Can Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint & with fonts?

Am Fri, 30 Mar 2018 00:00:59 +0100, schrieb J. P. Gilliver (John):

Though it offends my engineering sensibilities, given the above context
- quite small, limited number of colours - I suspect a (high enough
resolution) raster format would involve the least amount of processing
for them: I assume, since they have told you they'll take anything
(except native powerpoint),

That's a good catch on your part John, in that they said they'd take
anything, even powerpoint.

I gave them Powerpoint last time I did this, about a year or so ago, and
they simply charged me for "layout work".

My goal is simply to reduce that "layout work" as I can't figure out why
they need to lay out anything since I already did all the layout - but they
manually laid it out, so I'm just trying to figure out what they can
directly input into their Adobe Illustrator that reduces their manual
layouts.

and have already accepted a raster-format as
a backup message, that they have an edge-detection to cutter-driver
software. And if you're going for a raster format, there's little to
choose between them: BMP would need least processing to get to the
bitmap as it's basically raw image data anyway;

They did a set of signs for us a while ago, and they were perfectly fine
from the Powerpoint. The only thing I want to do is reduce their manual
layout on the Adobe Illustrator side.

Apparently they loaded the font, from what they told me, so I can't reduce
that step for them, and then they *manually* laid out the sign in Adobe
Illustrator.

From what they told me, I could have handed them a paper photo for all the
good that the PowerPoint layout I did was.

I think that's crazy, but that's why I'm asking you, since they don't mind
doing all the manual work in the world - but I mind it since they charge us
for that layout which is added for *each* variation of the sign we want.

That is, there is no amortization of labor with their process, which also
seems crazy to me.

GIF and TIF would make
for smaller files but otherwise be more or less identical. I'd avoid
JPEG because it is a lossy compression, and the artefacts are
particularly evident around edges.

I'm perfectly happy with *any* format that Powerpoint will save, GIF and
TIF being two of them (but there are literally something like 30 formats
that Powerpoint 2007 will save).

Some of those format suck, by the way, since the WMF, for example, was
unreadable, and the DOC/RTF was only the text and not the graphics, so
maybe PowerPoint has about a dozen realistic outputs, GIF and TIFF being
two of them that I've tested to look fine by my standards.

This is why the question is what format can be input into Adobe Illustrator
that will *directly* work - without a shop needing to do *any* manual
layout (other than to size it appropriately).

I don't know what formats PPT can output in - quite possibly _not_ BMP,
GIF, or TIF. More or less anything that can "print" can produce PDF,
since you can use a PDF "printer", such as pdf995 (the one I use) or one
of many others - though I think recent versions of Office include a .pdf
generator anyway. (The odd time I've tried to use it, I've found it more
complicated than just "printing" to pdf995, but that could just be my
lack of familiarity with Office's PDF output format.) And the conversion
from PDF to cutter-driver _might_ involve less processing.

From this discussion, you just made me wonder if my "aspect ratio" is
correct, where I don't know how to get the aspect ratio out of the
PowerPoint tool.

I just measured, manually, a portrait-mode slide on the screen, which
measured 6-1/4 inches on top and 9-1/2 inches long.

Will they send back a "proof" of some sort, showing what their
cutter-driver output will look like, for you to see?

They didn't last time, so I think the answer is no (it's a family operation
where everyone is neighbors so we don't want to complain).

Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 19:10:51 -0400, schrieb Neil:

I understand your interest in minimizing the effort required by your
printing company. As I pointed out a number of times, a properly
generated PDF file will not need to be imported into anything for
output, especially since your needs don't include specialized shapes.

So, the right tool to use is a good PDF creator, and since Adobe
created, defined and manages the PDF format, I've always used their
products for that purpose.

This is a good point that I hadn't thought of, which is Adobe makes both
the Illustrator tool and they defined the PDF format, so, we would think
that the PDF format should be able to be sucked in directly into Adobe
Illustrator with the absolute minimum amount of setup necessary.

I wonder if it's hard to scale the slide which I just measured on the
screen to be 6-1/4 inches on top and 9-1/2 inches long.

I don't have the aluminum blank with me, but I think they're 12x18, where I
think I said 18x24 before, but thinking about the size, I think they're
12x18.

Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 19:04:03 -0400, schrieb Neil:

To be clear, I didn't say that raster versus vector would be relevant to
what you are attempting to do. Small road signs like yours that are
viewed from a distance that would make it possible to use a number of
programs to generate adequate images. However, that does not negate the
point I was making about bitmap resolution and file formats.

Agreed and understood that there certainly are applications where the exact
color and curved shapes would matter greatly.

Luckily, this is only a question about what format can come out of
PowerPoint that has the lowest possible setup in Adobe Illustrator.

Ragnusen Ultred wrote:
Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 19:10:51 -0400, schrieb Neil:

I understand your interest in minimizing the effort required by your
printing company. As I pointed out a number of times, a properly
generated PDF file will not need to be imported into anything for
output, especially since your needs don't include specialized shapes.

So, the right tool to use is a good PDF creator, and since Adobe
created, defined and manages the PDF format, I've always used their
products for that purpose.

This is a good point that I hadn't thought of, which is Adobe makes both
the Illustrator tool and they defined the PDF format, so, we would think
that the PDF format should be able to be sucked in directly into Adobe
Illustrator with the absolute minimum amount of setup necessary.

I wonder if it's hard to scale the slide which I just measured on the
screen to be 6-1/4 inches on top and 9-1/2 inches long.

I don't have the aluminum blank with me, but I think they're 12x18, where I
think I said 18x24 before, but thinking about the size, I think they're
12x18.

Draw dimensional marks on the drawing (away from the active area)
to show the dimensions ? Or, try to make the output print "to scale".
PDF pages specify a page size, which shows in the status bar.

You can set the page size in a PDF printer, to reflect what you
want, then select a scaling option for the print step. For example,
someone was asking about this yesterday, and I found a "Fit to Page"
option in the printing thing I was using. It's also possible
a percentage field is available for picking a precise value you like.

Some of the tools I've used in the past, they "respected" the scale
selected for the source document. If you worked within an 11"x17"
document on the screen, then at print time (at 100%) the print would
be pretty well exactly 11x17 inches. Minus the margins of course,
which would be properly subtracted so as to not upset the
preserved scaling of 1:1. You could still select a scale factor
at print time, like reduce the 11x17 to 8.5x11, but the result
is then "on your head" if it isn't right.

Some other tool flows are "scale challenged", and you'll have
a devil of a time getting the results you want. Indicate
the active area of the print (outside dimension of vinyl decal)
might give the operator some idea what you want. The operator
can then scale your drawing within Illustrator, then apply the
CutContour as required.

Paul

On 3/29/2018 8:05 PM, Ragnusen Ultred wrote:
Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 19:04:03 -0400, schrieb Neil:

To be clear, I didn't say that raster versus vector would be relevant
to what you are attempting to do. Small road signs like yours that are
viewed from a distance that would make it possible to use a number of
programs to generate adequate images. However, that does not negate
the point I was making about bitmap resolution and file formats.

Agreed and understood that there certainly are applications where the exact
color and curved shapes would matter greatly.

Luckily, this is only a question about what format can come out of
PowerPoint that has the lowest possible setup in Adobe Illustrator.

You keep asking about importing a PowerPoint file into Illustrator, but
you don't say why you think that's necessary. It probably isn't. One
more time; Illustrator is not a PDF editor, and PowerPoint is not a
vector graphics program. If you can grasp that, then know that there is
no compatibility between those programs that will save someone time or
effort. Just the opposite, in fact.

--
best regards,

Neil

On 3/29/2018 8:03 PM, Ragnusen Ultred wrote:
Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 19:10:51 -0400, schrieb Neil:

I understand your interest in minimizing the effort required by your
printing company. As I pointed out a number of times, a properly
generated PDF file will not need to be imported into anything for
output, especially since your needs don't include specialized shapes.

So, the right tool to use is a good PDF creator, and since Adobe
created, defined and manages the PDF format, I've always used their
products for that purpose.

This is a good point that I hadn't thought of, which is Adobe makes both
the Illustrator tool and they defined the PDF format, so, we would think
that the PDF format should be able to be sucked in directly into Adobe
Illustrator with the absolute minimum amount of setup necessary.

Why do you feel the need to import a PDF file into Illustrator? For such
small signs, just do it in PowerPoint and create a valid PDF file for
your printing company.

--
best regards,

Neil

Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 23:39:16 -0400, schrieb Neil:

You keep asking about importing a PowerPoint file into Illustrator, but
you don't say why you think that's necessary. It probably isn't. One
more time; Illustrator is not a PDF editor, and PowerPoint is not a
vector graphics program. If you can grasp that, then know that there is
no compatibility between those programs that will save someone time or
effort. Just the opposite, in fact.

I understand your concerns, where I think you think I have more say in the
matter than I do.

I must not have been clear, but the document is in PowerPoint, which made
the most sense at the time of creation, because more than a dozen different
people had to work on it, where MS Office is pretty much the only format
that does simple signs that everyone already knows how to use and that they
have the software already installed.

And, I guess I wasn't clear, but the shop is using Adobe Illustrator.
That's not up to me either.

So it's not like I have any choice in the starting point, or in the ending
point.

My job is to keep the costs down given those are the starting points and
ending points, which is no different a job than anyone gets in the real
world there they don't get to determine the starting or ending points.

So the /only/ influence I have, is in how to get from the starting point to
the ending point. As I said many times, the shop doesn't care, but they
also /manually/ do the layout in Adobe Illustrator.

I'm trying to skip /that/ manual layout stage which will save us labor time
as there are scores of slides in the powerpoint, each one being a different
but very similar sign.

In the end, the /only/ format that was suggested that stands a chance of
working is PDF, but nobody seems to have Adobe Illustrator because nobody
has confirmed that PDF will work without needing to manually change the
layout by hand in Adobe Illustrator.

So, really, the only question that needs to be answered, which only someone
who has actually done it can answer, is whether the PDF input that the
Adobe site says it has actually works the way we'd want it to work.

1. Save PPT to PDF
2. Load PDF to AI
3. Print to Vinyl

Is it that easy?

NOTE: Only someone who has actually done it will know the answer.

Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 23:44:21 -0400, schrieb Neil:

Why do you feel the need to import a PDF file into Illustrator? For such
small signs, just do it in PowerPoint and create a valid PDF file for
your printing company.

Just to be clear, the sign shop doesn't care what we give them. When we
asked before we started this group project, the shop told us to give it to
them in any format. They didn't say this, but I'm sure they'd take a hand
drawing on a piece of paper, since it's just a black & white sign with text
and a border of the type and size and material that is a no-parking sign.

So we did one batch of signs in PowerPoint and then printed to PDF and gave
them the name of the font, and they printed the signs, but we were
horrified that they charged us manual layout in Adobe Illustrator for every
single sign (even though they're almost all alike).

I don't get to choose the starting point. It's a multi-page PowerPoint,
with one sign per page.

I don't get to choose the ending point, which is Adobe Illustrator.

All I want to do is eliminate the manual layout given that those are the
starting and ending points.

Only someone who has actually done it will know the answer because we all
know lots of things are supposed to work that don't work (for example,
PowerPoint says it outputs to WMF but I tried it with these signs and the
result was unusable).

On Thu, 29 Mar 2018 15:23:39 -0700, Ragnusen Ultred wrote:

They tell me they can accept anything but I'm trying to reduce the
layout expense - which is the main reason for asking the simple
question of what formats from PowerPoint *directly* can be read
into Adobe Illustrator for the least amount of work on their
part.

Why ask us? You shoud be negotiating this with the supplier.

Ragnusen Ultred wrote:
Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 14:31:51 -0400, schrieb Paul:

How does PowerPoint handle color ?

The color is a good question, which I had not mentioned, where, in this
case, it's a single-color sign (black and white) where the amount or
intensity of the black isn't an issue.

The rasterization versus vectorization also isn't an issue at these sizes,
which are 18"x24" typical of standard no-parking road sign types.

It has text, and a border graphic. Nothing fancy.

The question is simply what format is best for Adobe Illustrator to just
suck in directly, with no work involved (if possible). They will print it
from Adobe Illustrator to vinyl, and then lay the sheet of vinyl on the
sign and manually peel off the excess vinyl, as I understand the process.

They tell me they can accept anything but I'm trying to reduce the layout
expense - which is the main reason for asking the simple question of what
formats from PowerPoint *directly* can be read into Adobe Illustrator for
the least amount of work on their part.

The PDF seems to work.

Here is a simulation.

1) Sample file made in LibreOffice Impress (the equivalent of PowerPoint).
I selected a paper size of 17"x11" and I don't know if I could
have selected a paper size that you wanted. In any case,
this is the PDF exported from LibreOffice. The fonts are embedded.

I didn't want to put the word "squirrel" at the top of the drawing,
and LibreOffice tries to embed LiberationSerif font for nothing.
I added the title "squirrel" and applied LibrationSerif font, so
it would have something to embed. This stopped one warning from
Acrobat Reader when I verified the document exported.

https://s17.postimg.org/hne85qcbj/ex...uirrel_pdf.gif

2) This is Illustrator CS2 pulling in the PDF.

https://s17.postimg.org/4yjxm1qrj/illus_CS2.gif

Illustrator complains about both fonts in this case, even
though they're embedded. But it proceeds anyway to convert
the font to outlines and it shows the control points as
being selected.

The operator would then have to create a CutContour where the
red box I put around the outside is located. That's still going
to cost you a "layout" charge, simply because the machine
cannot start the printing process, unless a CutContour is
defined. Illustrator has at least two kinds of data stored
inside it, while PDF has only one. The Illustrator in a way,
is a "dual representation".

There's no point in me saving out the Illustrator .ai file,
as it really wouldn't have any meaning (i.e. I don't have
any more steps that I can realistically simulate).

If you remember the CS2 incident, this is what I used for
the simulation, in a VM. You need four files from this page,
a copy of QuickTime 6.0.0 from oldversions, your squirrel4.pdf,
to do the very quick Illustrator test.

https://www.techspot.com/downloads/4...uite-free.html

This test doesn't prove much of anything, except that the PDF
does pull into Illustrator. If you needed to "re-purpose" the
artwork while it was inside Illustrator, it might be quite
a challenge to do anything with it. It doesn't look like the
importation is "seamless", at least, it doesn't give that
impression so far. But for your purposes, it might not matter.

I got the idea to do the test, from here. I didn't need to
tick any boxes like "Convert All Text" or "Convert All Strokes"
and the tool seemed to do more or less what you wanted automatically.

http://blog.globalizationpartners.co...-are-lost.aspx

The edge of the font looks pretty weird, and I don't
know exactly how to describe how the font has been
converted. It doesn't look exactly like Bezier.

https://s17.postimg.org/ekijzkbf3/font_edges.gif

Paul

In message , Ragnusen Ultred
writes:
[]
I must not have been clear, but the document is in PowerPoint, which
[]
And, I guess I wasn't clear, but the shop is using Adobe Illustrator.
[]
So the /only/ influence I have, is in how to get from the starting
point to the ending point. As I said many times, the shop doesn't care,
but they also /manually/ do the layout in Adobe Illustrator.

I'm trying to skip /that/ manual layout stage which will save us labor
time as there are scores of slides in the powerpoint, each one being a
different but very similar sign.
[]
So, really, the only question that needs to be answered, which only
someone who has actually done it can answer, is whether the PDF input
that the Adobe site says it has actually works the way we'd want it to
work.
[]
There's another question you need to be asking, and you need to be
asking the shop - unless you already have: regardless of whether
Illustrator _can_ accept input in any format you supply them, are they
_going_ to do a (possibly unnecessary) "manual layout" stage anyway (and
charge you for it)? If they're going to do it anyway, there's no point
in your continuing to go round in circles here. Another way to rephrase
the question: "What format can I give you that will avoid the manual
layout charge?"

Depending on what sort of relationship you have with the shop, such as
will they let you see them working, I'd be taking just the first sign to
them in a variety of formats - I'd suggest PowerPoint, GIF, and
PDF-with-embedded-font - and asking to see them working with them.
Probably PDF first. as I think that's the _most_ likely to be usable
automatically, followed by GIF.

I can see several possibilities, which are more negotiational than
technical:

1. The shop base their business model on _always_ doing - and charging
for - the layout stage.
2. They _could_ avoid the layout stage and use what you supply, but only
_know_ how to use one particular format (and are ashamed to admit that).
3. There _is_ some minor tweak you could do that would help.

All the discussion here has been based on variations of option 3., but
it sounds to _me_ as if you aren't talking to the shop enough, to
establish whether 2. or 1. is the case. I may be completely wrong in
this, of course.

Have they - e. g. in their published price lists (paper or website) -
provided any indication that they ever _don't_ do the manual layout
stage? Them saying "we accept any format" makes me think they treat all
formats the same as they would a paper copy.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G(AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The web is a blank slate; you can't design technology that is 'good'. You can't
design paper that you can only write good things on. There are no good or evil
tools. You can put an engine in an ambulance or a tank. - Sir Tim Berners-Lee,
Radio Times 2009-Jan-30 to -Feb-5.

On 3/29/2018 11:48 PM, Ragnusen Ultred wrote:
Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 23:39:16 -0400, schrieb Neil:

You keep asking about importing a PowerPoint file into Illustrator,
but you don't say why you think that's necessary. It probably isn't.
One more time; Illustrator is not a PDF editor, and PowerPoint is not
a vector graphics program. If you can grasp that, then know that there
is no compatibility between those programs that will save someone time
or effort. Just the opposite, in fact.

[...]
And, I guess I wasn't clear, but the shop is using Adobe Illustrator.
That's not up to me either.

From what you've written before, it sounds like the signs are rather
simple rectangular objects. Does the shop have to modify them in some
way? If not, there's no benefit to involving Illustrator, and if so,
they can place the file in Illustrator just as you, and it takes almost
no time to do so.

So it's not like I have any choice in the starting point, or in the
ending point.

It seems to me that there is a lack of familiarity with Illustrator.
That they use Illustrator to create original graphics only underscores
the fact that they rely on PostScript devices, like almost every print
shop in the world at this point in time. Valid PDF files can be sent
directly to output, since the file format is PostScript. Nothing will be
more efficient or save more time and effort than that.

My suggestion would be, once again, to concentrate on creating valid PDF
file of your artwork. Your shop can verify this.

NOTE: Only someone who has actually done it will know the answer.

I've done far more than this over the last 30 years.

--
best regards,

Neil

On 3/29/2018 11:55 PM, Ragnusen Ultred wrote:
Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 23:44:21 -0400, schrieb Neil:

Why do you feel the need to import a PDF file into Illustrator? For
such small signs, just do it in PowerPoint and create a valid PDF file
for your printing company.

[...]
So we did one batch of signs in PowerPoint and then printed to PDF and gave
them the name of the font, and they printed the signs, but we were
horrified that they charged us manual layout in Adobe Illustrator for every
single sign (even though they're almost all alike).

The reason you were charged is that by telling them the name of the
font, you forced them to create the layout manually. If you create a
valid PDF file _with your font embedded_ there will be no need for them
to do anything other than send that PDF file to their printer. They
wouldn't even have to look at it first, so there would be no additional
charges.

You may benefit by hiring a graphic artist to do this work, because it's
quite clear that you don't understand the process at all.

--
best regards,

Neil

[Disclaimer: Cant do the time, ...]

Wolf K wrote:
[...]
A careful reading of previous threads bu Ultred Whoever suggests that he
is either unteachable or being deliberately obtuse. If it's the latter,
he's probably giggling every time he pulls in another fish.

Ding, ding! We *have* a winner! :-) c.q. :-(

Mr. Nymshifter wants to prevent or at least minimize the "layout work"
which his supplier charged him for. 'So', he asks everyone how to do
that, *except* his supplier. Why? Because his supplier would probably
give him the/an answer/solution and N. doesn't like answers/solutions.

He only likes 'problems' which he can stretch out forever. What N.
dislikes even more than answers/solutions, is people showing him the
errors of his ways. Then he can become real nasty and will lie, cheat,
belittle, insult, etc.. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Sofar, he's not been showing much of his nasty streaks in these
Windows groups. In the 'mobile' [1] groups, it's a complete different
kettle of fish, but of course he blames that on the audience, not on
himself.

[1] comp.mobile.android,alt.cellular, mostly crossposted to
misc.phone.mobile.iphones (to yank the chains of the "Apple
[Apologists|Babies]") or/and alt.cellular

Rodney Pont wrote:
On 29 Mar 2018 18:19:06 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Ragnusen Ultred wrote:
[...]
I'm limited by what formats with fonts Adobe Illustrator will accept.
DOC, PDF, RTF, GIF, TIF, etc., are accepted, but not PowerPoint.

I'm a total noob on this (see my other response), but wouldn't it be
trivial to save the *visible* respresentation which you have - i.e. the
PPT 'slide' on your display - to GIF or TIF (or PDF)?

Or use the Windows snipping tool?

Yes, that's what I - implicitly - meant. I.e. 'slide' is on the OP's
display, use Snipping Tool to save it to JPEG or GIF and - if needed -
use any tool - for example IrfanView - to convert to TIFF.

[N.B. J. P. Gilliver rightly brought up the vector (PDF) versus raster
(GIF/TIFF) aspect, but the OP confirmed that for his roadsigns that's
not an issue.]