Is it worth it?

I downloaded the then new Win10 over the top of Win7 as advised by
MSoft.

Some say it's better to start over with a new copy of Win10 on a fresh
HDD and then transfer programs & data across to this.

Is this so, and why?

I,m having so much bother with stalled updates and suprise shutdowns
I,m desperate to try anything!

Has anyone else done this, and has it improved performance?

Peter Jason wrote:
I downloaded the then new Win10 over the top of Win7 as advised by
MSoft.

Some say it's better to start over with a new copy of Win10 on a fresh
HDD and then transfer programs & data across to this.

Is this so, and why?

I,m having so much bother with stalled updates and suprise shutdowns
I,m desperate to try anything!

Has anyone else done this, and has it improved performance?

My small observation would be

C:\Windows.old

When you install Win10 over Win7, the old OS is
thrown out. Within days, one way or another, Windows.old
gets deleted. The old OS is gone.

So that's the plus side of the coin.

The minus side is called "Migration".

Some settings from the registry might be kept. I
don't know how that part works.

I see signs that programs (via saved MSI files) or drivers,
might be getting re-installed. Windows.old keeps a Program Files
folder, implying programs are getting re-installed or something.

The Migration part of things leaves a few more questions.

*******

Doing a clean install ("nuke and pave") certainly is
attractive from a "what do we know" point of view. But
if you install exactly the same driver files, I don't
necessarily think your "phantom shutdown" problem will
go away. But it's an easy test to do - just backup your
current setup, so you can restore it if the clean install fails
to work any better.

*******

The last time I did a repair install, it was because an update
got into an indeterminate loop (during PendMoves) and refused
to show a "percent done" number. So after sitting there for an hour,
I gave it the finger, and did a repair install after the dust settled.

When I was fighting with a problem on this machine for
a solid year (where it turned out the root cause
was actually bad RAM), yes, I did try a clean install,
to no good effect. The bad RAM was located near some buffer
area that Windows uses. Which leads to crash-ola at
the most inconvenient times. It was a Windows Memory Test
run, that spotted a problem. I'm not convinced though,
that all the problems on this setup are gone.

Paul

On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 19:19:07 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Peter Jason wrote:
I downloaded the then new Win10 over the top of Win7 as advised by
MSoft.

Some say it's better to start over with a new copy of Win10 on a fresh
HDD and then transfer programs & data across to this.

Is this so, and why?

I,m having so much bother with stalled updates and suprise shutdowns
I,m desperate to try anything!

Has anyone else done this, and has it improved performance?

My small observation would be

C:\Windows.old

When you install Win10 over Win7, the old OS is
thrown out. Within days, one way or another, Windows.old
gets deleted. The old OS is gone.

So that's the plus side of the coin.

The minus side is called "Migration".

Some settings from the registry might be kept. I
don't know how that part works.

I see signs that programs (via saved MSI files) or drivers,
might be getting re-installed. Windows.old keeps a Program Files
folder, implying programs are getting re-installed or something.

The Migration part of things leaves a few more questions.

*******

Doing a clean install ("nuke and pave") certainly is
attractive from a "what do we know" point of view. But
if you install exactly the same driver files, I don't
necessarily think your "phantom shutdown" problem will
go away. But it's an easy test to do - just backup your
current setup, so you can restore it if the clean install fails
to work any better.

*******

The last time I did a repair install, it was because an update
got into an indeterminate loop (during PendMoves) and refused
to show a "percent done" number. So after sitting there for an hour,
I gave it the finger, and did a repair install after the dust settled.

When I was fighting with a problem on this machine for
a solid year (where it turned out the root cause
was actually bad RAM), yes, I did try a clean install,
to no good effect. The bad RAM was located near some buffer
area that Windows uses. Which leads to crash-ola at
the most inconvenient times. It was a Windows Memory Test
run, that spotted a problem. I'm not convinced though,
that all the problems on this setup are gone.

Paul


Thanks, can I just try removing RAM sections to test this? I have 3 x
4GB RAM.

On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 19:19:07 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Peter Jason wrote:
I downloaded the then new Win10 over the top of Win7 as advised by
MSoft.

Some say it's better to start over with a new copy of Win10 on a fresh
HDD and then transfer programs & data across to this.

Is this so, and why?

I,m having so much bother with stalled updates and suprise shutdowns
I,m desperate to try anything!

Has anyone else done this, and has it improved performance?

My small observation would be

C:\Windows.old

When you install Win10 over Win7, the old OS is
thrown out. Within days, one way or another, Windows.old
gets deleted. The old OS is gone.

So that's the plus side of the coin.

The minus side is called "Migration".

Some settings from the registry might be kept. I
don't know how that part works.

I see signs that programs (via saved MSI files) or drivers,
might be getting re-installed. Windows.old keeps a Program Files
folder, implying programs are getting re-installed or something.

The Migration part of things leaves a few more questions.

*******

Doing a clean install ("nuke and pave") certainly is
attractive from a "what do we know" point of view. But
if you install exactly the same driver files, I don't
necessarily think your "phantom shutdown" problem will
go away. But it's an easy test to do - just backup your
current setup, so you can restore it if the clean install fails
to work any better.

*******

The last time I did a repair install, it was because an update
got into an indeterminate loop (during PendMoves) and refused
to show a "percent done" number. So after sitting there for an hour,
I gave it the finger, and did a repair install after the dust settled.

When I was fighting with a problem on this machine for
a solid year (where it turned out the root cause
was actually bad RAM), yes, I did try a clean install,
to no good effect. The bad RAM was located near some buffer
area that Windows uses. Which leads to crash-ola at
the most inconvenient times. It was a Windows Memory Test
run, that spotted a problem. I'm not convinced though,
that all the problems on this setup are gone.

Paul



My situation is quite dire...
https://postimg.cc/image/m963eoh6z/

The machine requires restart several times a day.

On Fri, 13 Apr 2018 07:48:40 +1000, Peter Jason wrote:

I downloaded the then new Win10 over the top of Win7 as advised by
MSoft.

Some say it's better to start over with a new copy of Win10 on a fresh
HDD and then transfer programs & data across to this.

Is this so, and why?



Many people will tell you a clean installation is better than an
upgrade, regardless of what versions of Windows you are talking about.

I disagree. If you go back a lot of years, it was true, but with
modern versions it no longer is. My view is that it's best to try an
upgrade, since it's much easier than a clean installation. Only if you
have problems you can't solve is it a good idea to revert to a clean
installation.

And by the way, you say "... then transfer programs & data across to
this." Yes, you can transfer data, but it is *not* possible to
transfer programs. Programs have to be reinstalled from their original
media.

On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 16:51:26 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Apr 2018 07:48:40 +1000, Peter Jason wrote:

I downloaded the then new Win10 over the top of Win7 as advised by
MSoft.

Some say it's better to start over with a new copy of Win10 on a fresh
HDD and then transfer programs & data across to this.

Is this so, and why?



Many people will tell you a clean installation is better than an
upgrade, regardless of what versions of Windows you are talking about.

I disagree. If you go back a lot of years, it was true, but with
modern versions it no longer is. My view is that it's best to try an
upgrade, since it's much easier than a clean installation. Only if you
have problems you can't solve is it a good idea to revert to a clean
installation.

And by the way, you say "... then transfer programs & data across to
this." Yes, you can transfer data, but it is *not* possible to
transfer programs. Programs have to be reinstalled from their original
media.
Yes thanks, this is what I meant to say.

"Peter Jason" wrote in message
...

I downloaded the then new Win10 over the top of Win7 as advised by
MSoft.

Some say it's better to start over with a new copy of Win10 on a fresh
HDD and then transfer programs & data across to this.

Is this so, and why?

I,m having so much bother with stalled updates and suprise shutdowns
I,m desperate to try anything!

Has anyone else done this, and has it improved performance?

It would be good to know what version of Win10 you are on - 1607, 1703, 1709
and what is the make and model of the system and the model printer.

Just as a reminder, last Tuesday was "Patch Tuesday" for Win10 and most
likely you were due about 65 updates (minimum) and more if you have MS Word.
Your post shows 14 update problems and 26 print service errors with others
but based on experience, lets clean out the rats nets first.

Before you try the nuke option of reinstalling Win10 (and you may have to),
try using the built-in Troubleshooting tool Win10 has. I have found that it
is very effective but not 100%. It sounds and looks like you've had update
problems for awhile. Something you need to understand that even though some
errors may be categorized as Critical, they are not and fall under the
premise that the operating system can't determine what is wrong so it throws
a critical error. Even a 100% clean system will throw errors when there
really are none so don't get to excited about them.

You may have a hardware problem but I'm guessing that you have a print
driver problem for one and an update problem.

In your search bar, enter - troubleshooting - and in the window that
opens, select Troubleshooting then select the Windows Update troubleshooter.

It will start then most likely a window will pop-up asking you to select the
Administrator mode. Just click on it.

While it's running you may see several windows pop-up asking to accept a fix
action - just click on each window to acknowledge that you want it to do
that.

In the end, you will see a summary saying it did or did not fix something.
Acknowledge that window and reboot the system. Important to reboot so it
doesn't start looking for updates again until after the reboot.

Now if one of the fix actions shows it was not fixed (very probable) and
after doing the reboot, do the whole process again. Most likely everything
that needs to be cleaned out will be on the 2nd go-around. Reboot again.

Now select Settings and click on the Windows Update box and let it search
for any updates and let it complete. This will take some time depending on
your internet connection.


--


Bob S.

On 4/12/2018 7:40 PM, Peter Jason wrote:
On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 19:19:07 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Peter Jason wrote:
I downloaded the then new Win10 over the top of Win7 as advised by
MSoft.

Some say it's better to start over with a new copy of Win10 on a fresh
HDD and then transfer programs & data across to this.

Is this so, and why?

I,m having so much bother with stalled updates and suprise shutdowns
I,m desperate to try anything!

Has anyone else done this, and has it improved performance?

My small observation would be

C:\Windows.old

When you install Win10 over Win7, the old OS is
thrown out. Within days, one way or another, Windows.old
gets deleted. The old OS is gone.

So that's the plus side of the coin.

The minus side is called "Migration".

Some settings from the registry might be kept. I
don't know how that part works.

I see signs that programs (via saved MSI files) or drivers,
might be getting re-installed. Windows.old keeps a Program Files
folder, implying programs are getting re-installed or something.

The Migration part of things leaves a few more questions.

*******

Doing a clean install ("nuke and pave") certainly is
attractive from a "what do we know" point of view. But
if you install exactly the same driver files, I don't
necessarily think your "phantom shutdown" problem will
go away. But it's an easy test to do - just backup your
current setup, so you can restore it if the clean install fails
to work any better.

*******

The last time I did a repair install, it was because an update
got into an indeterminate loop (during PendMoves) and refused
to show a "percent done" number. So after sitting there for an hour,
I gave it the finger, and did a repair install after the dust settled.

When I was fighting with a problem on this machine for
a solid year (where it turned out the root cause
was actually bad RAM), yes, I did try a clean install,
to no good effect. The bad RAM was located near some buffer
area that Windows uses. Which leads to crash-ola at
the most inconvenient times. It was a Windows Memory Test
run, that spotted a problem. I'm not convinced though,
that all the problems on this setup are gone.

Paul



My situation is quite dire...
https://postimg.cc/image/m963eoh6z/

The machine requires restart several times a day.

Have you tried to run the Update troubleshooter, or any of the windows
troubleshooters? Click MSIcon lower left end of toolbar and type in
Troubleshooter.

If you have had numerous failures, you may have an extremely large
/windows/softwaredistribution folder. If so delete all of the files
that the system will let you delete from this folder; run the Update
Troubleshooter; and let it complete. Then try to reinstall the updates.




--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre

On 12/04/2018 22:48, Peter Jason wrote:

Has anyone else done this, and has it improved performance?

I have and I always recommend people to "start from scratch".
Performance does improve and installing Windows s the easy bit including
Updates. You need to allow Microsoft to install generic drivers and
you'll be surprised how good they are. They always work better then
drivers from the OEMs. I have recently installed updates while
installing Windows and surprisingly it is better to do it that way. You
need internet connection while doing it so make sure the machine is
plugged to the line. It is fast and it takes maximum 25 Minutes!!
including all updates for bare/plain Windows.

Make sure you delete the partitions from HD when installing Windows;
Also make sure any other secondary drives are disabled to avoid /*Error
0x80300024*/.

If you are still using old BIOS system then you know you are limited to
2TB HD otherwise on new machines you need GPT (NOT MBR) to ensure
unlimited HD space.

Apart from this, make a list of Apps you are going to install and also
make sure you have the relevant DVDs and serial numbers.

Also make sure CNN is running on you TV to keep listening to their hate
commentary about Trump.


/--- This email has been checked for viruses by
Windows Defender software.
//https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/comprehensive-security/


--
With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

In article ,
says...

I downloaded the then new Win10 over the top of Win7 as advised by
MSoft.

Some say it's better to start over with a new copy of Win10 on a fresh
HDD and then transfer programs & data across to this.

Is this so, and why?

I,m having so much bother with stalled updates and suprise shutdowns
I,m desperate to try anything!

Has anyone else done this, and has it improved performance?

I did the same thing - 10 atop 7. After just a little
fiddling the installation succeded and everything seemed
to be ok. This was the first time that I've upgraded
Windows where I did NOT have to reinstall all the apps.
They worked. Some drivers needed updating but that was
minor.

However...since then it's been nothing but trouble with
updates to newer versions. I spent a lot of time with MS
haha support and they threw in the towel. (As one who
spent a career writing software it absolutely mystifies me
that MS is unable to tell me WHY updates fail. They can't
even be sure if it's hardware or software. Where I worked,
if people had developed code like that they'd be looking
for work...)

So I finally took a deep breath and did a from-scratch
install. It worked without a hitch. ...except now, no
subsequent version updates have succeeded. The "Tuesday
updates" seem to work ok, but the major ones ALL fail.

On 13/4/2018 5:48 AM, Peter Jason wrote:
I downloaded the then new Win10 over the top of Win7 as advised by
MSoft.

Some say it's better to start over with a new copy of Win10 on a fresh
HDD and then transfer programs & data across to this.

Is this so, and why?

I,m having so much bother with stalled updates and suprise shutdowns
I,m desperate to try anything!

Do a clean install of Win 10 after backing your data. A major update
usually has problems.

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
ä¸�借貸! ä¸�è©�騙! ä¸�è³*錢! ä¸�æ�´äº¤! ä¸�打交! ä¸�打劫! ä¸�自殺! ä¸�求神! 請考慮綜æ�´
(CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa

On Fri, 13 Apr 2018 09:40:22 +1000, Peter Jason wrote:

My situation is quite dire...
https://postimg.cc/image/m963eoh6z/

The machine requires restart several times a day.

I don't see anything in your screen grab that tells me your machine
requires a restart, let alone several times a day. You may have
mentioned it earlier in the thread, and if so, I apologize.

If it's simply the presence of "errors" in the Event Logs, some of them
classified as critical, I would say so what? When the fraudsters call,
pretending to be from Microsoft, and they point out that your machine
has "errors" to get you to cough up a credit card number, it's all
smoke. Every PC has errors. 99% of the time they don't mean anything
significant.

On 4/12/2018 4:24 PM, Peter Jason wrote:
On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 19:19:07 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Peter Jason wrote:
I downloaded the then new Win10 over the top of Win7 as advised by
MSoft.

Some say it's better to start over with a new copy of Win10 on a fresh
HDD and then transfer programs & data across to this.

Is this so, and why?

I,m having so much bother with stalled updates and suprise shutdowns
I,m desperate to try anything!

Has anyone else done this, and has it improved performance?

My small observation would be

C:\Windows.old

When you install Win10 over Win7, the old OS is
thrown out. Within days, one way or another, Windows.old
gets deleted. The old OS is gone.

So that's the plus side of the coin.

The minus side is called "Migration".

Some settings from the registry might be kept. I
don't know how that part works.

I see signs that programs (via saved MSI files) or drivers,
might be getting re-installed. Windows.old keeps a Program Files
folder, implying programs are getting re-installed or something.

The Migration part of things leaves a few more questions.

*******

Doing a clean install ("nuke and pave") certainly is
attractive from a "what do we know" point of view. But
if you install exactly the same driver files, I don't
necessarily think your "phantom shutdown" problem will
go away. But it's an easy test to do - just backup your
current setup, so you can restore it if the clean install fails
to work any better.

*******

The last time I did a repair install, it was because an update
got into an indeterminate loop (during PendMoves) and refused
to show a "percent done" number. So after sitting there for an hour,
I gave it the finger, and did a repair install after the dust settled.

When I was fighting with a problem on this machine for
a solid year (where it turned out the root cause
was actually bad RAM), yes, I did try a clean install,
to no good effect. The bad RAM was located near some buffer
area that Windows uses. Which leads to crash-ola at
the most inconvenient times. It was a Windows Memory Test
run, that spotted a problem. I'm not convinced though,
that all the problems on this setup are gone.

Paul


Thanks, can I just try removing RAM sections to test this? I have 3 x
4GB RAM.

Paul will have better info on current ram configuration.
I never liked odd numbers of simms.
I seem to have fewer problems when I have even numbers of IDENTICAL ram
simms.

Ram errors can be subtle.
I had a laptop that worked fine.
I added a simm.
It started crashing randomly.
Bad simm...right?
Well no.
Turns out that the original simm had a bad bit.
It was located in the area where the OS assigned a frame buffer.
Likely there was a bad pixel in the display, but it caused no problems.
Memory tests said no errors.
When I added the second good simm, windows moved the frame buffer
and the bad bit ended up in the program area. That was causing the
crashing. I pulled out a lot of hair on that one.

Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2018 09:40:22 +1000, Peter Jason wrote:

My situation is quite dire...
https://postimg.cc/image/m963eoh6z/

The machine requires restart several times a day.

I don't see anything in your screen grab that tells me your machine
requires a restart, let alone several times a day. You may have
mentioned it earlier in the thread, and if so, I apologize.

If it's simply the presence of "errors" in the Event Logs, some of them
classified as critical, I would say so what? When the fraudsters call,
pretending to be from Microsoft, and they point out that your machine
has "errors" to get you to cough up a credit card number, it's all
smoke. Every PC has errors. 99% of the time they don't mean anything
significant.

The "Reliability Monitor" is another place to look.
Cortana can find it.

Paul

Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
On 13/4/2018 5:48 AM, Peter Jason wrote:
I downloaded the then new Win10 over the top of Win7 as advised by
MSoft.

Some say it's better to start over with a new copy of Win10 on a fresh
HDD and then transfer programs & data across to this.

Is this so, and why?

I,m having so much bother with stalled updates and suprise shutdowns
I,m desperate to try anything!

Do a clean install of Win 10 after backing your data. A major update
usually has problems.


And for the record, you *love* to reinstall, and you should
have pointed that out :-)

I *hate* to reinstall, but if that's what it takes... I do it.
For me, reinstalling is admitting defeat.

If you have malware on a machine, the decision is easy.

But if the root cause is a hardware problem, you're only
fooling yourself by reinstalling over and over again.
And *that's* why I don't rush the reinstall process. I
want to make sure that it isn't hardware first, if I can.

If I have to reinstall, I only want to do it one time.
Not like it was "fun" or something.

Paul