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#31
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On 4/11/2013 4:02 PM, mick wrote:
I have a friend who is asking me to help him choose a new desktop computer. He has an very old machine running win xp, he does not do much other than email, internet, a bit of video editing and photograph editing. He is also not that computer literate, I have to walk him through most basic things much of the time. Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone. The new computer will be between 4 and 8gb, no gaming, no touch screen. I don't want to appear selfish from my point of view and help him spend his money by buying an already oldish win7 when the newer win8 is widely advertised as the next best thing since sliced bread if you see what I mean. As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time. Oh, what to do :-? Well you have had some very nice and well thought out responses. I was too lazy. What are you going to recommend?? Decisions, decisions, god knows LOL What is apparent from much of the good advice posted here is for me to stand back a little and let my friend decide what he thinks he will like and then for me to help after he has made his choice. Maybe I will have to learn win8 pretty damn quick. LOL What makes things a little harder with my friend is that he is French, talks English OK but doesn't always understand it :-) -- mick |
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#32
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New computer but win 7 or 8
"ray carter" wrote in message ... On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:02:28 +0100, mick wrote: I have a friend who is asking me to help him choose a new desktop computer. He has an very old machine running win xp, he does not do much other than email, internet, a bit of video editing and photograph editing. He is also not that computer literate, I have to walk him through most basic things much of the time. Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone. If you're going to have to walk him through things, it would make sense to advise him to get what you are most comfortable with. Only if you want a new life partner LOL :-) I agree with both Ken's assessments; sit him down in front of each and see what he's most comfortable with. Just don't say things like "I'm not sure I know how to do that", "That's a really ugly desktop", etc. Let him make up his own mind without your (possibly) prejudicial influence. He'll never learn to walk if you carry him all the time. Just my 2¢ worth . . . You hit the nail on the head there. :-) -- mick |
#33
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On 4/12/13 4:44 AM, mick wrote:
On 4/11/13 5:02 PM, mick wrote: snip Thanks Ken for taking the time to write so much, a lot of good information to digest. FWIW, much of my suggestions are a compilation of things that have happened to me in trying to help others. Usually as a result of think I knew what was best, what I knew how to do, etc. rather than listening to the other person, and then helping them get what they wanted. Not what I wanted. Good luck. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.3 Firefox 20.0 Thunderbird 17.0.5 LibreOffice 4.0.1.2 |
#34
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New computer but win 7 or 8
Hi, Mike.
Win+Break That is, hold down the Windows logo key while you press the Break key. Any Windows version since at least Win2K will pop up the System Properties page, which will identify the Windows version that is running. Trouble is, many modern keyboards don't have a Break key, or they hide it. Many combine it with the Pause key and we must toggle the Function key on/off, so they call it the Pause/Break key. Other keyboards require other workarounds. Another way is to press the Win key, then type Winver and press Enter. Or run Control Panel and click System. And there are other ways. Of course, none of these is obvious from just staring at the monitor screen. But if you knew how to do this in Win7 (or Vista or WinXP or...), then you know how to do it in Win8 - and vice versa. And if you didn't know how, it takes only a minute to learn. ;) RC -- R. C. White, CPA San Marcos, TX Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010) Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3505.0912) in Win8 Pro "Mike Barnes" wrote in message ... Ken Blake : I use Windows 8, almost exclusively with the traditional desktop interface, and with Start 8 installed. If you were to look at and use my computer, you would have a hard time realizing that it's not Windows 7. Interesting... exactly how *would* I discover that it's not W7? Would my desktop look any different, for instance? Would I see my quick launch bar, my taskbar, and the tray exactly as I do now? With the Windows Classic theme? (I'm not bothered about the orb, I don't use it.) -- Mike Barnes |
#35
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:02:28 +0100, mick wrote:
I have a friend who is asking me to help him choose a new desktop computer. He has an very old machine running win xp, he does not do much other than email, internet, a bit of video editing and photograph editing. He is also not that computer literate, I have to walk him through most basic things much of the time. Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone. The new computer will be between 4 and 8gb, no gaming, no touch screen. I don't want to appear selfish from my point of view and help him spend his money by buying an already oldish win7 when the newer win8 is widely advertised as the next best thing since sliced bread if you see what I mean. As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time. Oh, what to do :-? The thing to remember about Win8 is that it is primarily optimized for *touch-screen* hardware. Desktop PC with touch-screen monitor or tablet PC. It has a smart-phone like GUI. -- =========== Tecknomage =========== Computer Systems Specialist IT Technician (retired) San Diego, CA |
#36
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New computer but win 7 or 8
"Tecknomage" wrote in message
... On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:02:28 +0100, mick wrote: I have a friend who is asking me to help him choose a new desktop computer. He has an very old machine running win xp, he does not do much other than email, internet, a bit of video editing and photograph editing. He is also not that computer literate, I have to walk him through most basic things much of the time. Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone. The new computer will be between 4 and 8gb, no gaming, no touch screen. I don't want to appear selfish from my point of view and help him spend his money by buying an already oldish win7 when the newer win8 is widely advertised as the next best thing since sliced bread if you see what I mean. As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time. Oh, what to do :-? The thing to remember about Win8 is that it is primarily optimized for *touch-screen* hardware. Desktop PC with touch-screen monitor or tablet PC. It has a smart-phone like GUI. And this is Microsoft's big error with Win 8: they are trying to force everyone, even a skilled user of a Windows XP, Vista or 7 desktop PC, to use an OS which is more suited to a tablet with a touch screen. They are imposing change for the sake of change, and forcing people to unlearn what they already know in order to learn something new. By all means provide a new tablet-oriented shell as an *option* but don't make it compulsory and throw away the old shell. From my limited use of Win 8 when setting them up for customers, the innards of Win 8 are probably fine: it may well be faster, more secure and have a few additional capabilities. But I'd say that to be usable by anyone who has prior knowledge of XP/Vista/7, it is essential that Win 7 shell, taskbar and start button are installed. |
#37
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:02:28 +0100, mick wrote:
I have a friend who is asking me to help him choose a new desktop computer. He has an very old machine running win xp, he does not do much other than email, internet, a bit of video editing and photograph editing. He is also not that computer literate, I have to walk him through most basic things much of the time. Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone. The new computer will be between 4 and 8gb, no gaming, no touch screen. I don't want to appear selfish from my point of view and help him spend his money by buying an already oldish win7 when the newer win8 is widely advertised as the next best thing since sliced bread if you see what I mean. As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time. Oh, what to do :-? A couple of thoughts. Whern I made the most recent notebook purchase from HP I had a choice of Vista or Win 7. I took Vista as I was familiar with it and thought I would upgrade later to Win 7. A year or so after that my wife wanted a notebook and all I could find was Win 7 machines so that is what we bought. Since she had Win 7, I decided I needed to upgrade to Win 7 so I could answer any questions she had. The results: Immediate after installing Win 7on my notebook, I found that HP had not and would not be offering Win 7 drivers for my machine since it wasn't the native OS. I managed to work around that after a few days but the hassle factor was high and the fiddle factor was ongoing. The second thing was she never really learned Win 7. It was just too easy to yell for me. When she expressed an interest in an I Pad I immediate took her to the Apple store and bought one and also Apple's support service . Gave her notebook to my grandson who thinks it is great because it has big screen and 2 disk drives. (He has no idea the second drive is not actually working.) Now when my wife says something isn't right with her I Pad or she has some question, I just smile and hand her the phone. Life is good. |
#38
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 19:13:05 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote: On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 16:25:05 -0700, Ken Blake wrote: On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:02:28 +0100, mick wrote: Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone. The new computer will be between 4 and 8gb, no gaming, no touch screen. I don't want to appear selfish from my point of view and help him spend his money by buying an already oldish win7 when the newer win8 is widely advertised as the next best thing since sliced bread if you see what I mean. As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time. Oh, what to do :-? I strongly recommend Windows 8. It is almost always better to have the newer version, rather than the older one. Despite what many people think about it, it is not necessary to use the new Metro/Modern interface: Windows 8 has two interfaces; the Modern/Metro Interface (which may be all you've looked at) and the traditional Desktop Interface. That traditional Desktop Interface is almost identical to Windows 7's interface; the biggest difference is that there is no Start Orb to click to bring up the Start menu. But note that you can get the Start Orb back by using one of several third-party programs, either free or very inexpensive (Classic Shell at http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ and Start8 at http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/; my personal preference is Start8, but they are both very good). And going from one interface to the other is very easy; there are several ways, but simply pressing the Windows key is perhaps the easiest. Simply installing one of those two and using the traditional desktop interface may be a better choice for you than going to Windows 7. I use Windows 8, almost exclusively with the traditional desktop interface, and with Start 8 installed. If you were to look at and use my computer, you would have a hard time realizing that it's not Windows 7. And another new third-party program that I like and you might want is the $4.99 ModernMix at http://www.stardock.com/products/modernmix/ I agree with you to a point. I had Win8 for a while but then started over for reasons other then the OS and went back to Win7. I just could not see any advantage to win8 for Desktop use. The plus's, what few there were, were in very small performance improvements and some nice (but not critically needed) improvements in some of the native apps. The Cons included the horrible look to Win8, it was like going back in time to Win3 with zero finesse in the "looks" aspect. What you call "the horrible look" isn't there on my machine. Please reread my message quoted above, and let me repeat "I use Windows 8, almost exclusively with the traditional desktop interface, and with Start 8 installed. If you were to look at and use my computer, you would have a hard time realizing that it's not Windows 7. " |
#39
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 10:10:16 +0100, Mike Barnes
wrote: Ken Blake : I use Windows 8, almost exclusively with the traditional desktop interface, and with Start 8 installed. If you were to look at and use my computer, you would have a hard time realizing that it's not Windows 7. Interesting... exactly how *would* I discover that it's not W7? As always, hold down the Windows key, and press Pause|Break. Or just look around enough and you'll see a few small differences. But there aren't many and they are small. Would my desktop look any different, for instance? Not much. Would I see my quick launch bar, my taskbar, and the tray exactly as I do now? With the Windows Classic theme? (I'm not bothered about the orb, I don't use it.) Yes. |
#40
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:13:28 +0100, mick wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:02:28 +0100, mick wrote: Is there anywhere where there are computers with Win 7 and Win 8 that he can play with? Maybe his reactions will be informative. That is a good idea, I will give him my laptop to play with for awhile so he gets a feel for win7. There are plenty of new machines in the shops locally with win8. I don't think it's a good idea at all. He will see Windows 8 mostly with the Modern/Metro interface and without any of the third-party programs I recommended installed. So he will very likely get an erroneous poor opinion of it. |
#41
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 11:48:24 +0100, mick wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:02:28 +0100, mick wrote: As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time. Let me add a few points to my earlier message, strongly recommending Windows 8, and explain why I say that 1. If Windows 8 is better than Windows 7, for the vast majority of people it's not much better. 2. But even if it's not better than Windows 7, it's also not worse. In most cases (again, using the desktop interface and using third-party software like Start8), it's almost identical. 3. For you, and for almost everyone running Windows 7, there's little reason to upgrade. Staying with Windows 7, at least for the near future, should be fine. 4. But for someone buying a new computer and having to choose between Windows 7 or 8, to me it's no contest: he should choose the newer version, Windows 8. That's for the following reasons: a. Windows 8 will be supported longer than Windows 7 b. As new hardware and software comes out, some of it will be supported only on Windows 8. Get Windows 8 *now*, so you don't have to upgrade later (but for someone like you who already has Windows 7, there's no disadvantage to upgrading later rather than now). c. Security improvements will mostly be directed toward the newest version, Windows 8. d. There is *always* a learning curve and a potential for problems when you take a step as big as this one, regardless of how wonderful whatever you're contemplating moving to is. Sooner or later you'll have to upgrade (to Windows 8 or its successor) because you'll want support for hardware or software that you can't get in 7, but don't rush it. e. Your friend should embark on the learning curve to Windows 8 now, not have to take the learning curve for Windows 7 now, and for Windows 8 later. So to repeat myself, you and almost everyone else, will have to upgrade to Windows 8 (or its successor) sooner or later, but there's no rush. You are not like your friend buying a new computer. You certainly put a good case across for win8. Your comments are most welcome, thanks Ken. You're welcome. Glad to help. |
#42
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 07:42:50 -0700, Tecknomage
wrote: The thing to remember about Win8 is that it is primarily optimized for *touch-screen* hardware. Desktop PC with touch-screen monitor or tablet PC. It has a smart-phone like GUI. As far as I'm concerned, the most important thing to remember is that it has *two* interfaces. The one you are talking about (the "smart-phone like GUI") is only the default one, and one that doesn't have to ever be used. As I've said elsewhere in this thread, I hardly ever use it; the other interface, the one I use and recommend for those without touch screens, is almost exactly like Windows 7's , especially if you add a third-party program. |
#43
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New computer but win 7 or 8
In Ken Blake
wrote: As far as I'm concerned, the most important thing to remember is that it has *two* interfaces. The one you are talking about (the "smart-phone like GUI") is only the default one, and one that doesn't have to ever be used. As I've said elsewhere in this thread, I hardly ever use it; the other interface, the one I use and recommend for those without touch screens, is almost exactly like Windows 7's , especially if you add a third-party program. Ignoring the GUI, how similar are the underlying OSes? Is Win8 "Professional" different in any meaningful way from Win7 "Professional," for example? -- St. Paul, MN |
#44
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New computer but win 7 or 8
On 4/12/13 9:07 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 19:13:05 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote: On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 16:25:05 -0700, Ken Blake wrote: On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:02:28 +0100, mick wrote: snip apps. The Cons included the horrible look to Win8, it was like going back in time to Win3 with zero finesse in the "looks" aspect. What you call "the horrible look" isn't there on my machine. Please reread my message quoted above, and let me repeat "I use Windows 8, almost exclusively with the traditional desktop interface, and with Start 8 installed. If you were to look at and use my computer, you would have a hard time realizing that it's not Windows 7. " Believing Ashton's comment refers to the desktop as it is out of the box, I have to agree with him. If we are going to comment on the visual aspect of any OS, I think that should represent how it looks "out of the box", not what we can turn it into with 3rd party additions. When I saw the desktop, my first reaction was it looked like GEM/3, which is even older than Win3. I went and looked at the GEM/3 desktop, and Win 8 isn't quite that bad. I'd say Win 8 is closer to the Atari 16/32 bit desktop when it first came out. It was based on GEM. Like you, I'll be customizing my Win7/8 desktops when the new computer is finished. If FedEx is to be believed, the DOA motherboard replacement should be here today. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.3 Firefox 20.0 Thunderbird 17.0.5 LibreOffice 4.0.1.2 |
#45
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New computer but win 7 or 8
I like the Windows Media Center in Windows 7. I read somewhere that the WMC
doesn't come with Windows 8 but must be bought separately. Is that true? -Moonglo "mick" wrote in message ... I have a friend who is asking me to help him choose a new desktop computer. He has an very old machine running win xp, he does not do much other than email, internet, a bit of video editing and photograph editing. He is also not that computer literate, I have to walk him through most basic things much of the time. Choosing a computer to suit his needs is not much trouble but I am stuck on whether to advise win7 or win8. I know a lot about win7 and can help him to easily get to grips with understanding it, but if I go for win8 I know it will be more difficult, as I do not have that here at home to play with when he asks the inevitable help questions over the phone. The new computer will be between 4 and 8gb, no gaming, no touch screen. I don't want to appear selfish from my point of view and help him spend his money by buying an already oldish win7 when the newer win8 is widely advertised as the next best thing since sliced bread if you see what I mean. As to myself, I have three machines here with win7 and cannot ever see me upgrading to win8 as all the reports I have read so far just don't convince me it is better. I had vista on a couple of machines awhile back and although it worked well(for me), win 7 just blew it out of the water and that is what I will be sticking with for quite a long time. Oh, what to do :-? -- mick |
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