What was wrong with the XP Start Menu that they had to change it?

| What was wrong with the WinXP Start Menu operation?
|

With Win9x and XP Microsoft was trying tohelp you get
at and use your software.

With later versions of windows Microsoft is trying
to sell you stuff and services. They don't want you to
think of installed software as what you do with a
computer.

Per Mayayana:
With Win9x and XP Microsoft was trying tohelp you get
at and use your software.

With later versions of windows Microsoft is trying
to sell you stuff and services. They don't want you to
think of installed software as what you do with a
computer.

I think we may have a winner....
--
Pete Cresswell

Mayayana wrote:

With Win9x and XP Microsoft was trying tohelp you get
at and use your software.

With later versions of windows Microsoft is trying
to sell you stuff and services. They don't want you to
think of installed software as what you do with a
computer.

If you'd made the distinction for Win8 and Win10, I'd agree, but sorry I
don't see much in Vista and Win7 that's trying to encourage paid online
services.

| If you'd made the distinction for Win8 and Win10, I'd agree, but sorry I
| don't see much in Vista and Win7 that's trying to encourage paid online
| services.
|

No, but it's been heading gradually in that
direction. They've been pushing services
since 1998 with Active Desktop imposing Disney
ads on the Win98 Desktop through the "Channel
Bar". And remember Passport? In XP Microsoft
tried to trick people into thinking they needed
an MS "passport" ID:

https://epic.org/privacy/consumer/MS_complaint.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/25/te...ss/25COMP.html

It was very similar to the Microsoft ID scam now.
And they similarly hoped to use Passport as a
middleman scam with online services. (They just
didn't have their own services at that point, aside
from tidbits like Hotmail.) Then there was Hailstorm --
the "storm" of services that never were and flopped
faster than the SPOT watch.

But I agree with you on one notable aspect: The
addition of Metro was a radical development that
imposed services on top of Windows, concurrent
with MS officially being redefined, in their own
marketing and press releases, from a software
company to a "services and devices" company.

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 09:45:19 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| If you'd made the distinction for Win8 and Win10, I'd agree, but sorry I
| don't see much in Vista and Win7 that's trying to encourage paid online
| services.

No, but it's been heading gradually in that
direction. They've been pushing services
since 1998 with Active Desktop imposing Disney
ads on the Win98 Desktop through the "Channel
Bar". And remember Passport? In XP Microsoft
tried to trick people into thinking they needed
an MS "passport" ID:

It has been longer than that. I remember reading an article back in
the early '90s (back when NT 3.0 was the big news) about how Microsoft
saw "software as a service" as its ultimate goal. I'm not sure if, at
the time, they originally intended this only for corporations or if
they believed that they could get consumers to buy into it too.
They've been making incremental steps in that direction - boiling the
frog slowly - ever since.

With the rise of smartphones and tablets, and the potential threat
from ChromeOS laptops, PC sales are no longer as strong as they were
five or ten years ago. Not only does this reduction hit Microsoft in
the pocketbook, but it also threatens their control of the software
ecosystem. Microsoft is trying to assure themselves of continued
sources of income.

To wit, with Windows 10 Microsoft is making major pushes in three
directions:

1) creating a new revenue stream through the collection (and ultimate
resale) of huge amounts of customer data: when and where you use your
PC, what hardware you have, what software you are using, what websites
you visit, what you are typing into apps, your pictures, your files,
everything.

2) moving strongly in the direction of Software as a Service. They've
had already captured a significant chunk of the market with
"Office365" and their "Software Assurance" programs (not to mention
"XBox Live" on their consoles); we've seen another shot across the bow
with their monthly fee for Solitaire (of all things!) and I do not
doubt this is just the start of a new salvo. It's quite possible that
Windows itself will remain "free" for the forseen future but they have
made sure the infrastructure is in place to lock-down applications to
SaS.

3) Further trying to lock down applications to their app-store so they
can not only receive income from every Windows application installde
but also lock-down the application ecosystem to only "authorized"
apps. There is, of course, still a lot of inertia from the "old way"
of buying and installing applications that Microsoft has to overcome
before this agenda bears any fruit but we've seen that Microsoft has
the resources to play a long game.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
news
Mayayana wrote:

With Win9x and XP Microsoft was trying tohelp you get
at and use your software.

With later versions of windows Microsoft is trying
to sell you stuff and services. They don't want you to
think of installed software as what you do with a
computer.

If you'd made the distinction for Win8 and Win10, I'd agree, but sorry I
don't see much in Vista and Win7 that's trying to encourage paid online
services.


Their objective is to make CORPORATE clients upgrade. Vista, Win98 were home
projects - no client/server.
The REAL money is in selling Large corporations Outlook Server, client
licenses.
Win NT-2000 got them there. then - users happy - no upgrade.
Announce XP, drop support for 2000 - another cycle starts.
BUT back with advacnes in a few years, corp could justify buying new
hardware.
AFTER XP, no need. From corp ciewpoint - "if it aint broke, don;t fix it"
Revenues down...hmmm Ipads work - lets try that... = Win 8
Corp don't go for it.

OK, We'll COMBINE social (W8) and traditional interfaces (W7). If corp don't
like it, they can remove the shortcuts to give W7 desktop appearance.

Now behind the scenes they'll tweak the apps.
Give away W10 and go to a client server model - monthly fee to USE it . (
Office 365 etc)
THAT's where the money is. It's an annuity.
IF it works. YOU become the income, not the " new PC"

http://blogs.technet.com/b/in_the_cl...s&MC=CloudPlat

Identity will play a much more important role than ever before in this
mobile-first, cloud first world. Think about it for a minute: When we talk
about mobility we are really talking about mobility of humans and the human
experience – not just the device. This all centers around identity.







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"Spalls Hurgenson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 09:45:19 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| If you'd made the distinction for Win8 and Win10, I'd agree, but sorry I
| don't see much in Vista and Win7 that's trying to encourage paid online
| services.

No, but it's been heading gradually in that
direction. They've been pushing services
since 1998 with Active Desktop imposing Disney
ads on the Win98 Desktop through the "Channel
Bar". And remember Passport? In XP Microsoft
tried to trick people into thinking they needed
an MS "passport" ID:

It has been longer than that. I remember reading an article back in
the early '90s (back when NT 3.0 was the big news) about how Microsoft
saw "software as a service" as its ultimate goal. I'm not sure if, at
the time, they originally intended this only for corporations or if
they believed that they could get consumers to buy into it too.
They've been making incremental steps in that direction - boiling the
frog slowly - ever since.

With the rise of smartphones and tablets, and the potential threat
from ChromeOS laptops, PC sales are no longer as strong as they were
five or ten years ago. Not only does this reduction hit Microsoft in
the pocketbook, but it also threatens their control of the software
ecosystem. Microsoft is trying to assure themselves of continued
sources of income.

To wit, with Windows 10 Microsoft is making major pushes in three
directions:

1) creating a new revenue stream through the collection (and ultimate
resale) of huge amounts of customer data: when and where you use your
PC, what hardware you have, what software you are using, what websites
you visit, what you are typing into apps, your pictures, your files,
everything.

2) moving strongly in the direction of Software as a Service. They've
had already captured a significant chunk of the market with
"Office365" and their "Software Assurance" programs (not to mention
"XBox Live" on their consoles); we've seen another shot across the bow
with their monthly fee for Solitaire (of all things!) and I do not
doubt this is just the start of a new salvo. It's quite possible that
Windows itself will remain "free" for the forseen future but they have
made sure the infrastructure is in place to lock-down applications to
SaS.

3) Further trying to lock down applications to their app-store so they
can not only receive income from every Windows application installde
but also lock-down the application ecosystem to only "authorized"
apps. There is, of course, still a lot of inertia from the "old way"
of buying and installing applications that Microsoft has to overcome
before this agenda bears any fruit but we've seen that Microsoft has
the resources to play a long game.



re #1

"To wit, with Windows 10 Microsoft is making major pushes in three
directions:

1) creating a new revenue stream through the collection (and ultimate
resale) of huge amounts of customer data: when and where you use your PC,
what hardware you have, what software you are using, what websites
you visit, what you are typing into apps, your pictures, your files,
everything. "



I know there is "money in selling your info", but I've asked and NOONE that
I ask (aged 30's to 70's) BUYS anything from impulse pop-up ads etc, so
WHERE is the VALUE ? Anyone know ? Good examples ?

I see its "usefulness" in sites like Amazon... they remember that 18 months
ago that I bought something and show me things kinda related to it.. but
that's in house data . When I DO go online browsing/shopping for info I am
amazed that sometimes for weeks I will see ads for " that exact webcam" that
I was looking at but I HAVE to think that out of 1000 unrelated ads 1 person
might buy. at a .01% return on investment it doesn't seem useful - to me as
a BUYER of that info.
I have to be wrong ( it IS an odd year so I am due) but have never seen
where the cash comes from.






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- Bobb - wrote:

I know there is "money in selling your info", but I've asked and NOONE
that I ask (aged 30's to 70's) BUYS anything from impulse pop-up ads
etc, so WHERE is the VALUE ? Anyone know ? Good examples ?

Companies don't need such direct 1:1 evidence.

And they can use statistics to draw any conclusion
they might want.

It doesn't have to make sense, when it comes to advertising.

Why do print flyers still come to my door here ? Someone
believes there is a percentage of the population
who don't use computers. And those people need to be
served adverts. What's interesting here, is the adverts
are no longer grocery store focused. I see more adverts
in the flyers for durable goods. Like the local hardware
store might pay for a dozen pages. They have no way to
conclude that something I saw in that flyer increased
sales, but in the long term, maybe the company statistician
says it is true.

Paul

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 12:01:10 -0400, "- Bobb -"
wrote:

"Spalls Hurgenson" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 09:45:19 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:
directions:

1) creating a new revenue stream through the collection (and ultimate
resale) of huge amounts of customer data: when and where you use your PC,
what hardware you have, what software you are using, what websites
you visit, what you are typing into apps, your pictures, your files,
everything. "

I know there is "money in selling your info", but I've asked and NOONE that
I ask (aged 30's to 70's) BUYS anything from impulse pop-up ads etc, so
WHERE is the VALUE ? Anyone know ? Good examples ?

Remember, there is a difference between advertising and marketing, and
it's the latter which best utilizes this information.

Advertising is basically product information to help the customer
differentiate your product from the competitor. It is extremely
important, but generally a customer is already looking for your
product (or a similar product) by the time advertising becomes
necessary.

Marketing on the other hand is more than just putting product
information in front of the customer and expecting him to purchase
that item directly. It is equally "getting the name out there" so next
time you need a product, their product's name will bubble out of your
unconscious and subtly influence you to purchase their product over
that of the competition. It doesn't take much; it's why store brands
are never as successful against name brands, for instance.

It is also about creating a need for something you might not otherwise
think you need. Is there a huge demand for a watch that allows you to
share your heartbeat with your friends? No... but there is after
marketing gets done with it. All of a sudden its the hot new item to
have and people are buying it in the millions.

(Marketing and advertising are closely intertwined; an advert for an
automobile has half-naked sexy ladies on it in order to better market
the product to horny men for instance. )

But this sort of marketing works best if it is targetted. You don't
generally try to push product impressions of your new plastic baby
dolls to 45-year old men, for instance; that's best aimed at the 3-5
year old girls. For your marketing dollars to be most effective, you
want to aim your campaigns only at the subset of people who are
actually going to buy your product (it also creates an impression of
exclusivity, which is psychologically very powerful). Although we all
hold ourselves to be far too clever to ever be taken into the
psychological manipulations of Madison Avenue, the fact is that none
of us are immune. Marketing is extremely effective and it is why
producers of content are willing to pay millions and billions of
dollars for it.

This is where data-collection becomes very important; it is GOLD to
advertising and marketing firms, and the companies who gather or
control access to that sort of information can collect tremendous
amounts of money selling it.

And this is where Microsoft wants to position itself, right there next
to Google and Facebook. Everything we do with our computers passes
through their operating system - every picture we look at (and how
long we look at it), every web search we make, every email we write,
every document we read. It is an immense untapped cache of personal
information just waiting to be tapped, and Microsoft has finally
decided to start profiting off of it. Of course, they do so at a cost
to their customers (and the trust customers had for Microsoft) but who
cares about that when there's $$$$ to be made, right?