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I'd like to boot Windows from an external drive.



 
 
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  #31  
Old July 12th 18, 05:29 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
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Posts: 1,356
Default I'd like to boot Windows from an external drive.

On 2018-07-12 16:56, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2018-07-11 15:55, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2018-07-11 04:24, Paul wrote:
[...]
Windows To Go is it.

Can't.

The procedure is designed to move existing and booting Windows on an
internal disk to another disk outside. I do not have two disks, I only
have one. And it doesn't boot, so I can not run anything on it. Can't
install any software, unless using some rescue USB stick.

I removed the disk from inside and connected it outside.

If you're willing to - temporarily - swap the disks back, or you can
temporarily use some other Windows system, you could download the
Windows 10 software and make bootable USB memory-stick or DVD Windows 10
Install media.

'Download Windows 10'
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10


Yes, I can download on another computer an ISO bootable image to install
windows. I did that recently to install a virtual machine on anoter
computer.

What do you suggest, that I install Windows from scratch on another
external disk instead of using the original disk that was inside the laptop?


If you have another external disk (or buy one, they're quite cheap
these days), then it's preferred to install Windows from scratch on that
drive.


It seems that way.


However I got the impression that you don't particulary value what's
on the original disk that was inside the laptop. If that is true, you
could install Windows from scratch on the original disk.


On the contrary, I wanted to preserve it in case I need to request
warranty coverage.

OTOH, I see that in the meantime you have some more luck at least
getting some messages from the original disk, so it's probably best not
to overwrite it yet.


You can see on another post that I found that Windows will not boot on
this machine USB3, because apparently it is reset at one point. USB2
does "boot", but asks for recovery, which fails (hard disk not found).


--
Cheers, Carlos.
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  #32  
Old July 12th 18, 06:06 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default I'd like to boot Windows from an external drive.

In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote:



However I got the impression that you don't particulary value what's
on the original disk that was inside the laptop. If that is true, you
could install Windows from scratch on the original disk.


On the contrary, I wanted to preserve it in case I need to request
warranty coverage.


then there's no need to boot from it or use it at all.

in the event of a warranty repair, swap it back and don't break
anything in the process. meanwhile, put another drive in the enclosure
and use it however you wish.
  #33  
Old July 12th 18, 06:24 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ken Blake[_5_]
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Posts: 2,221
Default I'd like to boot Windows from an external drive.

On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 11:45:57 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
wrote:

This laptop is tiny, no optical drive. I intend it for travelling, not
serious use, so weight and size are important. Power is secondary ;-)




I used to use a laptop for traveling, then I replaced it with an even
smaller laptop (a "netbook").

But now I use an even smaller, lighter computer for traveling: an
Android phone.
  #34  
Old July 12th 18, 08:12 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Default I'd like to boot Windows from an external drive.

Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2018-07-12 05:52, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2018-07-12 05:29, GlowingBlueMist wrote:



Have you tried plugging the USB drive into a USB2 port? The USB3 drive
adapters normally will work on a USB2 port, just a little slower.

That's an idea. I'll try that, thanks.


You were absolutely right! It tries to boot, and I get to an offer of
repair options. I choose to try boot Win 10, says preparing automatic
repair, but after a minute goes back to the same place:

continue (booting W10) power off

use recovery media

solve problems.

After two cycles, I selected the later.
It fails to diagnose.
It writes a log somewhere which I'll have to read from somewhere else,
and offers "advanced" or power off. Advanced goes back to square one.

Well, it is a fair advance, yes.

The log file is "\Windows\System32\LogFiles\Srt\SrtTrail.txt". It seems
to logs some tests with error code 0x0, and finally says "hard disk not
found".

Seems that Windows is hardcoded to use the internal disk, does not allow
"movement". If that is so, I would have to install it fresh on another
external enclosure.

I'll see tomorrow, I have to sleep ;-)


I got mine working :-)

But, I cheated.

So the idea was, I would start with the crummy "official"
method first, just to prove it would actually work.

For starting materials, I grabbed an unlicensed VM from here.
This is a ~4GB download, so don't download onto a FAT32 volume.
I happened to notice in the past, that the MSEdge machine
is based on Win10 Enterprise. As otherwise, I wouldn't
be able to download an Enterprise installer disc.

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-u...dge/tools/vms/

I got the "MSEdge on Win10 (x64)" machine.

When unpacking in VirtualBox, it complained about no end
of file mark or some such. I did a little further unpacking
with 7ZIP, and fed the component parts of the .ova into
VirtualBox, and ended up with a 9GB .vmdk or so. Whatever the
error was telling me, I managed to bypass it.

In VirtualBox, you can use the USB filter to connect
external USB devices to a VM. I put a SATA SSD on a USB3 to SATA
adapter, and plugged that into a USB3 port on my Test Machine.

Now, in VirtualBox, I had the 9GB C: drive, and I created
two more virtual disks. I made a virtual disk for the
sole purpose of "temporary cloning" of the C: drive.

I wanted to run DISM while the OS was running, and cloning C:
meant I didn't need to figure out how to use VSS.

I installed Macrium Reflect (just the application part),
and cloned C: to make a second OS which is F: . This
was so I could do the following. The output is
stored in a third virtual disk, not that this
is important or anything.

1) Clone C: to make an identical F:

2) In an Administrator Command Prompt

# E: contains the output
# F: is a clone of C: , made with Macrium Reflect Free

# Create E:\SCRATCH first...
# And output is on E: for later.

# Windows isn't case sensitive.

dism /capture-image /imagefile:E:\install.wim /capturedir:F:\
/ScratchDir:E:\Scratch /name:"AnyName" /compress:maximum /checkintegrity /verify /bootable

3) Now that I have an install.wim, I go to Control Panels.

control.exe

I select the "Windows To Go" control panel.

It first prompts for a device. I plugged a 32GB USB3 stick (100MB/sec),
and it was rejected as "unworthy". I plugged in the USB3 to SATA
cable and an Intel SSD, and it was "begrudgingly accepted". Fine.

Next, it asks for an install.wim . I feed it the
highly compress 6GB E:\install.wim . And go out
to the kitchen and make a three course meal.

4) I shut down the VM, and save off any virtual disks
for later. Then shut down the PC and remove the hard
drive. Now the Test Machine only has the USB adapter
with Intel SATA SSD plugged in.

And... it boots.

First, you see the banner, which warns you you're on a
USB OS. The banner blocks, so I can't use snippingtool
to take a picture, and have to use a digital camera instead.

https://s33.postimg.cc/tm4hh0k7j/WTG_Banner.gif

This shows my "storage".

https://s33.postimg.cc/bgmxpdfxr/win...enterprise.gif

For whatever reason, the process seems to want an install.wim,
which you can make from an existing C: . If you clone the C:
and make an identical F: , it will even clone the thing
while you have the comfort of a GUI. However, in your
current situation, you'll need to boot a Windows Installer DVD
and use the Command Prompt window to issue the DISM command
and convert the (quiescent) C: into an install.wim . That way,
you may be able to cook up a way to do the whole thing with
one disk.

In Windows 10, you can mount both .vhd files and .iso files.
If you have just one hard drive, you can mount a .vhd to
make a second hard drive, and save your output (or whatever)
in it. At least, when the OS is running. The same feature
might not work in WinPE Command Prompt type environment.

It's possible that freebie tool will work with an install.wim too.

Without wasting too much time on it, 7ZIP has the ability
to probe a .wim file and show the files inside. This will
allow you to see whether any personal files were captured,
or whether the Program Files structure got captured. For
some reason, mine was 6GB (instead of 4GB) and I'll have
to dig up the container now, and see what's in that WIM.
I suppose I could just as easily boot my WTG again,
and look in there... :-)

OK, I checked, and both the WTG volume, as well as
the install.wim, have evidence that personal information
is being collected and transferred as well as OS stuff.
So it does look like the dism "capture-image" method
makes great starting materials.

https://s33.postimg.cc/3o0vb2mgv/WTG...onal_stuff.gif

That doesn't prove everything is preserved, but
it's a start.

Once you've assembled an install.wim, you can go shopping
for a WTG Wizard solution. For example, even using a Linux
VirtualBox and the Microsoft Enterprise VM, I don't
see a reason right now why you couldn't feed your
install.wim to that.

Paul
  #35  
Old July 12th 18, 08:12 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
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Posts: 1,356
Default I'd like to boot Windows from an external drive.

On 2018-07-12 19:06, nospam wrote:
In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote:



However I got the impression that you don't particulary value what's
on the original disk that was inside the laptop. If that is true, you
could install Windows from scratch on the original disk.


On the contrary, I wanted to preserve it in case I need to request
warranty coverage.


then there's no need to boot from it or use it at all.


But no harm in making use of it.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #36  
Old July 12th 18, 08:21 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ant[_2_]
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Posts: 554
Default I'd like to boot Windows from an external drive.

Ken Blake wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 11:45:57 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
wrote:


This laptop is tiny, no optical drive. I intend it for travelling, not
serious use, so weight and size are important. Power is secondary ;-)


I used to use a laptop for traveling, then I replaced it with an even
smaller laptop (a "netbook").


I prefer netbooks over tablets because of their clicky keyboards. I
never liked touch screens.


But now I use an even smaller, lighter computer for traveling: an
Android phone.


Too small. Haha.
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  #37  
Old July 12th 18, 08:39 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default I'd like to boot Windows from an external drive.

In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote:

However I got the impression that you don't particulary value what's
on the original disk that was inside the laptop. If that is true, you
could install Windows from scratch on the original disk.

On the contrary, I wanted to preserve it in case I need to request
warranty coverage.


then there's no need to boot from it or use it at all.


But no harm in making use of it.


use it all you want. nothing is preventing you from using the drive in
an external enclosure.

you just can't boot from it with the system currently on it, at least
not without a *lot* of effort, because windows makes that *very*
difficult for no good reason.

if you want to preserve it for warranty purposes, then the easiest
solution is to *not* use it, however, if you want to use it, then use
it. the warranty is not voided if you erase the original system.
  #39  
Old July 12th 18, 11:55 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Char Jackson
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Posts: 10,449
Default I'd like to boot Windows from an external drive.

On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 15:12:40 -0400, Paul wrote:

I got mine working :-)

But, I cheated.

So the idea was, I would start with the crummy "official"
method first, just to prove it would actually work.

For starting materials, I grabbed an unlicensed VM from here.
This is a ~4GB download, so don't download onto a FAT32 volume.
I happened to notice in the past, that the MSEdge machine
is based on Win10 Enterprise. As otherwise, I wouldn't
be able to download an Enterprise installer disc.


Heidoc has multiple download links for Win10 Enterprise. I don't think
I've tried them, so I can't vouch for what you get. Check the Windows 10
section and the Insider Preview Section for the download links.

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-u...dge/tools/vms/

I got the "MSEdge on Win10 (x64)" machine.


That works, too.

  #40  
Old July 13th 18, 06:35 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
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Posts: 1,356
Default I'd like to boot Windows from an external drive.

On 2018-07-12 21:12, Paul wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:



I got mine working :-)


I saved this post and will try when time and hardware permits, thanks :-)


Does it has to be the enterprise version?


--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #41  
Old July 14th 18, 03:24 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default I'd like to boot Windows from an external drive.

Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2018-07-12 21:12, Paul wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:


I got mine working :-)


I saved this post and will try when time and hardware permits, thanks :-)


Does it has to be the enterprise version?


My working theory at the moment, is we can use the
Enterprise VM as an "engine" and capitalize on the
presence of the Windows To Go control panel.

I haven't tested this yet, but the idea would
be, we capture a "regular" OS C: drive into
an install.wim using the DISM command, then
feed that to the Windows-To-Go armed Enterprise VM.

With some cunning and craft, it may be possible
to convince the WTG Wizard to process an
ordinary OS.

I think you could do it on just one disk drive.
Using VM containers for storage. You could even
boot Linux and use VirtualBox there to run the
Enterprise Guest. That leaves running dism from
the Command Prompt on a Windows 10 installer disc.
(You can use the Troubleshooting section to reach
a Command Prompt.)

My theory at the moment is, you should be able
to do this experiment with Linux inside the laptop
and the source drive being outside the machine.

Steps:

1) Make an install.wim from the disk outside the machine.
Boot Win10 DVD and use command prompt, being careful
to use the appropriate drive letters while making
DISM do the work.

2) Run the Enterprise VM and make the new install.wim
available to it. Now, the disk outside the machine is
USB connected, and is the target of the output of WTG.

The tricky parts:

1) When WTG Wizard runs, is it going to "reject" the
drive outside the machine as a target ? It didn't
like my 32GB USB3 stick that runs at 100MB/sec.
And I thought that thing would be "easy". It
did accept an Intel SATA SSD on a USB3 converter.

2) Will WTG Wizard process a Win10 Home or Win10 Pro image ?
Dunno.

So there are still some details to be worked.

Paul

  #42  
Old July 14th 18, 03:53 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default I'd like to boot Windows from an external drive.

Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2018-07-12 21:12, Paul wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:


I got mine working :-)


I saved this post and will try when time and hardware permits, thanks :-)


Does it has to be the enterprise version?



You can build up a nice environment for yourself
with VirtualBox. For example, I could put a .vhd
file on my RAMdisk, and use it via the "USB Controller"
trick in the Storage section. But VirtualBox is
a bottleneck on I/O, so there's no guarantee on
what the speed will be. I have sufficient RAM
on the computer, that quite often all the
materials used are sitting in RAM.

https://s33.postimg.cc/60a8uib7z/add...irtual_Box.gif

On Linux, you could boot a LiveCD and half your
RAM would be available as a TMPFS. Which from a
performance perspective, would be in the same
class as my Windows RAMDisk.

What I can't predict at the moment, is how much
WTG will "tolerate" when doing these experiments.
It wouldn't take Microsoft much effort to observe
everything I'm doing in a setup like this. Virtual
Machines are absolutely no defense against anything.
They're just "convenience" items, rather than
"belt and suspenders". I have commercial products
here, that won't install in a VM because they know
it's a VM. You can't really hide what you're doing.
It depends on how "generous" Microsoft wants to
be, as to how easy this experiment will be.

Paul
  #43  
Old July 16th 18, 09:10 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default I'd like to boot Windows from an external drive.

Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2018-07-12 21:12, Paul wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:


I got mine working :-)


I saved this post and will try when time and hardware permits, thanks :-)


Does it has to be the enterprise version?


OK, I did some more testing.

The Windows To Go control panel (wizard) is available in
both Enterprise and Pro (I didn't test Home). In both cases,
when I tested, it insisted the OS it was willing to install
should be an Enterprise SKU. It's pretty weird for them to
"waste" a control panel on the Pro version, for a function
where the user is unlikely to have the materials.

Let's pretend that's a dead end. I only tested the WTG
control panel, in the interest of "seeing something work".
I didn't really expect Microsoft to make it easy.

*******

You still need to do this.

To be able to do this with Windows 10 running...

dism /capture-image /imagefile:F:\install.wim /capturedir:G:\ /ScratchDir:F:\Scratch /name:"AnyName" /compress:maximum /checkintegrity /verify /bootable

F:\install.wim # output of the command (used with any WTG programs etc)
F:\Scratch # A wee directory that holds assets while they're getting compressed

G:\ # A copy of the OS partition. Quiescent.
# No files busy etc. No VSS needed.

The steps I used we

1) Backup C: using Macrium Reflect Free (uses VSS to handle busy file problem)

2) Use the Macrium menu item that converts .mrimg to .vhd container.
Note: Use the "Reset Disk ID" box when making the .vhd container/partition.
That prevents the attached VHD later from going "Offline" on you
and defeating the whole purpose of these steps!

3) In Disk Management, there is a menu at the top with "Attach VHD".
You can leave the partition read/write. I didn't test what
happens if you tick the "read only" box. The result should be a partition
with the same label ("Win10RLS") as C: . Mine happened to mount with the
next available letter which was G: . So C: and G: have the same contents,
except G: "has no busy files".

4) Run the DISM command.

dism /capture-image ... [as above]

5) Go back to Disk Management and detach the G: VHD in Disk Management.

The output of the above step is F:\install.wim.
F: is a partition next to my Win10 C: or thereabouts.

The DISM command is super-slow. It seemed to be compressing on
only one core. It didn't always do that. I've done stuff before
where it uses two or three cores.

My 27GB C: partition, becomes an 11GB install.wim .

*******

Now, grab a copy of WintoUSB 4.1. You'll be installing this
on the currently running C: .

https://www.easyuefi.com/wintousb/index.html

Wintousb elevates to Admin level (in order to write
to the physical layer of the USB storage device).

Of the three icons on the left, click the top one.
You'll be asked for an install.wim source folder.

Next, the tool will ask for your USB device.

Note - Windows Defender will stick a fork in Wintousb
at around the 75% mark (I/O deadlock). Disabling
Windows Defender before the run starts, will fix this
(but means you've violated every security rule in the
book). In powershell, as Administrator...

Set-MpPreference -DisableRealtimeMonitoring 1

As you would expect Windows Defender is never really
disabled. All that setting does is stop scanning ****.
If an application tries to "hook" something it should not,
the heuristics still work on Windows Defender. That's
why it caused an I/O deadlock.

Once Windows Defender was neutered a bit, the transfer
completed.

If you want, the DISM command could be modified to

/compress:none

While compression is slow, pulling files from install.wim
is slow too. So this doesn't guarantee a speedy conclusion
to either of the two steps.

It was a "whole lot of work" to get here. Part of the
excessive work, was my insistence on being able to make
an install.wim while the main OS was running. Running
the command against C: would also work, if using the
WinPE Command Prompt of the Win10 installer DVD.

Here is the running Win10 Pro, sitting on an external
USB to SATA adapter plus a SATA SSD plugged into it.

https://s33.postimg.cc/c6e1jw91b/wtg_win10_Pro.gif

Paul
  #44  
Old July 18th 18, 04:21 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default I'd like to boot Windows from an external drive.

Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2018-07-12 21:12, Paul wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:


I got mine working :-)


I saved this post and will try when time and hardware permits, thanks :-)


Does it has to be the enterprise version?


I discovered what was making my install.wim a little difficult
to make. It's the usual thing. I have a RAMDisk.img which is
stored as a sparse file (most of RAMDisk images are zeros,
and a sparse representation handles this nicely). And lots of
programs have no special handler for sparse, so they expand the
file to full size.

That's especially important in this case. I set the compression
to none, when making the install.wim (copy of a copy of the C: drive).
By deleting the RAMDisk.img file (it can easily be recreated),
the install.wim is just a bit smaller than the C: effectively
being imaged. I expect the process ignores things like
pagefile, but haven't checked with 7ZIP to see what
files are in there.

DISM has some error handling, but it also has lots of "I've
fallen asleep" failure cases that don't help. Looking in
dism.log doesn't always help.

dism /capture-image /imagefile:G:\install.wim /capturedir:H:\ /ScratchDir:G:\Scratch /name:"AnyName" /compress:none /checkintegrity /verify /bootable

The WinToUSB doesn't have a problem with that install.wim
and transfers it to the external USB storage no problem.
I think in this case, the image would have fit on my
32GB USB flash key, but it wouldn't be particularly
healthy for it (lots of unnecessary writes I could do
without). A conventional HDD hanging off a USB adapter
should give years of good service.

Paul
  #45  
Old July 18th 18, 08:40 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default I'd like to boot Windows from an external drive.

Paul wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2018-07-12 21:12, Paul wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:


I got mine working :-)


I saved this post and will try when time and hardware permits, thanks :-)


Does it has to be the enterprise version?



I found an article here (kind of a weird server for it to be
hosted), that describes the essence of the technique. The first
command is how you pack the install.wim .

https://social.technet.microsoft.com...p-by-step.aspx

dism /capture-image /imagefile:G:\install.wim /capturedir:H:\ /ScratchDir:G:\Scratch
/name:"AnyName" /compress:none /checkintegrity /verify /bootable

# ... various disk preparation steps, like having an NTFS target
# for the operation, not shown here.

dism /apply-image /imagefile:G:\install.wim /index:1 /applydir:W:\

In the case of the ones I've been making, they're not sysprepped. And,
the OS is booting on the same computer as before.

The implication is that the apply-image must be noticing the disk
is on a USB adapter, and doing something to allow it to boot
that way.

The OS seems to know it's WTG, and puts up that banner on the desktop
at startup. It starts up unlicensed. (Which doesn't make sense
particularly, since the hardware hash of the computer will be
exactly the same as before. The activation state survives quite
nicely normally, when Win10 is just cloned from disk to disk.)
The OS resolves the activation, at least if you visit the
Activation panel and "look at it". Within seconds, a call to:

slmgr /dlv

in an administrator command prompt, shows a licensed state,
instead of notification state. After a reboot or two, you
might notice that Device Manager is now fully populated
as driver issues get resolved automatically.

That doesn't really explain how it all works, but the fact
there's a recipe written in 2012 says the information has
been around for a while. And all that wintousb has to do,
is effectively make some DISM calls.

Paul
 




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