Is erasure of the HDD by an electromagnetic pulse generator death of the HDD?

An employee working on a secure site with one of our laptops didn't need it
any more. The site IT folks used an electromagnetic pulse generator to wipe
the hard drive while it was out of the laptop, reinstalled it then returned
the laptop to us. Now the laptop says there is no hard drive. Is the drive
permanently dead - or can it be "found"/formatted/etc using any kind of
recovery utility so that the laptop can be reused without having to buy a
new drive?

Mich

M Skabialka wrote:
An employee working on a secure site with one of our laptops didn't need it
any more. The site IT folks used an electromagnetic pulse generator to wipe
the hard drive while it was out of the laptop, reinstalled it then returned
the laptop to us. Now the laptop says there is no hard drive. Is the drive
permanently dead - or can it be "found"/formatted/etc using any kind of
recovery utility so that the laptop can be reused without having to buy a
new drive?

Mich

I would venture to say that the entire HD is dead. EMP induces
currents in circuits and basically can have the same effect on chips
as static electricity.

Even if the support circuitry wasn't fried, the servo-tracks for head
positioning were possibly erased which will effectively kill the
drive as well.

Carl

M Skabialka wrote:
An employee working on a secure site with one of our laptops didn't need it
any more. The site IT folks used an electromagnetic pulse generator to wipe
the hard drive while it was out of the laptop, reinstalled it then returned
the laptop to us. Now the laptop says there is no hard drive. Is the drive
permanently dead - or can it be "found"/formatted/etc using any kind of
recovery utility so that the laptop can be reused without having to buy a
new drive?

Mich

I would venture to say that the entire HD is dead. EMP induces
currents in circuits and basically can have the same effect on chips
as static electricity.

Even if the support circuitry wasn't fried, the servo-tracks for head
positioning were possibly erased which will effectively kill the
drive as well.

Carl

"M Skabialka" wrote in message

An employee working on a secure site with one of our laptops didn't need
it any more. The site IT folks used an electromagnetic pulse generator
to wipe the hard drive while it was out of the laptop, reinstalled it
then returned the laptop to us. Now the laptop says there is no hard
drive. Is the drive permanently dead - or can it be
"found"/formatted/etc using any kind of recovery utility so that the
laptop can be reused without having to buy a new drive?

Mich

If the electromagnetic field was strong enough when they degaussed the drive
it could/would render the drive useless. Degaussing of hard drives erases all
data, formatting and the factory installed magnetic servo tracks located on the
hard disc platters.

See section 3 and 3.1:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degaussing

--

Brian A. Sesko
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://members.shaw.ca/dts-l/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

"M Skabialka" wrote in message

An employee working on a secure site with one of our laptops didn't need
it any more. The site IT folks used an electromagnetic pulse generator
to wipe the hard drive while it was out of the laptop, reinstalled it
then returned the laptop to us. Now the laptop says there is no hard
drive. Is the drive permanently dead - or can it be
"found"/formatted/etc using any kind of recovery utility so that the
laptop can be reused without having to buy a new drive?

Mich

If the electromagnetic field was strong enough when they degaussed the drive
it could/would render the drive useless. Degaussing of hard drives erases all
data, formatting and the factory installed magnetic servo tracks located on the
hard disc platters.

See section 3 and 3.1:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degaussing

--

Brian A. Sesko
Conflicts start where information lacks.
http://basconotw.mvps.org/

Suggested posting do's/don'ts: http://members.shaw.ca/dts-l/goodpost.htm
How to ask a question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

M Skabialka wrote:
An employee working on a secure site with one of our laptops didn't need it
any more. The site IT folks used an electromagnetic pulse generator to wipe
the hard drive while it was out of the laptop, reinstalled it then returned
the laptop to us. Now the laptop says there is no hard drive. Is the drive
permanently dead - or can it be "found"/formatted/etc using any kind of
recovery utility so that the laptop can be reused without having to buy a
new drive?

Mich


They probably used a degaussing coil.

An EMP is intended to damage electronics, and is something
different than a degaussing coil. If you were going to use EMP,
you might as well use a sledge hammer. And I don't think an EMP
would erase the platter - placing the platter in another disk
drive would make it recoverable. This would be the wrong tool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

The ATA command set, has a built-in erasure command.
There is a "fire and forget" capability for the
erasure command. As I understand it (haven't tested this
myself), when the erase command bit is set, the drive will
not respond to external stimulus, until the erase
sequence is completed. If this is what has been used,
I would leave the drive powered for a couple hours,
to allow time for the erase command to complete. Then,
try powering off the laptop, rebooting, then check the
BIOS to see if the drive is detected. It isn't supposed
to respond and give its ID, until the erasure sequence
completes.

http://cmrr.ucsd.edu/people/Hughes/SecureErase.shtml

If it has been physically damaged, then it is finished. The
degaussing coil could apply mechanical force to any metals
which have a magnetic component. It could be the level of
vibration in the unit that damaged it, or the head assembly
could have been torn off. And the thing is, degaussing
doesn't guarantee erasure. They should at least have run
DBAN first, or used the secure erase command (letting
it run to completion), before deciding to use the degaussing
coil. They should have just smashed the drive instead, as
bending the platter even a little bit, is supposed to be
sufficient to prevent recovery. But the thing is, something
should be done to remove the original information first,
as it is the combination of only leaving a fringing field
to work with, plus making it difficult to run recovery
equipment (bending, chipping, scratching etc), that makes
the recovery difficult. If you leave the original data
on the platter, with a nice plump field to work with,
then that is making it easier to do the recovery. So
erasure should be one step, before using other means.
Any good procedure (intended to prevent the disk from
being reused) should be a two step process. First
erasure, followed by destruction.

Paul

M Skabialka wrote:
An employee working on a secure site with one of our laptops didn't need it
any more. The site IT folks used an electromagnetic pulse generator to wipe
the hard drive while it was out of the laptop, reinstalled it then returned
the laptop to us. Now the laptop says there is no hard drive. Is the drive
permanently dead - or can it be "found"/formatted/etc using any kind of
recovery utility so that the laptop can be reused without having to buy a
new drive?

Mich


They probably used a degaussing coil.

An EMP is intended to damage electronics, and is something
different than a degaussing coil. If you were going to use EMP,
you might as well use a sledge hammer. And I don't think an EMP
would erase the platter - placing the platter in another disk
drive would make it recoverable. This would be the wrong tool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

The ATA command set, has a built-in erasure command.
There is a "fire and forget" capability for the
erasure command. As I understand it (haven't tested this
myself), when the erase command bit is set, the drive will
not respond to external stimulus, until the erase
sequence is completed. If this is what has been used,
I would leave the drive powered for a couple hours,
to allow time for the erase command to complete. Then,
try powering off the laptop, rebooting, then check the
BIOS to see if the drive is detected. It isn't supposed
to respond and give its ID, until the erasure sequence
completes.

http://cmrr.ucsd.edu/people/Hughes/SecureErase.shtml

If it has been physically damaged, then it is finished. The
degaussing coil could apply mechanical force to any metals
which have a magnetic component. It could be the level of
vibration in the unit that damaged it, or the head assembly
could have been torn off. And the thing is, degaussing
doesn't guarantee erasure. They should at least have run
DBAN first, or used the secure erase command (letting
it run to completion), before deciding to use the degaussing
coil. They should have just smashed the drive instead, as
bending the platter even a little bit, is supposed to be
sufficient to prevent recovery. But the thing is, something
should be done to remove the original information first,
as it is the combination of only leaving a fringing field
to work with, plus making it difficult to run recovery
equipment (bending, chipping, scratching etc), that makes
the recovery difficult. If you leave the original data
on the platter, with a nice plump field to work with,
then that is making it easier to do the recovery. So
erasure should be one step, before using other means.
Any good procedure (intended to prevent the disk from
being reused) should be a two step process. First
erasure, followed by destruction.

Paul

"M Skabialka" wrote in message
...
An employee working on a secure site with one of our laptops didn't need
it any more. The site IT folks used an electromagnetic pulse generator to
wipe the hard drive while it was out of the laptop, reinstalled it then
returned the laptop to us. Now the laptop says there is no hard drive.
Is the drive permanently dead - or can it be "found"/formatted/etc using
any kind of recovery utility so that the laptop can be reused without
having to buy a new drive?


I don't think you meant an EMP generator. These are very large and rather
specialist pieces of kit. There are only 3 that I know of in the UK.

I think you meant a very powerful degausser. If successful then it would
render the disc useless as it would remove the low level formatting from the
disc including the firmware that the drive itself uses (this is stored on
the disc - you can hear it load when you first power up the disc), and the
information on the platters that that firmware uses to establish where the
heads are.

"M Skabialka" wrote in message
...
An employee working on a secure site with one of our laptops didn't need
it any more. The site IT folks used an electromagnetic pulse generator to
wipe the hard drive while it was out of the laptop, reinstalled it then
returned the laptop to us. Now the laptop says there is no hard drive.
Is the drive permanently dead - or can it be "found"/formatted/etc using
any kind of recovery utility so that the laptop can be reused without
having to buy a new drive?


I don't think you meant an EMP generator. These are very large and rather
specialist pieces of kit. There are only 3 that I know of in the UK.

I think you meant a very powerful degausser. If successful then it would
render the disc useless as it would remove the low level formatting from the
disc including the firmware that the drive itself uses (this is stored on
the disc - you can hear it load when you first power up the disc), and the
information on the platters that that firmware uses to establish where the
heads are.

Firmware is exactly as it implies - code that is held within a chip - not on
the hard drive.

But an emp pulse would likely destroy this also.

--

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience & Security


"M.I.5¾" wrote in message
...

"M Skabialka" wrote in message
...
An employee working on a secure site with one of our laptops didn't need
it any more. The site IT folks used an electromagnetic pulse generator
to wipe the hard drive while it was out of the laptop, reinstalled it
then returned the laptop to us. Now the laptop says there is no hard
drive. Is the drive permanently dead - or can it be "found"/formatted/etc
using any kind of recovery utility so that the laptop can be reused
without having to buy a new drive?


I don't think you meant an EMP generator. These are very large and rather
specialist pieces of kit. There are only 3 that I know of in the UK.

I think you meant a very powerful degausser. If successful then it would
render the disc useless as it would remove the low level formatting from
the disc including the firmware that the drive itself uses (this is stored
on the disc - you can hear it load when you first power up the disc), and
the information on the platters that that firmware uses to establish where
the heads are.

Firmware is exactly as it implies - code that is held within a chip - not on
the hard drive.

But an emp pulse would likely destroy this also.

--

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience & Security


"M.I.5¾" wrote in message
...

"M Skabialka" wrote in message
...
An employee working on a secure site with one of our laptops didn't need
it any more. The site IT folks used an electromagnetic pulse generator
to wipe the hard drive while it was out of the laptop, reinstalled it
then returned the laptop to us. Now the laptop says there is no hard
drive. Is the drive permanently dead - or can it be "found"/formatted/etc
using any kind of recovery utility so that the laptop can be reused
without having to buy a new drive?


I don't think you meant an EMP generator. These are very large and rather
specialist pieces of kit. There are only 3 that I know of in the UK.

I think you meant a very powerful degausser. If successful then it would
render the disc useless as it would remove the low level formatting from
the disc including the firmware that the drive itself uses (this is stored
on the disc - you can hear it load when you first power up the disc), and
the information on the platters that that firmware uses to establish where
the heads are.

"M Skabialka" wrote in message
...
An employee working on a secure site with one of our laptops didn't need
it any more. The site IT folks used an electromagnetic pulse generator to
wipe the hard drive while it was out of the laptop, reinstalled it then
returned the laptop to us. Now the laptop says there is no hard drive.
Is the drive permanently dead - or can it be "found"/formatted/etc using
any kind of recovery utility so that the laptop can be reused without
having to buy a new drive?

Mich

Test the drive with another machine or USB enclosure.
If the drive won't work, blame these "IT folks".
Anyway, laptop disks are cheap and widely available these days, so finding a
replacement should not be a problem by itself.

--pa

"M Skabialka" wrote in message
...
An employee working on a secure site with one of our laptops didn't need
it any more. The site IT folks used an electromagnetic pulse generator to
wipe the hard drive while it was out of the laptop, reinstalled it then
returned the laptop to us. Now the laptop says there is no hard drive.
Is the drive permanently dead - or can it be "found"/formatted/etc using
any kind of recovery utility so that the laptop can be reused without
having to buy a new drive?

Mich

Test the drive with another machine or USB enclosure.
If the drive won't work, blame these "IT folks".
Anyway, laptop disks are cheap and widely available these days, so finding a
replacement should not be a problem by itself.

--pa

"Richard Urban" wrote in message
...
Firmware is exactly as it implies - code that is held within a chip - not
on the hard drive.


If you want to be pedantic.

"Richard Urban" wrote in message
...
Firmware is exactly as it implies - code that is held within a chip - not
on the hard drive.


If you want to be pedantic.