
but made another just to be safe:

http://i63.tinypic.com/20qayxg.jpg - bookmarks

http://i68.tinypic.com/2dl9nrb.jpg - Mrimg

Ok,.. I think I understand .....

Here we go ,......

I first tried shutting off only the 8500
while keeping the 780 running but it went
directly Windows login so I shut both
computers off and after 30 seconds turned
the power back onto the modem and 8500 only.
It didn't even give me a chance to press F8
but went directly into the Windows logon
screen again.

It took 14 minutes to connect and when it did
the yellow triangle with black exclamation
mark was back.

Obviously we have to try the disk now but
before doing so I wondered if you had any
thoughts because the F8 should have worked
and this obviously is part of the problem.


Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
I first tried shutting off only the 8500
while keeping the 780 running but it went
directly Windows login so I shut both
computers off and after 30 seconds turned
the power back onto the modem and 8500 only.
It didn't even give me a chance to press F8
but went directly into the Windows logon
screen again.

It took 14 minutes to connect and when it did
the yellow triangle with black exclamation
mark was back.

Obviously we have to try the disk now but
before doing so I wondered if you had any
thoughts because the F8 should have worked
and this obviously is part of the problem.


Robert

No, the problem is a lack of documentation :-)

You can force it into Safe Mode, with msconfig.
But on some machines, this puts the machine
into a loop. So we're not going to do that.

Start with "cmd", Run As Administrator and open
an Administrator Command Prompt

bcdedit

Take a picture.

Here's mine, for my Win7 Pro install.

https://s9.postimg.org/6ed282r1r/win7_recovery.gif

Now, if the item with the red arrow next to it is
set to "No", if you did get into F8 Safe Mode,
then the top item to Repair The Computer might
not work. So that's one way a malware could interfere.

So while you're working on making a picture of the
bcdedit output (just to see if something has been
adjusting it), you should also work on the Dell DataSafe
task. DataSafe is supposed to be able to burn a copy
of the recovery partition on the hard drive. It might
take five DVD-R discs for all I know. See if DataSafe
program is willing to make recovery DVDs.

You can do the equivalent of the procedure, by using the
DVD set instead. You keep track of which DVD is the first
one - write a number on the hub or on the jewel box you
put your DVDs in. Try to make a recovery set of DVDs.

I hope the DataSafe can tell you how many discs
will be needed in advance, to make a factory
restore set.

*******

I'll have to Google around a bit, and see
if there is any other advice available about
XPS8500.

Paul

Paul wrote:
Mark Twain wrote:
I first tried shutting off only the 8500
while keeping the 780 running but it went directly Windows login so I
shut both computers off and after 30 seconds turned the power back
onto the modem and 8500 only. It didn't even give me a chance to press
F8 but went directly into the Windows logon screen again.
It took 14 minutes to connect and when it did the yellow triangle with
black exclamation
mark was back.
Obviously we have to try the disk now but before doing so I wondered
if you had any
thoughts because the F8 should have worked and this obviously is part
of the problem.

Robert

We can't use "bootmenupolicy legacy" on Windows 7,
so that won't work (I did this before once, and
it was ignored). It's possible some msconfig
looping boot issues might be related to that too.

So my thought right now, based on a quick test:

1) At BIOS time, Press the Popup Boot key.
Is that F2 on your machine ?

When you press that key while the BIOS is still enumerating
disk drives, it will present a list of disks. I can't remember
what the key is for your machine.

2) Now, with the list of disks visible, cursor down to
the only hard drive that should be showing right now.
That's probably your 1TB internal drive.

3) When you hit Return, it will immediately start to boot.

4) A microsecond later, start hitting "F8" Safe boot key.
( Return F8 F8 F8 ...)

I managed to get into Safe Mode that way. There is a
"Repair Your Computer" at the top of mine too, but the
contents won't be the same as yours. Yours will have
at least one "Dell" entry in there.

See if using Popup Boot, selecting the internal drive,
allows you to control the timing of your F8 key pressings.

Paul

Here's the bcdedit :

http://i68.tinypic.com/dmwmc4.jpg - bcdedit

I can't access the Dell Dada Safe because it
also requires f8.

To access Dell Data Safe ; Restart the computer.
When you see the Dell logo, tap the F8 key until
you access the Advanced Boot Options. Select Repair
Your Computer from the list. Next, select Dell
DataSafe Restore and Emergency Backup from the
System recovery Options and follow the onscreen
instructions to complete the recovery process.

also on the You Tube ( start at 5:43)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mubZzFkSpQ

I'll wait until trying the disk, until you think
it's ready.

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
Here's the bcdedit :

http://i68.tinypic.com/dmwmc4.jpg - bcdedit

RecoveryEnabled = Yes, so that's normal.
I don't see anything to suggest the BCD has
been edited by anything.


I can't access the Dell Dada Safe because it
also requires f8.

Go to your Program menu in Start right now,
and see if you have a Dell DataSafe Basic application.

That's where you go to make the factory DVD set.


To access Dell Data Safe ; Restart the computer.
When you see the Dell logo, tap the F8 key until

Sure, the code that restores using the partition
on the hard drive, is triggered by F8. If you use
the Popup Boot key, you might still be able to
get in using F8. Using the Popup Boot key in the
BIOS, will allow you to "time" the pressing of
F8, right after you select the internal disk
as the boot source.

If you cannot get F8 to work, then when you make
your DVD set with Datasafe, you can boot from that
DVD set instead.

Paul

Recently I noticed a red circle with a number 1
upper right on Yahoo but when I opened it, it has
all these junk about news stories. I didn't do anything
or sign up for anything this just popped up and I
can't get rid of it. It's there everyday.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2lm0unp.jpg - upper right

I found the file and application:

http://i63.tinypic.com/ih37sg.jpg - file

http://i66.tinypic.com/2ywiiwx.jpg - application

do I select Backup on the top left or Create Recovery
Media ( which kind of disk CD-R, DVD-RW or?)

Robert

Your saying use the Dell DataSafe Disks
to bypass F8 vs the Win 7 Pro disk we just
made off the ISO file?

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
Recently I noticed a red circle with a number 1
upper right on Yahoo but when I opened it, it has
all these junk about news stories. I didn't do anything
or sign up for anything this just popped up and I
can't get rid of it. It's there everyday.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2lm0unp.jpg - upper right

The bell is a notification icon. It's a way for
Yahoo to nag you about some new feature it is added,
or feed you a news story they think you will like.
Some users complained about it, but so far, I
don't see any option at all to remove it. I guess
having that bell is the "price of admission".
Nagware.


I found the file and application:

http://i63.tinypic.com/ih37sg.jpg - file

http://i66.tinypic.com/2ywiiwx.jpg - application

do I select Backup on the top left or Create Recovery
Media ( which kind of disk CD-R, DVD-RW or?)

Robert

I would think Create Recovery Media is the one.

I don't know what kind of blank DVDs you have
or how many. Apparently the program whines if
you use re-writeable DVD media (DVD+RW or DVD-RW).
And I don't think it will make ISO9660 files either.
Those would be ideal, since you then know how
many it has made, and can stock up on an appropriate
amount of media to make your disc set.

Making a version that fits on a USB stick would
be a nice option, but then you need to have
spare USB sticks floating around to use for
the purpose. A typical modern 32GB USB stick,
should be big enough to hold all of it, and be
ready to do a factory restore. But traditionally,
all tools like this burn is the DVD set.

You'll need to have enough DVDs to do the job.
You can see the size of the recovery partition
(normally 12GB, yours is bigger), and a
12GB factory restore would be 3 DVDs.

The driver disc would be a fourth DVD.
But since that partition is larger, a few more
might be required.

Because there's no decent documentation, it's
like working in the dark.

And my laptop software for the same purpose,
didn't tell me how many DVDs I'd need, and I just
had enough to finish the job. No spares.

Paul

Mark Twain wrote:
Your saying use the Dell DataSafe Disks
to bypass F8 vs the Win 7 Pro disk we just
made off the ISO file?

Robert

Three options:

1) Boot with a (Retail) Win7 SP1 DVD and install.
Cons - pain in the ass to activate
- Must install drivers, in the fullness of time
Should at least run when you are finished
doing the install.

2) Factory restore from the partition on the hard drive.
Time the pressing of F8 carefully...

Cons - erases all of your C: (you have your backup
for this reason)
Pros - has the drivers for the base hardware already in place.
Check Device Manager for missing stuff.
If the video card is a replacement for the original,
you may need a more recent driver for that.

3) Factory restore from 3+1 DVD set.

Pros - no messy timing on F8 key.
- assumes DVD drive is first in boot order

Cons - slower during restoration, 6MB/sec versus 30MB/sec
for the hard drive method in (2). It will take
longer to complete, and you have to come back and
load the next DVD when it asks. So that part will
be annoying too.

(2) is a reasonably nice option, *if* you can get the F8 timing right.
I'm just going by my test here, where I was able to get the F8
entered properly, if I used my pop-up boot menu to select
the internal disk at start time.

(3) could be pretty nice, if it would put the stuff on a
USB stick. But then you have to own a USB stick suited
for the job. And at this point, I don't know if the
software you're looking at now, has an option to
make a USB stick. It's likely to need more than an
8GB stick. (They make USB sticks now that read at
200MB/sec and cost ~$25.)

HTH,
Paul

I tried to create disks initially but when I
inserted the CD (Verbatim CD-RW 700 MB)
it rejected it and with error message and indicated
file size at 13.08 GB and tray kept opening:

http://i64.tinypic.com/2ajxkoy.jpg - Dell Data Safe

http://i63.tinypic.com/2v96i6w.jpg - CD error message

Then when I tried to go back and try it with a USB
it gave me this and I couldn't access the System
Recovery Media:

http://i66.tinypic.com/2pyqe6o.jpg - unable to locate recovery partition message

tried again

http://i66.tinypic.com/k98875.jpg - unable to access system recovery media

restarted 8500 and finally let me in and I selected USB
this time and put it on a Cruiser Glide 32 GB key I had
(not Patriot but it'll work) :

http://i64.tinypic.com/11mg4ma.jpg - success !

http://i67.tinypic.com/6toegm.jpg - contents

While waiting for it to download I searched and found a
8500 boot CD:

http://i67.tinypic.com/2wqam3s.jpg - 8500 boot CD contents

Also a Sandisk Key with Windows backups:

http://i63.tinypic.com/2ziygdu.jpg - Windows backup contents

http://i63.tinypic.com/358w41i.jpg - Windows backups bookmarks


So how do we proceed?


Robert

p.s. I don't know if it matters but this was
done with a yellow triangle in the system tray.

Robert

Previously, I had used Nero and I do have a set of CD's
for the 8200 but not the 8500. I searched a little more
and found this:

http://i66.tinypic.com/2cs80ma.jpg- configuration settings
still waiting to be written)

I also have SeaTools and a Kapersky Rescue Disc 10

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
I tried to create disks initially but when I
inserted the CD (Verbatim CD-RW 700 MB)
it rejected it and with error message and indicated
file size at 13.08 GB and tray kept opening:

http://i64.tinypic.com/2ajxkoy.jpg - Dell Data Safe

http://i63.tinypic.com/2v96i6w.jpg - CD error message

The amount of data involved, should take approximately
3 DVDs or 18 CDs. In addition to needing a certain
amount of media, apparently this application is cranky
enough to insist on DVD-R instead of the reusable DVD-RW.
Normally, programs that prepare emergency media, will
only make *one* set of media, which is why they insist
on what they consider the most reliable type.

I had my first failure on a CD-RW on my Test Machine
a couple days ago, and I was using a Microsoft burn
dialog at the time. I never have trouble when using
Imgburn with that drive. So if you have less than
stellar results, it might be that the Datasafe uses
the Microsoft built-in MAPI2 or something.

Your choice of the Cruser Flash eliminates needing
arcane info about optical media and burn tags.


Then when I tried to go back and try it with a USB
it gave me this and I couldn't access the System
Recovery Media:

http://i66.tinypic.com/2pyqe6o.jpg - unable to locate recovery partition message

tried again

http://i66.tinypic.com/k98875.jpg - unable to access system recovery media

restarted 8500 and finally let me in and I selected USB
this time and put it on a Cruiser Glide 32 GB key I had
(not Patriot but it'll work) :

http://i64.tinypic.com/11mg4ma.jpg - success !

http://i67.tinypic.com/6toegm.jpg - contents

It almost looks like that stick wasn't clean
before you started!



While waiting for it to download I searched and found a
8500 boot CD:

http://i67.tinypic.com/2wqam3s.jpg - 8500 boot CD contents

That one is for cases where you might want to use
a Command Prompt wihdow, while the main OS is broken.
I sometimes do "bcdedit" and "diskpart" from there.


Also a Sandisk Key with Windows backups:

http://i63.tinypic.com/2ziygdu.jpg - Windows backup contents

http://i63.tinypic.com/358w41i.jpg - Windows backups bookmarks


So how do we proceed?


Robert

If the Cruser 32GB had files on it ahead of time,
I can't predict what's going to happen now. The
Dell Datasafe should have loaded boot code into
the MBR of the flash stick (i.e. made it bootable),
so I'm hoping the Kaspersky files that were previously
on the stick do not interfere. It even says on the
Datasafe screen in one of your pictures, to not
put other files on the key.

The other thing is, since (typically) the tool that
makes backup media, only makes one copy, I don't know
if you'll get a chance for a "do-over".

Did I mention that the software design of this
stuff is just plain stupid. The computer requires
ninja timing to work it. The software only
gives you one try (then uses an unreliable method
to burn media). It's a recipe for disaster.

Your choices at this point:

1) Install from the Win7 DVD. The Win7 file you downloaded
for Pro, is too big for a CD, and you need DVD media
for that.

2) Work on your ninja-like timing in the BIOS screen.
Use the popup boot key, select the internal hard drive,
press F8 right after the boot starts, use the "Repair" item
at the top. Look for a Dell item in the menu provided by Repair.

3) Even with the Cruser key, you're going to need some
ninja powers. You still need the popup boot menu, to
select the Cruser as a boot item. Once the Cruser 32GB
is booted, there should be an interface that offers to
rewrite the 13GB partition and overwrite C: . And that
will put a fresh factory OS on C: , activated, has drivers,
but doesn't have Firefox.

I would be using (3) and the Cruser. As long as you know
how to get the popup boot menu, you'll be fine. On my
computers here, the key for that varies. On an Asus,
it is F8. On an Asrock, it is F2. On my laptop, it is F2.
There are a couple other keys used by other brands.
Normally, if the splash screen in the BIOS is disabled,
so the boot text shows through, there's usually some text
that documents the key to enter the BIOS, and the
key to do the popup boot menu. Since you don't have
a proper manual, I've given up on suggesting reading
the manual, because the idiots at Dell "saved paper".

Note - if, somehow, the existing files on the Cruser
screw it up somehow, you have the option of booting
the computer with your Macrium disc, and restoring
from the MRIMG on your external disk. So "if your
parachute fails, use Macrium".

Your external disk should *not* be connected during
the Cruser/factory experiment. it's OK to connect
the external, if using the Macrium CD for some reason.
While there is no reason to suspect any of your
work will overwrite the external 2TB, "always expect
the unexpected". I've had disks I didn't want erased,
get erased before. My track record is far from perfect.
Which is why I can pass these fine warnings along...
It's first-hand experience, not something I read.

A harder problem, is how to back up the Cruser.
As you will eventually be using the Cruser for
something else (it's only reasonable). While the
"dd.exe" program can do this, that's a command
line program. And I don't know of anything else
that is more friendly. Most backup programs like
Macrium, simply refuse to consider the Cruser
as something that needs a backup. And "just copying
the files" is not good enough. You need the hidden
content as well (PBR, MBR, Track 0, EFI, whatever).
"dd.exe" will do it, but it's not user friendly.
And due to a bug in the code, you have to add an
additional parameter to the command line, to keep
things under control. But that's a job for later.

HTH,
Paul