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Netwrok quirk



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 23rd 20, 04:45 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
pjp[_11_]
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Posts: 100
Default Netwrok quirk


Network quirk ...

Everytime I start one of my Win10 pro pc's (I5, 8gb Ram) and try to
access the ethernet I get an error and option to run troubleshooter.
Troubleshooter runs and comes back stating nothing it can find is any
poblem etc. I close dialog box and network works fine.

Any clue what the troubleshooter might be doing without even knowing it?
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  #2  
Old August 23rd 20, 06:23 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Char Jackson
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Posts: 10,449
Default Netwrok quirk

On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 12:45:58 -0300, pjp
wrote:


Network quirk ...

Everytime I start one of my Win10 pro pc's (I5, 8gb Ram) and try to
access the ethernet I get an error and option to run troubleshooter.
Troubleshooter runs and comes back stating nothing it can find is any
poblem etc. I close dialog box and network works fine.

Any clue what the troubleshooter might be doing without even knowing it?


Try to prevent the troubleshooter from running so that you have a chance to
see what the problem is and fix it properly.

  #3  
Old August 23rd 20, 06:49 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
R.Wieser
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Posts: 1,302
Default Netwrok quirk

pjp,

Any clue what the troubleshooter might be doing without
even knowing it?


Have you already checked what happens when you just wait a bit and than
dismiss that dialog (read: /not/ run the troubleshooter program) ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


  #4  
Old August 23rd 20, 07:12 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
knuttle
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Posts: 262
Default Netwrok quirk

On 8/23/2020 11:45 AM, pjp wrote:

Network quirk ...

Everytime I start one of my Win10 pro pc's (I5, 8gb Ram) and try to
access the ethernet I get an error and option to run troubleshooter.
Troubleshooter runs and comes back stating nothing it can find is any
poblem etc. I close dialog box and network works fine.

Any clue what the troubleshooter might be doing without even knowing it?

Exactly what error are you seeing. If not seeing an error code, exactly
what happens.

Did this start with an upgrade to a program or the OS?
Did you add a new program?
Have you change the network settings or added to or subtracted equipment
from the network?
  #5  
Old August 23rd 20, 08:38 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Peter Johnson[_2_]
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Posts: 50
Default Netwrok quirk

On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 12:45:58 -0300, pjp
wrote:


Network quirk ...

Everytime I start one of my Win10 pro pc's (I5, 8gb Ram) and try to
access the ethernet I get an error and option to run troubleshooter.
Troubleshooter runs and comes back stating nothing it can find is any
poblem etc. I close dialog box and network works fine.

Any clue what the troubleshooter might be doing without even knowing it?


Go into device manager and delete the drivers for the network
interface. Reboot and let windows detect the device and reinstall the
drivers.
  #6  
Old August 23rd 20, 10:23 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 10,881
Default Netwrok quirk

pjp wrote:

Network quirk ...

Everytime I start one of my Win10 pro pc's (I5, 8gb Ram) and try to
access the ethernet I get an error and option to run troubleshooter.
Troubleshooter runs and comes back stating nothing it can find is any
poblem etc. I close dialog box and network works fine.

Any clue what the troubleshooter might be doing without even knowing
it?


Sorry, "error" does not say WHAT is the error message. Does it say
anything other than "error"? By your description, the troubleshooter
does not appear until after you attempt network access, but no mention
how long after you login to see the desktop for when you try to access
the Internet. Presumably "everytime I start" means the computer was
powered off, you powered on, saw the desktop, and immediately tried to
do some networking. No mention if you configured Windows to require
Ctrl+Alt+Del to login, configured Windows to show a login screen
requiring you to spend a short time entering your password, or if you
configured Windows to auto-login. Loading services and startup programs
takes a while. Some startup programs don't load until you after login,
not when Windows starts; i.e., they are per-user startup entries.

When you first see the desktop appear does NOT mean the computer is
ready. Not everything comes up at the same time, there are services to
start (and a request to start them is just a request, and they take time
to load), plus you probably have startup programs that consume CPU
cycles. The computer is probably busy for awhile after the desktop
appears, so the network takes a bit longer than you expect to become
ready by triggering off the appearance of the desktop.

As a test, restart Windows and wait 2 minutes after seeing the desktop
to see if you still get the unidentified error when you try to use the
network. If that works okay for, say, 5 times then restart Windows and
wait 1 minute before using the network. If that works okay for, say, 5
times, then reduce your wait after a Windows restart to 30 seconds. You
can proceed further to see when the problem crops up for you to know how
long after seeing the desktop before the networking is actually ready.

Disabling startup programs would likely result in the computer becoming
fully ready more soon after you see the desktop appear, plus it would be
a good cleanup measure to decide just what you really need to load when
you login.

If waiting (and testing how long you need to wait) after seeing the
desktop does not help -- that is, no matter how long you wait the
troubleshooter appears with some message when you first try to access
the Internet -- we could look in Event Viewer to see if an event got
registered there that is relevant to the error. But that's a bit more
digging deeper than may be necessary than, say, you having to wait 10
seconds after seeing the desktop appear.

Are you using security software other than Windows Defender? Some
anti-virus programs can be configured to not allow network connections
until they have fully loaded, like to ensure their transparent proxy has
been started and is ready to intercept and interrogate your network
traffic. Temporary disable your anti-virus (which must last through a
reboot), and restart Windows (without the AV) to see if the problem goes
away. If so, see if there is a setting in the AV to not block network
connections until the AV fully loads.


*_Do NOT allow auto-update of drivers by Windows Update_*

Do you allow Windows 10 to automatically update your hardware drivers?
Very bad idea. Sometimes the hardware identification is wrong, so you
get the wrong driver, especially if versions of hardware within the same
model were available, and drivers changed because different hardware
versions used different hardware, like a change in a controller chip.
New drivers might fix bugs, but new code means new bugs. After all, if
they got it wrong before and they made a fix doesn't mean they got it
right this time and nothing new went wrong. Constantly changing drivers
can lead to instability or new problems. Don't let Windows update the
drivers. You decide when, and if, you feel a new driver addresses some
issues you are experiencing and whether the changes apply to you at all.
Often video drivers, for example, will make changes to accomodate new
video games, but at the expense of compatibility with old video games.

Win+R (command line) - run "SystemPropertiesAdvanced.exe"
Hardware tab - Device Installation settings - No.

"Apps" also means drivers, not just ancilliary programs used to provide
a user interface to hardware configuration.

It's bad enough that Microsoft forces changes in the state of your
computer by pushing software updates without your permission and with
little control other than postponing them for a short time (for Home
edition which presumably you have but did not identify). Don't let
Microsoft also commit surgery on the interface between the OS and the
hardware. YOU should decide if and when that is done.

Go to Settings - Update & Security - View update history, collapse all
sections (to get them out of the way), expand the Driver Updates
section. Anything listed there that is recent, like just before when
you encountered the network "error" message?


*_Did you upgrade to 2004?_*

You did not mention which version/build of Windows 10 that you have, or
which edition (Home, Starter, Pro, Enterprise, etc). Did you recently
update to the 2004 feature update of Windows 10? It had issues with
networking depending on the hardware (which likely meant there were
issues with some versions of the hardware drivers). Some issues have
been resolved but some are still in "investigating" status. Issues were
known before the release of 2004, some were found later, some got fixed
by later updates, and some are still unresolved.

https://www.google.com/search?q=wind...tworking+issue
and Microsoft's own:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...indows-10-2004

After the install of a feature update, you have 10 days to revert back
to the prior build: settings - update & security, check if revert is
still available. After that, you must rely on you image backups to
restore back to the prior state of the OS. There is little or no
bang-for-the-buck in the 2004 build hence no need to install it unless,
of course, you want to work on their still unresolved issues. Whether
you hit the 2004 depends on your software and hardware configuration.
For me, "What's New" in 2004 is trivial.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...0-version-2004

Hello: I'm not buying a webcam or fingerprint reader to make use of the
new recognition features, and I already made my "PIN" look like a
password login, so it's not just a series of numbers; see:
https://www.groovypost.com/howto/cre...al-characters/
Defender features: Some not available in Home edition, and I don't use
their Chromium Edge web browser except as a backup (which means very
rarely used).
SetupDiag: Might be useful, but I don't let Microsoft update my drivers
(see below) which is the most likely "all of sudden" problems.
Autopilot: Don't use Azure content servers.
Endpoint Manager: I only manage my home PCs, not on a domain.
Deployment Kit: Yeah, more domain management of workstations.
Delivery Optimization: Disabled in my PCs.
Business-grade updates: Don't need them on my personal PCs.
Networking: I'm not buying new networking hardware, TVs, smartphones,
etc, if available, just to support wifi-6 and wpa3.
TEAP: Don't need it.
Sandbox: If I wanted it, I'd use Virtualbox instead of Hypervisor.
Also, available only Pro and Enterprise editions, not on Home edition.
Linux subsystem: Rather than the crippled shell-only (no GUI/desktop)
version from Microsoft, and if I needed a Linux box, I'd multi-boot on
the same box (which means Secure Boot must be disabled in UEFI) or
just use a separate host to have a fully featured version of Linux.
Virtual desktop: Already have it, but never used it. If I wanted
virtual desktops, I'd go with the more robust Dexpot (free).
Edge: Don't care how they "improve" it. Don't use it.
App restart: If I want to keep apps loaded, I leave Windows running (my
desktops runs 24x7). I don't want to waste more time on a later
startup of Windows since most times I don't want to wait for all those
apps opened in a prior session of Windows from loading in the next
session of Windows. Similarly for my web browser: I do NOT allow them
to load a prior web session on a later load of the web browser, even
if the web browser crashed before.
Cortana: Disabled on my computers.
Windows Search: I configured it to NOT allow web searches, just search
on the same PC: configured for Classic search, not Enhanced search
which includes web searching. If I want web searches, I'll use a web
browser, plus I'm not keen on using Microsoft's Bing (I use Startpage
which does anonymous searches at Google).
Bluetooth pairing (via notifications): Yeah, an improvement. I don't
much use Bluetooth. So far, only use dynamic locking to lock (via
lockscreen) my desktop PC when I walk away with my paired smartphone.
Most of my Bluetoothing is in my car (smartphone to head unit).
Reset this PC: Added a "cloud download" feature. Allows [re]install
from cloud instead of having to hunt for install media (or create it).
Usefulness depends on your download bandwidth. Likely requires a
Microsoft account. I've yet to need a reinstall of the OS. Instead I
use my image backups: besides those that are daily to capture changes,
I saved one right after installing the OS, and another after apply all
updates then current for it.
Task Manager: Improvements are minimal. Shows GPU temperature (but so
do video card maker tools and other free 3rd party tools), but still
no drive temperatures. Added the disk type in Performance tab, but
doesn't show drive name where you could, for example, add "HDD",
"SSD", "CD", "DVD", "BD", "USBHD", "USBSD", and other drive type
identifiers to the drive names.
DX12 improvements: Only of importance to game authors.
Specialized displays: Only for Pro and Enterprise workstations.
Desktop analytics: Only for company-managed workstations.

Most users upgrade to 2004 not because it offers them anything they will
actually use, but simply because they've been well-trained into the
"newer is better mantra". I'll wait until Microsoft provides better
coverage of the "investigating" issues, or forces me to install 2004 to
get the 2009 or 2103 feature updates /if/ they have any bang-for-the-
buck changes.
  #7  
Old August 24th 20, 12:03 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Netwrok quirk

pjp wrote:
Network quirk ...

Everytime I start one of my Win10 pro pc's (I5, 8gb Ram) and try to
access the ethernet I get an error and option to run troubleshooter.
Troubleshooter runs and comes back stating nothing it can find is any
poblem etc. I close dialog box and network works fine.

Any clue what the troubleshooter might be doing without even knowing it?


ipconfig /release \
ipconfig /flushdns \___ If used, would be in response to symptoms
ipconfig /renew / Use ipconfig and see if you need lease help

netsh int ip reset \____ What the troubleshooter is gratuitously doing
netsh winsock reset /

The network stack also tries to reach a specific Microsoft
server, one which is used only for actuating the network icon.
The network is not "up", unless http:// somewhere works.

Paul
  #8  
Old August 24th 20, 01:14 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 186
Default Netwrok quirk

On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 19:03:30 -0400, Paul wrote:

Everytime I start one of my Win10 pro pc's (I5, 8gb Ram) and try to
access the ethernet I get an error and option to run troubleshooter.
Troubleshooter runs and comes back stating nothing it can find is any
poblem etc. I close dialog box and network works fine.

Any clue what the troubleshooter might be doing without even knowing it?


ipconfig /release \
ipconfig /flushdns \___ If used, would be in response to symptoms
ipconfig /renew / Use ipconfig and see if you need lease help

netsh int ip reset \____ What the troubleshooter is gratuitously doing
netsh winsock reset /

The network stack also tries to reach a specific Microsoft
server, one which is used only for actuating the network icon.
The network is not "up", unless http:// somewhere works.


Mainly I suggest the OP check his routing table.

As Paul noted, to do that, the OP needs to run some before/after tests.
I run them every once in a while myself, to snapshot a system.

For example, Paul suggested ipconfig tests.
o Here are s'more tests the OP can run to snapshot the network.

These are from my log files so your paths will vary:
o ipconfig C:\data\sys\ipconfig\20200815ipconfig.txt
o netsh int ip show route C:\data\sys\route\20200815netsh_int_ip_show_route. txt
o route print c:\data\sys\route\20200815routeprt.txt
o net start c:\data\sys\service\20200815net_start.txt
o services.msc action export list c:\data\sys\service\20200815services_msc.txt

As an aside, I boot off the network, where that's done simply by
not defining a gateway in Windows, so that Windows comes up
without connecting to your home router.

To connect to the router, I just manually run:
Win+R gw

Which runs this script as shown below.

1. Obtain the LiquidVPN network kill-switch batch file:
https://www.liquidvpn.com/vpn-kill-switches/

The batch text file can be downloaded with this URL:
https://my.liquidvpn.com/dl.php?type=d&id=49
Name: LiquidVPN-Kill-Switch.bat
Size: 2747 bytes (2 KiB)
SHA256: 933B7BD76EECB04D57A1A55E972C868D0460EB21021C16ED0A BC0B02EBD532A7

2. Rename the gateway file gw.bat & put into your system directory, e.g.,
c:\data\sys\batch\gw.bat

You may need to manually edit the default gatway from 192.168.0.1
to whatever yours is (e.g., 192.168.1.1, or whatever).

3. Remove UAC by setting up a scheduled task, shortcut, & app paths:
Win+R taskschd.msc /s Task Scheduler Library RMB Create Task
Name = Gateway Task
Description = Control the network gateway without UAC popups
[x]Run with highest privileges == this is what bypasses the UAC prompt
Actions New Start a program c:\data\sys\batch\gw.bat
Arguments = blank
Start in = blank
[OK][OK][File Exit]

Test that your task now runs without those annoying UAC popups:
Win+R C:\Windows\System32\schtasks.exe /run /TN "Gateway Task"

To use an easily remembered command, just create a shortcut with a simple name:
Name = C:\data\sys\apppath\link\gw.lnk
TARGET = C:\Windows\System32\schtasks.exe /run /TN "Gateway Task"
Startin = %windir%\system32

To simplify execution, point to that shortcut with any desired AppPaths key:
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths
New Key = gw.exe (note this is just a keyword; the gw.exe doesn't exist!)
default = c:\data\sys\batch\gw.bat

Now, to control the network gateway without the UAC popups, just type:
Win+R gw
--
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