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#31
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 3:30:58 PM UTC-8, Mark Twain wrote:
I'm seeing most of the text grayed out with only a few sentences in black text. Strange. Robert I meant for that post only,.. of course. I usually see text in black Robert |
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#32
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
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#33
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
I was thinking about the size of the $91 Seasonic X ,. so I looked further and found this. It says it's compact, 125 MM. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...24&ignorebbr=1 What do you think? Robert Yes, I noticed that PSU. Did you notice it "looks weird" ? That's an SFX, not an ATX. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX#SFX "main difference is its reduced dimensions" It doesn't belong in the "power supply bay" of your computer. It's for another type of computer. Apparently, there are adapters for SFX to ATX. ******* So now you're back with the $91 one, which is an ATX. 07, 08, 10 $90, $70, $75 $91 6.3" 5.5" 6.3" 6.3" A lot of the candidates are the same size, which you should check via visual check with your scale. The 5.5" one, the housing can be a bit shorter, because all the wires on that one are fixed. (The cables don't unplug.) When the supplies are modular, it adds to the length of the casing. If you think this isn't going to work, you could shop for a lower power unit. If you have a Kill-O-Watt meter, you can do a total power measurement via the AC plug, and that establishes the ballpark for each machine. For example, I have a big video card in the Test Machine right now. The Kill-O-Watt (which is currently connected), reads 100W when the machine is idle. It reads 350W when Furmark is running. It measures around 200W when running Prime95. Those are examples of tests that heat stuff up. And based on that, I know roughly what size PSU that would work for the system. You have video cards which are similar to the cards I normally buy, and I could probably easily shave 100W off the size of PSU I buy today. I could go shop for a 500W one for example. If the casing is really too long to fit nicely, you can go through the next lower range of supplies and find one. Maybe it would be smaller. You want an "ATX" supply, for the 3.40" x 5.90" x 6.30" \___________/ Standard faceplate dimension The SFX, the holes in the faceplate of your computer, would not align with the threaded screw holes on the SFX. The ATX on the other hand, the screws line up, as well as in some computer designs, there is a short "lip" that sits underneath the computer case end of the PSU and holds it up. That takes some of the weight off the screws. ******* I tried the 500W tier, and didn't really like what I was seeing. Then I tried the 550W tier. OK, this one looks sweet. First I put your $91 one for comparison. Then the 550W one. You'll need to check the wire length. SeaSonic SS-650KM ATX12V 80PLUS GOLD $91 (+3.3V @ 25A, +5V @ 25A, 125W) +12V @ 54A, -12V @ 0.5A, +5VSB @ 3.0A Modular, Fully sleeved, colored wires 3.40" x 5.90" x 6.30" ATX connector (560mm) 20+4 pin 4 pin ATX12V connector (570mm) 1 8 pin EPS12V connector (570mm) 2 SATA (350mm+150mm) 2 SATA (440mm+150mm+150mm) 3 SATA (540mm+150mm+150mm) 3 5.25" Drive (350mm+150mm) 2 5.25" Drive (440mm+150mm+150mm) 3 5.25" Drive (540mm+150mm+150mm) 3 3.5" Drive (150mm 5.25-3.5" adaptor) 2 6+2 PCIe (580mm) 4 *** Seasonic SSR-550FM 80Plus Gold, Semi-Modular, ATX12V $66 (+3.3V @ 20A, +5V @ 20A, 100W) +12V @ 45A, -12V @ 0.3A, +5VSB @ 3A Half Modular, some sleeves, black ribbon wiring 3.39" x 5.91" x 5.51" (140mm) https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817151203 That's about as low as I'll go on the lower rails, and still buy a product. That's my exact limit on modern supplies. The length of the cables for the 550FM is here. http://www2.seasonic.com/product/focus-550-gold/ ATX connector (610mm) 20+4 pin 4/8 pin ATX12V connector (650mm) 1 SATA (450mm+120mm+120mm+120mm) 4 SATA (350mm+120mm) 2 5.25" Drive (450mm+120mm+120mm) 3 3.5" Drive (101mm 5.25-3.5" adaptor) 1 6+2 PCIe (675mm+75mm) 2 Paul |
#34
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
I was also thinking about it
fitting the case and found this as well: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...05&ignorebbr=1 what do you think? Which looks better to you? Robert |
#35
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
I found these pics of inside the 8500
from last year to give you an idea of the layout: http://i63.tinypic.com/72t069.jpg http://i65.tinypic.com/ffddok.jpg and the 780: http://i65.tinypic.com/2zdvr14.jpg Robert |
#36
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Let me see if you agree with this procedure;
if and when I do need to replace the PSU on either the 8500 or the 780. First I would connect all the cables to the power supply. I assume that there's only one socket/size per cable so I won't get them mixed up? Then one buy disconnect the corresponding cables and replace each one one by one then remove the old PSU and install the new one. I did this on the 8200 and never having done it before it seemed the safest way to do it. I have no idea what I'm unplugging and plugging into except the very basics. In passing, how do I to tell if I need to replace the PSU? When nothing happens when I turn it on? What do you think? Robert |
#37
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
I was also thinking about it fitting the case and found this as well: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...05&ignorebbr=1 what do you think? Which looks better to you? Robert When there is a "rebate card", you would only normally get "one rebate per customer" unless otherwise stated. That makes it $86.89 for the first supply and $106.89 for the second purchased supply (assumes this is a mail in rebate MIR). For "instant rebates" applied by the seller themselves, the rebate applies to every unit. If it's MIR, only the first unit qualifies. This is normally stated on the MIR PDF form you fill out ("one per customer"). MIR are a damn nuisance, and actually *reduce* sales because of the policy involved. Instant rebates are great. ******* I don't have a review. There's some chatter here about the model lineup of Seasonic, but the provided picture doesn't list everything they make. http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14942 There's a "cables tab" here for cable length. http://www2.seasonic.com/product/pri...ra-650-w-gold/ Seasonic SSR-650GD2 80PlusGold Modular ATX12V Compact 140 mm $107 (+3.3V@20A, +5V@20A, 100W) +12V@54A, , Modular, Half sleeved, black ribbon wire 3.39" x 5.91" x 5.51" (140mm long) \__________/ That would be similar to one of the other ones I listed, except the +12V is a bit higher rating. And part of the price, pays for the warranty. You would need to pay special attention to the warranty terms (sliding scale or complete replacement). To shorten the casing length, the rep on the JonnyGuru site claims they remove the electrolytics on the loom board, but that isn't necessary anyway. The output stage has a capacitor bank, on the regulation circuit. The motherboard has caps on its end, for bulk decoupling. The "cable caps" make the oscilloscope waveforms look nicer in reviews, but probably aren't absolutely necessary (unless they short-sheeted the design, somewhere else). It's funny to see the 100W rating on the low voltage rails, on a 650W unit, but rules are rules, and this one "just meets" my arbitrary rule for supply purchasing. I'd still buy it for the casing length, and the supply will be just fine with modern computers. Only one of my older computers (like your old RAMBUS machine), might I be a bit more concerned. I can refine numbers a lot closer, and "shave to the limits"... if I have a clamp-on ammeter and can measure the current unit. Then power supplies can be selected with more complete confidence. I *do* have some measurements from my older systems, which didn't have sleeved supplies, and I could get the clamp-on ammeter around the wires. My current systems on the other hand, the wires are sleeved, and the computer case is a mess, and I don't have any measurements on stuff from the last 5-8 years. You really need to do measurements like that, when doing things like mini-ITX with Pico supplies, as those never have margin and a build is "pretty custom". So when I made up my rule, it was an attempt to "guestimate" what would be sufficient. And my arbitrary selection is 20,20,100. Some of the units in the list, had 25,25,125 or so, which means "I can sleep nites and stay calm". I only have one system here, where I've measured and it hit 25 while gaming, and the situation is obscure enough to be a "special case" and not something to "enter the consciousness" today. Modern systems don't use the +5V rail for the CPU, and that's why it hit 25 amps. There's nothing wrong with your selection, if you like the price. It's got a SATA with four connectors, a SATA with two connectors, a Molex with three connectors and a floppy converter plugin. And as its fully modular, you only plug in the cables you need. Paul |
#38
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
Let me see if you agree with this procedure; if and when I do need to replace the PSU on either the 8500 or the 780. First I would connect all the cables to the power supply. I assume that there's only one socket/size per cable so I won't get them mixed up? Then one buy disconnect the corresponding cables and replace each one one by one then remove the old PSU and install the new one. I did this on the 8200 and never having done it before it seemed the safest way to do it. I have no idea what I'm unplugging and plugging into except the very basics. In passing, how do I to tell if I need to replace the PSU? When nothing happens when I turn it on? What do you think? Robert You replace the supply when: 1) Smell 2) Smoke 3) Flame 4) Obvious failure noises (crackling, still no smoke) 5) Herringbone pattern on analog NTSC TV set. 6) System crashes in BIOS or early in boot. 7) Not when getting weird crashes a couple times a day. Check RAM first. *Then* replace supply. The replacement method is: 1) Prepare drawing or digital camera pictures of current setup. When colored wires are involved, you can notice that "the yellow wire goes on the outside". It's comforting to be able to double check visually, on systems that still use colored wires. The new supplies with all that black wire, are a curse. 2) The cables for the most part, are "shape keyed". I have had posters though, who claim to have installed cables reversed (flip 180), in *spite* of the shapes. It must be nice to be that muscular. Someone managed (somehow) to put an ATX12V 2x4 on backwards, and blew a motherboard. I think they were pulling my leg :-) A motherboard can have a 2x4 ATX12V, with a 2x2 plugged into half the holes - for those, take a digital camera photo before disassembly, so you'll remember which holes they used. (If you don't do that, you have to consult the manual to verify pinouts and assure yourself you are doing it right.) There are quite a few standards for server type stuff, and if some of those entered the mix, you'd really want to do a lot of research before doing a build or repair. Consumer stuff you're working with, should be more self-explanatory. There are some 2x4 plugs that *should not* go into the motherboard. The total standards are screwed up enough, if you buy an obscure enough power supply (server), you could blow something. When they use yellow wires, it makes it easier to spot "troublemakers" before it is too late. 3) Originally, modular systems were not properly designed, and the wrong cables could go in certain holes. (Maybe the SATA cable would fit in the PCIe hole or something.) The modern modular ones are pretty good on providing visual cues. *Always keep the spare modular wires in the box they came in* *Do not mix modular wires from one brand with another* 4) You install cables "as you see stuff needing electricity". Your motherboard has two cables, minimum. One for main ATX, one for ATX12V to CPU. Some motherboards have an Aux 6 pin, like your RAMBUS might have used the Aux. Your modern systems will be the two cable minimum kind. This site can be consulted if you need "hints". http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucon...onnectors.html 5) The SATA wiring on the replacement will have different shaped cables than the original. A Seasonic with a four SATA on one cable, and a two SATA on the other, you're going to have to figure out whether that's enough for the SATA drive layout of the machine. One cable could run to the optical drive say, the second cable could run down to a vertically oriented SATA, then tie up the excess cable with a nylon wrap. 6) You can make visual rules as you go, like noting that the yellow wire goes on the outside, for storage. On new supplies with black ribbon, only the shapes on the ends, control orientation. As long as you kept sufficient documentation of the original machine condition, it's pretty hard to completely foul this up. The first time I did one on my own, I didn't have a digital camera, and I suffered for the shortage of pictures. I was scratching my head a bit on my first swapout. Paul |
#39
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
I don't really pay attention to rebates
etc. they're more pain than they're worth. It would be nice to just have a honest to goodness bargain of 20 % off or whatever without having to go through a rebate. I'm wondering if yours isn't the better choice did you read the last comment? "Did Seasonic just become the first manufacturer to sell the same power supplies under different names and for different prices to let you pay for the 2 years longer warranty? What do you think? Robert |
#40
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
I copy/pasted your post for reference
later when I need it. btw I had this FF update pop-up and thought it was just a regular update but it seems like Windows 10? So I didn't update FF. Is this how FF is going to look? So do I download? http://i65.tinypic.com/2dlt9xj.jpg http://i66.tinypic.com/8vuef5.jpg If I need to download FF which one? The solid green or the outline? Thanks, Robert |
#41
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
I don't really pay attention to rebates etc. they're more pain than they're worth. It would be nice to just have a honest to goodness bargain of 20 % off or whatever without having to go through a rebate. I'm wondering if yours isn't the better choice did you read the last comment? "Did Seasonic just become the first manufacturer to sell the same power supplies under different names and for different prices to let you pay for the 2 years longer warranty? What do you think? Robert Well, that's your job as the shopper, to pick the best one :-) I'm not a big warranty guy, myself. The only thing I use warranty for, is cars. You know, "gimme a new cam shaft", that sort of thing. Or "yes, I'd like new airbags please" :-) The airbags on my car were replaced twice, because I guess they weren't all that clever on the first replacement. But for small electronics, I'm not likely to make a warranty claim, or buy an extended warranty plan (the one all the electronics stores try to sell you). Even my current computer store tries to sell extended three year warranties. For a $100 item. I have had ATX power supplies fail. Some Antecs, plus the no-name one in my first PC. On hard drives, I haven't had a failure since the Maxtor 40GB drives died. And the price of hard drives is influenced by the warranty terms. That's why they switched from five year warranties, to shorter warranties on hard drives. Some people enter the serial number of a drive they bought, on the warranty page, and discover the drive has no warranty at all (serial number not in system). Paul |
#42
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
I copy/pasted your post for reference later when I need it. btw I had this FF update pop-up and thought it was just a regular update but it seems like Windows 10? So I didn't update FF. Is this how FF is going to look? So do I download? http://i65.tinypic.com/2dlt9xj.jpg http://i66.tinypic.com/8vuef5.jpg If I need to download FF which one? The solid green or the outline? Thanks, Robert "Download now" looks good to me. They probably both do the same thing. ******* Before you install, look in the Help menu for an "About" option. It will tell you what version of Firefox you are currently running. And that might give a hint as to why it's taken this route (of "begging" for an update). ******* The current scenario is like this. http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/ Dir 64.0/ --- the Release one you would want --+ Dir 64.0b10/ \ | Dir 64.0b11/ \ | Dir 64.0b12/ +--- Betas leading to 64_Release -----+ Dir 64.0b13/ / Dir 64.0b14/ / Dir 65.0b3/ These are lonely betas without the Dir 65.0b4/ release to cap them off. If you select a Beta file to install, you stay on the "Beta Update Stream". If you select the Release file (version 64.0), then you would be on the "Release Stream". There's no "b" on the end of the 64.0 one. If they upgraded 64.0, it could be 64.1 or 64.0.1 or whatever, still no "b". When you go to the web page as you have, that should be the Release one. Using the web page with the Download Now button should be perfectly safe and put you on the right path. I'm showing the "releases.mozilla.org" path above, so you can see a download page that "has everything". So if you had some other need, that page has everything since they began making them. I got on a beta release by mistake once, and just about every time I booted the computer, Firefox wanted to update itself. What a pain. Once the new one is installed, you can do "About" from the Help and check the new version number. And see how many release versions that you've jumped. Paul |
#43
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
I think I'll go with your selection:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817151203 Thanks, Robert |
#44
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
I went to help and click About Firefox to
see which version I had and this popped up: http://i67.tinypic.com/xckjtf.jpg So restarted the computer http://i64.tinypic.com/2akfi8y.jpg http://i64.tinypic.com/2hxou8p.jpg Robert |
#45
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Now that we've selected the PSU,
I was thinking about getting another APC Surge Arrest like the one I currently have, just in case it goes out. https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/produ...-outlet/P-PRO8 What do you think? I do get an abnormal amount of outages here. When it rains or its windy the power lines go out. As I said, my outside box is fine now; Although as added protection I have (3) heavy plastic bags over it to keep it dry but it's the power lines or transformers or whatever that go out. Last time, I had 4 outages in a row. I wish I had the $$$$ to go solar,. I live in the desert so it would be perfect. Thoughts/Suggestions? Robert |
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