No USB3 after Cloning

I think I'll try this one again since I haven't been available to pursue
the first post regarding this issue.

For some unknown reason when I backup one of my systems whether it be
by cloning or imaging the result is a copy that no longer has active USB
ports and shows this in device manager.

I've tried several applications and most recently I bought a hardware
cloning device that works with no computer connected.

Actually this little black box really works fine otherwise and I had
no idea they even existed.

http://www.amazon.com/SuperSpeed-Dup.../dp/B00MHNSQH2

I am able to enter BIOS where everything looks normal. I can set the
USB stick to boot first and I am able to enter Linux Mint but when
Windows appears I get the same results. Both that stick and my external
USB3 drives show with an indication something is wrong. I allow a search
for a driver and I get a report the ones being used are correct and
should work.

I also tried to clone this drive by removing it and attaching it to
another system along with a new destination SSD and every time the
process is the same and I am hopeful but the results is always that USB
malfunction. My mouse and KB have not been effected and I've tried
switching ports but nothing seems to help. I'm not sure if it's this
Samsung brand or even this particular SSD that's the cause but I've
tried to make a copy using another Samsung or Crucial and still no good
ending.

I've searched and posted to other forums in hopes someone else has run
across this but so far no luck. So, here I am where all the real brain s
are in hopes someone has a solution as I am out of things to do short of
reinstalling the OS using something other than a Samsung.

I say USB3 as I don't have anything USB2 ports. The stick is USB2 and
the drives are USB3. Both inaccessible from withing Windows AND Linux
which I find very strange.

In message , Al Drake
writes:
I think I'll try this one again since I haven't been available to
pursue the first post regarding this issue.

I don't think I can help you myself, but thought I'd ask for
clarification of various points that might help others help you (and
possibly even answering them might help you).

For some unknown reason when I backup one of my systems whether it be
by cloning or imaging the result is a copy that no longer has active
USB ports and shows this in device manager.

When you say "the result", you mean that when you restore the OS from
your clone or image, to a hard disc [or SSD] (either the one you made
the image/clone from or a different one), and make that (or leave that
as) the boot device in the same system, the USB ports don't work? Or are
you putting the drive with a restored image into a different system?

When you say no longer active USB ports, do you mean nothing works -
such as plugging in a USB memory stick, you get no dingdong sound? (How
about purely power - can you charge anything from the ports?)

I've tried several applications and most recently I bought a hardware
cloning device that works with no computer connected.

Actually this little black box really works fine otherwise and I had
no idea they even existed.

http://www.amazon.com/SuperSpeed-Dup...n-Support/dp/B
00MHNSQH2

(It's a disc dock with two slots, that can also be told to copy from one
disc to the other without any computer connected.)

I am able to enter BIOS where everything looks normal. I can set the
USB stick to boot first and I am able to enter Linux Mint but when

So the _hardware_ (ports) would appear to be OK, ...

Windows appears I get the same results. Both that stick and my external

.... it's just a Windows problem.

USB3 drives show with an indication something is wrong. I allow a
search for a driver and I get a report the ones being used are correct
and should work.

When you say they "show", what do you mean? Just dingdong and some
indication that something has been connected, or they appear in Windows
Explorer, or ...

I also tried to clone this drive by removing it and attaching it to
another system along with a new destination SSD and every time the

And doing what? Just telling the "other system" to copy all the files
from one disc to the other, or running some cloning software, or what?

process is the same and I am hopeful but the results is always that USB
malfunction. My mouse and KB have not been effected and I've tried

[That's "affected" (-:] Are your mouse and keyboard USB or PS2? If USB,
can you unplug them and plug them into another USB socket and they're
still OK?

switching ports but nothing seems to help. I'm not sure if it's this
Samsung brand or even this particular SSD that's the cause but I've
tried to make a copy using another Samsung or Crucial and still no good
ending.

I've searched and posted to other forums in hopes someone else has run
across this but so far no luck. So, here I am where all the real brain

Well, as I said, I'm not one of the real brains, but if you answer my
questions, it might speed things up if the real brains do join the
thread.

s are in hopes someone has a solution as I am out of things to do short
of reinstalling the OS using something other than a Samsung.

But you say above that you've tried with a Crucial and still not getting
a "good ending"?!?

I say USB3 as I don't have anything USB2 ports. The stick is USB2 and
the drives are USB3. Both inaccessible from withing Windows AND Linux
which I find very strange.

When you said above "I can set the USB stick to boot first and I am able
to enter Linux Mint", I assumed (a) that you mean you were able to boot
mint _from the USB stick_ and that (b) [since you followed up with "but
when Windows appears I get the same results"] USB _was_ working under
Linux. Now you seem to be saying it isn't working, even under Linux.

Hope I've helped a _bit_, anyway ...
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Do do drugs kids, they addle you're brian. - "Syd Rumpo", UMRA, 2014-1-25

On 6/27/2015 5:36 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Al Drake
writes:
I think I'll try this one again since I haven't been available to
pursue the first post regarding this issue.

I don't think I can help you myself, but thought I'd ask for
clarification of various points that might help others help you (and
possibly even answering them might help you).

For some unknown reason when I backup one of my systems whether it be
by cloning or imaging the result is a copy that no longer has active
USB ports and shows this in device manager.

When you say "the result", you mean that when you restore the OS from
your clone or image, to a hard disc [or SSD] (either the one you made
the image/clone from or a different one), and make that (or leave that
as) the boot device in the same system, the USB ports don't work? Or are
you putting the drive with a restored image into a different system?

When you say no longer active USB ports, do you mean nothing works -
such as plugging in a USB memory stick, you get no dingdong sound? (How
about purely power - can you charge anything from the ports?)

I've tried several applications and most recently I bought a hardware
cloning device that works with no computer connected.

Actually this little black box really works fine otherwise and I had
no idea they even existed.

http://www.amazon.com/SuperSpeed-Dup...n-Support/dp/B
00MHNSQH2

(It's a disc dock with two slots, that can also be told to copy from one
disc to the other without any computer connected.)

I am able to enter BIOS where everything looks normal. I can set the
USB stick to boot first and I am able to enter Linux Mint but when

So the _hardware_ (ports) would appear to be OK, ...

Windows appears I get the same results. Both that stick and my external

... it's just a Windows problem.

USB3 drives show with an indication something is wrong. I allow a
search for a driver and I get a report the ones being used are correct
and should work.

When you say they "show", what do you mean? Just dingdong and some
indication that something has been connected, or they appear in Windows
Explorer, or ...

I also tried to clone this drive by removing it and attaching it to
another system along with a new destination SSD and every time the

And doing what? Just telling the "other system" to copy all the files
from one disc to the other, or running some cloning software, or what?

process is the same and I am hopeful but the results is always that
USB malfunction. My mouse and KB have not been effected and I've tried

[That's "affected" (-:] Are your mouse and keyboard USB or PS2? If USB,
can you unplug them and plug them into another USB socket and they're
still OK?

switching ports but nothing seems to help. I'm not sure if it's this
Samsung brand or even this particular SSD that's the cause but I've
tried to make a copy using another Samsung or Crucial and still no
good ending.

I've searched and posted to other forums in hopes someone else has run
across this but so far no luck. So, here I am where all the real brain

Well, as I said, I'm not one of the real brains, but if you answer my
questions, it might speed things up if the real brains do join the thread.

s are in hopes someone has a solution as I am out of things to do
short of reinstalling the OS using something other than a Samsung.

But you say above that you've tried with a Crucial and still not getting
a "good ending"?!?

I say USB3 as I don't have anything USB2 ports. The stick is USB2 and
the drives are USB3. Both inaccessible from withing Windows AND Linux
which I find very strange.

When you said above "I can set the USB stick to boot first and I am able
to enter Linux Mint", I assumed (a) that you mean you were able to boot
mint _from the USB stick_ and that (b) [since you followed up with "but
when Windows appears I get the same results"] USB _was_ working under
Linux. Now you seem to be saying it isn't working, even under Linux.

Hope I've helped a _bit_, anyway ...

Thanks for the reply John.

I'm sorry if I was unclear. I've been up far to long trying to find a
cure for this condition. The only "good ending" would be to have a
complete and usable copy which means the USB ports would be usable when
trying to read either a external drive or USB stick which at this time
is the only thing wrong.

I have been trying to make a copy of the system drive to a new SSD and
keep the original until I'm sure I have no problems.

The mouse and keyboard still work. They are USB devices.

The external drives are not viewable in Windows or Linux and no sound
when I plug them in after cloning.

The External hardware dock/cloning device works only when I have the
original system SSD in place.

At this point I am considering a complete reinstall of Windows 7 to a
Crucial SSD AND try cloning it then see if I can figure out what
happened when I installed this Samsung. I want to wait at least until
Monday when my new Samsung M.2 SSD arrives. I also have a Samsung 850
installed in a laptop that I'll try cloning so see if that one gives me
the same problems.

Al Drake wrote:
On 6/27/2015 5:36 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Al Drake
writes:
I think I'll try this one again since I haven't been available to
pursue the first post regarding this issue.

I don't think I can help you myself, but thought I'd ask for
clarification of various points that might help others help you (and
possibly even answering them might help you).

For some unknown reason when I backup one of my systems whether it be
by cloning or imaging the result is a copy that no longer has active
USB ports and shows this in device manager.

When you say "the result", you mean that when you restore the OS from
your clone or image, to a hard disc [or SSD] (either the one you made
the image/clone from or a different one), and make that (or leave that
as) the boot device in the same system, the USB ports don't work? Or are
you putting the drive with a restored image into a different system?

When you say no longer active USB ports, do you mean nothing works -
such as plugging in a USB memory stick, you get no dingdong sound? (How
about purely power - can you charge anything from the ports?)

I've tried several applications and most recently I bought a hardware
cloning device that works with no computer connected.

Actually this little black box really works fine otherwise and I had
no idea they even existed.

http://www.amazon.com/SuperSpeed-Dup...n-Support/dp/B
00MHNSQH2

(It's a disc dock with two slots, that can also be told to copy from one
disc to the other without any computer connected.)

I am able to enter BIOS where everything looks normal. I can set the
USB stick to boot first and I am able to enter Linux Mint but when

So the _hardware_ (ports) would appear to be OK, ...

Windows appears I get the same results. Both that stick and my external

... it's just a Windows problem.

USB3 drives show with an indication something is wrong. I allow a
search for a driver and I get a report the ones being used are correct
and should work.

When you say they "show", what do you mean? Just dingdong and some
indication that something has been connected, or they appear in Windows
Explorer, or ...

I also tried to clone this drive by removing it and attaching it to
another system along with a new destination SSD and every time the

And doing what? Just telling the "other system" to copy all the files
from one disc to the other, or running some cloning software, or what?

process is the same and I am hopeful but the results is always that
USB malfunction. My mouse and KB have not been effected and I've tried

[That's "affected" (-:] Are your mouse and keyboard USB or PS2? If USB,
can you unplug them and plug them into another USB socket and they're
still OK?

switching ports but nothing seems to help. I'm not sure if it's this
Samsung brand or even this particular SSD that's the cause but I've
tried to make a copy using another Samsung or Crucial and still no
good ending.

I've searched and posted to other forums in hopes someone else has run
across this but so far no luck. So, here I am where all the real brain

Well, as I said, I'm not one of the real brains, but if you answer my
questions, it might speed things up if the real brains do join the
thread.

s are in hopes someone has a solution as I am out of things to do
short of reinstalling the OS using something other than a Samsung.

But you say above that you've tried with a Crucial and still not getting
a "good ending"?!?

I say USB3 as I don't have anything USB2 ports. The stick is USB2 and
the drives are USB3. Both inaccessible from withing Windows AND Linux
which I find very strange.

When you said above "I can set the USB stick to boot first and I am able
to enter Linux Mint", I assumed (a) that you mean you were able to boot
mint _from the USB stick_ and that (b) [since you followed up with "but
when Windows appears I get the same results"] USB _was_ working under
Linux. Now you seem to be saying it isn't working, even under Linux.

Hope I've helped a _bit_, anyway ...

Thanks for the reply John.

I'm sorry if I was unclear. I've been up far to long trying to find a
cure for this condition. The only "good ending" would be to have a
complete and usable copy which means the USB ports would be usable when
trying to read either a external drive or USB stick which at this time
is the only thing wrong.

I have been trying to make a copy of the system drive to a new SSD and
keep the original until I'm sure I have no problems.

The mouse and keyboard still work. They are USB devices.

The external drives are not viewable in Windows or Linux and no sound
when I plug them in after cloning.

The External hardware dock/cloning device works only when I have the
original system SSD in place.

At this point I am considering a complete reinstall of Windows 7 to a
Crucial SSD AND try cloning it then see if I can figure out what
happened when I installed this Samsung. I want to wait at least until
Monday when my new Samsung M.2 SSD arrives. I also have a Samsung 850
installed in a laptop that I'll try cloning so see if that one gives me
the same problems.



Have you power cycled the PC between attempts ?

When you can't have USB3 in Windows or Linux, try shutdown,
turn off at the back of the computer, then try booting again.
In case something done to the add-on chip while the clone was
running, is affecting hardware state at next power up.

Other than that, the only thing that comes to mind, is
the difference between how clones are made:

1) Intelligent copy. 20GB C: on 256GB disk, involves only
20GB of copy operations. The rest of the clone is not
"defined". This is the kind of clone Macrium would make, if
you left the default Intelligent Copy setting.

2) Mechanical copy cloning method. A 256GB disk will involve
256GB of copying. The destination drive must be exactly the
same size, or the drive must be bigger, if you expect good
copy integrity.

OK, so what is one slight benefit of (1). Well, if malware hides
information outside the file system, it doesn't get copied.

Whereas, if you have a rootkit present, and you do (2), the
rootkit is copied with perfect fidelity.

I had a small problem with my current WinXP C:. Since the
last (1) I did, the problem (DEP fault in File Explorer) has
magically disappeared. I did do a malware scan when the problem
was present, but the scan didn't find anything. But the intelligent
copy seems to have made a difference in system behavior. I have
no more DEP fault in the middle of a session. Which required me to
restart Explorer (by killing all the copies of Dr. Watson running
at the time).

I don't consider my DEP problem to be "cured". Merely, I will
need to observe for some months, to see if it is really gone.

Paul

On 6/27/2015 7:56 AM, Paul wrote:
Al Drake wrote:
On 6/27/2015 5:36 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Al Drake
writes:
I think I'll try this one again since I haven't been available to
pursue the first post regarding this issue.

I don't think I can help you myself, but thought I'd ask for
clarification of various points that might help others help you (and
possibly even answering them might help you).

For some unknown reason when I backup one of my systems whether it be
by cloning or imaging the result is a copy that no longer has active
USB ports and shows this in device manager.

When you say "the result", you mean that when you restore the OS from
your clone or image, to a hard disc [or SSD] (either the one you made
the image/clone from or a different one), and make that (or leave that
as) the boot device in the same system, the USB ports don't work? Or are
you putting the drive with a restored image into a different system?

When you say no longer active USB ports, do you mean nothing works -
such as plugging in a USB memory stick, you get no dingdong sound? (How
about purely power - can you charge anything from the ports?)

I've tried several applications and most recently I bought a hardware
cloning device that works with no computer connected.

Actually this little black box really works fine otherwise and I had
no idea they even existed.

http://www.amazon.com/SuperSpeed-Dup...n-Support/dp/B

00MHNSQH2

(It's a disc dock with two slots, that can also be told to copy from one
disc to the other without any computer connected.)

I am able to enter BIOS where everything looks normal. I can set the
USB stick to boot first and I am able to enter Linux Mint but when

So the _hardware_ (ports) would appear to be OK, ...

Windows appears I get the same results. Both that stick and my external

... it's just a Windows problem.

USB3 drives show with an indication something is wrong. I allow a
search for a driver and I get a report the ones being used are correct
and should work.

When you say they "show", what do you mean? Just dingdong and some
indication that something has been connected, or they appear in Windows
Explorer, or ...

I also tried to clone this drive by removing it and attaching it to
another system along with a new destination SSD and every time the

And doing what? Just telling the "other system" to copy all the files
from one disc to the other, or running some cloning software, or what?

process is the same and I am hopeful but the results is always that
USB malfunction. My mouse and KB have not been effected and I've tried

[That's "affected" (-:] Are your mouse and keyboard USB or PS2? If USB,
can you unplug them and plug them into another USB socket and they're
still OK?

switching ports but nothing seems to help. I'm not sure if it's this
Samsung brand or even this particular SSD that's the cause but I've
tried to make a copy using another Samsung or Crucial and still no
good ending.

I've searched and posted to other forums in hopes someone else has run
across this but so far no luck. So, here I am where all the real brain

Well, as I said, I'm not one of the real brains, but if you answer my
questions, it might speed things up if the real brains do join the
thread.

s are in hopes someone has a solution as I am out of things to do
short of reinstalling the OS using something other than a Samsung.

But you say above that you've tried with a Crucial and still not getting
a "good ending"?!?

I say USB3 as I don't have anything USB2 ports. The stick is USB2 and
the drives are USB3. Both inaccessible from withing Windows AND Linux
which I find very strange.

When you said above "I can set the USB stick to boot first and I am able
to enter Linux Mint", I assumed (a) that you mean you were able to boot
mint _from the USB stick_ and that (b) [since you followed up with "but
when Windows appears I get the same results"] USB _was_ working under
Linux. Now you seem to be saying it isn't working, even under Linux.

Hope I've helped a _bit_, anyway ...

Thanks for the reply John.

I'm sorry if I was unclear. I've been up far to long trying to find a
cure for this condition. The only "good ending" would be to have a
complete and usable copy which means the USB ports would be usable
when trying to read either a external drive or USB stick which at this
time is the only thing wrong.

I have been trying to make a copy of the system drive to a new SSD
and keep the original until I'm sure I have no problems.

The mouse and keyboard still work. They are USB devices.

The external drives are not viewable in Windows or Linux and no sound
when I plug them in after cloning.

The External hardware dock/cloning device works only when I have the
original system SSD in place.

At this point I am considering a complete reinstall of Windows 7 to a
Crucial SSD AND try cloning it then see if I can figure out what
happened when I installed this Samsung. I want to wait at least until
Monday when my new Samsung M.2 SSD arrives. I also have a Samsung 850
installed in a laptop that I'll try cloning so see if that one gives
me the same problems.



Have you power cycled the PC between attempts ?

When you can't have USB3 in Windows or Linux, try shutdown,
turn off at the back of the computer, then try booting again.
In case something done to the add-on chip while the clone was
running, is affecting hardware state at next power up.

Other than that, the only thing that comes to mind, is
the difference between how clones are made:

1) Intelligent copy. 20GB C: on 256GB disk, involves only
20GB of copy operations. The rest of the clone is not
"defined". This is the kind of clone Macrium would make, if
you left the default Intelligent Copy setting.

2) Mechanical copy cloning method. A 256GB disk will involve
256GB of copying. The destination drive must be exactly the
same size, or the drive must be bigger, if you expect good
copy integrity.

OK, so what is one slight benefit of (1). Well, if malware hides
information outside the file system, it doesn't get copied.

Whereas, if you have a rootkit present, and you do (2), the
rootkit is copied with perfect fidelity.

I had a small problem with my current WinXP C:. Since the
last (1) I did, the problem (DEP fault in File Explorer) has
magically disappeared. I did do a malware scan when the problem
was present, but the scan didn't find anything. But the intelligent
copy seems to have made a difference in system behavior. I have
no more DEP fault in the middle of a session. Which required me to
restart Explorer (by killing all the copies of Dr. Watson running
at the time).

I don't consider my DEP problem to be "cured". Merely, I will
need to observe for some months, to see if it is really gone.

Paul

Hi Paul.

Yes, I did make sure I powered down and turn off the PSU switch. I
have tried countless cloning operations with the last one being an exact
copy using the Aukey DS-B3 using no software and no PC and I was
surprised to find that didn't work either. If by late in the weekend I
haven't been able to get this to work I'm thinking of a fresh install or
Win7, as a last resort.

(BTW, I was going to start another thread to let you know the BSOD on my
AMD system has been successfully addressed by lowering the RAM setting.)

Thanks to you for all your help. It took me sometime to go over what
you offered and it worked.

In message , Paul
writes:
Al Drake wrote:
On 6/27/2015 5:36 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
[snipped what I wrote as you've answered below my post rather than
interleaving. Not that that's necessarily bad, but I find it easier if
each point and its responses stay together. However ...]
Hope I've helped a _bit_, anyway ...
Thanks for the reply John.
I'm sorry if I was unclear. I've been up far to long trying to find
a cure for this condition. The only "good ending" would be to have a
complete and usable copy which means the USB ports would be usable
when trying to read either a external drive or USB stick which at
this time is the only thing wrong.

I was wondering where the "copy" was to be used, but you've clarified
that ...

I have been trying to make a copy of the system drive to a new SSD
and keep the original until I'm sure I have no problems.

.... you intend to use the new drive in the original system.

The mouse and keyboard still work. They are USB devices.

Right. So _some_ USB devices work in the system with the cloned drive.
(Anything else? A card reader is probably too similar to a stick, but
how about a wifi adapter? Or, anything else [other than novelties like
lights that only use power]?)

The external drives are not viewable in Windows or Linux and no

"Or Linux" is interesting, as - if I understood you right - you booted
Linux from a USB stick. Or did I read that wrong, and you have both on
the hard (and now SS) drive?

sound when I plug them in after cloning.

Right, so not even anything being detected, by the sound of it. Although
I think you did say a "can I find a driver" popup appeared, which
suggests something _was_ detected - or?

The External hardware dock/cloning device works only when I have
the original system SSD in place.

The original HD - or was the original an SSD too?

At this point I am considering a complete reinstall of Windows 7 to
a Crucial SSD AND try cloning it then see if I can figure out what
happened when I installed this Samsung. I want to wait at least until
Monday when my new Samsung M.2 SSD arrives. I also have a Samsung 850
installed in a laptop that I'll try cloning so see if that one gives
me the same problems.

Might be worth trying to a(nother?) spinning disc, if you have one, to
see if that makes any difference. Not that I can see why it should (but
then I have no experience of SSDs).

Have you power cycled the PC between attempts ?

(I _hope_ he has: if he's switching drives ... though I suppose lots of
people might just "switch off" at the front.)

When you can't have USB3 in Windows or Linux, try shutdown,
turn off at the back of the computer, then try booting again.
In case something done to the add-on chip while the clone was
running, is affecting hardware state at next power up.

I think he was saying it wasn't working at all, not just wasn't working
as USB3 - presumably would still show as USB2 peripherals. Though his
keyboard and mouse _do_ still work (though maybe are only USB1 anyway).

Other than that, the only thing that comes to mind, is
the difference between how clones are made:

(Yes, what cloning software are you using? May not be relevant, but
could be useful.)

1) Intelligent copy. 20GB C: on 256GB disk, involves only
20GB of copy operations. The rest of the clone is not
"defined". This is the kind of clone Macrium would make, if
you left the default Intelligent Copy setting.

2) Mechanical copy cloning method. A 256GB disk will involve
256GB of copying. The destination drive must be exactly the
same size, or the drive must be bigger, if you expect good
copy integrity.

OK, so what is one slight benefit of (1). Well, if malware hides
information outside the file system, it doesn't get copied.

(It also takes significantly less time, at least for spinning drives!)

Whereas, if you have a rootkit present, and you do (2), the
rootkit is copied with perfect fidelity.

(So what is the benefit of (2)?)

I had a small problem with my current WinXP C:. Since the
last (1) I did, the problem (DEP fault in File Explorer) has
magically disappeared. I did do a malware scan when the problem
was present, but the scan didn't find anything. But the intelligent
copy seems to have made a difference in system behavior. I have
no more DEP fault in the middle of a session. Which required me to
restart Explorer (by killing all the copies of Dr. Watson running
at the time).

Glad to hear it! My XP problem - one with the keyboard, basically if I
touch the Ctrl key, especially the left one, Odd Things Happen
(including if I plug in an external keyboard or even use the on-screen
one, so it isn't a hardware problem but some very obscure corruption
inside Windows) did _not_ go away when I had to do my
image-and-backup-to-a-new-HD last autumn (and I'm pretty sure I used the
only-image-used-files setting in Macrium). [So I don't use the left Ctrl
key (and touch the other one only with care) ...]

I don't consider my DEP problem to be "cured". Merely, I will
need to observe for some months, to see if it is really gone.

Paul
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

There are a lot of things that children should be shielded from, but
"bad language" isn't one of them.

"Honey, we shouldn't say that when other people are around because some
grownups get upset about it. No, I don't know why, they just do."
- "The Real Bev", in mozilla.general 2015-6-7

On 6/27/2015 8:33 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul writes:
Al Drake wrote:
On 6/27/2015 5:36 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
[snipped what I wrote as you've answered below my post rather than
interleaving. Not that that's necessarily bad, but I find it easier if
each point and its responses stay together. However ...]
Hope I've helped a _bit_, anyway ...
Thanks for the reply John.
I'm sorry if I was unclear. I've been up far to long trying to find
a cure for this condition. The only "good ending" would be to have a
complete and usable copy which means the USB ports would be usable
when trying to read either a external drive or USB stick which at
this time is the only thing wrong.

I was wondering where the "copy" was to be used, but you've clarified
that ...

I have been trying to make a copy of the system drive to a new SSD
and keep the original until I'm sure I have no problems.

... you intend to use the new drive in the original system.

The mouse and keyboard still work. They are USB devices.

Right. So _some_ USB devices work in the system with the cloned drive.
(Anything else? A card reader is probably too similar to a stick, but
how about a wifi adapter? Or, anything else [other than novelties like
lights that only use power]?)

I have only tried the USB stick and a couple of different USB3
enclosures with HDDs and SSDs installed.


The external drives are not viewable in Windows or Linux and no

"Or Linux" is interesting, as - if I understood you right - you booted
Linux from a USB stick. Or did I read that wrong, and you have both on
the hard (and now SS) drive?

As I mentioned I have no problem seeing the devices in BIOS and was
able to set the stick to boot first and used that to use Linux Live.

sound when I plug them in after cloning.

Right, so not even anything being detected, by the sound of it. Although
I think you did say a "can I find a driver" popup appeared, which
suggests something _was_ detected - or?

I got no indication that I had problems with the USB devices and
everything looked fine in device manager until I plugged one in. When I
plugged in the Stick it appeared with error icon. I then plugged in a
USB3 drive and the same thing happened. Nothing until the drive gets
connected.

The External hardware dock/cloning device works only when I have
the original system SSD in place.

The original HD - or was the original an SSD too?

I use strictly SSDs in every system and only have external HDDs in
USB3 cases. I did try to clone to one HDD using the Aukey and got the
same bad copy.

At this point I am considering a complete reinstall of Windows 7 to
a Crucial SSD AND try cloning it then see if I can figure out what
happened when I installed this Samsung. I want to wait at least until
Monday when my new Samsung M.2 SSD arrives. I also have a Samsung 850
installed in a laptop that I'll try cloning so see if that one gives
me the same problems.

Might be worth trying to a(nother?) spinning disc, if you have one, to
see if that makes any difference. Not that I can see why it should (but
then I have no experience of SSDs).

Have you power cycled the PC between attempts ?

(I _hope_ he has: if he's switching drives ... though I suppose lots of
people might just "switch off" at the front.)

I still have 2 SSDs cloned that show unusable USB and have tried them
again many times hoping they somehow might work but they don't.

When you can't have USB3 in Windows or Linux, try shutdown,
turn off at the back of the computer, then try booting again.
In case something done to the add-on chip while the clone was
running, is affecting hardware state at next power up.

I think he was saying it wasn't working at all, not just wasn't working
as USB3 - presumably would still show as USB2 peripherals. Though his
keyboard and mouse _do_ still work (though maybe are only USB1 anyway).

I don't think I have ANY USB1 anything left over from back in the day.

Other than that, the only thing that comes to mind, is
the difference between how clones are made:

(Yes, what cloning software are you using? May not be relevant, but
could be useful.)

I can make a list of software I've used. I have many that have never
failed me in the past. The one I use the most is EZ-Gig IV which
requires either one of their enclosures or a cable.

I also tried creating an image using Macrium Reflect 6 but that gave
the same faulty copy. I've always made sure they drives were the same size.

1) Intelligent copy. 20GB C: on 256GB disk, involves only
20GB of copy operations. The rest of the clone is not
"defined". This is the kind of clone Macrium would make, if
you left the default Intelligent Copy setting.

2) Mechanical copy cloning method. A 256GB disk will involve
256GB of copying. The destination drive must be exactly the
same size, or the drive must be bigger, if you expect good
copy integrity.

OK, so what is one slight benefit of (1). Well, if malware hides
information outside the file system, it doesn't get copied.

(It also takes significantly less time, at least for spinning drives!)

Whereas, if you have a rootkit present, and you do (2), the
rootkit is copied with perfect fidelity.

(So what is the benefit of (2)?)

I had a small problem with my current WinXP C:. Since the
last (1) I did, the problem (DEP fault in File Explorer) has
magically disappeared. I did do a malware scan when the problem
was present, but the scan didn't find anything. But the intelligent
copy seems to have made a difference in system behavior. I have
no more DEP fault in the middle of a session. Which required me to
restart Explorer (by killing all the copies of Dr. Watson running
at the time).

Glad to hear it! My XP problem - one with the keyboard, basically if I
touch the Ctrl key, especially the left one, Odd Things Happen
(including if I plug in an external keyboard or even use the on-screen
one, so it isn't a hardware problem but some very obscure corruption
inside Windows) did _not_ go away when I had to do my
image-and-backup-to-a-new-HD last autumn (and I'm pretty sure I used the
only-image-used-files setting in Macrium). [So I don't use the left Ctrl
key (and touch the other one only with care) ...]

I don't consider my DEP problem to be "cured". Merely, I will
need to observe for some months, to see if it is really gone.

Paul

In message , Al Drake
writes:
On 6/27/2015 8:33 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul writes:
Al Drake wrote:
[]
The mouse and keyboard still work. They are USB devices.
[]
The external drives are not viewable in Windows or Linux and no

"Or Linux" is interesting, as - if I understood you right - you booted
Linux from a USB stick. Or did I read that wrong, and you have both on
the hard (and now SS) drive?

As I mentioned I have no problem seeing the devices in BIOS and was
able to set the stick to boot first and used that to use Linux Live.

So the system booted Linux from the stick, but then couldn't see it from
within Linux?
[]
I still have 2 SSDs cloned that show unusable USB and have tried them
again many times hoping they somehow might work but they don't.

When you can't have USB3 in Windows or Linux, try shutdown,
turn off at the back of the computer, then try booting again.
In case something done to the add-on chip while the clone was
running, is affecting hardware state at next power up.

I think he was saying it wasn't working at all, not just wasn't working
as USB3 - presumably would still show as USB2 peripherals. Though his
keyboard and mouse _do_ still work (though maybe are only USB1 anyway).

I don't think I have ANY USB1 anything left over from back in the day.

I wasn't "accusing" you of having ancient hardware - I just wasn't sure
if mice and keyboards (even new ones on sale now) have any need for even
USB2, so your M&K may be 1.1 not because they are old but because they
couldn't be anything else. But I don't know that. (If they _are_ USB1,
that _may_ shed some light on the matter - but not to me.)
[]
I can make a list of software I've used. I have many that have never
failed me in the past. The one I use the most is EZ-Gig IV which
requires either one of their enclosures or a cable.

I also tried creating an image using Macrium Reflect 6 but that gave
the same faulty copy. I've always made sure they drives were the same
size.

(My experience - MR5 - was between two [spinning] discs that weren't the
same size [XP, 160G to 250G]. All went well [well, one - keyboard - bug
_survived_ when I wish it hadn't!].)
[]
I fear I'm probably at the end of my limited knowledge - I leave you in
the expert hands of Paul (-:. Hope I helped clarify a few things though.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

God must love the common man; He made so many of them.

On 6/27/2015 9:08 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Al Drake
writes:
On 6/27/2015 8:33 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
Al Drake wrote:
[]
The mouse and keyboard still work. They are USB devices.
[]
The external drives are not viewable in Windows or Linux and no

"Or Linux" is interesting, as - if I understood you right - you booted
Linux from a USB stick. Or did I read that wrong, and you have both on
the hard (and now SS) drive?

As I mentioned I have no problem seeing the devices in BIOS and was
able to set the stick to boot first and used that to use Linux Live.

So the system booted Linux from the stick, but then couldn't see it from
within Linux?

Yes, the same as Windows. Bios sees all but the OS sees less.

[]
I still have 2 SSDs cloned that show unusable USB and have tried them
again many times hoping they somehow might work but they don't.

When you can't have USB3 in Windows or Linux, try shutdown,
turn off at the back of the computer, then try booting again.
In case something done to the add-on chip while the clone was
running, is affecting hardware state at next power up.

I think he was saying it wasn't working at all, not just wasn't working
as USB3 - presumably would still show as USB2 peripherals. Though his
keyboard and mouse _do_ still work (though maybe are only USB1 anyway).

I don't think I have ANY USB1 anything left over from back in the day.

I wasn't "accusing" you of having ancient hardware - I just wasn't sure
if mice and keyboards (even new ones on sale now) have any need for even
USB2, so your M&K may be 1.1 not because they are old but because they
couldn't be anything else. But I don't know that. (If they _are_ USB1,
that _may_ shed some light on the matter - but not to me.)

You can accuse me of anything. I'm probably guilty of most.
Interesting that you mention the mouse and keyboard of being USB1. I
never gave that a thought. Actually I still have many older style
devices stashed away somewhere like hubs of unknown versions.

[]
I can make a list of software I've used. I have many that have never
failed me in the past. The one I use the most is EZ-Gig IV which
requires either one of their enclosures or a cable.

I also tried creating an image using Macrium Reflect 6 but that gave
the same faulty copy. I've always made sure they drives were the same
size.

(My experience - MR5 - was between two [spinning] discs that weren't the
same size [XP, 160G to 250G]. All went well [well, one - keyboard - bug
_survived_ when I wish it hadn't!].)
[]
I fear I'm probably at the end of my limited knowledge - I leave you in
the expert hands of Paul (-:. Hope I helped clarify a few things though.


I thank you for your replies and ability to help me clear some of this
chaos.

On 6/27/2015 9:08 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Al Drake
writes:
On 6/27/2015 8:33 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
Al Drake wrote:
[]
The mouse and keyboard still work. They are USB devices.
[]
The external drives are not viewable in Windows or Linux and no

"Or Linux" is interesting, as - if I understood you right - you booted
Linux from a USB stick. Or did I read that wrong, and you have both on
the hard (and now SS) drive?

As I mentioned I have no problem seeing the devices in BIOS and was
able to set the stick to boot first and used that to use Linux Live.

So the system booted Linux from the stick, but then couldn't see it from
within Linux?
[]
I still have 2 SSDs cloned that show unusable USB and have tried them
again many times hoping they somehow might work but they don't.

When you can't have USB3 in Windows or Linux, try shutdown,
turn off at the back of the computer, then try booting again.
In case something done to the add-on chip while the clone was
running, is affecting hardware state at next power up.

I think he was saying it wasn't working at all, not just wasn't working
as USB3 - presumably would still show as USB2 peripherals. Though his
keyboard and mouse _do_ still work (though maybe are only USB1 anyway).

I don't think I have ANY USB1 anything left over from back in the day.

I wasn't "accusing" you of having ancient hardware - I just wasn't sure
if mice and keyboards (even new ones on sale now) have any need for even
USB2, so your M&K may be 1.1 not because they are old but because they
couldn't be anything else. But I don't know that. (If they _are_ USB1,
that _may_ shed some light on the matter - but not to me.)
[]
I can make a list of software I've used. I have many that have never
failed me in the past. The one I use the most is EZ-Gig IV which
requires either one of their enclosures or a cable.

I also tried creating an image using Macrium Reflect 6 but that gave
the same faulty copy. I've always made sure they drives were the same
size.

(My experience - MR5 - was between two [spinning] discs that weren't the
same size [XP, 160G to 250G]. All went well [well, one - keyboard - bug
_survived_ when I wish it hadn't!].)
[]
I fear I'm probably at the end of my limited knowledge - I leave you in
the expert hands of Paul (-:. Hope I helped clarify a few things though.

On a final attempt I tried again to restore an image with Macrium
Reflect 6 to a Crucial SSD and got the same failed results. I plugged in
a second SSD inside a USB3 docking station and watched it try to install
the drive but fail. In front of me now I am viewing a window that
reports "Device driver software was not successfully installed". I made
sure I shut down the PSU before installing the cloned SSD and booting.
In BIOS I can see this drive along with a USB Stick but just not within
Windows. It's looking more and more like a fresh install onto my M.2 SSD
when it arrives Monday.

In message , Al Drake
writes:
[]
You can accuse me of anything. I'm probably guilty of most.
(-:
Interesting that you mention the mouse and keyboard of being USB1. I
never gave that a thought. Actually I still have many older style
devices stashed away somewhere like hubs of unknown versions.

ISTR that USB 1.1 could run at two speeds, the faster being 12 meg
(can't remember whether bits or bytes). That's more than required for a
keyboard or mouse, so I can't see that they _needed_ to be USB2; whether
they _were_ (/are), I don't know. (USB 1.1's faster speed was _just
about_ fast enough for SD video in theory, but in practice any video
capture device in the USB1.1 era tended to capture at half resolution
and/or half field/frame rate - that's when FireWire had its brief
heyday.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to recognize a mistake when
you make it again. -Franklin P. Jones

Al Drake wrote:

I fear I'm probably at the end of my limited knowledge - I leave
you in the expert hands of Paul (-:. Hope I helped clarify a few
things though.

On a final attempt I tried again to restore an image with Macrium
Reflect 6 to a Crucial SSD and got the same failed results. I plugged
in a second SSD inside a USB3 docking station and watched it try to
install the drive but fail. In front of me now I am viewing a window
that reports "Device driver software was not successfully installed".
I made sure I shut down the PSU before installing the cloned SSD and
booting. In BIOS I can see this drive along with a USB Stick but just
not within Windows. It's looking more and more like a fresh install
onto my M.2 SSD when it arrives Monday.

It may be worth trying to re-install the Chipset drivers.
They can be found at the manufacturers website.

JT

On 6/28/2015 1:41 AM, JT wrote:
Al Drake wrote:

I fear I'm probably at the end of my limited knowledge - I leave
you in the expert hands of Paul (-:. Hope I helped clarify a few
things though.

On a final attempt I tried again to restore an image with Macrium
Reflect 6 to a Crucial SSD and got the same failed results. I plugged
in a second SSD inside a USB3 docking station and watched it try to
install the drive but fail. In front of me now I am viewing a window
that reports "Device driver software was not successfully installed".
I made sure I shut down the PSU before installing the cloned SSD and
booting. In BIOS I can see this drive along with a USB Stick but just
not within Windows. It's looking more and more like a fresh install
onto my M.2 SSD when it arrives Monday.

It may be worth trying to re-install the Chipset drivers.
They can be found at the manufacturers website.

JT

Thanks JT, That's a good idea. Would that be the manufacturer of each
USB drive/stick or the manufacturer of the chip installed on the
motherboard? I also wonder if I can locate drivers from the System
folder of the SSD that works. Maybe I can direct the installation
procedure to that folder. When it asks I let it look online if I
remember correctly.

On 6/28/2015 1:41 AM, JT wrote:
Al Drake wrote:

I fear I'm probably at the end of my limited knowledge - I leave
you in the expert hands of Paul (-:. Hope I helped clarify a few
things though.

On a final attempt I tried again to restore an image with Macrium
Reflect 6 to a Crucial SSD and got the same failed results. I plugged
in a second SSD inside a USB3 docking station and watched it try to
install the drive but fail. In front of me now I am viewing a window
that reports "Device driver software was not successfully installed".
I made sure I shut down the PSU before installing the cloned SSD and
booting. In BIOS I can see this drive along with a USB Stick but just
not within Windows. It's looking more and more like a fresh install
onto my M.2 SSD when it arrives Monday.

It may be worth trying to re-install the Chipset drivers.
They can be found at the manufacturers website.

JT

I just looked at the SSD that doesn't see the UBS devices and used UBS
TREE VIEW
http://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbtreeview_e.html

What I see are the driver locations with no indication that anything
is not working. The exact same as when I use that application with the
original SSD.

Everything looks good other than the fact that these drives don't show
and device manager shows them with the yellow explanation mark.

On 6/27/2015 6:42 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Al Drake
writes:
[]
You can accuse me of anything. I'm probably guilty of most.
(-:
Interesting that you mention the mouse and keyboard of being USB1. I
never gave that a thought. Actually I still have many older style
devices stashed away somewhere like hubs of unknown versions.

ISTR that USB 1.1 could run at two speeds, the faster being 12 meg
(can't remember whether bits or bytes). That's more than required for a
keyboard or mouse, so I can't see that they _needed_ to be USB2; whether
they _were_ (/are), I don't know. (USB 1.1's faster speed was _just
about_ fast enough for SD video in theory, but in practice any video
capture device in the USB1.1 era tended to capture at half resolution
and/or half field/frame rate - that's when FireWire had its brief heyday.
[]

The Question

SuperUser reader philipthegreat wants to know if plugging a mouse into a
USB 3.0 port will provide any speed benefits or not:


http://www.howtogeek.com/193866/are-...-usb-3.0-port/

Would plugging a mouse into a USB 3.0 port make a difference or not?

The Answer

SuperUser contributors AFH and Michael Hamilton have the answer for us.
First up, AFH:

1.A mouse is a slow device (the old PS/2 standard was RS232C-based), so
USB 1.0 is more than adequate.

2.USB 3.0 ports have extra connectors for high-speed transfers, but also
have standard USB 2.0 connectors for backward compatibility.

3.Unless your mouse has these extra connectors (and I can not imagine
any mouse that has them), it will connect via USB 2.0 in a USB 3.0
connector.

"So you are entirely correct. Plugging a mouse into a USB 3.0 connector
confers no benefits whatsoever. If a mouse responds slowly, it is
because something else is hogging the CPU to the detriment of the mouse
driver."

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...e+and+keyboard

I still have several Firewire HDD enclosures an cards stashed away. I
remember connecting two systems together with a Firewire cable and wen I
turned on one the other booted also.

http://www.mactech.com/content/usb-3...uture-firewire

FireWire 800 products today deliver 90 MB/second of sustainable
throughput. With the anticipated three percent overhead, FireWire 3200
could deliver nearly 390 MB/second of usable data bandwidth, though a
straight-forward 400 percent increase would be 360 MB/second. That's
enough to drive full 1920 x 1200 HDTV signals at up to 50 fps.